[RoadTrip]

The better team won. Nothing else needs saying. They were far more cohesive and better than the sum of their parts.

In a nutshell, that's pretty much the right summary.

 

[Ash_G]

I doubt they pass it around at the back just for the sheer joy of it - I believe that the midfielders and WBs need to do a better job of making themselves available - but that side of the game all comes from the front.

If you have Hernandez constantly on the shoulder of the defender like he should be, it forces the opposition back line deeper and creates space for the rest of the team.

I think they pass it around there because none of the three (although Blackett has potential) are particularly good passing defenders nor do they look to advance that well, particularly so Smalling. That just means that their strikers know they don't really need to press them, they can drop off and sit on our midfielders which is what happened and happened against Valencia. This makes it hard for the midfielders to do anything because they just don't have the time as they effectively have 1/2 more players pressing them then they typiclly would.

This in turn forces Mata deeper as well and just has a general knock on impact. Similarly for me with the wingbacks bar Januzaj who don't carry the ball with intent, the ball kept coming back inside where there was just no pace.

 

[jojojo]

Someone needs to make a compliation of Nani's performance in the second half because I've seen plenty of people say this now but I'm quite sure along with Januzaj he was our best player on the pitch (and it surprised me ). Have I completely lost my marbles?

I thought the forwards disappeared after Herrera went off, and all connections in our play broke down. But Nani I felt was one of the better ones particularly after Southampton's Swansea's second goal, when he came back (and more central!) a few times looking for the ball and running with it.

Edit - See the strikethrough.

 

[RoadTrip]

It is not the first game in my head, it is the 39th prem game since SAF left and we can have been looking at the squad this whole time I believe. That special era is over and we need to assess as objectively as possible.

That said, we should all trust LVG to do a good job building this team. I just think calls for united for the title after a few pre season wins are ridiculous

While there are a few gnumpties saying that the bulk of us want top 4, and for a club as large as and with as much spending power as us, isn't unrealistic. Unfortunately, the club have let it get to such a stage where even that is looking like light years away.

 

[Roopea]

After I saw the lineup, I just knew we wouldn't win (unless Swansea make a lot of mistakes) but didn't expect to lose like this.

Surprised Reece James didn't play LWB with Ashley Young as RWB instead of Lingard.

The substitution of Herrera was odd to say the least, and anyone could see that Fletcher was diabolical today and should have been subbed off instead.

I love Hernandez, but his time is up and he is simply not pulling his weight anymore. The team just lacks so much pace and it's all rather predictable for the opposition. Also, Fletcher should not be anywhere near as a first choice starter for us.

We have to spend, and we have to spend BIG in the coming week or two or we will face years outside the CL just like Liverpool.

 

[PedroMendez]

Thought this may interest you guys.

Tareq Al-Jalahmah, one of BeIn Sports pundits, just tweeted that the one and only David Moyes, who is also a BeIn Sports pundit, told him off-air that now most people will blame him for the loss, for the deadwood and average players he left behind.

moyes isnt in charge anymore. No reason to blame him for anything. The problems with the squad were well known and yet nobody acted accordingly. can gaal/Woody are to blame

 

[Gannicus]

What the feck are you on with Nani. There were about 8 players worse out there today.

8 players worse? I don't think so.

De Gea, no problem.
Jones was actually solid.
Smalling a bit meh, but can't be blamed for either goal.
Blackett has to be cut some slack as it's his first prem match.
Young was okay, though began to rely too heavily on crossing.
Januzaj was good.
Fletcher was innocuous, though I wouldn't say poor. (Massive upgrade required in his position.)
Herrera was wasn't poor, but didn't distinguish himself.
Mata was meh, but failed to track back on Ki who helped himself to a neat finish.
Rooney was a bright spots but still underperformed.

I don't know why some of you are focused on my comments on Nani. I never wrote that he alone cost us the game. What I'm saying Hernandez and Nani contributed nothing. Nothing more.

Two problems: three starters were out today and after 8 or years we still gave yet to deal with the absence of a true defensive midfielder.

Our transition defense relies on a strong midfielder which we don't have. Fellaini and Fletcher are squad players, not starters for a club which aspires to a top four finish.

 

[RoadTrip]

I thought the forwards disappeared after Herrera went off, and all connections in our play broke down. But Nani I felt was one of the better ones particularly after Southampton's second goal, when he came back (and more central!) a few times looking for the ball and running with it.

I think you need a rest, mate.

 

[PSingh]

Our squad is apparently unbalanced yet I see us doing nothing to make it balanced. We need signings and we need them this week.

You hit the nail on the head. I understand that van Gaal wanted to assess the squad because there's no point buying players if we don't actually need them or they're not an upgrade on what we already have.

I hope now he has seen enough and knows exactly where we need to strengthen. I'm sure we will bring a couple of players in. It's not all doom and gloom.

 

[Walrus]

I think they pass it around there because none of the three (although Blackett has potential) are particularly good passing defenders nor do they look to advance that well, particularly so Smalling. That just means that their strikers know they don't really need to press them, they can drop off and sit on our midfielders which is what happened and happened against Valencia. This makes it hard for the midfielders to do anything because they just don't have the time as they effectively have 1/2 more players pressing them then they typiclly would.

This in turn forces Mata deeper as well and just has a general knock on impact. Similarly for me with the wingbacks bar Januzaj who don't carry the ball with intent, the ball kept coming back inside where there was just no pace.

The one thing I would change in the 3-5-2 (well, not the one thing, but you know what I mean) would be someone other than Smalling in the middle. Normally the middle defender is the one who pushes up and potentially joins the midfield. I think Evans or Blackett are best for that.

 

[Penna]

As we were leaving our seats, some crazy man near me positioned himself so that he could hurl abuse at LVG as he came out of the dugout. He heard it too, he looked at the crazy man.

Young was very frustrating to watch today, so much playing back, so little sense of purpose.

 

[Mick1991]

BT are atrocious, not nice seeing Steve Mc in that good of a mood.

Cert of a penalty too, wasn't looking? So bloody what, he turned his back and threw his arm out.

 

[Cletus]

over-reaction galore....first game of the season ffs. The more i browse through the posts the more i believe that this forum has been taken over by 10 yr olds

So many spoilt fans it's ridiculous.

I haven't read every single post, but I'm interested to know if you are bashing other people's opinions what is the reaction of a "proper" fan to such an extreme anti-climax?

I am totally gutted watching that, because I had high expectations and spent the match slightly numb but still had hopes until the final whistle, which were dashed. Next match can't come soon enough.

 

[Burrow]

Not too worried personally. We all knew before the game that van Gaal is usually a slow starter. Adding to that, we missed Rafael, Shaw, Evans, Carrick and either of Welbeck/van Persie, all of whom (in my opinion) would be a part of our strongest XI. Would anyone really expect anything but atleast 1 or 2 goals conceded if you were told before the game that we were going to play a back 4 of Jones - Smalling - Blackett - Young?

We allowed them two chances, and they scored on both of them. The result is terrible, and people have every right to feel aggrived and down right angry, but both of the systems played today showed that we're able to controll (not dominate) a game, and once settled, I would imagine the games will have a different outcome.

 

[Mister Ed]

Thought this may interest you guys.

Tareq Al-Jalahmah, one of BeIn Sports pundits, just tweeted that the one and only David Moyes, who is also a BeIn Sports pundit, told him off-air that now most people will blame him for the loss, for the deadwood and average players he left behind.

He is right about one thing, it is always the fault of somebody else but never the club. The decision making at this club, over the last couple of years, not just last year, has been absolutley terrible and the disaster last season is not just the fault of Moyes, it is the result of an entire organisation that on sportive area is just woefull. SAF really carried us on his back, but everybody knows the United teams after 2008 have never been up to scratch and I'am starting to believe the lack of spending and weird transfers isn't just SAF decision either, it is a bigger issue transcending the function of manager, maybay even that of a CEO. We are puppets in the Glazer circus, which was more or less under control with SAF but now that he is gone we are definitley out of control, becoming a joke of a club and Moyes couldn't do anything about it, neither will LVG, yea he'll do a better job than Moyes but with this squad and the weird circus running it, we'll struggle to get top 4. It is just a mess, a total mess we are in.

 

[jojojo]

I think you need a rest, mate.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

So many spoilt fans it's ridiculous.

Man City started terribly last season, they didn't end up doing too badly

Yes, but they have the players to get better, we still need to make signings or it won't happen. 3 signings and the injured players back and we will be fine. No signings and constant injuries forget it.

 

[markhrad]

Nani at least tried to penetrate their defense. He was by no means poor especially in relation to others, anyway, he is about to go so his critics should just relax

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Looking at how we've spent money over the last 4 years, and comparing it with how much we've laughed at city's spending, They have bought extremely fecking well when it comes to their spine players... the cnuts.

Why can we never find these players. Them and Chelsea just go out and get who they want. We just brag about the money they club makes and how many fans we have. You don't get a trophy for that.

 

[Godfather]

8 players worse? I don't think so.

De Gea, no problem.
Jones was actually solid.
Smalling a bit meh, but can't be blamed for either goal.
Blackett has to be cut some slack as it's his first prem match.
Young was okay, though began to rely too heavily on crossing.
Januzaj was good.
Fletcher was innocuous, though I wouldn't say poor. (Massive upgrade required in his position.)
Herrera was wasn't poor, but didn't distinguish himself.
Mata was meh, but failed to track back on Ki who helped himself to a neat finish.
Rooney was a bright spots but still underperformed.

I don't know why some of you are focused on my comments on Nani. I never wrote that he alone cost us the game. What I'm saying Hernandez and Nani contributed nothing. Nothing more.

Two problems: three starters were out today and after 8 or years we still gave yet to deal with the absence of a true defensive midfielder.

Our transition defense relies on a strong midfielder which we don't have. Fellaini and Fletcher are squad players, not starters for a club which aspires to a top four finish.

So you wouldnt say Fletcher was poor and Mata was only "meh"? Young was okay? That really says it all and ends any further discussions with you about anything related to football.

 

[032Devil]

Sell Herrara. Buy Cleverly.

 

[Kayo]

Swansea were good, fully deserved win.

As for us? Well been saying it all summer, van Gaal is no miracle worker, you could have Jose as his assistant and Wenger as tea boy and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. The squad has needed gutting for 3 or 4 years, we are miles, absolute miles off the top teams. 4 or 5 Swansea players would get in our side and that should set the alarm bells off to the board.

I still say we will be battling for 4th if we can get some new faces in and van Gaal will turn things around long term. All depends on the board and money men tho....

Not crucifying individuals, did enough of that last year, felt sorry for Young having to play left back but that is the state of our squad and I am amazed nobody has done anything about it.

 

[noodlehair]

The annoying thing is this will drive the transfer muppetism into an absolute frenzy...but it's not the lack of buying players that's the problem. I mean letting our squad stagnate is a part of the problem, but that explains dropping away from being champions/title contenders. It doesn't explain losing routinely at home to teams like Swansea without even creating a single decent chance in the entire game. Teams with far worse players than us show more character than that.

We paid £42m for Mata for example, and he spent the whole game playing like a powder puff version of Scott Parker. We paid £30m for Rooney and he spent the whole game playing panicked sideways passes to Swansea players despite the fact there was almost never a Swansea player within 5 yards of him...sorry but if you're a £30m player and the other team gives you that much time on the ball, that should basically be an automatic 3 points in itself. Our supposed better players don't look like good players trapped in a poor team, if anything they look like the problem. Whenever there is a bright spark it comes from a youngster or someone who's been sitting on the fringes for a while.

There's no point spending big money on supposedly world class players if we can't even get the ones we do have to do basic things correctly.

On the game itself...I don't see the point in ever starting Hernandez anymore. He's lost his ability to stretch opposition teams. We made a mistake getting him to bulk up a bit, because all that's happened is he's just as crap at holding on to the ball but has lost his ability to burst away from defenders. He's a completely pointless player now. Janujaz would have done a better job in his role.

Also not sure why we took Herrera off and not Fletcher. Only one of the two of them was passing the ball effectively and it certainly wasn't Fletcher. Didn't get the point in punting the ball up to Fellaini if we weren't even going to give other players time to get up and support him either. Just the usual go a goal down and descend into a mix of cowardness and brainless stupidity.

We must also be the only team on the planet who start playing the ball SLOWER as soon as the pre season ends. Seriously, in the time we take faffing around before playing the ball 10 yards forwards, a wounded snail could complete the London Marathon. Again, this isn't a lack of signings thing. There are Championship sides who don't have this issue. I bet even Blackpool dont have this issue.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Can't remember who posted it but they were spot on in the regard that Mourinho was a genius is selling Mata. He's a player that unless the circumstances and players around him are completely perfect and suited to him, he'll be caught out and look average.

Then he will either have to sell him or make sure he has the right players round him. The latter I hope.

 

[Ash_G]

The one thing I would change in the 3-5-2 (well, not the one thing, but you know what I mean) would be someone other than Smalling in the middle. Normally the middle defender is the one who pushes up and potentially joins the midfield. I think Evans or Blackett are best for that.

I agree but that's part of my point really. We only have Evans as a true ball playing defender. I expect Carrick to play there when he's fit and so the two of them there with say Jones/Smalling makes a massive difference imo but if we're going to play this way then we need better cover, especially as Carrick will likely be needed in cm at times.

I think the back 5 has to be right in this system in terms of balance and beyond our first choice players I think we're severely lacking in that and it showed against Valencia and Swansea in the two most competitive games we've played.

 

[AltiUn]

I think I'm going to take some time off Twitter, the Caf and Facebook. Too depressing.

 

[Hed Zitin]

I don't think it's all doom and gloom. We dominated most of the match. Swansea had very little going forward but managed to score two goals. We will improve and I am sure now we will be signing some much needed reinforcements.

The point of football if you want to win is to score goals. You do that by making chances. We barely created anything. Dominating possession means nothing unless you create.

 

[Godfather]

So many spoilt fans it's ridiculous.

Man City started terribly last season, they didn't end up doing too badly

feck the result.
We knew it could be hard at the beginning.

BUt the way we performed was an utter joke. We didnt have a single spell during the game that I would call good. Nothing at all. That is what is unaccaptable and reminds ppl way too much of last season.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think you need a rest, mate.

I hope he isn't looking into the future.

 

[villain]

I haven't read every single post, but I'm interested to know if you are bashing other people's opinions what is the reaction of a "proper" fan to such an extreme anti-climax?

I am totally gutted watching that, because I had high expectations and spent the match slightly numb but still had hopes until the final whistle, which were dashed. Next match can't come soon enough.

Of course it's disappointing given how well we played in pre-season, but at the same time the form we played in pre-season is what gives me confidence.

I have more faith in LVG reacting to this, whether it's new signings, change in training/tactics or both - were by no means the final product.
Plus there's 37 games left, some of our rivals are going to drop points because they're playing each other early on and we've got at least 9 players to come back from injury.
That's why I'm not freaking out tbh.

 

[Moriarty]

You hit the nail on the head. I understand that van Gaal wanted to assess the squad because there's no point buying players if we don't actually need them or they're not an upgrade on what we already have.

I hope now he has seen enough and knows exactly where we need to strengthen. I'm sure we will bring a couple of players in. It's not all doom and gloom.

Of course we need players. The squad is full of holes. Why Anderson is still taking up space is anyone's guess and the midfield is still lightweight. Buying upgrades on some of our players wouldn't be that hard. As for doom and gloom, how often do we hear that Manchester United is a global giant, up there with Bayern, Real, and Barca. Yet, unlike them, we buy our players, with the odd exception, in football's equivalent of a charity shop. The level of underinvestment has been shocking. These fecking parasites have been sucking hundreds of millions of pounds out of this club and investing little. Van Gaal cannot make bricks without straw and it will take a spending spree of epic proportions to get this team right again.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Why can we never find these players. Them and Chelsea just go out and get who they want. We just brag about the money they club makes and how many fans we have. You don't get a trophy for that.

As much as we take the piss, they didnt even overpay for any of their core players! aguero 34m, toure 24m, silva 28m, nasri 24m, kompany 8m, zabaleta 6m... they tend to just piss money down the drain on replacement strikers and shit squad players they dont need.

 

[Wumminator]

feck.

 

[Walrus]

I agree but that's part of my point really. We only have Evans as a true ball playing defender. I expect Carrick to play there when he's fit and so the two of them there with say Jones/Smalling makes a massive difference imo but if we're going to play this way then we need better cover, especially as Carrick will likely be needed in cm at times.

I think the back 5 has to be right in this system in terms of balance and beyond our first choice players I think we're severely lacking in that and it showed against Valencia and Swansea in the two most competitive games we've played.

What the Valencia and Swansea games have shown us in my opinion, is that we still struggle to break down defenses when the opponent puts bodies behind the ball. Mata and the 3-5-2 were meant to solve this, but Mata was rubbish and we changed formation at half time.

You can blame a lot of things on the defense, but I don't think breaking down stubborn opponents is one of them.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

Of course it's disappointing given how well we played in pre-season, but at the same time the form we played in pre-season is what gives me confidence.

I have more faith in LVG reacting to this, whether it's new signings, change in training/tactics or both - were by no means the final product.
Plus there's 37 games left, some of our rivals are going to drop points because they're playing each other early on and we've got at least 9 players to come back from injury.
That's why I'm not freaking out tbh.

Pre season form means absolutely nothing though, i thought that myth had been debunked long ago. Pre season is literally about fitness.

 

[villain]

feck the result.
We knew it could be hard at the beginning.

BUt the way we performed was an utter joke. We didnt have a single spell during the game that I would call good. Nothing at all. That is what is unaccaptable and reminds ppl way too much of last season.

I'd argue we were more dominant overall, and early 2nd half we played very well - towards the end after they scored again we did show signs of Moyesism
They beat us on the counter and we made a few stupid mistakes that cost us - these things will improve when we get used to the system, and hopefully with better, new players coming in.

 

[100]

He's a passenger. £40m wasted on a player we don't need.

What a waste! Who would condone spending such money on Mata?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mat...t-a-mata-of-time.372687/page-58#post-14897117

 

[032Devil]

So you wouldnt say Fletcher was poor and Mata was only "meh"? Young was okay? That really says it all and ends any further discussions with you about anything related to football.

Fletcher was our only decent midfielder. Mata was disappointing.

In a preserve way, we needed this result. Now let see what our new manager says.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Jones was really good today, I guess that's a positive. We played some good football, but we lacked a little bit of everything. Defensively and on our midfield, the organization and leadership needed to win matches like these looked to be non existent. Man how I'd love a Yaya Touré or even Nigel de Jong to bully players like Shelvy.

Swansea looked stronger physically, fitter, hungrier and simply more ready. This sucks, although I expect us to improve rapidly, we simply looked like we weren't able to switch to a higher gear.

Fecking Valencia game 4 days ago while we are the first team that had to play this Saturday doesn't make any sense too. 28 hours of extra rest would've been nice.

Bird shiting in Ashley Youngs mouth sums it up nicely. Or actually, it doesn´t because that was hilarious, and this was just bollocks.

 

[villain]

Pre season form means absolutely nothing though, i thought that myth had been debunked long ago. Pre season is literally about fitness.

I think that's far too sweeping of a statement to dismiss pre season as meaning absolutely nothing but fitness.
Of course fitness is an important factor, however we showed in pre-season that we can be effective when we play this system and we can play it well too, and that needs to be taken into consideration.