[amolbhatia50k]

feck off Chris Smalling. Absolutely laughable decision making. First yellow for being a tit and second yellow for lacking a few brain cells. Gave us an impossible task and we did well to keep it to 1-0 after that.

 

[Stookie]

City deserved the win and can probably count themselves unlucky in a couple of penalty claims. But, in the last two games United have played the champions elect and current champions and have not done themselves a disservice despite having no defence and with a team in transition. And to be honest, down to 10 men, for periods after their goal we were the better team but you have to take your chances in these games. Why Rooney didn't shoot after that run I don't know.

 

[WR10]

We were lucky to come out with only a 0-1

 

[Americano]

I am not surprised by the result, I went in thinking it could get ugly for us. Had Smalling not been sent off, I wonder if some of their penalty shouts would have been given.

The table is shocking for us right now. At least the club showed fight and we saw some young players. I am reduced to moral victories and intangible progress.

 

[royboy16]

Proud of the lads considering we had a mountain to climb with 10 men.
Glad to see a bit of fight in the team after we went behind.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

1-0 was mostly due to luck, imo. Those penalty shouts could have gone the other way as easily.

DDG was immense. I liked the 2nd half grit from Shaw, return of Rooney were welcome. I think it's most of playing together and clicking rather than personnel changes again.

 

[Ronetta]

what would you know about class? you support City.

So spitting is OK by you then? And I have no class?

 

[LS17]

I thought we were absolutely fine until the red, and if Smalling wasn't so stupid I definitely think we would've picked up a result. We didn't do too bad in the last 15 all things considering and they gave it a good effort. Probably would've done Herrera for RVP and put Rooney up top with 20 minutes to go though.

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I still feel like we need more diversity in our offense. Zabaleta, Clichy etc were able to just bomb upfield and we never looked like we were going to punish them for it. It would really help to have another player with pace and skill who can punish teams on the counter such as Hazard or Schurrle because Di maria is our only player who's capable of this atm but he's needed in a deeper midfield role. I that Reus or Depay would be great additions for this purpose especially.

 

[surf]

Great game by both sides. City deserved the win. The referee was lenient with both teams. I feel sorry for Januzaj missing the second half as he did nothing wrong.

 

[LARulz]

there any interviews with the players after?

 

[Red Dreams]

So spitting is OK by you then? And I have no class?

except he did not spit. make up some more lies.

he was calling him a diver...which he is.

 

[Red_Aaron]

Tough one to analyse.
Although we did OK up to the red with good possession we had little cutting edge whereas city had some good chances
After the red it was only a matter of time before they scored and we did admirably in the circumstances especially considering our personal at the back, strong finish and could've nicked something but wasn't to be.
2 tough games out of the way and we've not disgraced ourselves which is good but the real business starts now though, performances need to start bringing points from here on starting with 3 against palace

 

[XdanielredX]

I think we need to go back to our diamond we were using earlier when Herrera and Falcao return.

------------------------------------DE GEA---------------------------------

RAFA----------------JONES-----------------------ROJO---------------SHAW

------------------------------------BLIND----------------------------------

------------------HERRERA------------------------DI MARIA----------------

-----------------------------------ROONEY--------------------------------

--------------FALCAO--------------------------------VAN PERSIE----------

Di Maria also far better influences games from that central role I think, getting on the ball and creating much more than he has been out wide.

 

[Acole9]

there any interviews with the players after?

Interview with Rooney on sky.

 

[SteveW]

I think we need to go back to our diamond we were using earlier when Herrera and Falcao return.

------------------------------------DE GEA---------------------------------

RAFA----------------JONES-----------------------ROJO---------------SHAW

------------------------------------BLIND----------------------------------

------------------HERRERA------------------------DI MARIA----------------

-----------------------------------ROONEY--------------------------------

--------------FALCAO--------------------------------VAN PERSIE----------

Di Maria also far better influences games from that central role I think, getting on the ball and creating much more than he has been out wide.

The diamond was crap. Current set up is much more balanced and solid hence the creditable performances against Chelsea and City.

 

[Castia]

I thought we did well today, I watched the game with 2 City supporting mates and they were not happy with their performance. I'm almost certain we would have got a point if it wasn't for Smalling's daft sending off.

 

[Kostur]

The diamond was crap. Current set up is much more balanced and solid hence the creditable performances against Chelsea and City.

It's more balanced only if your wingers deliver, if they don't like in last two or three matches, you're left with nothing.

 

[2 man midfield]

Di Maria is worryingly poor on the wing. I remember thinking he was inconsistent out there but not this bad. Hopefully it's just a dip. Can we also take him off corner duty please?

Pissed about losing, it's still a derby after all, just gotta take solace in the progress we're making. Just a shame we can't get results now. Oh well, big picture and all that.

 

[noodlehair]

How many more awful performances will it be before people stop pretending we played well after each one?

We play well in tiny patches in games...like today for the last 15 minutes. The rest of the game we spent being thoroughly inept against a City side who were all over the fecking place for the entire 90 minutes.

This is the problem this season. Last season teams would beat us. This season they don't have to. They can do nothing for an entire game and wait for us to beat ourselves.

- Valencia's performance was probably the worst of his career
- It's all well and good blaming Smalling, but by the time he got sent off, we were just sitting there waiting for Man City to score. He was also trying to cover for the festival of unbelievable baffoonery that resulted in Milner being in a ocean of space in the first instance, which involved at least three of our other players
- Shaw was back to spending half the game daydreaming and being scared of the ball
- That thing I said teams would start doing where they realise Blind is our only midfielder and double mark him, happened, again, and Van Gaal did feck all about it, again.
- Rojo's injury was every bit as stupid as Smalling's red card, and lucky it didn't end with the same thing.
- Why is Di Maria taking all of our corners? He can't take corners. The level of dumb involved here from everyone in the team and on the coaching staff is actually impossible to comprehend.


We've played 11 games this season, and there's only been one that hasn't involved us playing like a drunk disorganised pub side for at least 50% of the game...and that was at home to QPR.

After spending over £150m and hugely under achieving last season with the squad we had BEFORE doing that, I'm struggling to find how anything we've come up with this season is "progress"...unless it's progress from being a poor football team to a circus act.

Yeah the last 15 minutes was good...but you know what's better? Not throwing away a game with 75 minutes of hapless shite in the first place.

 

[AKDevil]

Smalling is a c**t. Sorry. Get two yellows for two needed fouls and we can accept that. Getting them for what he did is just f***ing ridiculously, unbelievably stupid. What a prick. Hopefully that's the sort of thing LVG holds against him when he has a few more options and it is time to wield the axe. Cost us the game. Idiot.

Anyway, that fool aside, encouraged by last two games even if only one point return. Expected none and a goal difference of at least minus six so even with half a defence v Chelsea (let's be honest, most would upgrade two cbs) and today's shambles we are not as bad as most say.

Now is the time to show it and i expect to beat Arsenal

 

[Castia]

I really don't agree with much of your points there mate, before the sending off we matched City in the first half, maybe they created the better chances but on the whole we largely outplayed them. Worse case scenario the first half was even and we were easily the better team for the last 20 minutes, all with 10 men away at City with Carrick and McNair as a CB pairing, this is a million miles better than what we were seeing against the likes of Burnley, Leicester and Swansea.

 

[Theonas]

How many more awful performances will it be before people stop pretending we played well after each one?

We play well in tiny patches in games...like today for the last 15 minutes. The rest of the game we spent being thoroughly inept against a City side who were all over the fecking place for the entire 90 minutes.

This is the problem this season. Last season teams would beat us. This season they don't have to. They can do nothing for an entire game and wait for us to beat ourselves.

- Valencia's performance was probably the worst of his career
- It's all well and good blaming Smalling, but by the time he got sent off, we were just sitting there waiting for Man City to score. He was also trying to cover for the festival of unbelievable baffoonery that resulted in Milner being in a ocean of space in the first instance, which involved at least three of our other players
- Shaw was back to spending half the game daydreaming and being scared of the ball
- That thing I said teams would start doing where they realise Blind is our only midfielder and double mark him, happened, again, and Van Gaal did feck all about it, again.
- Rojo's injury was every bit as stupid as Smalling's red card, and lucky it didn't end with the same thing.
- Why is Di Maria taking all of our corners? He can't take corners. The level of dumb involved here from everyone in the team and on the coaching staff is actually impossible to comprehend.


We've played 11 games this season, and there's only been one that hasn't involved us playing like a drunk disorganised pub side for at least 50% of the game...and that was at home to QPR.

After spending over £150m and hugely under achieving last season with the squad we had BEFORE doing that, I'm struggling to find how anything we've come up with this season is "progress"...unless it's progress from being a poor football team to a circus act.

Yeah the last 15 minutes was good...but you know what's better? Not throwing away a game with 75 minutes of hapless shite in the first place.

It's not pretend, everything is relative. I don't think anybody is claiming we are playing like potential champions but compared to last year, it is a massive difference. For me we had two massive problems last year, wilt under pressure and when the other team has the momentum (ex: Liverpool home, City home and away). The second issue was the mind-numbing predictability of our attacks. It literally always followed the same pattern: winger stands in front of his full back, turns, pass back to midfield, shift to the other side, rinse and go again. The first issue has been largely dealt with since the Leicester game. Against Chelsea, they scored and looked on top but we stood up against them and kept our shapes and head and it was even more so today. As for the second point, we are definitely much improved, we could still do with a bit more sharpness and incisiveness when it comes to our passing and movement but it was always ridiculous to reach top levels in those aspects after a couple of months. So all in all, there is reason to be optimistic and we should just accept that what we are doing takes time and by time I mean up to 12 months.

 

[Red Dreams]

I really don't agree with much of your points there mate, before the sending off we matched City in the first half, maybe they created the better chances but on the whole we largely outplayed them. Worse case scenario the first half was even and we were easily the better team for the last 20 minutes, all with 10 men away at City with Carrick and McNair as a CB pairing, this is a million miles better than what we were seeing against the likes of Burnley, Leicester and Swansea.

agree with most of that. I felt we were the better team v Chelsea...but were worth at least a point v City. Smalling will learn from this...and improve.

I still feel very confident we will get at least to 4th...so much more football to be played.

Main thing is we are playing like a proper team...which was missing in teh earlier matches.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

One thing to keep in mind in any debate over our performance today is that City were very poor today and absolutely for the taking.

 

[Raoul]

One thing to keep in mind in any debate over our performance today is that City were very poor today and absolutely for the taking.

They looked vulnerable at times but were definitely better than their recent performances. Theirs and Pelegrini's backs were against the wall and they delivered a decent response. We were simply doomed once Smalling was sent off.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Have we already figured out why Fellaini was constantly up next to RVP in City's box, while Rooney had to cover Fella's tracks in midfield?

Was it because Fellaini usually does this and couldn't help himself? Rooney was way too focused on staying in the middle for that, he didn't look surprised so it had to be tactical.

Maybe LvG felt that Rooney would be better on the ball than Fellaini in midfield, might be true and it looked that way today. Making it ridiculous, Fellaini played alright, but thanks to him Rooney had almost no chance to come into the box and score in the first half. Our striker/#10 being better at playing CM than the dude who is actually playing there on paper, it's so confusing.

 

[SteveW]

It's more balanced only if your wingers deliver, if they don't like in last two or three matches, you're left with nothing.

How about more balanced because teams aren't simply able to walk though us and because our full backs actually had someone to help them out? Its clearly more balanced and solid. You think we should scrap it again just because Di Maria's had a couple of crap performances??? Is that it?

 

[Kostur]

How about more balanced because teams aren't simply able to walk though us and because our full backs actually had someone to help them out? Its clearly more balanced and solid. You think we should scrap it again just because Di Maria's had a couple of crap performances??? Is that it?

What was the reason to scrap 4-4-2 diamond in the first place? Who's 'walked through us' ? Fullbacks are being covered by CMs in the diamond, just like they're covered by wingers in the 4-1-4-1 we're playing right now so hardly anything changes in that field.

Yes, we should scrap it because we've looked better with 4-4-2 diamond imo and it's not only ADM that's underperforming on the wing, Januzaj is as well. When you've got two wingers that are underperforming then what's the point playing a formation with 2 wingers?

 

[SteveW]

What was the reason to scrap 4-4-2 diamond in the first place? Who's 'walked through us' ? Fullbacks are being covered by CMs in the diamond, just like they're covered by wingers in the 4-1-4-1 we're playing right now so hardly anything changes in that field.

Yes, we should scrap it because we've looked better with 4-4-2 diamond imo and it's not only ADM that's underperforming on the wing, Januzaj is as well. When you've got two wingers that are underperforming then what's the point playing a formation with 2 wingers?

How about Leicester City? We largely got away with the narrow top heavy formation because we had an easy set of fixtures. Playing 2 centre forwards with a number 10 behind is insane at this level of football. The diamond won't work against anybody decent. Thankfully we didn't try it against Chelsea or City. We'd have got slaughtered.

The wingers give us and extra body in midfield and more solidity in wide areas. I'd go into more detail on the benefits of this but I'm tired and it shouldn't require explanation.

 

[ZDwyr]

Have we already figured out why Fellaini was constantly up next to RVP in City's box, while Rooney had to cover Fella's tracks in midfield?

Was it because Fellaini usually does this and couldn't help himself? Rooney was way too focused on staying in the middle for that, he didn't look surprised so it had to be tactical.

Maybe LvG felt that Rooney would be better on the ball than Fellaini in midfield, might be true and it looked that way today. Making it ridiculous, Fellaini played alright, but thanks to him Rooney had almost no chance to come into the box and score in the first half. Our striker/#10 being better at playing CM than the dude who is actually playing there on paper, it's so confusing.

Thought they shared the duty tbh. There were times when Rooney was there and Fellaini was deeper.

 

[jem]

How many more awful performances will it be before people stop pretending we played well after each one?

We play well in tiny patches in games...like today for the last 15 minutes. The rest of the game we spent being thoroughly inept against a City side who were all over the fecking place for the entire 90 minutes.

This is the problem this season. Last season teams would beat us. This season they don't have to. They can do nothing for an entire game and wait for us to beat ourselves.

- Valencia's performance was probably the worst of his career
- It's all well and good blaming Smalling, but by the time he got sent off, we were just sitting there waiting for Man City to score. He was also trying to cover for the festival of unbelievable baffoonery that resulted in Milner being in a ocean of space in the first instance, which involved at least three of our other players
- Shaw was back to spending half the game daydreaming and being scared of the ball
- That thing I said teams would start doing where they realise Blind is our only midfielder and double mark him, happened, again, and Van Gaal did feck all about it, again.
- Rojo's injury was every bit as stupid as Smalling's red card, and lucky it didn't end with the same thing.
- Why is Di Maria taking all of our corners? He can't take corners. The level of dumb involved here from everyone in the team and on the coaching staff is actually impossible to comprehend.


We've played 11 games this season, and there's only been one that hasn't involved us playing like a drunk disorganised pub side for at least 50% of the game...and that was at home to QPR.

After spending over £150m and hugely under achieving last season with the squad we had BEFORE doing that, I'm struggling to find how anything we've come up with this season is "progress"...unless it's progress from being a poor football team to a circus act.

Yeah the last 15 minutes was good...but you know what's better? Not throwing away a game with 75 minutes of hapless shite in the first place.

Ok, I hardly watched the game due to river issues, but almost every comment in the Shaw thread is positive. So what gives?

 

[Lowkey]

Put Rafael, Jones, Herrera, Falcao, Evans, Carrick back into the setup and we will be a VERY strong team.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

The diamond was crap. Current set up is much more balanced and solid hence the creditable performances against Chelsea and City.

Granted the current formation has made us look slightly more solid at the back, but we still look like where going to concede and look far more pridicable going forward so is it really worth it?

Our plan for the past two weeks has basically been knock it out to the wingers, which has been proved time and time again is easy for teams to defend against in the modern game.

At least before with di Maria more involved we looked frightening going forward. The best part of our play is when we used the diamond was the midfield of di Maria, Herrera and blind, which looked like it was starting create an understanding and nucleus we could build our team round.

We've thrown that all away to play one dimensional football, (with pretty much identical tactics to what moyes was so heavily criticised for) that still looks like it's going to concede.

The strongest part of this team is the attack, we need to play on that strength, And the diamond is the best way to do that.

 

[tombombadil]

I think Rojo needs and experienced, calm head next to him. He can't speak much if any English and he is the experienced head sometimes. not fair on him.

Yeah, you're right. It's not fair on him considering he is new and probably hardly speaks any English right now. He deserves more time.

 

[caid]

I thought we played our best football with the diamond.
The defence and strikers were meh but the midfield looked pretty great to me.

I think di maria is better in midfield too. Think hes just much better at carrying the ball forward from deep areas than he is out on the wing.

The 2 strikers up front might be a problem i guess. Maybe it'd be better to drop one for a robben in the wc style winger (januzaj basically, who i think has been pretty good in recent games)
Let him wander and play on the shoulder of the last defender kind of thing.

Im hoping we go back to the diamond with hererra against palace anyway.

 

[Gannicus]

1 goal each to the rent boy chavs and shitty? Considering the tragic comedy of our back line right that's actually fantastic stuff!

Still, the table is looking ugly right now.

 

[XdanielredX]

The diamond was crap. Current set up is much more balanced and solid hence the creditable performances against Chelsea and City.

I know it's only been a few matches but from what I've seen it just seems Di Maria seems to influence the game so much more and fire when he's played in the midfield and if we have a firing Di Maria we have a chance.

As someone said:
His first three years at Madrid when used on the wing as well as Higuain, Benzema and Ozil. Those four regularly were poor in the big games under Mourinho apart from the odd match or moment. Him and Ozil had good stats and were quite productive but they regularly went through patches of bad form and inconsistency.

It was last year when Ancelotti put him in midfield that he became world class and a big game player and was absolutely brilliant. He became more consistent and influenced matches (especially the big ones) much more. He is entering his peak now as a player so I am sure he will be better on the wing for United than he was for us as he was still quite young at Madrid. But like I said before, the best football in his career by far has come when playing in midfield. Whether United want to use him that way or have the personnel to fit him into such a formation is a different story. But it is a bit crazy to sign a player for the big money that they spent and not use him in the position where he played his best football by far. The player in his first three seasons on the wing for Madrid was worth nowhere near that amount.

 

[Maroo]

- Shaw was back to spending half the game daydreaming and being scared of the ball

Thats just too harsh mate. Shaw was superb defensively, kept breaking up plays from his end when he could, made crucial interceptions and was good on one-on-ones. I think he was amongst our best players today. He could not take the ball forward often enough because we lacked the crucial man, but when he did he was confident.

 

[bosnian_red]

How many more awful performances will it be before people stop pretending we played well after each one?

We play well in tiny patches in games...like today for the last 15 minutes. The rest of the game we spent being thoroughly inept against a City side who were all over the fecking place for the entire 90 minutes.

This is the problem this season. Last season teams would beat us. This season they don't have to. They can do nothing for an entire game and wait for us to beat ourselves.

- Valencia's performance was probably the worst of his career
- It's all well and good blaming Smalling, but by the time he got sent off, we were just sitting there waiting for Man City to score. He was also trying to cover for the festival of unbelievable baffoonery that resulted in Milner being in a ocean of space in the first instance, which involved at least three of our other players
- Shaw was back to spending half the game daydreaming and being scared of the ball
- That thing I said teams would start doing where they realise Blind is our only midfielder and double mark him, happened, again, and Van Gaal did feck all about it, again.
- Rojo's injury was every bit as stupid as Smalling's red card, and lucky it didn't end with the same thing.
- Why is Di Maria taking all of our corners? He can't take corners. The level of dumb involved here from everyone in the team and on the coaching staff is actually impossible to comprehend.


We've played 11 games this season, and there's only been one that hasn't involved us playing like a drunk disorganised pub side for at least 50% of the game...and that was at home to QPR.

After spending over £150m and hugely under achieving last season with the squad we had BEFORE doing that, I'm struggling to find how anything we've come up with this season is "progress"...unless it's progress from being a poor football team to a circus act.

Yeah the last 15 minutes was good...but you know what's better? Not throwing away a game with 75 minutes of hapless shite in the first place.

A bit of perspective is needed. We played away to city, who are a better side then us, no doubt about that. Even when Fergie was here, we got the odd result, but city dominated the fixture even then. You can't expect us to be on the front foot away to them for the entire game. We had a red, so we sat back. Before the red, yeah they were probably the better team. Not by much though, they created the 2 chances shortly after each other and that was about it.

Agree about rojo's injury and Di maria taking corners though. Can't agree with the other points. We played with Valencia, Carrick, McNair and Shaw as our back 4 at the end, and we finished strongly. Did you expect us to attack with our 10 men? Control the game? It was always going to be hard, even with 11 men, but with 10 men, your only hope is pretty much parking the bus when you are away to city.