[Sheldon69]

Don't get carried away, trying to get points for style has been a vulnerability in Dutch football in the past. But if we compare the success of typical Dutch football as it has been there in the last 50 years to English football, it's obvious that the Dutch have massively overachieved and the English painfully underachieved.

Despite playing their worst match since the beginning of the season, Ajax weren't the underachievers yesterday. With spending 10 times more in transfer fees and 15 times more in wages and having to resort to defensive tactics, giving the initiative away and hoping Ajax won't suddenly start playing like they did before is not really something to boast about. It's not really a sign of strength, it something clubs like WBA do because they can't do the harder stuff. Schone might take his hat off for the way United did it, to me the cynical fouls, theatrics, and all kinds of time wasting like getting the handbags out to prevent Ajax from starting to play their game was not something to be proud of. Not if it was necessary to win and certainly not when it wasn't. It's methods like that made Mourinho successfull in the past, but I didn't expect referees to still let that happen.

What !! Ffs

 

[Rams]

Its funny that the English get criticized for their neanderthal ways of playing while the dutch get praise despite both of them being cults in the way they view football. I see the dutch tradition as pathetic as the english tradition of hoofing it and having a go. A combination of naivety and arrogance.

Ajax have fallen as a football club because they didnt adapt to the changing world of football, instead choosing to double down on their losing strategy. There is nothing admirable about that in my opinion.

Cruyff brought the Ajax/Dutch school to Barcelona and they have been quite successful with that style, especially under Pep Guardiola.

 

[Lentwood]

There was a thread, where I got absolutely slated.
Some guy was spouting rubbish that Dolberg is the second coming of {enter name of great striker}.
That Ajax have a beast of CB.
I was ridiculed for saying that I don't buy into this silly hype and that the Dutch league is pretty crap. With with the last 3 Dutch league top scorers: Janssen, Memphis, Finnbogason, each failing spectacularly, when they moved away from the dutch league.

I'm honestly beginning to think that the Dutch in-the-know people, don't actually watch Dutch teams play.

I think the problem most people have is differentiating between a 'good' footballer and an effective footballer.

I see lots of footballers that are 'flat track bullies' and they are easy to spot a mile off. Players like Memphis look fantastic against average opposition but are found badly wanting against better opponents because the tricks and flicks don't come off and they have no Plan B or real substance to their game.

Other players, like Fellaini, Lingard and Herrera have a consistent level and will find it in any side they are put in. Put them in a crap side, they will be crap. Make them a cog in a well-oiled machine and they will perform a job consistently well. Hence why these kinds of player are favoured by the likes of Jose and LvG over the likes of Mata and Martial

Others have that extra class and resilience to always look capable of delivering something, even when the chips are down, even when they or the team are not playing well. See Zlatan, Pogba and most of our players in the 90s/00s

Some rare players are a mix of effective/"flat track bully" in that they deliver very little unless the whole team is set up to get the best out of their strengths and accomadate for their weaknesses. Hence why you get players like Payet who look great at West Ham and Marseille but if we signed him, he would no doubt flop. See Bony at City or basically anybody Liverpool have signed for big money from a PL team

 

[ChaddyP]

LVG would be proud...















of AJAX!

Its stats like this that make me wonder how Jose was even an assistant to LvG at any point in life. They are polar opposites when it comes to football management

 

[Sunny Jim]

I'm genuinely happy you won.

Great to see Jose so pumped after the final whistle.

Thats nice.

 

[Rams]

Don't get carried away, trying to get points for style has been a vulnerability in Dutch football in the past. But if we compare the success of typical Dutch football as it has been there in the last 50 years to English football, it's obvious that the Dutch have massively overachieved and the English painfully underachieved.

Despite playing their worst match since the beginning of the season, Ajax weren't the underachievers yesterday. With spending 10 times more in transfer fees and 15 times more in wages and having to resort to defensive tactics, giving the initiative away and hoping Ajax won't suddenly start playing like they did before is not really something to boast about. It's not really a sign of strength, it something clubs like WBA do because they can't do the harder stuff. Schone might take his hat off for the way United did it, to me the cynical fouls, theatrics, and all kinds of time wasting like getting the handbags out to prevent Ajax from starting to play their game was not something to be proud of. Not if it was necessary to win and certainly not when it wasn't. It's methods like that made Mourinho successfull in the past, but I didn't expect referees to still let that happen.

It makes it even sweeter when we win by annoying the feck out of the opposition without getting out of 2nd gear. Men against boys.

If Ajax are skint, tough luck. Not our fault yer a bunch of small time cheapskates. We've got lots of money, all the kin money you'd ever wished for and more. We can buy who we want at what ever amount they ask without battering an eyelid. And there'a nothing you can do about it!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Don't get carried away, trying to get points for style has been a vulnerability in Dutch football in the past. But if we compare the success of typical Dutch football as it has been there in the last 50 years to English football, it's obvious that the Dutch have massively overachieved and the English painfully underachieved.

Despite playing their worst match since the beginning of the season, Ajax weren't the underachievers yesterday. With spending 10 times more in transfer fees and 15 times more in wages and having to resort to defensive tactics, giving the initiative away and hoping Ajax won't suddenly start playing like they did before is not really something to boast about. It's not really a sign of strength, it something clubs like WBA do because they can't do the harder stuff. Schone might take his hat off for the way United did it, to me the cynical fouls, theatrics, and all kinds of time wasting like getting the handbags out to prevent Ajax from starting to play their game was not something to be proud of. Not if it was necessary to win and certainly not when it wasn't. It's methods like that made Mourinho successfull in the past, but I didn't expect referees to still let that happen.

@TheReligion could it be that Dr.fukinstain's superior football knowledge was so far out of reach to you that it ended up beyond even his own reach?

 

[Macern]

Don't get carried away, trying to get points for style has been a vulnerability in Dutch football in the past. But if we compare the success of typical Dutch football as it has been there in the last 50 years to English football, it's obvious that the Dutch have massively overachieved and the English painfully underachieved.

Despite playing their worst match since the beginning of the season, Ajax weren't the underachievers yesterday. With spending 10 times more in transfer fees and 15 times more in wages and having to resort to defensive tactics, giving the initiative away and hoping Ajax won't suddenly start playing like they did before is not really something to boast about. It's not really a sign of strength, it something clubs like WBA do because they can't do the harder stuff. Schone might take his hat off for the way United did it, to me the cynical fouls, theatrics, and all kinds of time wasting like getting the handbags out to prevent Ajax from starting to play their game was not something to be proud of. Not if it was necessary to win and certainly not when it wasn't. It's methods like that made Mourinho successfull in the past, but I didn't expect referees to still let that happen.

 

[Mihai]

LVG would be proud...















of AJAX!

This game resembles so much the Inter Bayern final. I think the stats are pretty much the same.

 

[Ban]

Dutch do seem a bit arrogant about their football and it's influence.

 

[Rams]

To be fair the Dutch are arrogant

 

[Red Dreams]

"Dr. knows feck all about the game."

 

[Ixion]

Yeah well England invented the game. You're welcome Netherlands.

 

[Red Dreams]

It makes it even sweeter when we win by annoying the feck out of the opposition without getting out of 2nd gear. Men against boys.

If Ajax are skint, tough luck. Not our fault yer a bunch of small time cheapskates. We've got lots of money, all the kin money you'd ever wished for and more. We can buy who we want at what ever amount they ask without battering an eyelid. And there'a nothing you can do about it!

The key point is We earned the money...unlike some....

 

[Red Dreams]

Cruyff brought the Ajax/Dutch school to Barcelona and they have been quite successful with that style, especially under Pep Guardiola.

Total Football is quite different to what Barcelona play.

 

[Turnip]

Watched the highlights again last night because why the feck not, and bit we really bosses them. Pretty clear from the get go that Jose meant to out strength them and with their super pressing they left big spaces else where which we exploited and made really obvious short passes a lot which we intercepted. Tactics worked perfectly and they never really had a good chance the whole match.

lol, sorry I thought you would get that I was going on about the new song we sing at away games "woke up this morning feeling fine, got united on my mind "

Haha sorry, still wasn't with it, too busy grinning to myself.

 

[mitchmouse]

I have to admit my overall reaction was more relief than happiness. Not really sure why; it doesn't really matter how you qualify for something: it's like a driving test - it's pass or fail. Of course, it was never going to be like Barcelona in 1999! what the hell is?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I have to admit my overall reaction was more relief than happiness. Not really sure why; it doesn't really matter how you qualify for something: it's like a driving test - it's pass or fail. Of course, it was never going to be like Barcelona in 1999! what the hell is?

I wouldn't want it to be like Barcelona in '99. We were played off the park, the games should have been out of sight and we don't have Beckham to take corners or Ole and Teddy to poach goals. Wednesday was fine by me.

 

[RuudRuud]

You make some good points but, while it obviously was not a problem early in the competition it does show an issue going on in Dutch Football right now. The match reminded me a lot of Holland's loss to Bulgaria in qualifying. Against United Ajax's top three in passes completed were defenders. I am a big believer in possession Football but, if you are just passing between your defenders you are probably not threatening much. And it was a similar trend in all of Holland's disappointing losses in the last two qualifying campaigns.

It was really hard for Ajax to get through United's defence, especially on the midfield. Teams like Lyon and Schalke gave us space, since they actually wanted to play football. United respected Ajax qualities and played anti-football as a counter measure and it worked.

 

[Android1974]

It was really hard for Ajax to get through United's defence, especially on the midfield. Teams like Lyon and Schalke gave us space, since they actually wanted to play football. United respected Ajax qualities and played anti-football as a counter measure and it worked.

Define anti-football, please. Anything that happens on the pitch is football. Anti-football was passing the ball to the goal-keepers hands, when it was allowed, and it turned games into boring stuff. Now, defining ways of playing which aren't so supposedly stylish as anti-football?

 

[el3mel]

It was really hard for Ajax to get through United's defence, especially on the midfield. Teams like Lyon and Schalke gave us space, since they actually wanted to play football. United respected Ajax qualities and played anti-football as a counter measure and it worked.

You're deluding yourself as most Ajax fans I saw here sadly.

United were just too much for your young team. Accept it and go on with your life.

 

[RuudRuud]

Define anti-football, please. Anything that happens on the pitch is football. Anti-football was passing the ball to the goal-keepers hands, when it was allowed, and it turned games into boring stuff. Now, defining ways of playing which aren't so supposedly stylish as anti-football?

United is playing extremely defensive, aggressive football, they don't want to dictate the game, they let the other team play and react.
It's the type of football that ruined so many people their Tuesday and Wednesday evening Champions League games.
Honestly, it's the least attractive football you can play and your coach (Mourinho) is the best at playing it.
It's a good thing you win prizes with this style or else it would be horrible to watch a full year of these kind of games.

 

[NinjaZombie]

United is playing extremely defensive, aggressive football, they don't want to dictate the game, they let the other team play and react.
It's the type of football that ruined so many people their Tuesday and Wednesday evening Champions League games.
Honestly, it's the least attractive football you can play and your coach (Mourinho) is the best at playing it.
It's a good thing you win prizes with this style or else it would be horrible to watch a full year of these kind of games.

We dictated the game. You and your team just didn't realise it. And still don't, from the looks of it.

 

[Android1974]

United is playing extremely defensive, aggressive football, they don't want to dictate the game, they let the other team play and react.
It's the type of football that ruined so many people their Tuesday and Wednesday evening Champions League games.
Honestly, it's the least attractive football you can play and your coach (Mourinho) is the best at playing it.
It's a good thing you win prizes with this style or else it would be horrible to watch a full year of these kind of games.

This is too much for me, but let me just tell you're completely wrong about United having let Ajax play. United let Ajax have possession indeed, but it was completely useless for them, almost no penetration whatsoever, they were completely out of their depth. Football is also about not letting the adversary play the way they want (and should) when they have the ball. To dictate the game isn't a moral obligation, you football prudes!

 

[el3mel]

Ajax style of play against us reminded me of LvG style with us these last 2 terrible seasons. Boring possessions with less than 2 shots on target. No doubt for me now that he gave them some advice about how to play against us. Glad for that btw.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

It was really hard for Ajax to get through United's defence, especially on the midfield. Teams like Lyon and Schalke gave us space, since they actually wanted to play football. United respected Ajax qualities and played anti-football as a counter measure and it worked.

Ajax were not moving the ball around quick enough to open us up.

 

[NotQuiteManc]

It's simple really. Plenty of ways to play football. The possession based dutch style, the Klopp gegenpressing style, the counter attacking style of SAF etc.

In the final, Maureen knew how to counter Ajax main tactic and players like Fellaini played it to a T, and then some. Did you guys see his Cruyff turn? If that's not entertaining football, I would't watch the sport anymore!

Fair play to Fellaini he improved a lot on his first touches and close control this past few months.

 

[jackofalltrades]

Must say I expected more from Ajax after all the goals they scored against Lyon. I missed the first 10 minutes of the final and the TV went on the blink a couple of times so I can only wonder if our keeper had to do anything but catch the ball ? Ajax has an extremely young side so maybe that's part of the reason they didn't do much in front of goal.

I thought we played as if we were defending a 2-0 lead, just contain and counter now and then.

 

[RuudRuud]

We dictated the game. You and your team just didn't realise it. And still don't, from the looks of it.

Sorry, but playing reactionary is by definition not dictating.

Ajax were not moving the ball around quick enough to open us up.

Yes, Mourinho made it impossible for Ajax to play. He put 11 United players in front of the Ajax defenders and Ajax didn't have the quality to break that defense.

Ajax style of play against us reminded me of LvG style with us these last 2 terrible seasons. Boring possessions with less than 2 shots on target. No doubt for me now that he gave them some advice about how to play against us. Glad for that btw.

As I said United made it a boring, terrible game. Their anti-football tactics worked, it killed the game and they won the prize.

 

[el3mel]

As I said United made it a boring, terrible game. Their anti-football tactics worked, it killed the game and they won the prize.

Yeah just like what Juve did with Monaco. This is the end of any non-tactical young side trying to take on a mature tactical team, not terrible teams as Lyon.

Keep deluding yourself.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Sorry, but playing reactionary is by definition not dictating.



Yes, Mourinho made it impossible for Ajax to play. He put 11 United players in front of the Ajax defenders and Ajax didn't have the quality to break that defense.



As I said United made it a boring, terrible game. Their anti-football tactics worked, it killed the game and they won the prize.

Well that is the key isn't?

 

[NinjaZombie]

Sorry, but playing reactionary is by definition not dictating.



Yes, Mourinho made it impossible for Ajax to play. He put 11 United players in front of the Ajax defenders and Ajax didn't have the quality to break that defense.



As I said United made it a boring, terrible game. Their anti-football tactics worked, it killed the game and they won the prize.

"Control" is one of the synonyms of the word "dictate." As the game wore on, and your players side pass their ways around our box, and your wingers cut inside to find themselves in cul de sacs, rarely did I felt we didn't have control of the game. The game looked like most of our games under Van Gaal last season, only this time, we were on the other side, thank god.

You're one of those football fans who think possession means control, and having most of it automatically means you play the "better" football, do you?

 

[ChaddyP]

Sorry, but playing reactionary is by definition not dictating.



Yes, Mourinho made it impossible for Ajax to play. He put 11 United players in front of the Ajax defenders and Ajax didn't have the quality to break that defense.



As I said United made it a boring, terrible game. Their anti-football tactics worked, it killed the game and they won the prize.

Isn't that a bit shit. We purposely let you have the ball because we knew you weren't good enough to hurt us.

I suspect you would have rather us leaving holes and gaps for you to exploit so you could have a better chance.

Pesky Manchester United knew all our weaknesses and used it to their advantage and we had no answer for it. They should have played in a way that was more advantageous to Ajax.

 

[Summit]

There is just no way @Dr. Funkenstein is a United fan.

 

[ChaddyP]

Ajax played exactly like Manchester United under LvG. Risk averse, rigid, side ways passing, Need to have all the ball all the time with zero penetration football.

Ajax didn't try the hard pass or try anything with risk. They wanted us to press them in their attacking third to give them space to pass the ball into the net.

Feck off

I bet Van Gaal thought it was their best game of the season.

Fellaini and Pogba bulldozed their midfield like bowling pins .



our team played 64 fecking games and had about a weeks rest if as much. Playing against a bunch of youthful energetic kids that probably don't even know where the clitoris is and we were to press them and keep a suicidal high Line for 90 mins in a crucial European Final? nah that's ok, if we lose the ball we will wait till you eventually give it back thanks..

 

[Akshay]

Yes, Mourinho made it impossible for Ajax to play. He put 11 United players in front of the Ajax defenders and Ajax didn't have the quality to break that defense.

Your players may have had the quality but your tactics gave you no chance to find out. If you played at a higher tempo, took more risks with the ball instead of prioritizing possession over penetration, maybe you might have created more. Those who don't learn from their mistakes and just blame the opposition's tactics are doomed to repeat their failures.

 

[Catt]

There is just no way @Dr. Funkenstein is a United fan.

He can't be. I could be wrong but he seems disappointed.

 

[AXVnee7]

As I said United made it a boring, terrible game. Their anti-football tactics worked, it killed the game and they won the prize.

The only anti-footballing team was yours, the losers. Pathetic showing that spoiled it for viewers worldwide. We did our part by scoring two goals. You just turned up to make up the numbers.

 

[el3mel]

There is just no way @Dr. Funkenstein is a United fan.

He's still posting what he was saying before the game ? I gave him the solid " ignore " long ago.

 

[Summit]

He's still posting what he was saying before the game ? I gave him the solid " ignore " long ago.

Yup. Worse tbh