[acrebo]

Arsenal were sensational for the first 20 minutes today, we were dreadful. After that, the game kind of took its normal course, we were shocked and gradually regained our composure whilst Arsenal continued to fashion chances on the break but resorted to being their usual wasteful selves. I've a feeling it's a freak result for both teams and not a catalyst.

Hopefully it results in some fairly wholesale changes for a while - Jones back in defence and Blind out to LB, Carrick back to the bench in place of Schneiderlin and maybe, just, maybe we'll see a bit of variety up front. I want Mata in the 10 role behind Martial with Valencia and Young on the wings. Yeah, they may be unfashionable players nowadays but they seem more reliable than the likes of Depay and Rooney.

Let the World think that Arsenal are now a great side and apparently "Man City's closest challengers". We gave them the win today and they barely had to the break sweat. If the can hit those heights regularly throughout the season then they can be called title challengers. But they won't.

 

[Kakeru]

LVG made it clear in his interview that the team as a whole pretty much ignored what they had been working on. Whether it was complacency or just thinking on the international week who knows but it backfired big time.

That doesn't quite explain why none of the 3 magi on the bench moved his ass to the touchlines and start barking fecking instructions. What the hell are they paid to do during matches anyway if they sit there doing feck all when it matters during matches?

 

[marlowe78]

That doesn't quite explain why none of the 3 magi on the bench moved his ass to the touchlines and start barking fecking instructions. What the hell are they paid to do during matches anyway if they sit there doing feck all when it matters during matches?

That is what really kills me. That first half could've become monumental if we didn't fix things right away, like when Germany overran Brazil during the World Cup. Somebody needed to assert himself on the touchline and restore some order. The players don't have time to work it out on the pitch themselves. Rooney, BTW, gets zero grades for his role in that.

 

[Acole9]

In the first 30 minutes Arsenal were frighteningly good, I've not seen them play like that for a long time. I thought at one point we was going to get hammered by them.

As much as Arsenal were sensational we were very bad, the midfield was all over the place and left huge gaps for Arsenal to exploit. I think at half time if van Gaal could've subbed half the team out there he would've done.

As for the second half it was much better than the first half but then again it couldn't have got much worse. It still wasn't good enough though as I think we should've most definitely pulled at least one goal back.

 

[United22]

This really was a case of us making Arsenal look much much better than they actually were. If they played like this all the time then they would probably be contenders for the PL and CL.

 

[sammsky1]

LVG post match remarks:

“I didn’t expect that,” Van Gaal said. “I was surprised – not performing to our gameplan, not the will to win. I have not seen that, when you are top of the league [as United were at the beginning of the weekend]. So I was surprised, amazed – maybe that is a better word.

“When you give a team like Arsenal so much space to play football, then you know you will lose. We prepared ourselves to play more compact and not losing our aggression, so it was amazing for me. I am very disappointed.”

Van Gaal said that he had no explanation for what had happened at the outset, when Arsenal tore through his team, with Alexis Sánchez scoring either side of Mesut Özil’s goal. “I don’t know why it happened, I put the question at half-time and after the match. It is difficult for the players to answer at the moment, because they are all in an emotional moment. We have lost, and lost in a way that you cannot lose when you are top of the league.

“The problems did not start at the back, they started in midfield. Their midfield players, especially Cazorla and Özil, had too much time and space. We also had space behind our defence. When you always put the pressure on, they cannot make their passes so easily. That was our problem in the first half.

“They were not aggressive. And you have to do it not only with the two in midfield but as a team. You have to be more compact. You need aggression at the moment you have a duel and Arsenal were much more aggressive.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football...nchester-united-louis-van-gaal-premier-league

 

[VorZakone]

Those first 20-30 minutes from Arsenal were unreal, how the hell did they turn it on like that? The intensity in their play was ridicilous.

 

[marlowe78]

LVG post match remarks:

“I didn’t expect that,” Van Gaal said. “I was surprised – not performing to our gameplan, not the will to win. I have not seen that, when you are top of the league [as United were at the beginning of the weekend]. So I was surprised, amazed – maybe that is a better word.

“When you give a team like Arsenal so much space to play football, then you know you will lose. We prepared ourselves to play more compact and not losing our aggression, so it was amazing for me. I am very disappointed.”

Van Gaal said that he had no explanation for what had happened at the outset, when Arsenal tore through his team, with Alexis Sánchez scoring either side of Mesut Özil’s goal. “I don’t know why it happened, I put the question at half-time and after the match. It is difficult for the players to answer at the moment, because they are all in an emotional moment. We have lost, and lost in a way that you cannot lose when you are top of the league.

“The problems did not start at the back, they started in midfield. Their midfield players, especially Cazorla and Özil, had too much time and space. We also had space behind our defence. When you always put the pressure on, they cannot make their passes so easily. That was our problem in the first half.

“They were not aggressive. And you have to do it not only with the two in midfield but as a team. You have to be more compact. You need aggression at the moment you have a duel and Arsenal were much more aggressive.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football...nchester-united-louis-van-gaal-premier-league

Does he remember 3-0 against Everton away, another time when we didn't bother to show up?

There seems to be a major blind spot in planning and expectation with this guy.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Does he remember 3-0 against Everton away, another time when we didn't bother to show up?

There seems to be a major blind spot in planning and expectation with this guy.

The fact he mentions the midfield, could it be we were outnumbered. That Memphis offers nothing defensively.

 

[acrebo]

And leaving our best protector on the bench was a mistake. Why Schneiderlin wasn't starting is beyond me. And Schweinsteiger was found out with his lack of mobility.

I agree with all you say apart from the bit about Schweinsteiger. It was him being 'too' mobile that cost us today, he left Carrick and went searching for the press on Cazorla over and over again that left space behind him. I'd like to see the stats on how much ground he covered compared to all our other players today as I think he did his fair share of running.

If anything, he wasn't disciplined enough at the start and got too caught up in the "impose myself in this tough English rivalry" mentality. He chased lost causes too often which left gaps behind him which Rooney seemingly couldn't be arsed to fill.

Carrick is the one lacking pace and mobility unfortunately. The amount of touches he needed whenever he received the ball was excruciating to watch.

 

[RoadTrip]

Not prepared sums this up.

This is arsenal. Away. This is a big game for them. You simply cannot expect them to start slowly. Any big away game against a top team, you must expect a fast start.

I'm just surprised because this isn't a typical failure under LVG. He's been good in big games.

So maybe it bis a freak result. But in context you have to wonder if there are some underlying issues showing up here. I hope not. But we move on, regroup and hopefully in our next few games which are also big games we learn quickly.

 

[RoadTrip]

I agree with all you say apart from the bit about Schweinsteiger. It was him being 'too' mobile that cost us today, he left Carrick and went searching for the press on Cazorla over and over again that left space behind him. I'd like to see the stats on how much ground he covered compared to all our other players today as I think he did his fair share of running.

If anything, he wasn't disciplined enough at the start and got too caught up in the "impose myself in this tough English rivalry" mentality. He chased lost causes too often which left gaps behind him which Rooney seemingly couldn't be arsed to fill.

Carrick is the one lacking pace and mobility unfortunately. The amount of touches he needed whenever he received the ball was excruciating to watch.

I disagree. Your central midfielders cannot just sit deep against arsenal. If there is any team in the PL who will kill a team trying to stay deep it is arsenal.

More importantly, it's not about yards covered. Schweini may have covered yardage but if he's always a few steps off the pace he will get beat when pressing. Schneiderlin who is just comfortably more mobile may have got that pressure on the ball.

Ultimately the team has to press collectively. You can't blame any one single player.

 

[Rezyuz]

The fact he mentions the midfield, could it be we were outnumbered. That Memphis offers nothing defensively.

Lets be honest here, Memphis doesn't need to have defensive tasks if the team performs fine. Memphis is a forward (LW not the english LM winger). He played shit, but i dont agree on his defensive mistakes. Our backs and midfield was 10x worse then Memphis defensive wise. Start there.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

I agree with all you say apart from the bit about Schweinsteiger. It was him being 'too' mobile that cost us today, he left Carrick and went searching for the press on Cazorla over and over again that left space behind him. I'd like to see the stats on how much ground he covered compared to all our other players today as I think he did his fair share of running.

The fact of though he got nowhere near Cazorla despite going after him. Now I don't think Schneiderlin would have been so poor in denying him? So despite trying to get around the field he didn't have the pace or legs to make a difference?

Too often he was caught up field and was not able to get back.

While I'm not trying to say that Schweinsteiger is a sloth he's not the quickest and given the pace Arsenal have was not the right choice today. I think maybe that's a fair comment?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We could have played another hour and we'd still be struggling to score. That's an issue we've had all season, where we're too slow, not penetrative enough, and too happy to play in front of the defence.

When you find yourself 3-0 up against a team that plays in this way it's a pretty good situation to be in. Nobody's denying we were better in the second half, but I don't think you can read too much into our 2nd half performance when the game was over as a contest.

Under the best Ferguson teams, opponents would expect a backlash, they'd know that they have to be wary because we're going to throw everything into getting something back, but 'imposing' ourselves on to opponents these means the exact same thing regardless of scoreline, situation, time left. Unless we resort to our Plan B, which is just lumping it into Fellaini. I'm actually quite pleased I didn't have to watch that today, if i'm honest.

You didnt watch it and your here telling me our 2ND half performance didt mean a thing? Seriously? The "contest was over" is a lame excuse. The score was 3 nil with in 20 mins yet they were queing up to make it double that all through that half. They didnt sit back by choice! They did so rather because we finally played like we shoukd have from the start: doing our jobs. We passed it better, pressed as a team and gave all their passers no space to hurts us or get behind us with the ease of first half. And Arsenal tried all half long. Bottom line our first 20 mintues performance and first half shambles cost us that game. 2nd half we were a different team against a team high on confidence and defending very well. We should give credit to their defending rather than dissing our second half play.

 

[utdalltheway]

Poor 1st 20 mins from us when we couldn't match their vigor. Chalk it down and move on.

Noticed at the end how many of ours and theirs were hugging each other.
Made me pine for the days of Keane and Viera.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Walcott's gone for the proper full-on Arsenal gobshite mode in a big way since getting his mitts on the 14 shirt.

That happened about seven years ago.

 

[Butty19]

Another poor start akin to the one at Southampton. We needed energy and legs in midfield but started with two over 30 year olds and got totally overrun. It was a game made for Schneiderlin, strange decision for me.

I'm sick of slagging off Rooney, I expected him to be shite and he didn't disappoint.

 

[RedRover]

We could have played another hour and we'd still be struggling to score. That's an issue we've had all season, where we're too slow, not penetrative enough, and too happy to play in front of the defence.

When you find yourself 3-0 up against a team that plays in this way it's a pretty good situation to be in. Nobody's denying we were better in the second half, but I don't think you can read too much into our 2nd half performance when the game was over as a contest.

Under the best Ferguson teams, opponents would expect a backlash, they'd know that they have to be wary because we're going to throw everything into getting something back, but 'imposing' ourselves on to opponents these means the exact same thing regardless of scoreline, situation, time left. Unless we resort to our Plan B, which is just lumping it into Fellaini. I'm actually quite pleased I didn't have to watch that today, if i'm honest.

Sums it up for me.

Keeping the ball is fine if you do anything with it. We're too slow at moving it, lack ideas are predictable and easy to defend against. We rely heavily on a bit of magic from someone and if that doesn't happen we'll spend all game trying to thread the ball through bodies as teams defend in numbers.

We need more pace and someone to play as a no 10 who can be relied upon to be a danger to the opposition. I'd stick Mata in there to do the job Cazorla did today for Arsenal - dropping in between the lines and making things happen.

This has been on the cards for a while today. We're not great at the back without Shaw - the weakness today was evident. It's bad how light we are at the back.

The Fellaini thing is spot on. Moyes got serious grief for it but it's a regular under Van Gaal as well - bring him on, win headers and more second balls in midfield and then start slinging in diagonal crosses towards him later I the game. Easy for good sides to defend against.

And we're frighteningly reliant on Martial for goals. He is though our most threatening player most of the time.

 

[Scorpy]

That was extremely painful to watch, I'm still recovering from the result/performance and it really feels like f*cking shit.

In the first half hour I felt like the ground should open up and just swallow me. I couldn't believe how shit we were playing and was fearing a result much worse than 3-0. The game was over when it became 3-0 and then I just hoped for a consolation goal or two, but couldn't really see us scoring apart from that Martial chance, which was more of a Cech save/good positioning than a Martial miss.

We were absolutely battered in the first 30 minutes. Our midfield was non-existant and we crumbled under Arsenal's immense pressure. They took full advantage of our tendency to start games very slow, to need time to get into the game. It was the same against Southampton where they were very close to leading 2-0 in the beginning of the game and it was the same against Wolfsburg where our defence was asleep for Caligiuri's goal. Arsenal were clinical and took their chances. Their goals were all very well done from start to finish. They started with huge pressure and I don't think we even strung two consecutive passes before their first goal. We should have done much better to kill their momentum. Keeping the ball would have been perfect, but as that wasn't really an option in the first 10 minutes, at least fecking foul an Arsenal player so the game could slow down a bit. Feck's sake.

In the second half we were in ''control'', but that was mostly due to Arsenal letting us have the ball and waiting for chances to counter. They still had a couple of very good opportunities to score a fourth, even before Oxlade hitting the bar in the end. We had the ball, but unsurprisingly didn't create much. There was almost zero cutting edge, speed and creativity, but the players were obviously shocked from the way the game had pan out. They only have themselves to blame, though. Yes, Van Gaal fecked up by playing Young at leftback and mostly by choosing as a pair Carrick and Schweinsteiger (leaving Schneiderlin on the bench in a game like this is mental), but the players should have done much better.

Sanchez and Ozil were playing out of their skins in the first half. Sanchez completely destroyed Darmian on the wing and even though he was a bit lucky to get past him for the third goal, his shot was brilliant. Ozil played one of his best games for Arsenal since moving from Real Madrid, he was brilliant, especially in the first half. The whole Arsenal team was great to be fair, it was a complete performance. They were pressing as a team. Two goals down within the first 7-8 minutes, it's safe to say way too many things went wrong for us.

Rooney was decent in the second half, showed some bite, which was good to see, even though he was abysmal in the first half. Fellaini was good, as was Schweiny in the second half. He didn't stop running. Martial was our best player, without a doubt. Amazing talent.

Memphis was piss poor. Darmian had a nightmare. Carrick was shit as well - he's way too slow on the ball. It takes him a fecking century to make a simple pass and is already misplacing most of his long-range passes. Shouldn't be starting such games let alone paired with Schweinsteiger.

All in all, a really disappointing performance and result. We were spineless and never looked capable of maintaining some pressure on their defence, let alone turning it around/scoring a couple of goals. Now we have to endure a tedious 2 week break from club football and then an away game vs Everton awaits us. Can't really say I'm optimistic as it's one of the toughest fixtures for us. Playing at Goodison park is always difficult and I'm not really looking forward to seeing Everton pressing us with intensity, speed and aggression. We'll have to start the game much more focused and try not to misplace so many fecking passes which would lead to dangerous counter attacks. The players will have to prove that they have balls. Everton will look to bully us and we can't let that happen.

 

[RedStarUnited]

First half it felt like a continuation of the CL game. We ended that game as bad as we started this game.

 

[DJ Jeff]

There's nowhere else to put this, and this thread seems best, but feck off international football. feck your shit fixtures of also-ran plumbers against half-arsed professionals, feck your shit overhyped tournaments, feck your less than the sum of the parts teams, feck your apathetic false nationality converts. Just feck off. No one fecking wants you. No one fecking likes you. Even the Spanish and the Germans just want club football to continue. Just. feck. Off.

Sorry, just hate the international breaks. Especially when we lose before them.

 

[Scorpy]

There's nowhere else to put this, and this thread seems best, but feck off international football. feck your shit fixtures of also-ran plumbers against half-arsed professionals, feck your shit overhyped tournaments, feck your less than the sum of the parts teams, feck your apathetic false nationality converts. Just feck off. No one fecking wants you. No one fecking likes you. Even the Spanish and the Germans just want club football to continue. Just. feck. Off.

Sorry, just hate the international breaks. Especially when we lose before them.

yep, that's how I feel as well. Going into an internation break after a loss is such a shit feeling.

Feels like there's a fecking international break every three games or so.

 

[montpelier]

That happened about seven years ago.

Yeah, well... , he proper annoys me. Used to be fairly likeable too. That England hat trick might have had something to do it too - fits this 7 year timescale, innit?

 

[Gerald G]

The game plan was a shambles. The obvious way to beat Arsenal is to sit back and counter as it's happened so many times over the years. I couldn't understand our game plan.

We decided to get our central midfielders to close down their midfielders and press them highly but it was useless as they slipped it around and our defence didn't push up to press so they had plenty of space. Another problem with this is that Ramsey kept on drifting inside and Young didn't want to follow so he would almost become another midfielder just drifting there free with plenty of space.

Not just this but players under-performed. Darmian was poor so was Blind and many other players in our team. We need to drop Rooney and go to a 4-3-3 in the bigger games at least plus Jones in the CB position and Blind to left back. Our defence on paper was a a complete shambles. Blind is good playing at CB vs the lesser sides but he's been exposed against good attacking sides.

Something like this vs the bigger sides and tough away games. Vs Everton this is who we should go with if Herrera is fit..

Schneiderlin
Schweinsteiger--Herrera​

 

[RedFish]

Completely smashed us. They're a good team and started the game superbly. Reminded me of when we beat Liverpool 1-3 at Anfield last season when we started the game wit aggression and precision. It's obviously not nice to be on the receiving end but we'll come back from this, just like Arsenal did from their 'disastrous' CL match against Olympiacos.

 

[Will Singh]

Bad day at the office, although we got hammered we are still in a good position. Problem is LVG will will go back to defensive football and will be happy with 1-0 rather then the goal scoring form we was in prior to fecking Arsenal!

 

[ThierryHenry]

Yeah, well... , he proper annoys me. Used to be fairly likeable too. That England hat trick might have had something to do it too - fits this 7 year timescale, innit?

He just has a permanently smug look on his face when things are going well. Can see why it'd wind anyone up! He's a boringly nice fella though, for a footballer he's a saint.

 

[Archie Leach]

Yeah, well... , he proper annoys me. Used to be fairly likeable too. That England hat trick might have had something to do it too - fits this 7 year timescale, innit?

Walcott's incredibly likeable and one of the most well spoken players in the league.

 

[Archie Leach]

He just has a permanently smug look on his face when things are going well. Can see why it'd wind anyone up! He's a boringly nice fella though, for a footballer he's a saint.

He also writes atrocious children's books.

And an autobiography by 24.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Only got back to watch the second half so missed most of the pain, it was quite odd to see it from the second half only perspective, because to me we looked in complete control, and were playing our usual pass it backwards, pass it sideways game, interspersed with a few decent attacks.

Smalling looked immense, and Martial head and shoulders our best attacker.

All pretty meaningless I know because Arsenal obvioulsy stepped off the gas, but odd all the same for the losing team to be playing this way.

 

[JTW95]

I couldn't watch the game as I was at Wembley but after Arsenals midweek shambles I knew that something like this would happen.

I only saw they highlights on MOTD but they just looked so much more determined than us. Walcott, Ozil and Sanchez were awesome but at the same time we looked so poor and lethargic.

While resting key players in Europe may have caused Arsenal to suffer I think it helped them out here. They were fresher and had more fight. They deserved the win. Hopefully we can bounce back.

 

[ThierryHenry]

He also writes atrocious children's books.

And an autobiography by 24.

I flicked through one in a shop once, so, so terrible.

 

[montpelier]

OK, he's hardly the worst, and pushed to suggest there's much malice about him

but he's a funny player though, innit? - still on Theo

occasionally unplayable but seemingly unable to do the easy stuff some of the rest of the time

 

[Moriarty]

Bad day at the office, although we got hammered we are still in a good position. Problem is LVG will will go back to defensive football and will be happy with 1-0 rather then the goal scoring form we was in prior to fecking Arsenal!

That's what happened after the Leicester debacle last year and Van Gaal doesn't take too kindly to getting pasted. Wouldn't be too bad if we weren't short of cover at the back.

 

[sunama]

Our away form:

Played 6
Won 3
Drawn 0
Lost 3
Scored 10
Conceded 10

Away games have been our problem ever since LVG took over.
I'm not sure why this is the case, but it is.
Generally, when I predict scores I generally say a win at home (we have the best home form of the EPL) and a loss/draw away.

As I've said for a while now, we are very slow during our build-up and there is never any urgency. There is no need to make 45 passes to have a shot at goal. And against top teams you'll never be allowed to make 45 passes.

 

[sdb4884]

Everton away next......

 

[DOTA]

It was a game taking no points from was always quite likely but to be blown away and not have fought back is telling.

We're not very good.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Cheers:

• We have Martial and they don't
• The third kit looks much better with the black shorts
• We were never going to keep up with City on goal difference anyway

Jeers:

• I don't even know what to do with this section
• Is the Bastian/Carrick combo as good as it appears on paper?
• My Tinder match couldn't get away from work tonight.

 

[Sylar]

Starting with Basti, Carrick and Rooney as our central three was suicide.

Going against the plan that has worked for the last 10 years (pack the centre, and hit them on the counter) was mad. Their players like quick passing and space. If you dont allow that, they arent going to be crossing the ball into the box.

Regardless, congrats to Arsenal, deserved win for them.
United need to bounce back and need to freshen things up otherwise the same thing will happen against Everton.