Politics at Westminster | BREAKING: UKIP

Whether or not it's a decent point though, it's just absurd to start quoting Mao in parliament. McDonnell should've known that it wouldn't go down well, and should know that quoting a figure such as Mao just isn't a wise tactic.

The Jamie Carragher of politics.
 
My hatred for the Tories has just multiplied again by a hundred with the cutting of funding for student nurses. Absolute fecking scum, and if you support them or voted for them then you are scum too. You are literally a fecking cancer to humanity. I hope you and all of your relatives get horrendous illnesses and get the terrible treatment that you deserve.

I'm going on a fecking rampage, I'll see you evil cnuts in hell.
They can afford private healthcare, though.
 
I can only assume that in the middle of a "there are no bad ideas" brain storm session some adviser said I know how we can stop people remembering socialism with an ipad... Let's quote from Mao over the dispatch box, we can even throw the little Red book at Osborne for maximum effect
And somehow through a combination of political naivety and incompetence they went with it.
I'd love to see the face of Chukka when he pulled the book out... Equally I wonder if comrade corbyn knew what was coming
 
I can only assume that in the middle of a "there are no bad ideas" brain storm session some adviser said I know how we can stop people remembering socialism with an ipad... Let's quote from Mao
And somehow through a combination of political naivety and incompetence they went with it.
I'd love to see the face of Chukka when he pulled the book out... Equally I wonder if comrade corbyn knew what was coming
He could do with reading your book, because if this was "taking the fight to Osborne" he just had his head put on a pike.

Here's Tom Watson's look of panic as he realised what was about to happen:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-throws-the-little-red-book-at-osborne-video

My previous belief that a coup should be held off until members show a clear sign of rejecting the leadership is beginning to wear away. Them continuing looks to be more damaging every day than even an open revolt.
 
They can afford private healthcare, though.

Doesn't matter (long term) unless private healthcare companies are going to start training/funding nurses themselves.

You're right though, the scum will find a way to prosper. It's the idiots (lower-middle and working class Tories) who are punching themselves and everyone else in the face.

Idiots and scum.
 
He could do with reading your book, because if this was "taking the fight to Osborne" he just had his head put on a pike.

Here's Tom Watson's look of panic as he realised what was about to happen:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-throws-the-little-red-book-at-osborne-video

My previous belief that a coup should be held off until members show a clear sign of rejecting the leadership is beginning to wear away. Them continuing looks to be more damaging every day than even an open revolt.

The problem with this is though that no matter what your opinion on Corbyn is, or your opinion on how he's leading the party, is that he still has a democratic mandate to lead the party.

Ousting him right now would be a massive issue for the party. Could you imagine them trying to label the Tories as being nasty and untrustworthy when they pretty much disregard the opinions of those who voted for Corbyn, and force an elected party leader out of his position? I'd be surprised if anyone even remotely decent would be willing to take up the leadership role when they'd be aware of how toxic it would be.
 
The problem with this is though that no matter what your opinion on Corbyn is, or your opinion on how he's leading the party, is that he still has a democratic mandate to lead the party.

Ousting him right now would be a massive issue for the party. Could you imagine them trying to label the Tories as being nasty and untrustworthy when they pretty much disregard the opinions of those who voted for Corbyn, and force an elected party leader out of his position? I'd be surprised if anyone even remotely decent would be willing to take up the leadership role when they'd be aware of how toxic it would be.
I agree with all that, it's why I've held the view that any coup would have to wait until there's popular opposition among the membership. But I'm not sure I can take this level of incompetence and toxicity any longer. I expect he'd win another election now so it may even be counter productive and further cement him, but I'm actually angry right now that they could be so shamefully thick at such an important occasion. The party is a public joke, not a serious opposition. More vocal opposition within the party is needed rather than the current unnamed press briefing and whispering. What he did today is the equivalent of Nigel Farage reading out of Mein Kampf. "It was a joke, check the context!" is missing the point spectacularly.
 
My hatred for the Tories has just multiplied again by a hundred with the cutting of funding for student nurses. Absolute fecking scum, and if you support them or voted for them then you are scum too. You are literally a fecking cancer to humanity. I hope you and all of your relatives get horrendous illnesses and get the terrible treatment that you deserve.

I'm going on a fecking rampage, I'll see you evil cnuts in hell.
How much have they been cut by? Can't find any actual figures in the early reports I've seen.
 
Changed it from a grant to a loan
I believe the unis asked for this as they are massively oversubscribed courses and this way they can increase numbers
Not sure that argument follows in the sense that it would be the government paying the grant not the uni right? These courses must be capacity- constrained, presumably being fairly hands-on, so not sure how the unis gain as they'll surely have to add teaching resources.
 
How much have they been cut by? Can't find any actual figures in the early reports I've seen.

Cheesy posted about this the other day, and the detail suggested that the move might actually be a blessing in disguise if anything.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...orne-considers-axeing-student-nurse-bursaries

At a time when the NHS is already in a difficult situation. Are the Tories actively trying to destroy it?

From the article:

Universities UK and the Council of Deans of Health, which speaks for university faculties in nursing and midwifery, have been pressing the Treasury to axe bursaries. They have argued that doing so could lead to an increase in the number of trainee nurses because the existing public funding of them puts an artificial cap on how many can be trained, because HEE commissions a set number of training places each year from British universities.

They claim that the huge demand to study nursing – there are between five and 10 applicants for each of the 20,000 places a year – means switching to student loans would not lead to a fall in trainees. “The overdemand for places is so great that [the Treasury thinks] it will be relatively easy to land,” said a source familiar with its thinking.

Universities have also complained that they lose money because the amount HEE pays them for each student nursing place is 8%-12% less than it costs them to provide courses, which run for much more of the year than most degree courses and so are more expensive to put on.

The Department of Health is thought to be relaxed about replacing bursaries with loans because it is concerned that too many publicly funded student nurses do not go on to enter the profession after graduating.

Dame Jessica Corner, chair of the Council of Deans of Health, last month criticised the existing system of funding nurses as “fragile and vulnerable” to pressures affecting the NHS. Nursing students also suffered “quite a lot of hardship” because the bursaries were “relatively underfunded” compared with undergraduates who relied on student loans, she said.

The RCN is also concerned that bursaries leave many student nurses with too little money to live on.
 
Not sure that argument follows in the sense that it would be the government paying the grant not the uni right? These courses must be capacity- constrained, presumably being fairly hands-on, so not sure how the unis gain as they'll surely have to add teaching resources.
I think their is a bigger pot of money available via the loans hence they can increase teaching capacity... Not certain but two of my aunts are nurses and said it would be a good thing
Apparently 9 applicants per place and a shortage of nurses so they need to up numbers quickly
 
Cheesy posted about this the other day, and the detail suggested that the move might actually be a blessing in disguise if anything.
Can see both sides of the argument, but I guess if you're a nurse who has got a coveted place on a course, having no grant isn't great.
How do this compare to teachers (albeit the PGCE is one year)?
 
I think their is a bigger pot of money available via the loans hence they can increase teaching capacity... Not certain but two of my aunts are nurses and said it would be a good thing
Apparently 9 applicants per place and a shortage of nurses so they need to up numbers quickly
Interesting your aunts are supportive- might make rowem implode though. How skilled is nursing as a job? Serious question. I know they obviously deal with a lot of shit, literally at times, but are they say, a quarter fictor, as it were, or higher/lower?
 
Interesting your aunts are supportive- might make rowem implode though. How skilled is nursing as a job? Serious question. I know they obviously deal with a lot of shit, literally at times, but are they say, a quarter fictor, as it were, or higher/lower?
Nursing at its most basic level is now considered a degree course I think so I'd say very skilled ( especially when people progress and specialise... My aunts have both postponed retirement whilst their hospitals try and find somebody senior / qualified enough to fill their roles)
 
Nursing at its most basic level is now considered a degree course I think so I'd say very skilled ( especially when people progress and specialise... My aunts have both postponed retirement whilst their hospitals try and find somebody senior / qualified enough to fill their roles)
Damn phone- fictor should've been doctor...I guess however skilled they are, we're going to need a load more of them in the years to come.
In happier news, I saw the higher rate tax threshold edged up to 43k.
 
It's just so incredibly depressing to watch the Labour party these days. If they really only want to appeal to their own hardcore supporters, they'll end up as relevant as the Green Party.
 
It's just so incredibly depressing to watch the Labour party these days. If they really only want to appeal to their own hardcore supporters, they'll end up as relevant as the Green Party.
In fairness I'm impressed with just how unelectable they are making themselves

Comrade corbyn questioning shoot to kill and the legality of the drone strike on Jihadi John
And his mukka chairman John giving us socialism with an I pad plus quoting Mao
Putting red ken onto the Trident team
A shockingly bad responce to the defence review and the Syria debate to come...
All self inflicted in the last two weeks
Omnishambles indeed
 
In fairness I'm impressed with just how unelectable they are making themselves

Comrade corbyn questioning shoot to kill and the legality of the drone strike on Jihadi John
And his mukka chairman John giving us socialism with an I pad plus quoting Mao
Putting red ken onto the Trident team
A shockingly bad responce to the defence review and the Syria debate to come...
All self inflicted in the last two weeks
Omnishambles indeed
The horror...the horror.
 
I haven't been so depressed about politics since Thatcher's insane battle to put the lower classes in their place, even it took Hitleresque damage to do it.
Not because the Tories are in, this lot are a very mild strain of obnoxiousness compared to her, but because Labour have so utterly collapsed.
 
latest


"You can actually pinpoint the second where his faith in a Corbyn-led Labour party rips in half."
 
Why do the MPs occasionally just stand up and instantly sit straight back down in the Commons? Not all of them do it, but they look stupid.
 
The problem with Corbyn's stance on intervention is that there is no way to turn it into a short term political win. If we extend our airstrikes and there is a retaliatory terrorist attack he can hardly go around proclaiming "I told you so".

It's incredibly concerning that on an issue as important/complicated as Syria and ISIS it is still reduced to knee-jerk politics.
 
Why do the MPs occasionally just stand up and instantly sit straight back down in the Commons? Not all of them do it, but they look stupid.

Stretching those expenses-fiddling legs.
 
Why do the MPs occasionally just stand up and instantly sit straight back down in the Commons? Not all of them do it, but they look stupid.
Letting the Speaker know they want to speak.
 
Releasing all the BS.
 
Letting the Speaker know they want to speak.

The speaker was quite good yesterday, 'Anyone shouting can forget about being called to ask questions' and 'Silence, I want to hear about the contents of this book'.

Some guy on telly today comparing Mao's little red book with the treasury note saying there is no money left as rank cock-ups, a thought that had already occurred to me.
 
The speaker was quite good yesterday, 'Anyone shouting can forget about being called to ask questions' and 'Silence, I want to hear about the contents of this book'.

Some guy on telly today comparing Mao's little red book with the treasury note saying there is no money left as rank cock-ups, a thought that had already occurred to me.
He always sounds like he's mid-heave on the toilet.

I'd agree on the comparison as they both emphasised the key attack line of the Tories and gave them a handy prop to do it with - the note with Labour profligacy and the book with hardline leftism. The Labour party is fecked, basically.
 
The problem with Corbyn's stance on intervention is that there is no way to turn it into a short term political win. If we extend our airstrikes and there is a retaliatory terrorist attack he can hardly go around proclaiming "I told you so".
With any normal politician I'd agree with you but I'm not so sure he wouldn't say something like that - or worse

Mind you I am hoping somebody quotes Mao at him / Mcdonnell today

War can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.
 
Labour can't win in their response to this. Cameron has in no way laid forward a credible justification, just more emotional justification.

Don't back the strikes and it'll be attacked by the Tories and the media left right and centre. Corbyn is going to have to go against his best judgement and balance voting for strikes as a lesser evil than the damage it will do to the party but do so in such a way that damages the tories when they feck it up.
 
Labour can't win in their response to this. Cameron has in no way laid forward a credible justification, just more emotional justification.

Don't back the strikes and it'll be attacked by the Tories and the media left right and centre. Corbyn is going to have to go against his best judgement and balance voting for strikes as a lesser evil than the damage it will do to the party but do so in such a way that damages the tories when they feck it up.

He just needs to allow a free vote
Enough of his own MP's will defy him anyway if he tries to force the issue so the resolution is going to pass
At least with a free vote he does not have to back down in his own position and it does not look so much like an internal labour fight when the MP's that are going to back action (or avoid the vote) do so.
Its been obvious for a while that a free vote was the only way out with any dignity - its just of he fancies starting the civil war in Labour now or not that will determine his action I think.
 
He just needs to allow a free vote
Enough of his own MP's will defy him anyway if he tries to force the issue so the resolution is going to pass
At least with a free vote he does not have to back down in his own position and it does not look so much like an internal labour fight when the MP's that are going to back action (or avoid the vote) do so.
Its been obvious for a while that a free vote was the only way out with any dignity - its just of he fancies starting the civil war in Labour now or not that will determine his action I think.

That'll stay play out as a defeat and rebellion in the press and we know that's all that matters. The public want blood and Corbyn will just be viewed as weak on security.