Pogba

youmeletsfly said:
You're either 65, stuck in the past, or you just don't get the world these days.
What Raiola does in public about his players is absolutely normal. He doesn't take a piss on Man United, he doesn't break the "man united way", he just gives a political opinion about a particular topic with the purpose of either influencing the club's decisions or getting his player to earn more money. If you can not see that is normal, I'm sorry man, you and the others have serious issues. If you work at Oracle you can't talk about your job in public?

Raiola is a scum for the way he operates in player selection and transfers, asking for huge amounts of money, but he's not a scum for the things he said in public, even if it breaks your tiny little traditional Man United supporter hearts.
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Raiola isnt doing himself any favors, and the way he and other superagents operate is going to end up with UEFA finally taking action and make real strides towards blocking the out of control impact football agents have on big money transfers. Its gotten to the point where the agents hold all the power and the clubs are (unfortunately) willing pawns that bow down to a whole host of insane demands, such as big agent fees sometimes as large as £10m+ and even asking for future sell on percentages. Its problematic because the agents have enormous incentives to move players between clubs. Erling Haaland is the probably going to be left as the biggest example of superagents gone wrong before UEFA shuts it down.

Agents are only middlemen that provide contact and contract, true grifters in a economic bubble with near unlimited potential.

There are currently no threshold for what an agent can earn, and the more desperate the big clubs become after getting the elite talent of the world, the worse the deals will become.
 
Tom Cato said:
Raiola isnt doing himself any favors, and the way he and other superagents operate is going to end up with UEFA finally taking action and make real strides towards blocking the out of control impact football agents have on big money transfers. Its gotten to the point where the agents hold all the power and the clubs are (unfortunately) willing pawns that bow down to a whole host of insane demands, such as big agent fees sometimes as large as £10m+ and even asking for future sell on percentages. Its problematic because the agents have enormous incentives to move players between clubs. Erling Haaland is the probably going to be left as the biggest example of superagents gone wrong before UEFA shuts it down.

Agents are only middlemen that provide contact and contract, true grifters in a economic bubble with near unlimited potential.

There are currently no threshold for what an agent can earn, and the more desperate the big clubs become after getting the elite talent of the world, the worse the deals will become.
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With that I totally agree, the only thing I didn't agree initially was with the poster/posters unhappy that agents talk in public about their player. Anyone can say whatever the feck they want in public as long as they don't break any NDA's that were part of the initial contract.
 
youmeletsfly said:
You're either 65, stuck in the past, or you just don't get the world these days.
What Raiola does in public about his players is absolutely normal. He doesn't take a piss on Man United, he doesn't break the "man united way", he just gives a political opinion about a particular topic with the purpose of either influencing the club's decisions or getting his player to earn more money. If you can not see that is normal, I'm sorry man, you and the others have serious issues. If you work at Oracle you can't talk about your job in public?

Raiola is a scum for the way he operates in player selection and transfers, asking for huge amounts of money, but he's not a scum for the things he said in public, even if it breaks your tiny little traditional Man United supporter hearts.
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I think it's just simply that Pogba has shown he isn't actually here for the club and only cares about his next paycheck. Pogba has shown that he won't run through walls for this team. He's shown that he'll be mostly average with glimpses of brilliance here and there, but wants to be paid as if he is single handedly winning us trophies. That's his right, of course, and the clubs right to negotiate and see what happens.

Agents can do what they do to get their players the most money, that's what they're paid for. the club looks like it isn't Going to fall for this nonsense anymore though, or at least RR isn't. He knows that the club is bigger than the player and we should act like it. The club should receive more from the player than it gives. If Pogba can't deliver , he doesn't deserve the pay he asks for, and he's shown he can't deliver.
 
youmeletsfly said:
With that I totally agree, the only thing I didn't agree initially was with the poster/posters unhappy that agents talk in public about their player. Anyone can say whatever the feck they want in public as long as they don't break any NDA's that were part of the initial contract.
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The number of posters on this site that don’t even read what has been written. When did I say a single word about what Riaola can or cannot say legally or otherwise??? I didn’t...you just read that all for yourself and got your big boy pants all wet....

I voiced a reasonable opinion that agents who are as public, as purposefully disruptive and as toxic as Raiola make it very difficult to support their clients. I said that Pogba has done nothing to counter his agents mischief and give the fans of this club any reassurance whatsoever about his intention or want to be part of ManUtd. If he was a wonderful asset to United producing consistent world class performances...you could make an arguement and say the team has not lived up to his ambition and commitment and wish him and his irritating twat of an agent Well at Real Madrid. As it stands he has been pretty average for Man Utd so he shouldn’t be paid an extra penny and he should be regarded by Utd fans as exactly what he was...an unloyal failure.
 
youmeletsfly said:
With that I totally agree, the only thing I didn't agree initially was with the poster/posters unhappy that agents talk in public about their player. Anyone can say whatever the feck they want in public as long as they don't break any NDA's that were part of the initial contract.
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This./

No one’s running to the Caf when players/their agents angle for moves to us. The whole Raiola charade is nonsense in itself but the pretence about him in regards to Pogba, by the same posters that will tell you how much they want Haaland is laughable.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
This./

No one’s running to the Caf when players/their agents angle for moves to us. The whole Raiola charade is nonsense in itself but the pretence about him in regards to Pogba, by the same posters that will tell you how much they want Haaland is laughable.
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I don’t want Haaland for precisely that reason...Raiola is a prick and for whatever reason, if Haaland did not perform it would be turned on the club for not getting the best out of him. I genuinely cannot believe there are so many people who think that Pogba does not deserve criticism for either a) allowing his agent to behave the way he has or b) for being a sneaky bollox that does not mind his agent unsettling the club every transfer window. It’s one or the other...he either agrees with his agent or he doesn’t...either way...his silence speaks volumes.
 
captaincantona said:
I don’t want Haaland for precisely that reason...Raiola is a prick and for whatever reason, if Haaland did not perform it would be turned on the club for not getting the best out of him. I genuinely cannot believe there are so many people who think that Pogba does not deserve criticism for either a) allowing his agent to behave the way he has or b) for being a sneaky bollox that does not mind his agent unsettling the club every transfer window. It’s one or the other...he either agrees with his agent or he doesn’t...either way...his silence speaks volumes.
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When I say posters, I don’t speak as a monolith but there are a number of posters here that’ll say how terrible Raiola is [& slate Pogba for it] but a quick post check shows them talking up Haaland transfers with no mention of his agent.

It’s about consistency for me, that’s all but the discussion becomes Pogba-centric as if DvBs agent wasn’t mouthing off this season, as if Raiola clients aren’t coveted by Caf members etc. No one has said Pogba doesn’t deserve criticism.
 
AFC NimbleThumb said:
When I say posters, I don’t speak as a monolith but there are a number of posters here that’ll say how terrible Raiola is [& slate Pogba for it] but a quick post check shows them talking up Haaland transfers with no mention of his agent.

It’s about consistency for me, that’s all but the discussion becomes Pogba-centric as if DvBs agent wasn’t mouthing off this season, as if Raiola clients aren’t coveted by Caf members etc. No one has said Pogba doesn’t deserve criticism.
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Do you not think that DVBs agent was quite polite considering the fuking awful treatment his client was receiving...I mean awful. Genuinely career halting stuff from Ole with DVB but the agent did his job. Raiola is a different animal altogether...which is fine...as long as the player is clear about what he wants. DVB spoke out himself...confirmed he was unhappy but willing to knuckle down...the agent shut up...Raiola doesn’t talk shit on Zlatans behalf even half as much because Zlatan talks for himself . He either confirms or denies rumours and doesn’t let the media stir shit. Pogba’s family talk constantly and never once does Pogba say “don’t mind my brothers...I’m a Man Utd player and I’m committed to this club”...

there is no defence for it. He has wanted out for years...bye bye so...I couldn’t care less.
 
captaincantona said:
Do you not think that DVBs agent was quite polite considering the fuking awful treatment his client was receiving...I mean awful. Genuinely career halting stuff from Ole with DVB but the agent did his job. Raiola is a different animal altogether...which is fine...as long as the player is clear about what he wants. DVB spoke out himself...confirmed he was unhappy but willing to knuckle down...the agent shut up...Raiola doesn’t talk shit on Zlatans behalf even half as much because Zlatan talks for himself . He either confirms or denies rumours and doesn’t let the media stir shit. Pogba’s family talk constantly and never once does Pogba say “don’t mind my brothers...I’m a Man Utd player and I’m committed to this club”...

there is no defence for it. He has wanted out for years...bye bye so...I couldn’t care less.
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He seems to be pretty vocal when it comes to Haaland, on the other hand.
 
We should get rid unless he's willing to accept a minimal sign on bonus and a pay cut based on his injury record and overall performances. If another club is willing to pay him more it'd be the perfect scenario for all parties.

We need to stop rewarding mediocrity (price-to-performance).
 
I think the main issue is the 400k that is being reported. Nobody in their right mind believes Pogba deserves that kind of money. Making Pogba the highest paid player at Utd (excluding Ronaldo) would damage the dressing room as there are other players who have been far more consistent and productive on smaller salaries. If Pogba works hard, adopts Ralfs philosophy and drops his demands he would be an excellent option.

I don't think that Pogba will stay though. He has demonstrated a lack of loyalty to Utd on numerous occasions. Running his contract down and leaking negativity before big games. I think he will leave for a big pay check and I don't blame him, that's just who he is.
 
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captaincantona said:
I don’t want Haaland for precisely that reason...Raiola is a prick and for whatever reason, if Haaland did not perform it would be turned on the club for not getting the best out of him. I genuinely cannot believe there are so many people who think that Pogba does not deserve criticism for either a) allowing his agent to behave the way he has or b) for being a sneaky bollox that does not mind his agent unsettling the club every transfer window. It’s one or the other...he either agrees with his agent or he doesn’t...either way...his silence speaks volumes.
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Well said. Of course Raiols is Pogbas mouthpiece. Pogba pays him to represent him and if he was on a tangent to what Pogba wanted, he wouldn't be his agent for long. I hope Utd learn a lesson from this and never deal with any player Raiols represents. Anyone who thinks Haaland is coming here needs to wake up and stop dreaming. It's not going to happen.
 
wolvored said:
Well said. Of course Raiols is Pogbas mouthpiece. Pogba pays him to represent him and if he was on a tangent to what Pogba wanted, he wouldn't be his agent for long. I hope Utd learn a lesson from this and never deal with any player Raiols represents. Anyone who thinks Haaland is coming here needs to wake up and stop dreaming. It's not going to happen.
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I remember saying we shouldn't deal with Raiola players years ago and was shut down for it. I stand by it though.
 
VP89 said:
I remember saying we shouldn't deal with Raiola players years ago and was shut down for it. I stand by it though.
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Think Fergie knew the craic on this sort of thing too...I think he would be pulling his hair out with the modern footballer and his agent.
 
I don't even think Riola is s football fan. He seems to hold such a high disregard for clubs and by extention their fans. It is just money money money with him. I bet after Pogba finishes playing he will look back on his career and pinpoint his relationship with Riola as the main reason he never achieved more at club level.
 
smi11ie said:
I don't even think Riola is s football fan. He seems to hold such a high disregard for clubs and by extention their fans. It is just money money money with him. I bet after Pogba finishes playing he will look back on his career and pinpoint his relationship with Riola as the main reason he never achieved more at club level.
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How would Raiola be the main reason he never achieved more at club level? First Pogba achieved more than a large amount of Football greats, we are talking about a player that has actually won league titles, played a CL final and won the Europa League. But is Raiola responsible for United underachieving since 2016, for Pogba's injury record or his footballing limitations?
 
Seems to be his salary demands are limiting or have exhausted opinions. I worry he wants money more than United, stating if we were winning trophies would make it easier. But I’m with Ralf, if people don’t want to be here then don’t
 
I think we should all band together and buy Mino steaks. Loads and loads of steaks. Good fatty and utterly delicious steaks.
 
JPRouve said:
How would Raiola be the main reason he never achieved more at club level? First Pogba achieved more than a large amount of Football greats, we are talking about a player that has actually won league titles, played a CL final and won the Europa League. But is Raiola responsible for United underachieving since 2016, for Pogba's injury record or his footballing limitations?
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Raiola is directly responsible for causing mischief with clubs that his clients play for in order to overplay their ability and importance and to negotiate as many moves as possible in order to generate more transfer fees. It suits him to fill his players full of self importance as this makes it easier for them to blame everyone else for their poor performances and believe they are worth more than they are. Move to another team...they will appreciate you more...(rubs hands together)...it’s his fuking business model!

Pogba should have at some point acknowledged - both he and his agent pitch him as being a top five player in the world ...ie .deserving of that status and salary. Pogba’s performances are quite simply no where near that...so Pogba should be telling his agent to keep quiet and stop trying to strong arm the club when he has done nothing to back up the transfer fee, the salary, the non committal attitude and the super star allowances he seems to have been granted by the club.

Raiola is firmly a part of that problem.
 
Riola helps to plot Paul's career and he should have been at a more successful club winning major club titles. The move back to Utd was purely for money. The next move will be also.
 
captaincantona said:
Raiola is directly responsible for causing mischief with clubs that his clients play for in order to overplay their ability and importance and to negotiate as many moves as possible in order to generate more transfer fees. It suits him to fill his players full of self importance as this makes it easier for them to blame everyone else for their poor performances and believe they are worth more than they are. Move to another team...they will appreciate you more...(rubs hands together)...it’s his fuking business model!

Pogba should have at some point acknowledged - both he and his agent pitch him as being a top five player in the world ...ie .deserving of that status and salary. Pogba’s performances are quite simply no where near that...so Pogba should be telling his agent to keep quiet and stop trying to strong arm the club when he has done nothing to back up the transfer fee, the salary, the non committal attitude and the super star allowances he seems to have been granted by the club.

Raiola is firmly a part of that problem.
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That's complete nonsense, Raiola clients don't move more than your average player and they don't have more issues than your average player either, people tend to base that ridiculous theory around Ibrahimovic who didn't move due to his agent but due to where he started his career and events that have happened at certain clubs and weren't linked to him(Juventus with Calciopoli and Milan with Berlusconi selling the club). Also Pogba will be 29 in March and only played professionally for two clubs, it's baffling that people even try to use that theory for him.

Pogba isn't on a super star salary, he wasn't in 2016 and isn't close to it today, his transfer fee is a business decision between Juventus and United it makes no sense to expect him to backup something that he didn't create and what kind of super star allowances has the club granted him?

Finally Pogba's club career isn't a problem, unless you played for prime Barcelona or Real Madrid, you are unlikely to have had better club career.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
Hopefully signs the contract and becomes the main stay of the team just to annoy the hell out of the posters on here who want him away.
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He'll never be that focal point.
He's not got what it takes
 
smi11ie said:
Riola helps to plot Paul's career and he should have been at a more successful club winning major club titles. The move back to Utd was purely for money. The next move will be also.
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How the move to United was purely for money? You do realize that Real Madrid pays their star players more than what United paid Pogba?
 
JPRouve said:
How the move to United was purely for money? You do realize that Real Madrid pays their star players more than what United paid Pogba?
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Not just Pogba though, apparently Riola got a hefty chunk in that deal. I think another agent could have handled Pogba's career better than Riola.
 
smi11ie said:
Not just Pogba though, apparently Riola got a hefty chunk in that deal. I think another agent could have handled Pogba's career better than Riola.
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Juventus owed money to Raiola and Pogba due to the first two contract negotiations that didn't had signing bonuses and were undervalued due to Juventus lack of cash. They were getting that money regardless of the name of the other club involved. And it's fine to say that an other agent could have handled Pogba's career better but the question is what do you mean by that because again, the only big prize that Pogba hasn't won is the CL and the PL, what make you think that an other agent would have made sure that he gets those titles, what makes you think that a different agent lead to less injuries or lead to United signing better players than what they did between 2016-2021?
 
JPRouve said:
That's complete nonsense, Raiola clients don't move more than your average player and they don't have more issues than your average player either, people tend to base that ridiculous theory around Ibrahimovic who didn't move due to his agent but due to where he started his career and events that have happened at certain clubs and weren't linked to him(Juventus with Calciopoli and Milan with Berlusconi selling the club). Also Pogba will be 29 in March and only played professionally for two clubs, it's baffling that people even try to use that theory for him.

Pogba isn't on a super star salary, he wasn't in 2016 and isn't close to it today, his transfer fee is a business decision between Juventus and United it makes no sense to expect him to backup something that he didn't create and what kind of super star allowances has the club granted him?

Finally Pogba's club career isn't a problem, unless you played for prime Barcelona or Real Madrid, you are unlikely to have had better club career.
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Bullshit...he has been plotting Haaland next move since day one...De Ligt has moved for big money and will be off again soon...Pogba would have been gone had Madrid of had the money...Raiola is in a win win...if the player plays well...he agitates in the media to say the player could move elsewhere so as to gain leverage for a better contract...if the player plays poorly, he deflects, goes after the coach or the club and agitates for another move where his player will be more appreciated.

that’s fine...he is a fuking legend of an agent for his clients...makes them feel like number one and never have to take responsibility for their own failings...gets big money to boot...however, as a football fan, I am perfectly within my rights tofindnit difficult to pay money for tickets and shirts and to watch games, supporting a player that is very clearly not in one bit loyal to the club I love. If he allows his agent to make trouble like he has...why should I give the time of day to either of them? Pogba has not lived up to his or his own agents hype...full stop.

Im as fickle as the next person...and if a genius mercenary wants to join Utd for two years and play out of his skin and lead Utd to better football and trophies I’ll give him some of the 400k p/w myself! But I won’t do it for a fair weather player who really has done nothing to warrant the support of Utd fans.
 
I feel that the whole agent thing is a lot less important than the fact he's been a massive disappointment as a footballer.

Yes his agent is irritating, while agents can act in the way he does and he hasn't commited any crime, most do not, at least not so disruptively and overtly.

However, what if Pogba had spent years putting in good performances? We'd still care, look at how big a story Ronaldo's will he/won't he leave dance was. But then the story is that you're losing a top footballer.

The fact is he's an incredibly flawed footballer. Good at long range passing, good vision, able to create something more than most central midfielders. But an average short passer, average against a press, slows a team down, plays in bursts within games and within fixtures, defensively useless, meanders around the pitch. Seemingly takes little responsibility for or is incapable for improving.

He's simply not as good as we must have thought he was when we paid 90mill and spent so much time in "trying to get the best out of him." It has been a fruitless pursuit of trying to get something more out of a player that is all theoretical talent but practically flawed, in which case I ask is he actually that good? It's about what you can deploy mentally, physically and technically.

So then it comes back round to his agent and I think, at this point, is he such a big story within the context of this failed pursuit? I think that gives Raiola a lot more importance than he's due. The fact the story is as much about the agent is probably convenient for them since Pogba has been so useless. The reason he should go is because he's produced little, was overrated by ourselves and is economically unappealing.
 
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captaincantona said:
Bullshit...he has been plotting Haaland next move since day one...De Ligt has moved for big money and will be off again soon...Pogba would have been gone had Madrid of had the money...Raiola is in a win win...if the player plays well...he agitates in the media to say the player could move elsewhere so as to gain leverage for a better contract...if the player plays poorly, he deflects, goes after the coach or the club and agitates for another move where his player will be more appreciated.

that’s fine...he is a fuking legend of an agent for his clients...makes them feel like number one and never have to take responsibility for their own failings...gets big money to boot...however, as a football fan, I am perfectly within my rights tofindnit difficult to pay money for tickets and shirts and to watch games, supporting a player that is very clearly not in one bit loyal to the club I love. If he allows his agent to make trouble like he has...why should I give the time of day to either of them? Pogba has not lived up to his or his own agents hype...full stop.

Im as fickle as the next person...and if a genius mercenary wants to join Utd for two years and play out of his skin and lead Utd to better football and trophies I’ll give him some of the 400k p/w myself! But I won’t do it for a fair weather player who really has done nothing to warrant the support of Utd fans.
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Bullshit? Footballers move and plan their careers, it's not something special to Raiola and his clients. It's true for all players that have not been developped in one of the top 10 clubs in the world or aren't ready to start early in their careers. But again instead of talking nonsense, just look at his clients and the amount of clubs they played for, compare it with any agent that you want. Also agents try to get better contracts for their clients or better moves, whether they are named Mendes, Barnett or Raiola.

Most players move a fair bit during their career and they try to elevate regularly, the only time they may settle is when they reach the highest level in terms of competition and remuneration. You used Haaland as an example, his career choices aren't that different from Lewandowski's or someone like David Villa. And De Ligt has moved from Ajax to Juventus and has only moved once in his career, what exactly is wrong with that?
 
JPRouve said:
Juventus owed money to Raiola and Pogba due to the first two contract negotiations that didn't had signing bonuses and were undervalued due to Juventus lack of cash. They were getting that money regardless of the name of the other club involved. And it's fine to say that an other agent could have handled Pogba's career better but the question is what do you mean by that because again, the only big prize that Pogba hasn't won is the CL and the PL, what make you think that an other agent would have made sure that he gets those titles, what makes you think that a different agent lead to less injuries or lead to United signing better players than what they did between 2016-2021?
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JPRouve said:
Bullshit? Footballers move and plan their careers, it's not something special to Raiola and his clients. It's true for all players that have not been developped in one of the top 10 clubs in the world or aren't ready to start early in their careers. But again instead of talking nonsense, just look at his clients and the amount of clubs they played for, compare it with any agent that you want. Also agents try to get better contracts for their clients or better moves, whether they are named Mendes, Barnett or Raiola.

Most players move a fair bit during their career and they try to elevate regularly, the only time they may settle is when they reach the highest level in terms of competition and remuneration. You used Haaland as an example, his career choices aren't that different from Lewandowski's or someone like David Villa. And De Ligt has moved from Ajax to Juventus and has only moved once in his career, what exactly is wrong with that?
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who said anything was wrong with it? Read back all my posts...your arguing a point that was never in debate...my point is that an agents job is to do the best for his client. Some do that to great effect under the radar...some don’t need to because the player is happy where he is and the relationship with the club is good. Raiola is toxic. Good for the player financially but not for either the selling club or the buying club. In addition, his attitude and approach to the media make his a repugnant figure in the footballing world that makes some fans shudder to think their club will become involved with one of his clients...why? Because it’s only a matter of time before he starts stirring shit. He is an extra burden that no professional or high profile club needs or wants and unless the player is unequivocally worth the headache (which Pogba certainly isn’t) I hope Utd steer clear.

Im not saying Raiola is responsible for Pogba being average...I am saying he is responsible for trying to get us to pay 400k a week to keep an average player and for putting pressure on the club in the media etc. in order to do that.
 
youmeletsfly said:
You're either 65, stuck in the past, or you just don't get the world these days.
What Raiola does in public about his players is absolutely normal. He doesn't take a piss on Man United, he doesn't break the "man united way", he just gives a political opinion about a particular topic with the purpose of either influencing the club's decisions or getting his player to earn more money. If you can not see that is normal, I'm sorry man, you and the others have serious issues. If you work at Oracle you can't talk about your job in public?

Raiola is a scum for the way he operates in player selection and transfers, asking for huge amounts of money, but he's not a scum for the things he said in public, even if it breaks your tiny little traditional Man United supporter hearts.
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What an immature, BS post. What's with ageism!

There you are saying that's how the world is these days but you then call Mino scum for the huge commissions! Who gives a feck about the huge commissions, the club has an option to not pay it and not deal with him. In the same way that Pogba can tell Mino to STFU. But he never does that.
Does that mean everything is alright then!
 
Abraxas said:
I feel that the whole agent thing is a lot less important than the fact he's been a massive disappointment as a footballer.

Yes his agent is irritating, while agents can act in the way he does and he hasn't commited any crime, most do not, at least not so disruptively and overtly.

However, what if Pogba had spent years putting in good performances? We'd still care, look at how big a story Ronaldo's will he/won't he leave dance was. But then the story is that you're losing a top footballer.

The fact is he's an incredibly flawed footballer. Good at long range passing, good vision, able to create something more than most central midfielders. But an average short passer, average against a press, slows a team down, plays in bursts within games and within fixtures, defensively useless, meanders around the pitch. Seemingly takes little responsibility for or is incapable for improving.

He's simply not as good as we must have thought he was when we paid 90mill and spent so much time in "trying to get the best out of him." It has been a fruitless pursuit of trying to get something more out of a player that is all theoretical talent but practically flawed, in which case I ask is he actually that good? It's about what you can deploy mentally, physically and technically.

So then it comes back round to his agent and I think, at this point, is he such a big story within the context of this failed pursuit? I think that gives Raiola a lot more importance than he's due. The fact the story is as much about the agent is probably convenient for them since Pogba has been so useless. The reason he should go is because he's produced little, was overrated by ourselves and is economically unappealing.
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Good post. If he’d gone from strength to strength. Was available and playing well more often than not the fans would be happy for him to get whatever top footballers are getting at this and other clubs: No matter who his agent is. As it stands it’s the emperors new clothes and most savvy clubs and football people can surely see through it. The only club Mino will have to play us off is PSG and I still seriously doubt Pogba will want to go there so that’s a big plus for us. If he’s on 280k pw now he’ll be lucky to even get that at most other clubs, even on a free transfer. I bet he’ll sign up here again for 350 and he’ll be damn lucky to get it in this league after the last 5 years. I think at this point we’d be making a mistake but you can’t just let 90 million go for free can you?
 
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captaincantona said:
who said anything was wrong with it? Read back all my posts...your arguing a point that was never in debate...my point is that an agents job is to do the best for his client. Some do that to great effect under the radar...some don’t need to because the player is happy where he is and the relationship with the club is good. Raiola is toxic. Good for the player financially but not for either the selling club or the buying club. In addition, his attitude and approach to the media make his a repugnant figure in the footballing world that makes some fans shudder to think their club will become involved with one of his clients...why? Because it’s only a matter of time before he starts stirring shit. He is an extra burden that no professional or high profile club needs or wants and unless the player is unequivocally worth the headache (which Pogba certainly isn’t) I hope Utd steer clear.
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You are making no sense, you question moves(see below) and act as if they were specific to this agent, use Haaland and De Ligt moves as examples but now say that there was nothing wrong with the moves. So intead of muddying the water sticks to the point, what exactly is special in a player moving from Molde then Salzburg and then Dortmund are you seriously going to pretend that these moves are special, that they are motivated by money and not a fairly normal evolution for a teenager, are you going to pretend that moving from Ajax to Juventus was a strange move that can only be explained by money?

captaincantona said:
Raiola is directly responsible for causing mischief with clubs that his clients play for in order to overplay their ability and importance and to negotiate as many moves as possible in order to generate more transfer fees. It suits him to fill his players full of self importance as this makes it easier for them to blame everyone else for their poor performances and believe they are worth more than they are. Move to another team...they will appreciate you more...(rubs hands together)...it’s his fuking business model!

Pogba should have at some point acknowledged - both he and his agent pitch him as being a top five player in the world ...ie .deserving of that status and salary. Pogba’s performances are quite simply no where near that...so Pogba should be telling his agent to keep quiet and stop trying to strong arm the club when he has done nothing to back up the transfer fee, the salary, the non committal attitude and the super star allowances he seems to have been granted by the club.

Raiola is firmly a part of that problem.
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I can totally understand that many fans only care about the position of the club and only see things from that point of view but the constant nonsense and lies that people come up with in order to justify their bias is baffling, it doesn't even make a little bit of sense. You don't like Raiola it's perfectly fine, he is irritating, but don't go around making up no sense and acting as if his clients moved more than others because they clearly don't, don't pretend that players don't plan their careers and have any intention to stay at all the clubs they sign for because that's a lie and don't pretend that this is just about money because it's mainly about incremental development which again is the most common thing in Football.

Also even if it was about money, we are talking about professional athletes. Money is extremely important, they all have to maximize their revenues and for the vast majority of them only the guarantee of trophy could justify not seeking better income. Sometimes fans need to stop thinking like fans and think like responsible adults.
 
JPRouve said:
You are making no sense, you question moves(see below) and act as if they were specific to this agent, use Haaland and De Ligt moves as examples but now say that there was nothing wrong with the moves. So intead of muddying the water sticks to the point, what exactly is special in a player moving from Molde then Salzburg and then Dortmund are you seriously going to pretend that these moves are special, that they are motivated by money and not a fairly normal evolution for a teenager, are you going to pretend that moving from Ajax to Juventus was a strange move that can only be explained by money?



I can totally understand that many fans only care about the position of the club and only see things from that point of view but the constant nonsense and lies that people come up with in order to justify their bias is baffling, it doesn't even make a little bit of sense. You don't like Raiola it's perfectly fine, he is irritating, but don't go around making up no sense and acting as if his clients moved more than others because they clearly don't, don't pretend that players don't plan their careers and have any intention to stay at all the clubs they sign for because that's a lie and don't pretend that this is just about money because it's mainly about incremental development which again is the most common thing in Football.

Also even if it was about money, we are talking about professional athletes. Money is extremely important, they all have to maximize their revenues and for the vast majority of them only the guarantee of trophy could justify not seeking better income. Sometimes fans need to stop thinking like fans and think like responsible adults.
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Ah here...I couldn’t have been more clear about the fact that I understand the purpose of agents...and i understand Raiolas role...he is a fuking agitator plain and simple...some agents behave with decorum...he doesn’t...I never said other agents don’t help their player make moves...I said...look at Haaland...even
Prior to moving to Dortmund he makes noises about the next move...even now...making noises about who can and can’t afford him...undermining Watzkes and Dortmund’s position...Haaland will be 25 coming to the end of his next contract with whoever Madrid or City...do you think Raiola will be quiet for those 5 years??? Not a bit...he will be agitating and putting pressure on the manager if his player is left out of the team...giving interviews and lining up plan b.

How much clearer can I be...that behaviour...while completely legal...is slimey as feck and if a pro footballer condones it and authorises it...so be it...but don’t expect fans to chant your name when it’s clear you care more about an extra million or two a year then you do about actually justifying the salary that loyal supporters contribute to every week of their lives through shirt sales, merchandise,tv subscriptions, match tickets...sponsorship endorsements etc.

Be who you want to be...Raiola doesn’t give a fuk...he is rich. Good luck to him. Pogba is rich...good luck to him. But only one of them will regret that He had the talent to be rich and revered and loved...and instead...not a stadium in the world will sing his name once he retires...no club will have part of their museum dedicated to him...he will always be less and he could have been more..unlike the company he keeps.
 
captaincantona said:
Ah here...I couldn’t have been more clear about the fact that I understand the purpose of agents...and i understand Raiolas role...he is a fuking agitator plain and simple...some agents behave with decorum...he doesn’t...I never said other agents don’t help their player make moves...I said...look at Haaland...even
Prior to moving to Dortmund he makes noises about the next move...even now...making noises about who can and can’t afford him...undermining Watzkes and Dortmund’s position...Haaland will be 25 coming to the end of his next contract with whoever Madrid or City...do you think Raiola will be quiet for those 5 years??? Not a bit...he will be agitating and putting pressure on the manager if his player is left out of the team...giving interviews and lining up plan b.

How much clearer can I be...that behaviour...while completely legal...is slimey as feck and if a pro footballer condones it and authorises it...so be it...but don’t expect fans to chant your name when it’s clear you care more about an extra million or two a year then you do about actually justifying the salary that loyal supporters contribute to every week of their lives through shirt sales, merchandise,tv subscriptions, match tickets...sponsorship endorsements etc.

Be who you want to be...Raiola doesn’t give a fuk...he is rich. Good luck to him. Pogba is rich...good luck to him. But only one of them will regret that He had the talent to be rich and revered and loved...and instead...not a stadium in the world will sing his name once he retires...no club will have part of their museum dedicated to him...he will always be less and he could have been more..unlike the company he keeps.
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One of the best posts I have ever read on the Caf - 1,000,000% This.
 
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