Pogba

[RUCK4444]

I am looking at what they bring to the team, maybe mentality wasn't the right word.

Pogba has been here how many years, no one knows his best position should tell you everything you need to know.

He's had more outbursts than spells of good form for United.

I would not lose any sleep if he leaves, it would at least put the end to the Pogba drama, all the crap about we haven't unlocked him.

It is the most flawed argument I have ever seen. We signed a prime Matic with no success, he must be the only world class player I know that needs a DM and LW to do dirty work for him. A player that needs 2 defensive players alongside him is not worth it.

Prime Matic?

Come off it. This is what get's me frustrated. We've made a complete half-arsed job of partnering him, we signed Matic when his legs were gone and played him alongside Fred or McTominay!! Neither of which are true DM's.

Stop pretending we've bent over backwards to fit him in. All we've done is play him next to players who are past it or not even DM's.

Also the 'stop the drama' nonsense is so overplayed. He's never once been an a disruptive influence, players and managers have nothing but good things to say about him.

It comes off like somebody who's missus has dumped them and they try to shrug it off like she wasn't all that anyway. He's an outstanding player, we see him regularly being the best player on the pitch for France, he's done it at Juve, no surprises then that he's not quite as good when playing in the most difficult league in the world next to old-man-Matic and McFred! Christ.

 

[romufc]

Prime Matic?

Come off it. This is what get's me frustrated. We've made a complete half-arsed job of partnering him, we signed Matic when his legs were gone and played him alongside Fred or McTominay!! Neither of which are true DM's.

Stop pretending we've bent over backwards to fit him in. All we've done is play him next to players who are past it or not even DM's.

Also the 'stop the drama' nonsense is so overplayed. He's never once been an a disruptive influence, players and managers have nothing but good things to say about him.

It comes off like somebody who's missus has dumped them and they try to shrug it off like she wasn't all that anyway. He's an outstanding player, we see him regularly being the best player on the pitch for France, he's done it at Juve, no surprises then that he's not quite as good when playing in the most difficult league in the world next to old-man-Matic and McFred! Christ.

Matic was 29 when we signed him from Chelsea, where he just won the league as well. So much for leg had gone.

I am not saying we bent backwards for him, nor should we.

Again, when have I said he has been disruptive in the dressing room? putting words in me?

Him / his agent coming out every 6 months saying he wants to leave, Pogba and Manutd is finished is not disruptive?

If that is nonsense, what you are saying is even worse, paying £80m and £290k wages and he cannot play with decent players?

Also we didnt play a DM? Matic is an out and out DM for someone whos legs are gone at 29 he played 49 PL games in 17/18 and around the same the year before for Chelsea.

I guess Pogba is approaching 29 so in your eyes his legs must be gone?

What did he do at Juve? win the league? Must be a special special player then? Juve won the league 6 consecutive leagues even without him.

Okay so here you are saying he plays well for France but saying Fred is crap, go have a look how well Fred is playing for Brazil right now.

 

[Borys]

Surely if he signed a new deal it would make him the highest paid second choice midfielder?

I know McTominay and Fred are decent players, but it seems a bit unfair that although Pogba is not good enough to play ahead of them, he's getting paid more. I mean, that might disrupt the dressing room.
I think we should sell him, just to avoid pissing off McFred.

 

[RUCK4444]

Matic was 29 when we signed him from Chelsea, where he just won the league as well. So much for leg had gone.

I am not saying we bent backwards for him, nor should we.

Again, when have I said he has been disruptive in the dressing room? putting words in me?

Him / his agent coming out every 6 months saying he wants to leave, Pogba and Manutd is finished is not disruptive?

If that is nonsense, what you are saying is even worse, paying £80m and £290k wages and he cannot play with decent players?

Also we didnt play a DM? Matic is an out and out DM for someone whos legs are gone at 29 he played 49 PL games in 17/18 and around the same the year before for Chelsea.

I guess Pogba is approaching 29 so in your eyes his legs must be gone?

What did he do at Juve? win the league? Must be a special special player then? Juve won the league 6 consecutive leagues even without him.

Okay so here you are saying he plays well for France but saying Fred is crap, go have a look how well Fred is playing for Brazil right now.

Age is loosely related to when a players 'legs go.' Matic had about three months of good football left in him for us when we bought him, we might have expected more, but that's what we got. Instead of buying a player with less miles on the clock we hoped Matic would bring us a couple of years, we got nowhere near that, he's done, no arguing that.

Interestingly though this initial period of good form from Matic also coincided with Paul playing very well for us. Who knew eh? Playing him alongside a functional actual DM would bring the best out in him like we see mostly for France.

Since then he's been pushed in alongside Fred or Scott, both relatively limited box to box midfielders. I refuse to accept that as acceptable and I refuse to expect to see the best of Pogba in that situation. All things considered, we knew what he needed to play well, McFred is not the solution.

Why we ignore the bolded now and expect him to be Kante alongside Fred or Scott and then blame him when he's not that player is beyond me.

So in summary, I don't think we've tried anywhere near as hard as many make out to accommodate him. If the Matic signing were a younger more consistent version of Matic I'm certain we would have seen a much better version of Pogba during his time here. I think Ole knows that and I think that's why were are trying our best to keep him.

 

[VidaRed]

I hope he leaves. I really can't stand him anymore. Sounds harsh, but I was never his biggest fan and I just feel we wouldn't be worse without him in the squad and with the likes of VdB getting more gametime...and I've had enough of his circus.

This.

Pogba couldn't be arsed about putting in a performance because he thinks he's too good for utd and the club should be building a squad around him and tolerating his whims and fancies.

 

[lsd]

Ok we didn't.

What age would you say players are in their prime then?

Players are different. Matic was in his prime I would say around 25 to 28 then after that he visibly started to slow down.

 

[He'sRaldo]

This.

Pogba couldn't be arsed about putting in a performance because he thinks he's too good for utd and the club should be building a squad around him and tolerating his whims and fancies.

Interesting.

How would you rate his past season?

 

[RedDevil@84]

Interesting.

How would you rate his past season?

Am I the only one who thinks that Pogba's last season is not something remarkable as some people are alluding to here? I mean there maybe an improvement, but didn't we see multiple people who improved in last season?
I am not so sure if we laid out the stats for McT, Fred and Pogba and compare last 2 seasons, that Pogba would come out as the outstanding winner.

 

[The Cat]

Am I the only one who thinks that Pogba's last season is not something remarkable as some people are alluding to here? I mean there maybe an improvement, but didn't we see multiple people who improved in last season?
I am not so sure if we laid out the stats for McT, Fred and Pogba and compare last 2 seasons, that Pogba would come out as the outstanding winner.

I never read everything into stats anyway.

Either Pogba doesn't suit us or we don't suit him - I am past caring now. He can go for 40m and be some other manager's problem now as far as I'm concerned.

I can't see him succeeding here if he signs a new contract anyway.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Am I the only one who thinks that Pogba's last season is not something remarkable as some people are alluding to here? I mean there maybe an improvement, but didn't we see multiple people who improved in last season?
I am not so sure if we laid out the stats for McT, Fred and Pogba and compare last 2 seasons, that Pogba would come out as the outstanding winner.

My point is his last season is the season where he seemed the most committed to running, tracking back, doing the dirty work, and playing wherever for the team, even starting from the bench.

So @VidaRed 's post is not how things actually went in reality.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I never read everything into stats anyway.

Either Pogba doesn't suit us or we don't suit him - I am past caring now. He can go for 40m and be some other manager's problem now as far as I'm concerned.

I can't see him succeeding here if he signs a new contract anyway.

That is pretty much what I think. I was just referring to this "look at last season from Pogba" thing which is brought up now and then by posters.

 

[izzydiggler]

Am I the only one who thinks that Pogba's last season is not something remarkable as some people are alluding to here? I mean there maybe an improvement, but didn't we see multiple people who improved in last season?
I am not so sure if we laid out the stats for McT, Fred and Pogba and compare last 2 seasons, that Pogba would come out as the outstanding winner.

I think it’s the only defence left for the Redcafe faction of his cult - that “the emperor is fully clothed” and if you can’t recognise the magnificence of Pogba it’s because you have an agenda or don’t understand the game like they do.

After watching him for 5 years the good, the bad and the ugly are in plain sight and I think most people probably are in agreement think at his best he’s great but it’s not often enough and there are several question marks around him.

 

[Hammondo]

Am I the only one who thinks that Pogba's last season is not something remarkable as some people are alluding to here? I mean there maybe an improvement, but didn't we see multiple people who improved in last season?
I am not so sure if we laid out the stats for McT, Fred and Pogba and compare last 2 seasons, that Pogba would come out as the outstanding winner.

We play better with him on the left than in midfield. That says a lot imo

 

[Member 101269]

Is Pogba hungry? Is he looking at Sancho, Bruno and others thinking this is exciting? If not, let him go...

 

[Martial]

Am I the only one who thinks that Pogba's last season is not something remarkable as some people are alluding to here? I mean there maybe an improvement, but didn't we see multiple people who improved in last season?
I am not so sure if we laid out the stats for McT, Fred and Pogba and compare last 2 seasons, that Pogba would come out as the outstanding winner.

You are spot on.

We even shoved him out on the left because of how much of an utter liability he is in midfield, as he showed for France in the Switzerland game.

 

[Polar]

The problem is Pogba is to weak defensively and McT/Fred aren’t creative enough or not able to control our offensive play.

It’s easy to be impressed by Pogba’s offensive play, but it take some time to understand how bad he influence teams’ defensive play. He was talked up in the sky after the game against Swiss, but in my eyes their defence suffered heavily in second half because of Pogba - same as we have suffered many times. To many people haven’t been able to put the finger on the problem. The problem is that Pogba is leaving to much space, losing the ball in deep position, defensive positioning ++.

The beat solution is to match up Fred or McT with a more creative player (than them) and with better defensive qualities than Pogba.

Even though Rice is a bit better than McFred, he probably is to similar (type of player). The same can be said about Kante.

Neves, Gündoğan, Philips, Kross, Modric are example of players with qualities in the space between Pogba and McFred.

 

[shamans]

It blows my mind how people judge Pogba on here. He had a really good season and from November or December (forgetting a bit) I clearly remember him being integral to our system. Now is he worth a 400k contract, hell no. BUT HE"S CLASS DAMMIT .

EDIT: changed rate to judge because this was confusing

 

[He'sRaldo]

It blows my mind how people rate Pogba on here. He had a really good season and from November or December (forgetting a bit) I clearly remember him being integral to our system. Now is he worth a 400k contract, hell no. But I still can't get over how people act like he's a big name that hasn't backed himself.

Funny how the criticism is always at its peak in the off season or when he's injured.

Where was all this stick when he was performing on the pitch last season?

 

[kouroux]

It blows my mind how people rate Pogba on here. He had a really good season and from November or December (forgetting a bit) I clearly remember him being integral to our system. Now is he worth a 400k contract, hell no. But I still can't get over how people act like he's a big name that hasn't backed himself.

You's a shameless hater, I know your kind.

 

[RUCK4444]

It blows my mind how people rate Pogba on here. He had a really good season and from November or December (forgetting a bit) I clearly remember him being integral to our system. Now is he worth a 400k contract, hell no. But I still can't get over how people act like he's a big name that hasn't backed himself.

Get a grip he’s world class, stop lying to yourself and others.

He’s regularly the best player in the most talented national side on earth.

People can have an opinion that they don’t like him or that he’s hurt their feelings talking about Madrid or whatever other menstrual nonsense they are feeling towards him, but he’s not a bad player, he just isn’t.

 

[Threesus]

I think he just has to move. It’s is last big contract and PSG are building a super team with a good coach. It’s the right time to end this relationship.

Playing with Vidal, marchisio and Pirlo during his early years probably meant that he never had to develop those defensive instincts in his game. Which is probably one reason for his unexplainable lapses in conecentration.

One question: does anyone think that Paul would have broken the Carrick/Scholes partnership?

 

[M16Red]

Get a grip he’s world class, stop lying to yourself and others.

He’s regularly the best player in the most talented national side on earth.

People can have an opinion that they don’t like him or that he’s hurt their feelings talking about Madrid or whatever other menstrual nonsense they are feeling towards him, but he’s not a bad player, he just isn’t.

I started drinking early as well.

 

[shamans]

Get a grip he’s world class, stop lying to yourself and others.

He’s regularly the best player in the most talented national side on earth.

People can have an opinion that they don’t like him or that he’s hurt their feelings talking about Madrid or whatever other menstrual nonsense they are feeling towards him, but he’s not a bad player, he just isn’t.

Erm, I was complimenting Pogba...

 

[shamans]

You's a shameless hater, I know your kind.

Hating on pogba haters that is!

 

[laughtersassassin]

He is Frances best player the last two or three major tournaments.

And he was their best young player the one before that.

Hope he stays. Won't begrudge him if he leaves with how he is treated by the media and fans.

If he goes I wish him the best and just pray we get two proper players in to replace him. CM and a DM. Or Grealish and a DM.

Because mark my words if we don't replace him our midfield will kill us next season. He is the inly one with a brilliant passing range. The others can't even switch the play. Bruno can but you need someone doing it from deep.

So many games last year I was tearing my hair out watching Fred and McT together. They have there uses but playing two players with such limited range of passes is not going to get us winning major trophies

 

[Ish]

You's a shameless hater, I know your kind.

 

[JPRouve]

You's a shameless hater, I know your kind.

FFS, it was just one of @shamans terrible football takes.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Prime Matic?

Come off it. This is what get's me frustrated. We've made a complete half-arsed job of partnering him, we signed Matic when his legs were gone and played him alongside Fred or McTominay!! Neither of which are true DM's.

Stop pretending we've bent over backwards to fit him in. All we've done is play him next to players who are past it or not even DM's.

Also the 'stop the drama' nonsense is so overplayed. He's never once been an a disruptive influence, players and managers have nothing but good things to say about him.

It comes off like somebody who's missus has dumped them and they try to shrug it off like she wasn't all that anyway. He's an outstanding player, we see him regularly being the best player on the pitch for France, he's done it at Juve, no surprises then that he's not quite as good when playing in the most difficult league in the world next to old-man-Matic and McFred! Christ.

Post is spot on but the highlighted part is exactly what I’ve gotten from this whole situation; first season was the honeymoon period then José hunkered down & the ‘he wanted to go to Madrid anyway’ nonsense really picked up pace.

Pogba has been shocking for United at times but I’ve lost count of how many posters here will swear he is a ‘bad player’ then rock up in a McTominay, Fred thread & preach about how ‘good’ they are.

As a United forum we’d all love to play for the club forever but the thought that a world class player could sign for us with the intention of only spending a some years here then leave to try something new really has some people acting like they’ve had their hearts broken for the first time.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Funny how the criticism is always at its peak in the off season or when he's injured.

Where was all this stick when he was performing on the pitch last season?

Not sure about others, but whenever he was performing last season, it felt like a bonus to me. My usual expectation from Pogba is he is going to do feck all. That is after watching him blow hot and cold (regardless of whoever is to be blamed) for several seasons.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I think it’s the only defence left for the Redcafe faction of his cult - that “the emperor is fully clothed” and if you can’t recognise the magnificence of Pogba it’s because you have an agenda or don’t understand the game like they do.

After watching him for 5 years the good, the bad and the ugly are in plain sight and I think most people probably are in agreement think at his best he’s great but it’s not often enough and there are several question marks around him.

This. Pogba is a good player. But you would have to question those that say he is our best player or the best player in the league and stuff like that.

 

[shamans]

This. Pogba is a good player. But you would have to question those that say he is our best player or the best player in the league and stuff like that.

He has been one of our best players this season. It's just tiring hearing the same old "he only shows up for France" BS. Some people I believe genuinely do not watch our games. It's not like this is some made up opinion go back to matchday threads and post match threads. Everyone is talking about how well Pogba played and when it's off season there's this mythical idea as if he's trash for United or good ever 1 in 5 games or something -- ridiculous.

 

[BluesJr]

He has been one of our best players this season. It's just tiring hearing the same old "he only shows up for France" BS. Some people I believe genuinely do not watch our games. It's not like this is some made up opinion go back to matchday threads and post match threads. Everyone is talking about how well Pogba played and when it's off season there's this mythical idea as if he's trash for United or good ever 1 in 5 games or something -- ridiculous.

We are the only fanbase where this would be an issue. Any other club's fans would absolutely adore him and rightly so. It's so embarrassing seeing the same old cliches rolled out again and again. It is essential he stays.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not sure about others, but whenever he was performing last season, it felt like a bonus to me. My usual expectation from Pogba is he is going to do feck all. That is after watching him blow hot and cold (regardless of whoever is to be blamed) for several seasons.

Well if his performances on the pitch aren't enough to change your mind, then chances are nothing will.

 

[Hugh Jass]

He has been one of our best players this season. It's just tiring hearing the same old "he only shows up for France" BS. Some people I believe genuinely do not watch our games. It's not like this is some made up opinion go back to matchday threads and post match threads. Everyone is talking about how well Pogba played and when it's off season there's this mythical idea as if he's trash for United or good ever 1 in 5 games or something -- ridiculous.

Disagree.

 

[RUCK4444]

Erm, I was complimenting Pogba...

Oh sh*t sorry mate, I totally misread your post as though you were saying he wasn’t a good player.

My bad. I’ve gone snow blind with all the negativity, now it’s all I see!

 

[bsCallout]

Funny how the criticism is always at its peak in the off season or when he's injured.

Where was all this stick when he was performing on the pitch last season?

3 goals scored. 3 penalties conceded. 5 assists. Not much to write home about. He was even played in an advanced position on the left.

 

[RUCK4444]

I think it’s the only defence left for the Redcafe faction of his cult - that “the emperor is fully clothed” and if you can’t recognise the magnificence of Pogba it’s because you have an agenda or don’t understand the game like they do.

After watching him for 5 years the good, the bad and the ugly are in plain sight and I think most people probably are in agreement think at his best he’s great but it’s not often enough and there are several question marks around him.

This. Pogba is a good player. But you would have to question those that say he is our best player or the best player in the league and stuff like that.

Most who back him say he’s our most talented player, and he is, comfortably.

Nobody puts him ahead of Bruno as our best or most important player.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Most who back him say he’s our most talented player, and he is, comfortably.

Nobody puts him ahead of Bruno as our best or most important player.

Bruno is way more important to us. Way more.

 

[RUCK4444]

Bruno is way more important to us. Way more.

I know. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[He'sRaldo]

3 goals scored. 3 penalties conceded. 5 assists. Not much to write home about. He was even played in an advanced position on the left.

I trust you were banging this drum as he was performing on the pitch last season? Easy to boil things down to the most basic stats when the player's not actually playing.