[Jonnymufc]

Saw some Twitter videos supposedly of some of their fans throwing seats onto the pitch. It looked legit. Did you see any of that?

No not at all tbh. I was in the neutral area but near the United fans.

Disappointing if that is the case but was surprised to see the majority stay afterwards and they were fine on the train and everything. Just chatting about the game.

 

[daveyjones]

Didn't see the entire match, but it looked like men vs boys. Ajax couldn't cope with our physicality. And that's only for starters.

 

[Jacko21]

Anyone know if the team has arrived back in Manchester yet? And if not, when are they due?

 

[MichaelKorleone]

No need to knock Dutch football or Ajax based on a few people's comments. Dutch have a great footballing tradition and Ajax are one of the pioneers of attacking football with their Total Football style. I believe they're the first club to complete the European set too (which we finally achieved last night after I desperately waited years for it)

It's understandable some would be bitter seeing it's very rare for Dutch sides to reach European finals these days, let alone dominate the competition. Ajax deserved a lot of credit for their whole EL campaign, playing attacking football (for better or worse) with a lot of young kids brought up from their academy. Credit to Peter Bosz who got them to a final after years of underachieving under Frank de Boer (who was great in Eredivisie but mixed in Europe; a bit like Conte-Allegri at Juventus).

I find it an endearing quality that the Dutch are proud of their style and nobody in the country was impressed with their 2010 WC campaign, despite reaching the finals. Cruyff openly criticized them, so at least they're not hypocrites. I'm tired of staying up late on European nights only to watch them crash and burn so I hope Ajax cross the CL qualifying rounds unlike last time and have a great CL campaign as long as they don't meet us.

It's better to let go of a few comments from players/fans and be magnanimous in victory

 

[breakout67]

Its funny that the English get criticized for their neanderthal ways of playing while the dutch get praise despite both of them being cults in the way they view football. I see the dutch tradition as pathetic as the english tradition of hoofing it and having a go. A combination of naivety and arrogance.

Ajax have fallen as a football club because they didnt adapt to the changing world of football, instead choosing to double down on their losing strategy. There is nothing admirable about that in my opinion.

 

[Theonas]

Dude, you're just obsessed with a particular style of football, just relax and enjoy our win, who gives a shit about style today?

You're wrong. I couldn't care less about any particular style. I admire front foot football and think is what we should aim for and acknowledge that this can come in many shapes and forms style wise. As for obsessed, José is a good example, when after big victories you use that time to take digs at "poets" or whatever, it shows the level of insecurity and obsession about public perception, not discussing football topics on a football forum.

 

[Theonas]

Its funny that the English get criticized for their neanderthal ways of playing while the dutch get praise despite both of them being cults in the way they view football. I see the dutch tradition as pathetic as the english tradition of hoofing it and having a go. A combination of naivety and arrogance.

Ajax have fallen as a football club because they didnt adapt to the changing world of football, instead choosing to double down on their losing strategy. There is nothing admirable about that in my opinion.

Money and size of the country has much more to do with it than any strategy or footballing philosophy.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

You're wrong. I couldn't care less about any particular style. I admire front foot football and think is what we should aim for and acknowledge that this can come in many shapes and forms style wise. As for obsessed, José is a good example, when after big victories you use that time to take digs at "poets" or whatever, it shows the level of insecurity and obsession about public perception, not discussing football topics on a football forum.

Well for someone who couldn't care less about footballing style you sure do write a lot about it.

And really, who cares what José said in a post match interview? Today of all days it would be nice to see people lay off the criticism, but they just can't help it...

 

[cyberman]

Pogba did ok for a player who wouldn't get a game for Ajax...

 

[Theonas]

Well for someone who couldn't care less about footballing style you sure do write a lot about it.

And really, who cares what José said in a post match interview? Today of all days it would be nice to see people lay off the criticism, but they just can't help it...

First of all, why do you care what I write about? It's really weird how much you care about the poster instead of the post. And you are wrong again, I never write about style, at least never in a my own preference way. You are mistaking style for approach which are two very different things. I think Fergie, Klopp, Wenger, Pep among many others share one main philosophy which is to play on the front foot and make the other team react to you more than you react to them (not 100% obviously) They all however apply that in very different styles. I want my manager to share the same philosophy regardless of how he applies it.

 

[Eire Red United]

Anyone know if the team has arrived back in Manchester yet? And if not, when are they due?

I think they're back. Saw a picture on social media of De Gea, Herrera and a couple of others on the plane with trophy and the caption "last nights journey home with extra special hand luggage."

 

[breakout67]

Money and size of the country has much more to do with it than any strategy or footballing philosophy.

That is part of their footballing philosophy, they do not want to buy their way to success, even though they would be welcomed if they did because they are a big club that earnt their money. The size of their country is only relevant because of their footballing philosophy; they do not embrace other footballing cultures and so limit the pool of players they can use.

The premiere league would have never dominated european football in the early 2000s if it was not for flexing their financial muscle and bringing in foreign players. The premiere league today would be irrelevant without foreign players (and that is why the dutch league is irrelevant now, because they never took the steps to take advantage of the global nature of football).

 

[Theonas]

That is part of their footballing philosophy, they do not want to buy their way to success, even though they would be welcomed if they did because they are a big club that earnt their money. The size of their country is only relevant because of their footballing philosophy; they do not embrace other footballing cultures and so limit the pool of players they can use.

The premiere league would have never dominated european football in the early 2000s if it was not for flexing their financial muscle and bringing in foreign players. The premiere league today would be irrelevant without foreign players (and that is why the dutch league is irrelevant now, because they never took the steps to take advantage of the global nature of football).

The size of the country is significantly linked to what its league and national team can achieve financially. There is a clear link between the size of the countries where the biggest leagues in Europe exist (Italy, Germany, England and Spain) They have more people, they can sell to more and make more money as well as other advantages you get when you can have more local resources. The Netherlands have a population of 16 millions. If you don't think having 3 times more people has an effect on how much money you can make, I am not sure what we are arguing about.

 

[SaradM]

Ajax were outplayed by us. Back4 and the 3 in the middle of the park demonstrated fantastic discipline. Never thought Fellaini and Darmian could play like that ever.

Teams can play this 3 sec rule of getting back possession, have possession for 70% of the time etc. but if it does not articulate to anything meaningful, i.e. chances or goals, it actually adds to nothing but frustration. Unless you are like a team like Barca, playing a fast pressing, possession based footie will do nothing but burn you out and you give up in the last 10-15 mins like we found out under LVG last term.

 

[breakout67]

The size of the country is significantly linked to what its league and national team can achieve financially. There is a clear link between the size of the countries where the biggest leagues in Europe exist (Italy, Germany, England and Spain) They have more people, they can sell to more and make more money as well as other advantages you get when you can have more local resources. The Netherlands have a population of 16 millions. If you don't think having 3 times more people has an effect on how much money you can make, I am not sure what we are arguing about.

Match day tickets only scratch the surface of a club's revenue. You said that the size of the country has much more to do with it when this is simply wrong. There is a difference between saying size of country has an effect and size of country is one of the most important factors. I never denied the former.

Manchester United has a global following, that is what allows them to dwarf Ajax in terms of financials. Manchester United used their success to build a global brand which allowed them to spend the money they can now. Ajax portrays itself as a purist club that does not accept fans if they do not view the football in the 'correct' way.

 

[Theonas]

Match day tickets only scratch the surface of a club's revenue. You said that the size of the country has much more to do with it when this is simply wrong. There is a difference between saying size of country has an effect and size of country is one of the most important factors. I never denied the former.

Manchester United has a global following, that is what allows them to dwarf Ajax in terms of financials. Manchester United used their success to build a global brand which allowed them to spend the money they can now. Ajax portrays itself as a purist club that does not accept fans if they do not view the football in the 'correct' way.

My point is they were in too much of a disadvantageous position to the likes of us or Bayern for the argument of whether their ideology interfered with what they could achieve. With or without a purist ideology a club from Holland playing in the Dutch league stood very little chance, maybe impossible, to compete financially what we or Bayern could.

 

[GiddyUp]

I'm kind of shocked at the attitude of the British football media and fans at other clubs towards our cup win. We had an opportunity to get to where we want because our league form was below average. A cup that everyone hates yet the rewards are now vital to a club in a situation like ours, Arsenal will do the same thing next season.
All the excuses rolled out and sticks to beat us with yet in five years I doubt most fans will be able to tell us who came second in the year we won the Europa league. What a pack of cnuts after the week Manchester have had. I hope we feck over everyone of them next season. Also a special mention to Steve Nicol, you fat feck, we signed five players last summer, not half a team. You want to use context when talking about Liverpool, which you rarely do cause they are never in fecking Europe, yet refuse to use it with our signings. Such a wanker. Brian McBride schooled that cnut on what football is meant to be, winning silver. You would think a Liverpool fecker like that would agree since he passed his way to league wins with Bruce Grobbelar.

 

[duffer]

I'm genuinely happy you won.

Great to see Jose so pumped after the final whistle.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Oh no, we won the EL cup.

This is not a blessing in disguise .

lol

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

It's a pity that those methods have not led to success for the Dutch themselves.

Germany have won a major trophy every decade bar 1 since the 70's. They just tend to know how to win. Sadly it doesn't extend to their Dutch cousins.

Thanks to their willingness to learn they have managed to continue winning trophies. But with 80 millian Germans to pick 11 from it's different. The Netherlands can have 3 world class players at a WC or EC, or 5 sometimes, but on a lot of positions there need to improvised.

Its funny that the English get criticized for their neanderthal ways of playing while the dutch get praise despite both of them being cults in the way they view football. I see the dutch tradition as pathetic as the english tradition of hoofing it and having a go. A combination of naivety and arrogance.

Ajax have fallen as a football club because they didnt adapt to the changing world of football, instead choosing to double down on their losing strategy. There is nothing admirable about that in my opinion.

You really have no idea what Bosman, television money and the richest club have done to European football, have you?

In the 70s English, Spanish and Italian clubs were richer to, but only the very best players were transferred and when they were about 25 years old. So with the Ajax playing style, Ajax won the European cup three times in a row.

In the 90s the money difference grew a lot bigger and more players were transferred and at a younger age. The richest clubs had about 4-6 times as much more money to spend on players than Ajax. So with the evolved playing style, Ajax was only capable of winning the Champions league once, allthough the year after they met a drugged Juventus in the final that should have been disqualified. But the playing style allowed to humiliate Real in Bernabeu.

In the 2010's the richest clubs have about 10-15 times more to spend on players, and the best players have to be transferred as young as 21 or 20. This means that Ajax with their more evolved playing style can't really compete for the the CL. Nontheless, one of the richest clubs had to adapt to Ajax and use very defensive tactics and was very much relieved that Ajax played very poorly and conceded a lucky first goal in a European final. To get there they had to beat clubs with 4-6 times more money to spend on players, and they did thanks to their playing style.

The English clubs, with the English playing style, tend to lose to clubs with lots less money to spend.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Still buzzing after it. I think Fellaini should have been man of the match. He was a beast all night.

I was nervous watching it but we were comfortable all through the match.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

Strange night last night, I didn't watch the game live as I was at Stewart Lee (we tried to offload our tickets and book for another night without success) so my brother and I weighed up whether to ditch the gig before deciding to go anyway, avoid news of the game and watch it later as if it were live. Barring the odd fast forward when the ball was out of play that's exactly what we did, and it was very odd watching such a big game with the usual butterflies despite it being over. Quite a novel way to watch a cup final and one I won't forget in a hurry.

Knackered now though after feck-all sleep and a day's work (but obviously very pleased ).

 

[dutchred]

No need to knock Dutch football or Ajax based on a few people's comments. Dutch have a great footballing tradition and Ajax are one of the pioneers of attacking football with their Total Football style. I believe they're the first club to complete the European set too (which we finally achieved last night after I desperately waited years for it)

It's understandable some would be bitter seeing it's very rare for Dutch sides to reach European finals these days, let alone dominate the competition. Ajax deserved a lot of credit for their whole EL campaign, playing attacking football (for better or worse) with a lot of young kids brought up from their academy. Credit to Peter Bosz who got them to a final after years of underachieving under Frank de Boer (who was great in Eredivisie but mixed in Europe; a bit like Conte-Allegri at Juventus).

I find it an endearing quality that the Dutch are proud of their style and nobody in the country was impressed with their 2010 WC campaign, despite reaching the finals. Cruyff openly criticized them, so at least they're not hypocrites. I'm tired of staying up late on European nights only to watch them crash and burn so I hope Ajax cross the CL qualifying rounds unlike last time and have a great CL campaign as long as they don't meet us.

It's better to let go of a few comments from players/fans and be magnanimous in victory

Totally agree Ajax with a young team have been terrific this season in Europe. Also showed a lot of character for such a young team especially against Schalke.
One major problem is that rich clubs in England ( including us) are now taking players from Holland and Belgium at an early age. The pressure to win in England is so great that these young players don't get an chance of playing on a regular basis and so regress or go out on loan and make a name for themselves at a different club. I'm sure if Timothy was still at Ajax he would have been in that team last night. Eufa needs to do something about this.
It would be interesting to see how many Dutch and Belgium youngsters under 19 are at Chelsea, Arsenal, United and City and how many have played first team football.

 

[K2K]

Thanks to their willingness to learn they have managed to continue winning trophies. But with 80 millian Germans to pick 11 from it's different. The Netherlands can have 3 world class players at a WC or EC, or 5 sometimes, but on a lot of positions there need to improvised.


You really have no idea what Bosman, television money and the richest club have done to European football, have you?

In the 70s English, Spanish and Italian clubs were richer to, but only the very best players were transferred and when they were about 25 years old. So with the Ajax playing style, Ajax won the European cup three times in a row.

In the 90s the money difference grew a lot bigger and more players were transferred and at a younger age. The richest clubs had about 4-6 times as much more money to spend on players than Ajax. So with the evolved playing style, Ajax was only capable of winning the Champions league once, allthough the year after they met a drugged Juventus in the final that should have been disqualified. But the playing style allowed to humiliate Real in Bernabeu.

In the 2010's the richest clubs have about 10-15 times more to spend on players, and the best players have to be transferred as young as 21 or 20. This means that Ajax with their more evolved playing style can't really compete for the the CL. Nontheless, one of the richest clubs had to adapt to Ajax and use very defensive tactics and was very much relieved that Ajax played very poorly and conceded a lucky first goal in a European final. To get there they had to beat clubs with 4-6 times more money to spend on players, and they did thanks to their playing style.

The English clubs, with the English playing style, tend to lose to clubs with lots less money to spend.

If there is one thing the Germans have never lacked, it's the ability to win. You mentioned the poor German side of the 2000s that was thrashed by England in the qualifiers. Yet they still dusted themselves to make it to a world cup final. Unfortunately they met a man on mission in Ronaldo. That cutting edge and winning mentality is simply something the Dutch national teams have not had. It's not just down to talent because the Dutch have had great players in the past. You find this a lot in sport. Great teams with everything but lacking when it's needed most. Germany don't lack that and have simply done what they always did. Win.

The problem with Dutch football now is that the talent pool is diminishing and their way of football simply isn't working.

Van Gaal to his credit realised this in 2014 and was pragmatic, and with some luck did very well at the world cup. That is what Dutch football needs. A reality check. Either they can continue to whine about how the opponent plays while continually losing, or like Brazil after 82, adapt. Greece and to an extent Portugal have shown what is needed in the modern age to win with limited talent. Dutch football simply can't go toe to toe with the big boys either.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

Appalling post.

Deleted

 

[Catt]

@Dr. Funkenstein are you happy United won? That's if you are a United fan at all as you seem disappointed.

 

[Handsome Devil]

We know the real hero here. Your dog. Salute him, sir.

Hope I have done this right (Newbie.) Ok, this is our secret weapon Barrett, my Trailhound, a rescue dog from Kendal by way of Cork and a retired racer. He is a big softie who loves to take over the sofa when his master is watching the footie. I worked out this season that we have never lost when he joins me on the sofa. Last night was no exception. All for the cost of two gravy bones. He categorically denies all responsibility for the 1-1 draws though.

 

[sergiosigurvinson]

You make me sick. Are you even an United fan?

It looks more and more to Frakenstein.

 

[Rory 7]

I just want to say. Stockholm is wonderful! Wonderful. Shame I've a 5am start tomorrow morning. Another night would be great.

 

[RuudRuud]

• Ajax got to the final with a team of teenagers with a total worth of 18,9m, purely with their style of playing and the ability to raise talents.
• Ajax has a budget of 65 million (+players sold) and competed with teams with 5-10 times their budget
• Ajax played the most entertaining games vs Lyon and Schalke, and that's what football is, entertainment.
• The Dutch national team got into WC final 2010 and semi's 2014 with a country of only 16,7 million people.
• Barcelona played with the Dutch system in arguably the best team ever.

Conclusion: Dutch football style sucks??? luls

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Now that we've qualified for CL, De Gea you can and should stay now.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

If there is one thing the Germans have never lacked, it's the ability to win. You mentioned the poor German side of the 2000s that was thrashed by England in the qualifiers. Yet they still dusted themselves to make it to a world cup final. Unfortunately they met a man on mission in Ronaldo. That cutting edge and winning mentality is simply something the Dutch national teams have not had. It's not just down to talent because the Dutch have had great players in the past. You find this a lot in sport. Great teams with everything but lacking when it's needed most. Germany don't lack that and have simply done what they always did. Win.

That used to be a fair point, but you're ignoring that both have been working on it for a long time and have evolved. Ironically, you can't count on the Germans anymore when it comes to winning it in the last minute on mentality since they play better football. Appearently you can't just have them both. The Dutch have been learning from the Germans and working on winning since the 80s, and they've made a lot of progress. Ironically in 2010 they tried to be too 'German' about it, they had the players to go full Dutch and would have had a better chance of beating Spain. The Dutch style is hard and doesn't always come off, but if it really does, the team is much, much more than the sum of it's parts. It's the English that keep trying the same thing over and over again, the passion and the quality with an experienced manager will do it, other countries learn and progress.

The problem with Dutch football now is that the talent pool is diminishing and their way of football simply isn't working.

Van Gaal to his credit realised this in 2014 and was pragmatic, and with some luck did very well at the world cup. That is what Dutch football needs. A reality check. Either they can continue to whine about how the opponent plays while continually losing, or like Brazil after 82, adapt. Greece and to an extent Portugal have shown what is needed in the modern age to win with limited talent. Dutch football simply can't go toe to toe with the big boys either.

But it's not like all elements of the Dutch style were thrown out in 2014, there's a lot more to it than just playing attractive to the neutral spectator and be in the opponents half. But it has always been a means to overachieve, to beat opponents with better players by playing better as a team. But to play the style full on and be dominant, on the other half with lots of possesson, you can't have too many inferior players. Possession is not only about tactics, if two teams play the same tactic, the best team will have most of the possession. But it's only for a small part about possession, this Ajax for example didn't have that much possession against Schalke and Lyon, because they risk losing possession a lot to create and play forward fast to exploit temporary space. But not by hoofing it, but for example by trying to string 3 one touch passes together.

This evolved Ajax playing style works for Ajax, it has been the most overachieving team in Europe this season. The Dutch national team is a different matter. It's a poor generation of players right now so they shouldn't try to be too dominant and aren't, but the playing style isn't the biggest problem and the Dutch playing style hasn't been the reason why they've played some disappointing WCs and ECs the last two decades.

 

[Lentwood]

Where are all the European football experts who were telling me how good Ajax where?

As I said many times in the pre-match thread, Ajax are pretty rubbish and so many people wasted so many posts going on about nonsense on how their youthful attacking flair was going to be too much for us

Point being, some posters need to stop desperately hyping anyone and everyone. I saw highlights of Dolberg scoring a few goals, googled "Dolberg vs Celta", watched about 60 secs of a video of all his touches. Saw that he was crap. Moved on.

 

[Gasolin]

Pogba did ok for a player who wouldn't get a game for Ajax...

Or Ajax wouldn't get a game from Pogba, who knows...

 

[sunama]

33% possession

feck off LVG

LVG would be proud...















of AJAX!

 

[sunama]

Where are all the European football experts who were telling me how good Ajax where?

As I said many times in the pre-match thread, Ajax are pretty rubbish and so many people wasted so many posts going on about nonsense on how their youthful attacking flair was going to be too much for us

Point being, some posters need to stop desperately hyping anyone and everyone. I saw highlights of Dolberg scoring a few goals, googled "Dolberg vs Celta", watched about 60 secs of a video of all his touches. Saw that he was crap. Moved on.

There was a thread, where I got absolutely slated.
Some guy was spouting rubbish that Dolberg is the second coming of {enter name of great striker}.
That Ajax have a beast of CB.
I was ridiculed for saying that I don't buy into this silly hype and that the Dutch league is pretty crap. With with the last 3 Dutch league top scorers: Janssen, Memphis, Finnbogason, each failing spectacularly, when they moved away from the dutch league.

I'm honestly beginning to think that the Dutch in-the-know people, don't actually watch Dutch teams play.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

• Ajax got to the final with a team of teenagers with a total worth of 18,9m, purely with their style of playing and the ability to raise talents.
• Ajax has a budget of 65 million (+players sold) and competed with teams with 5-10 times their budget
• Ajax played the most entertaining games vs Lyon and Schalke, and that's what football is, entertainment.
• The Dutch national team got into WC final 2010 and semi's 2014 with a country of only 16,7 million people.
• Barcelona played with the Dutch system in arguably the best team ever.

Conclusion: Dutch football style sucks.

You make some good points but, while it obviously was not a problem early in the competition it does show an issue going on in Dutch Football right now. The match reminded me a lot of Holland's loss to Bulgaria in qualifying. Against United Ajax's top three in passes completed were defenders. I am a big believer in possession Football but, if you are just passing between your defenders you are probably not threatening much. And it was a similar trend in all of Holland's disappointing losses in the last two qualifying campaigns.

 

[sunama]

Didn't see the entire match, but it looked like men vs boys. Ajax couldn't cope with our physicality. And that's only for starters.

They are basically like a U23 team.
If you mix youth with experience, it can work, but if you throw an entire U23 team against a senior team (like what we saw yesterday), it's like throwing kids to the wolves.
In any case, to get to the Final Ajax do deserve credit, though MUFC are simply better.

 

[Tincanalley]

Jesus TV3 are so bitter tonight. Win the bloody trophy and they spend the whole time afterwards talking shite about Pogba saying he's been awful. Should never listen to Souness.

Well said. Feckin twit. Well done to the team the staff and manager- you did your city proud. Thrilled.

 

[Tincanalley]

To the ones having a good moan. Just shut the f*ck up.

Class post, sister