Not sure why anyone thinks this is odd
Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP
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Not sure why anyone thinks this is odd
He will be happy to leave the single market.
The Lib Dems are the most pro EU party, to the point where their leader wants a 2nd referendum. Yet most Lib Dems voters in this poll want tighter immigration rules. Tighter immigration and being in favour of the EU don't go together.
It begs the question why are they Lib Dem voters ? Unless they view immigration as a minor issue but that would be surprising.
At least Angus Robertson is doing his job
May has just completely jumped the shark there "The SNP is worse than the Conservatives because they are dedicated to leaving the single market by leaving the U.K"
As if she's forgotten the speech she made yesterday
The wolverine-like opposition. Corbyn might as well go and sit on her lap.
Corbyn had rather a spot of bother at PMQs according to one person i follow on twitter.
The Lib Dem party are the most Pro-EU party at the moment. Mainly because Labour are a disaster. But the Lib Dems usually land somewhere between Labour and the Tories. Many Lib Dems think they have more in common with the Tories than Labour, especially at the moment (this is also why they are getting hammered).
But I think you are massively confusing what the Lib Dem party want.
Liberal Democrats believe Britain must be open for business and growth but closed to crooks and cheats. Britain needs more students and more visitors to come to help our economy grow. We will encourage people to visit Britain, learn in Britain and contribute to Britain. We will say yes to doctors, experts, entrepreneurs and investors. But we will say no to crooks, traffickers and those who would damage our country.
By bringing back proper border checks - so we know who’s coming in and leaving the UK - we will identify and deport people who over-stay their visa. We will create visible security and firm control, with real processes to count everyone in and count everyone out. No more guesswork on numbers: real evidence to catch out overstayers. We’ll ensure people can speak English and are willing to work. We’ll ensure that migrants, including from the EU, come to work or study, not to claim benefits. And when it’s time for them to leave, we will make sure they return home.
http://www.libdems.org.uk/immigration
The Lib Dem approach could probably be summarised as using the tools the EU give us rather than crying home and saying we're leaving
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Surely it is possible for them to weigh things up and lean towards EU membership, whilst still believing that its immigration policy is inflexible?
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This its clearly an on balance judgement. You can't draw any conclusion by way of seperate questioning.
Also asking about tighter controls is very leading, of course most think tighter rules are better but it doesn't necessarily mean they want less immigration.
Which is why I thought it was odd that any Lib Dem voters who wanted tighter immigration would still call themselves a Lib Dem voter and wouldn't have already jumped over to the tories. But yeah I think your right, I didn't know their party line on immigration was so strong, I mean feck''And when it’s time for them to leave, we will make sure they return home'' you'd expect that type of rhetoric from a party on the far right.
Yeah I guess, it's just that for a lot of people(Well at least recently) immigration is all ways a top priority. Although as @Smores says the question is sort of open.
Could be that they're more socially liberal leaning. Even Cameron's modern Tory party were incredibly illiberal when it came to things like the Snoopers Charter which the Dems helped restrict, to their credit. Not to mention their policies on drugs and voting systems etc.
Being a Lib Dem supporter is basically saying "both sides are idiots."
Which was working well until they got into power and got blamed for being idiots too.
Which was working well until they got into power and got blamed for being idiots too.
Fair point. Suppose until the emergence of UKIP they had the benefit of being the protest vote of sorts. As long as you weren't far-right or left, they were really your only other option.
That's quite accurate and is certainly the line Tim Farron has gone with recently. As if the Lib Dems are in any position to govern anything right now.
I very nearly voted for them but found my sense at the last minute.
I wonder if a lot of Lib Dem voters who said immigration should be tightened are doing so because they accept it is overwhelmingly what the people of the UK want, rather than because they themselves personally want it, if you see the distinction?
Because I agree, the Lib Dems are, as far as Im concerned, unequivocally and unashamedly pro European, and consistently make the case for the positive impact immigration has for the country. You do hear them say things like, "It is fair to want to control immigration because people have concerns about the impact uncontrolled immigration is having on their communities", which is subtly different to saying, "We should control immigration because of the impact immigrants have on our communities." They do tend to put in that extra bit to qualify it, from what I observe anyway.
@rcoobc is right that the Lib Dems do see themselves as between the Tories and Labour on some issues. Economic liberalism is essentially right of centre while social liberalism is left of centre. But I dont think they would see themselves as "in the middle" on Europe at all, I think they would see themselves as completely on the other side of this issue to the Tories, with Labour in the middle (given they are the ones trying to fend off the UKIP threat in their northern seats.)
I think a few former Labour people on here where talking about possible voting for the Lib Dems, so that might be the case, although it's over a 20 point difference, that's pretty large difference for so called liberal leaning voter base.
As for their time in government I guess you could give them credit but at some stage we are just thanking them for not being super massive cnuts or worse Tories. They did do plenty of awful stuff in government.
Was it Cleggmania ?
Yeah I didn't think of it like that, could well be true. My thought process was more that the Lib Dem voters who wanted tighter immigration policy haven't realised or didn't care that they support a party who wants to stay in the EU thus making tighter immigration impossible.
I can see why people would scuff at the Lib Dems. But, they're are the only party not called the Conservatives, that know what direction they're are going and what they want.
That's the direction the leadership has gone but it's not a unanimous thing. About 30% of Lib Dem voters voted for Leave. As I said earlier, in the south west the culture of the Lib Dems is very different from the culture in London and the student cities.
OK fair enough. The Lib Dems have always had even more of an issue than the other parties in terms of being fairly broad. Though I would say as far as the leadership / MPs are concerned this is not a new position. As you say, many Lib Dem voters may feel differently.
You never go full UKIP.
Takeaway: SNP and LD voters have principles! UKIP voters are sadists. Lab and Con are pragmatic.
Most alarming bit is that 3% of UKIP voters think torture should be allowed even though they think it doesn't work.
That was what I was just about to comment on.
Yeah, it's not doing much for their image as the party of nutters and bastards.
Glad some Tories at least are speaking out on it, hopefully May gets shamed into at least pretending to have a spine sometime soon.
May is as spineless as they come. Even feckin Sultan Erdogan spoke out a bit about Trump.
She's entangled in this war for Trump's affection with Michael Gove and Frogface Farage. It robs the UK of its international dignity and is quite pathetic to watch.
She's entangled in this war for Trump's affection with Michael Gove and Frogface Farage. It robs the UK of its international dignity and is quite pathetic to watch.
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When Tim fecking Stanley is opposed to you for being too far-right, you know you're doing something wrong.
There is no reason for May to denounce any of the things Trump has said or done. The kind of person who voted Brexit and will keep her in power agree with all of it.
True, although rather reprehensible when one of her own MP's is now banned from the US.
A fecking joke is what it is. May has no fecking spine.
May will be more than happy to give the US whatever they want whilst downplaying any differences because we need something from them. Our goverment has had years of practice with Saudi and Israel
Not overly convinced Sky Data are particularly decent but anyway
Emily Thornberry asking Boris whether May was kept in the dark or thought the policy was OK was very good.
Him thinking he had a 'gotcha' moment on Skinner referring to Mussolini bombing Britain was another absolute gem. He must have been out smashing up restaurants and missed that history class.
Him thinking he had a 'gotcha' moment on Skinner referring to Mussolini bombing Britain was another absolute gem. He must have been out smashing up restaurants and missed that history class.
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Has he always dressed up like a Farage tribute act?
He'll be utterly insufferable if he wins, ffs Stoke be reasonable.
He'll be utterly insufferable if he wins, ffs Stoke be reasonable.
It's all gone downhill since Rik died, bless him.
Incredibly shocking that he still keeps getting commissioned to write. He kind of reminds me of the Rawkites with their 'my rag mate admits this that'...His schtick is so tedious.
As in Mayall? I couldn't agree more.