It's so baffling.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It's so baffling.
Cheers mate.
You make some very good points there, especially the point about his football not being boring. I've never found his football boring, and some of his previous sides have scored goals for fun. I'm sure his previous Chelsea side scored over 90 league goals one year? When he parks the bus, it's because it's needed at that particular time. We won the Champions league in 2008 on the back of similar tactics in previous rounds, nothing wrong with it at all.
I think that the only opposition to his appointment comes from his personality and the fact that he's so disliked - that's certainly the reason I don't want him here, although I do feel myself being swayed with each dreadful performance we have ATM.
It is with a (overly dramatic) heavy heart that I have decided to change my vote from 'no' to 'yes'. Whilst I agree with (and have long-subscribed to) the long list of reasons against having Jose as manager, my position has changed for the following reasons:
I'm caught a bit between whether the next manager should be appointed in the summer so they can have a clean slate to start from, or if we should act to try to make a strong go at the increasingly unlikely top 4 finish this season. But either way, I've now come across to the Mourinho camp, and as a result I hate myself even more than I did before
So, as I said at the start, very overly dramatic
- I do think that LVG's time is up - I really wanted him to succeed and retire on a high (that's not a dig at him being Dutch btw), but things are not getting any better, there don't appear to be any new ideas, and the plan he has had (which made him a great improvement on Moyes, who seemed to not know what he was doing, or where he was going - including when he was finally booted-out the door) isn't working and doesn't appear to show signs of progress. For a man of his age as well, this whole situation is verging on becoming very unpleasant indeed, and another season won't do anyone any good.
- Having accepted the above point, the next manager should be as close to the top draw as possible given the mess we've had since Sir Alex retired. We haven't got unlimited time to get things right, so our next move should be the strongest possible move we can make, which means going for the best manager we can. Pep has gone to City (we all know it), Ancelotti has gone to Bayern, Klopp and Pochettino aren't available, and Simeone is unlikely to leave Atletico - so your winner by default: Mourinho.
- But mostly, I don't want Giggs as manager. If the club really is as it seems set on making Giggs' first full time management job be the Manchester United job, then I'm not on board with that decision. I don't see any logic there, but see many, many negatives and risks associated with that move. This isn't an anti-Giggs feeling as he is probably my favourite ever player, I'd feel the same if it was G. Nev, Butt, Ole or even Keane in the frame (all of whom have more managerial experience than Giggs), but the standard to be United manager has to be very high in my view. I don't want us appointing an inexperienced manager, regardless of who he is. Mourinho is increasingly feeling like the only possible option to prevent the club going down the Giggs route, so in that case then again I'd support appointing Mourinho by default.
I'm caught a bit between whether the next manager should be appointed in the summer so they can have a clean slate to start from, or if we should act to try to make a strong go at the increasingly unlikely top 4 finish this season. But either way, I've now come across to the Mourinho camp, and as a result I hate myself even more than I did before
So, as I said at the start, very overly dramatic
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Excellent post.
It is with a (overly dramatic) heavy heart that I have decided to change my vote from 'no' to 'yes'. Whilst I agree with, and have long-subscribed to the long list of reasons against having Jose as manager, my position has changed for the following reasons:
- I do think that LVG's time is up - I really wanted him to succeed and retire on a high (that's not a dig at him being Dutch btw), but things are not getting any better, there don't appear to be any new ideas, and the plan he has had (which made him a great improvement on Moyes, who seemed to not know what he was doing, or where he was going - including when he was finally booted-out the door) isn't working and doesn't appear to show signs of progress. For a man of his age as well, this whole situation is verging on becoming very unpleasant indeed, and another season won't do anyone any good.
- Having accepted the above point, the next manager should be as close to the top draw as possible given the mess we've had since Sir Alex retired. We haven't got unlimited time to get things right, so our next move should be the strongest possible move we can make, which means going for the best manager we can. Pep has gone to City (we all know it), Ancelotti has gone to Bayern, Klopp and Pochettino aren't available, and Simeone is unlikely to leave Atletico - so your winner by default: Mourinho.
- But mostly, I don't want Giggs as manager. If the club really is as it seems set on making Giggs' first full time management job be the Manchester United job, then I'm not on board with that decision. I don't see any logic there, but see many, many negatives and risks associated with that move. This isn't an anti-Giggs feeling as he is probably my favourite ever player, I'd feel the same if it was G. Nev, Butt, Ole or even Keane in the frame (all of whom have more managerial experience than Giggs), but the standard to be United manager has to be very high in my view. I don't want us appointing an inexperienced manager, regardless of who he is. Mourinho is increasingly feeling like the only possible option to prevent the club going down the Giggs route, so in that case then again I'd support appointing Mourinho by default.
I'm caught a bit between whether the next manager should be appointed in the summer so they can have a clean slate to start from, or if we should act to try to make a strong go at the increasingly unlikely top 4 finish this season. But either way, I've now come across to the Mourinho camp, and as a result I hate myself even more than I did before
So, as I said at the start, very overly dramatic
I wouldn't be Mourinho's biggest fan but well said.
Gotta agree with you.
No one. It's Pep if we can get him, or a few select others who'll be damn near impossible to get this quickly. Mourinho is the perfect option, and yet we're not going for it. We're worried about his attitudes and his actions to in the dressing room/to players/ to other managers. But realistically we can't be picky. Time is running out and there aren't many options left.
He's wanted the job for years. He's hungry, passionate and a great manager. His football isn't shit. Sure he has problems, but they can be worked on. He's the best option out there, and for it's worth, if we got him now he'd probably save our season.
Just HAS to be Jose Mourinho.
No idea if there is any truth in this but if there is then Woodward needs a kick out the door. http://www.espn.co.uk/soccer/blog/m...light-zone-while-barcelona-win-as-madrid-slip what is true these days? it seems every newspaper posts anything that they believe will receive a click or 2. It could be that there is no truth in the story but who the fcuk knows.
There probably is. I've been hearing that story over and over. Vangle offered his resignation, and Woody said no twice to save face as it would look bad on him. Terrible long term planning, and no idea how to run a football club.
Maybe we get rid of him, make LVG the youth director and bring back Gill.
It is with a (overly dramatic) heavy heart that I have decided to change my vote from 'no' to 'yes'. Whilst I agree with, and have long-subscribed to the long list of reasons against having Jose as manager, my position has changed for the following reasons:
- I do think that LVG's time is up - I really wanted him to succeed and retire on a high (that's not a dig at him being Dutch btw), but things are not getting any better, there don't appear to be any new ideas, and the plan he has had (which made him a great improvement on Moyes, who seemed to not know what he was doing, or where he was going - including when he was finally booted-out the door) isn't working and doesn't appear to show signs of progress. For a man of his age as well, this whole situation is verging on becoming very unpleasant indeed, and another season won't do anyone any good.
- Having accepted the above point, the next manager should be as close to the top draw as possible given the mess we've had since Sir Alex retired. We haven't got unlimited time to get things right, so our next move should be the strongest possible move we can make, which means going for the best manager we can. Pep has gone to City (we all know it), Ancelotti has gone to Bayern, Klopp and Pochettino aren't available, and Simeone is unlikely to leave Atletico - so your winner by default: Mourinho.
- But mostly, I don't want Giggs as manager. If the club really is as it seems set on making Giggs' first full time management job be the Manchester United job, then I'm not on board with that decision. I don't see any logic there, but see many, many negatives and risks associated with that move. This isn't an anti-Giggs feeling as he is probably my favourite ever player, I'd feel the same if it was G. Nev, Butt, Ole or even Keane in the frame (all of whom have more managerial experience than Giggs), but the standard to be United manager has to be very high in my view. I don't want us appointing an inexperienced manager, regardless of who he is. Mourinho is increasingly feeling like the only possible option to prevent the club going down the Giggs route, so in that case then again I'd support appointing Mourinho by default.
I'm caught a bit between whether the next manager should be appointed in the summer so they can have a clean slate to start from, or if we should act to try to make a strong go at the increasingly unlikely top 4 finish this season. But either way, I've now come across to the Mourinho camp, and as a result I hate myself even more than I did before
So, as I said at the start, very overly dramatic
Agree with all of that. Don't like it but this is where we are.
Personally I would love to see the end of LVG(even though I backed him at the start), Rooney(not top class anymore), and ED Woodward (Joe 90), along with the Glazers(money grabbers). In reality I cannot see the Glazers going anytime soon, Woodward is their favourite guy, so he looks ok for now. LVG is on a knife edge so he could be gone anytime. And as for Rooney, I believe his chances would be limited under a new manager.
I'm still on the no side somehow ...
There really are no obvious alternatives though, is there?
I dont dislike the football his teams have played. I guess i just them cynical.
He's pretty cynical too really, the lack of faith in youth or players like de bruyne.
The lack of patience and the reliance on athletes, more than footballers.
And it just seems a pretty big departure from what we have been doing for the last year and a half,
There really are no obvious alternatives though, is there?
I dont dislike the football his teams have played. I guess i just them cynical.
He's pretty cynical too really, the lack of faith in youth or players like de bruyne.
The lack of patience and the reliance on athletes, more than footballers.
And it just seems a pretty big departure from what we have been doing for the last year and a half,
I would take him now just so he has a "Klopp honeymoon period" and secures top 4.
LVG is not going to become a youth director he is retiring. So he is not a long term option for United anyways. I would give him a long hefty handshake and tell him to fcuk off. And take Jose in right away .
This club was going at 90 miles an hour until those damn Glazers came in and left it in a situation of having to pay back an enormous amount of debt. Old Trafford had been extended to 69,000 I think? and surrounding property had been bought up with the vision of making the south stand a mirror image of the New north stand. We had the best manager on the planet in SAF. And then the Glazers came. The rest is history.
JM was once a huge fan of Rooney and made several offers for him. I Wonder what his stance will be on Rooney if he becomes manager in a few days.
It's would be a massive call for him. As LVG has found out, placing ones entire strategy around the modern day Rooney will get you sacked, and Mourinho will have to hit the ground running.
I think we'll see what similar to when he returned to Chelsea: he offered no favours to any players from his first era; all had to immediatly prove their worth or they were out.
If he did want to remove Rooney, would Woodwood back him?
Same question applies for Guardiola and Giggs.
It's would be a massive call for him. As LVG has found out, placing ones entire strategy around the modern day Rooney will get you sacked, and Mourinho will have to hit the ground running.
I think we'll see what similar to when he returned to Chelsea: he offered no favours to any players from his first era; all had to immediatly prove their worth or they were out.
If he did want to remove Rooney, would Woodwood back him?
Same question applies for Guardiola and Giggs.
I think him actually having the balls to kick out a player with the brand a name like Rooney's holds is one of the few reasons I'd want him here. Still, I doubt if even Mourinho has the power to do so. I fear we are pretty much stuck with him until his contract runs down.
If we have a chance to get Mourinho right now the club and Woodward would be crazy to say no. Do only reason for any hesitation of this idea is if we have Pep lined up. Who I think btw is City bound.
A possible scenario is that Woodward is working behind the scenes with the appointment of a new manager and maybe one or two new players. He probably want to introduce all of them at the same time in order to avoid to much circus. All this can take time because of contract negotiation regarding all involved, including giving LvG a retirement package he will accept.
Keeping LvG only makes sense if our chosen candidate have turned us down or want to take over in the summer. For me that doesn't make sense but in today's world everything seems to be possible.
Letting Giggs become a interim or permanent manager must be out of the question. Otherwise I officially declare Woody and the owners totally crazy and my hope for this club is gone. It's so unlikely in my world that I don't know if I would laugh or cry if this happen.
I have always liked JM. He's intelligent and a good communicator. He's a proven winner in every league and environment. He can handle superstars and big egos but he also knows how to squeeze out the best from water carriers. Similar to Sir Alex. The downside of the Mourinho coin is his temperament and his ability to let the world circle around his person. Maybe he has matured over the last years and learn to cool down his willingness to always be in the limelight. Another problem is his behavior against other manager and staff. Hopefully he has learnt from previous mistakes and want to change his approach, especially when he lose.
The way he set up the Chelsea team in the 2004/05 and 05/06 season was pure magic. Probably one of the most effective teams in the PL history. Extremely solid defensively and very lethal going forward. His version of 433 is still one of the best I have seen. United today needs a new CB like Stones, a creative midfielder who can shot and dribble and two new forwards. Lukaku would be ideal together with a pacy right winger.
So all in all. Bring him in!!
A possible scenario is that Woodward is working behind the scenes with the appointment of a new manager and maybe one or two new players. He probably want to introduce all of them at the same time in order to avoid to much circus. All this can take time because of contract negotiation regarding all involved, including giving LvG a retirement package he will accept.
Keeping LvG only makes sense if our chosen candidate have turned us down or want to take over in the summer. For me that doesn't make sense but in today's world everything seems to be possible.
Letting Giggs become a interim or permanent manager must be out of the question. Otherwise I officially declare Woody and the owners totally crazy and my hope for this club is gone. It's so unlikely in my world that I don't know if I would laugh or cry if this happen.
I have always liked JM. He's intelligent and a good communicator. He's a proven winner in every league and environment. He can handle superstars and big egos but he also knows how to squeeze out the best from water carriers. Similar to Sir Alex. The downside of the Mourinho coin is his temperament and his ability to let the world circle around his person. Maybe he has matured over the last years and learn to cool down his willingness to always be in the limelight. Another problem is his behavior against other manager and staff. Hopefully he has learnt from previous mistakes and want to change his approach, especially when he lose.
The way he set up the Chelsea team in the 2004/05 and 05/06 season was pure magic. Probably one of the most effective teams in the PL history. Extremely solid defensively and very lethal going forward. His version of 433 is still one of the best I have seen. United today needs a new CB like Stones, a creative midfielder who can shot and dribble and two new forwards. Lukaku would be ideal together with a pacy right winger.
So all in all. Bring him in!!
LVG was a proven winner too.
I have some doubts about Mourinho. His behaviour this season has been absolutely awful so it is hard to believe he has matured. The evidence does suggest that after 2 or 3 seasons at a club he implodes.
3rd, 1st then a total disaster this season at Chelsea is a good record but not that good given 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 6th and 3rd place finishes in the seasons since he left. Similarly at Real Madrid his record was ok but nothing special; admittedly tough competition in La Liga. Put another way, his outstanding successes came earlier in his career (as did LVG's)
I have some doubts about Mourinho. His behaviour this season has been absolutely awful so it is hard to believe he has matured. The evidence does suggest that after 2 or 3 seasons at a club he implodes.
3rd, 1st then a total disaster this season at Chelsea is a good record but not that good given 2nd, 3rd, 1st, 6th and 3rd place finishes in the seasons since he left. Similarly at Real Madrid his record was ok but nothing special; admittedly tough competition in La Liga. Put another way, his outstanding successes came earlier in his career (as did LVG's)
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You are just contradicting yourself. Do things better or worse when he leaves?
Get him in on a 3 year contract like Van Gaal was and it should time it just right for Ancelotti.
Its either Giggs or Mourinho.
Christ I hope he'd have a better honeymoon than Klopp is having.
The problem is that you are a Liverpool and Barcelona fan.
Highly unlikely that you will be impartial regarding Mourinho.
Opposition fans are salivating at the thought of us hiring Ryan Giggs.
If we did get Mourinho it might make our matches with Arsenal more interesting again.
Really?
If its true that the board are insistent on wanting Giggs and the next long term United Manager than why not take a punt on Mourinho for the next 3 years. Whats the worst that could happen?
Surely we cant play much worse than we already are. The likelihood is that Mourinho will get us back to winning trophies or if not he will take us close and he can do this while Giggs gets another few years experience under a top manager. If worse comes to worst and Mourninho completely flops then he leaves and Giggs takes over.
I cant see why we aren't going for him right now. This season needs to be rescued. 1 or 2 more losses and top 4 is very unlikely. Sign him up!
Surely we cant play much worse than we already are. The likelihood is that Mourinho will get us back to winning trophies or if not he will take us close and he can do this while Giggs gets another few years experience under a top manager. If worse comes to worst and Mourninho completely flops then he leaves and Giggs takes over.
I cant see why we aren't going for him right now. This season needs to be rescued. 1 or 2 more losses and top 4 is very unlikely. Sign him up!
Its such a simple question.
Should have been given the job after Fergie retired, now it's a no-brainer, regardless of who is available.
Excellent, so it is. I'll dumb it right down for you as you're obviously finding it really really hard to work out something so incredibly simple.
He makes it bad, then goes, someone else comes in and makes it better.
If you're having any trouble with anything else, let me know, happy to help.
Are you saying that he's left a bad situation at each club or do you just mean this season?
I really doubt we'd have handled Fergie's retirement much better with the PLC. This thing is a whole lot bigger than the Glazers.
We probably wouldn't have been so stingy without the Glazers during Fergies later years (due to the massive loan repayments) and he could have left a decent squad. None of the 'value for money' stuff
I bet he cries himself to sleep seeing how much we've spent after him.
Imagine if he splashed the same cash as we have since
Yeah, but if you feck up the appointment of the next manager it might not matter that much.
Frankly, some of the stuff we had going on during Fergie's last years wasn't just about money. It's not like he had to sign cheap midfielders. He just didn't sign any.
Imagine if he spent the Ronaldo money on Silva and Aguero...City would still be sitting on 0 titles and god knows how many in a row we would have wonI bet he cries himself to sleep seeing how much we've spent after him.
Imagine if he splashed the same cash as we have since
exactly. grrr
wonder if he regrets it.