[DomesticTadpole]

Enough that we shouldn't be absolutely spanked by you! Carrick and Schweinsteiger starting together was a huge error.

We have pace with Valencia, Young, Darmian, Smalling, Memphis and Martial. And let's be honest I don't think Cazorla, Ozil and a couple of your lads are blessed with out and out pace? They just were in comparison with the players LVG selected.

David is a Charlton fan.

 

[The-Natural]

Pressing starts from the front, Rooney never once got close to Cazorla and it's not the first time he's been a complete disaster when up again a very talented deep lying playmaker. Schweinsteiger was playing higher up the pitch than him trying to do his job (and Memphis' to some degree). It's bad enough he's were most of our attacks go to die but when he's become a liability defensively it's time to be dropped.

There's enough "Rooney is shit get him sold" comments to go around (which I agree with) but let's take an honest look at his history and performances. Vs Italy you could see Joe Hart screaming at him to pick up Pirlo who ended up dominating the game and Italy won, vs Barca in the Champions League final SAF gave him a bollocking on the sideline because he was non existent in stopping Busquets then when we got drawn against Real Madrid + Xabi Alonso he was dropped from the side al together in favour of Welbeck specifically because he was trusted to do a job on him.

Yesterday's performance shouldn't really be any surprise. There's a list of terrible narratives that get thrown around by his mates in the press like "the last street footballer" to justify the fact he really just does whatever he wants and has a very low tactical IQ. If you had a poll on the caf pre KO as to who Rooney should be picking up to stop Arsenal building attacks who would you pick Cazorla or Coq? It's not difficult but it's a perfect example of how poorly he understands the 10 role.

Going forward I'd like to see him dropped and use a 4-3-3 with Schneiderlin holding and Herrera/Schweinsteiger ahead of him. Schneiderlin has loads of experience under Pochettino/Koeman of playing in a pressing side as does Ander with Bielsa, Schweinsteiger has more experience of playing in that type of side than anyone else in the squad. Playing with 1 holding CM in a 4-3-3 means you have 2 MF's (in this example Herrera/Schweinsteiger) higher up the pitch and in a better position to press than in a 4-2-3-1 with 2 holders. Playing 2 holders with Rooney in the 10 expected to lead the charge is a disaster and will be exposed vs the better sides as it was yesterday. When we had our great run at the end of last season it was playing with 1 holder (Carrick) and 2 CM ahead of him (Ander,Fellaini) so I see no reason why we couldn't revert to it other than hurting Rooney's feelings.

this this this this this this

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

chim chimney chim chimney chim chim chiroo. Rooney's been playing like an off form Giroud......

 

[marlowe78]

That's a really good observation and one that we all feared after the Wolfsburg game. Is it possible that our players are struggling so early in the season?

You make the point about Arsenal seeming to be twice the pace and I've noticed a lot of teams seem faster than us. I think that's down to our possession based methodical approach though? Arsenal and others pass the ball around with real zip whereas we don't. Our passes are slow and to feet to a stationary player. The player receiving the ball takes a few touches before passing it on. And yet when we've played our best stuff it's been because we've injected pace and purpose to our passing. So why aren't we doing that more in games?

I think fatigue has already set in, which goes back to what @Tincanalley was saying about the reduced squad size. A lot, and I mean a whole lot, of posters voiced concerns after the transfer window closed and we saw how few players we were left with. I think in principle, most of us agreed that the players who left weren't good enough (Evans, Hernandez) or stayed fit long enough (Rafael, Evans again) but we were left with no cover for the starting XI. We are now in four competitions that we're treating seriously instead of one or two so the level of attrition is going to be much higher with half as many players available.

I agree that we can definitely be playing faster than we are, even for how slow several of our attacking players are thought to be. I think LVG is paranoid about being counterattacked after the Leicester game and he may become worse after this result. Of course, I think he has good reason to feel this way because we are vulnerable with Blind as a CB, but he can only blame himself for putting him there in such a major game.

 

[711]

Too many matches for the squad size may well be a problem later in the season but dear god not with the season less than a quarter gone. Training methods are another matter, that's possible, but if so then some of the experienced players should be aware of that, and their opinions will come out in due course.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

A lot, and I mean a whole lot, of posters voiced concerns after the transfer window closed and we saw how few players we were left with. I think in principle, most of us agreed that the players who left weren't good enough (Evans, Hernandez) or stayed fit long enough (Rafael, Evans again) but we were left with no cover for the starting XI.

LVG was always taking a risk by reducing the size of the squad in a pretty drastic way. Yes OK a lot weren't good enough but sometimes it's a numbers game.

With LVG seemingly taking the League cup seriously that is going to ask a lot of the squad. Can people seriously tell me that Hernandez wouldn't be good enough to play against Ipswich and Middlesborough etc in the league cup?

Januzaj right now would be having a real big impact on our attack and yet he's on loan.

We're relying on Schweinsteiger and Carrick staying fit in midfield otherwise that's going to be another concern. And let's be honest neither have stayed fit for a full season for quite a while now. Hopefully rotating them will help.

Right now if we lost Martial we are absolutely knackered and that's a sad situation! He's the only threat we've got in attack. The only one with pace and he's making those around him play slightly better. My god if we hadn't signed him I dread to think where we'd be.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

What's all this stuff about aggression? A word i can not remember being used in any sensible analysis of any game. LVG used it probably wrongly given his less than fluent grasp of English and now people come out with it.

As for slow starts? What are you on about? Man Utd were famous for ripping through teams from the off.

Why not give credit where credit is due? Arsenal were impressive doing to you what you used to do to them?

Dude what are you on about?
1. United had zero aggression in those first 20 minutes. Denying it is silly. Especially when blatant evidence like Darmian's toe poke attempt of a tackle on Alexis that led to goal number 3 exists.
2. Every game this season save for the newcastle one United have started VERY slowly in the EPL. Even in Europe. So you alone know where you saw this "famous for getting at teams" business is from. Unless you still think SAF is the manager?

3. Why should I spend time on here giving credit to Arsenal, on a United forum discussing the mistakes United made that Arsenal exploited so ruthlesly? It would only make sense to be crediting them if it was unbridled brillance, rather than mistake punishing that got them the win.

 

[David Court]

Enough that we shouldn't be absolutely spanked by you! Carrick and Schweinsteiger starting together was a huge error.

We have pace with Valencia, Young, Darmian, Smalling, Memphis and Martial. And let's be honest I don't think Cazorla, Ozil and a couple of your lads are blessed with out and out pace? They just were in comparison with the players LVG selected.

You do realise I support Charlton Athletic?

 

[David Court]

Dude what are you on about?
1. United had zero aggression in those first 20 minutes. Denying it is silly. Especially when blatant evidence like Darmian's toe poke attempt of a tackle on Alexis that led to goal number 3 exists.
2. Every game this season save for the newcastle one United have started VERY slowly in the EPL. Even in Europe. So you alone know where you saw this "famous for getting at teams" business is from. Unless you still think SAF is the manager?

3. Why should I spend time on here giving credit to Arsenal, on a United forum discussing the mistakes United made that Arsenal exploited so ruthlesly? It would only make sense to be crediting them if it was unbridled brillance, rather than mistake punishing that got them the win.

You're deluded

 

[Red Dreams]

Dude what are you on about?
1. United had zero aggression in those first 20 minutes. Denying it is silly. Especially when blatant evidence like Darmian's toe poke attempt of a tackle on Alexis that led to goal number 3 exists.
2. Every game this season save for the newcastle one United have started VERY slowly in the EPL. Even in Europe. So you alone know where you saw this "famous for getting at teams" business is from. Unless you still think SAF is the manager?

3. Why should I spend time on here giving credit to Arsenal, on a United forum discussing the mistakes United made that Arsenal exploited so ruthlesly? It would only make sense to be crediting them if it was unbridled brillance, rather than mistake punishing that got them the win.

you are right. We bent over for them. This Arsenal team is good. Sanchez is their best player and we did everything to help them. If we had got at them, they would have got rattled.

 

[bosnian_red]

You're deluded

In what way? He was 100% right. We lost any 50/50 duel, were last to the loose balls, and just couldn't get the basics right. Lack of aggression is correct. Usually it's not problem, and nobody is saying get stuck in like made, but there was virtually none on show from us. That's the mine reason we lost those opening minutes. That and a lack of organization in the middle.

The only other time united played with that little aggression and determination under van gaal, we lost 3-0 to Everton.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

In what way? He was 100% right. We lost any 50/50 duel, were last to the loose balls, and just couldn't get the basics right. Lack of aggression is correct. Usually it's not problem, and nobody is saying get stuck in like made, but there was virtually none on show from us. That's the mine reason we lost those opening minutes. That and a lack of organization in the middle.

The only other time united played with that little aggression and determination under van gaal, we lost 3-0 to Everton.

Which is our next game. Surely to god he learnt something from the last time we played them.

 

[Red Dreams]

I just looked at the results of the 8 matches we played.
We were slow, allowed teams to get ready for us. And were slow to react to changes teams made. I have been frustrated with every match we have played...yes even the Sunderland one when we could have destroyed them by being aggressive and fast.

Sure Rooney is part of the problem, but to just blame it all on him is short sighted.

The blame lies entirely with how van Gaal has us set up and playing. We have a better squad than 2 years ago under Moyes. Yet in the same fixture we showed lot more guts. Arsenal are no Barcelona. They are not suddenly going to win the league. But if we don't pull our socks up, we wont even get 4th spot.

van Gaal has gone backwards. And I wonder what Giggs input is...other than him playing with the hair on his face.

 

[bosnian_red]

Which is our next game. Surely to god he learnt something from the last time we played them.

Honestly, I don't think it's Van Gaal for that, it's just the players had a collective off day and probably lost their motivation a bit and were more or less guaranteed top 4. We were probably a bit complacent as well (same as yesterday).

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Honestly, I don't think it's Van Gaal for that, it's just the players had a collective off day and probably lost their motivation a bit and were more or less guaranteed top 4. We were probably a bit complacent as well (same as yesterday).

If it's complacency they want their arses kicking, they aren't good enough for that. They might think they are, but they aren't.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You're deluded

You are a pure joke.

 

[David Court]

In what way? He was 100% right. We lost any 50/50 duel, were last to the loose balls, and just couldn't get the basics right. Lack of aggression is correct. Usually it's not problem, and nobody is saying get stuck in like made, but there was virtually none on show from us. That's the mine reason we lost those opening minutes. That and a lack of organization in the middle.

The only other time united played with that little aggression and determination under van gaal, we lost 3-0 to Everton.

The whole premise of his and it seems your argument is that a much superior Utd team failed to beat an admittedly quite good Arsenal team because of a singularly unusually poor performance when had it been the real Utd team that had stepped out at the Emirates doing what they can do, then Arsenal's obvious inferiority would have been yet again confirmed by a convincing win by Utd.

I basically disagree with that premise. You are overlooking the obvious truth which is that you're just not that good and were well beaten by a better team. A result by the way that your previous indifferent performances had been telegraphing a long way back.

The reason you're not as good as you think you are is that LVG is getting you to play a ponderous possession style of play because he understands the limitations of his players. Carrick and Rooney over the hill. Schweinsteiger an overweight and slow previous great who just cannot get up and down the pitch like he used to and surplus to Bayern's needs is just enjoying his last big pay day trading on his past performances.

Young and Darmian are not full backs. A shame about Shaw admittedly, but you'd be deluded into thinking the result would have been much different had he played.

Blind is also slow and not a centre back. Depay is young and raw and is one hopefully for the future. You can't yet pin your hopes on him consistently. Your only 2 good outfield players were Smalling and Martial. Mata is not a wide player nor is he quick, either but at least when moved into the centre he provides some much needed creativity sorely lacking in the first half.

Frankly, the whole is not worse than the sum of the parts. It actually is the sum of the parts.

If you want a historical analogy to the deluded premise of your arguments, it would be the 'lost cause' romanticism of the South after the American Civil War blaming all kinds of irrelevancies like for example, Longstreet's perceived failure at Gettysburg. They lost because of the obvious truths. They were outmanned and out gunned. And it's really all as simple as that.

 

[David Court]

You are a pure joke.

Read above and learn

 

[bosnian_red]

The whole premise of his and it seems your argument is that a much superior Utd team failed to beat an admittedly quite good Arsenal team because of a singularly unusually poor performance when had it been the real Utd team that had stepped out at the Emirates doing what they can do, then Arsenal's obvious inferiority would have been yet again confirmed by a convincing win by Utd.

I basically disagree with that premise. You are overlooking the obvious truth which is that you're just not that good and were well beaten by a better team. A result by the way that your previous indifferent performances had been telegraphing a long way back.

The reason you're not as good as you think you are is that LVG is getting you to play a ponderous possession style of play because he understands the limitations of his players. Carrick and Rooney over the hill. Schweinsteiger an overweight and slow previous great who just cannot get up and down the pitch like he used to and surplus to Bayern's needs is just enjoying his last big pay day trading on his past performances.

Young and Darmian are not full backs. A shame about Shaw admittedly, but you'd be deluded into thinking the result would have been much different had he played.

Blind is also slow and not a centre back. Depay is young and raw and is one hopefully for the future. You can't yet pin your hopes on him consistently. Your only 2 good outfield players were Smalling and Martial. Mata is not a wide player nor is he quick, either but at least when moved into the centre he provides some much needed creativity sorely lacking in the first half.

Frankly, the whole is not worse than the sum of the parts. It actually is the sum of the parts.

If you want a historical analogy to the deluded premise of your arguments, it would be the 'lost cause' romanticism of the South after the American Civil War blaming all kinds of irrelevancies like for example, Longstreet's perceived failure at Gettysburg. They lost because of the obvious truths. They were outmanned and out gunned. And it's really all as simple as that.

Think there's just too much to disagree with here that I can barely be arsed to argue with. Just such a flawed and biased view against United that it's not worth it. Schweinsteiger overweight? Darmian not a fullback? You've clearly seen just the one United game otherwise you'd be speaking with a bit more sense really.

The performance against Arsenal was very obviously just everyone collectively underperforming. What would you put United convincingly outplaying arsenal at Old Trafford last season? Luck? With a much worse team then our current one as well.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Think there's just too much to disagree with here that I can barely be arsed to argue with. Just such a flawed and biased view against United that it's not worth it. Schweinsteiger overweight? Darmian not a fullback? You've clearly seen just the one United game otherwise you'd be speaking with a bit more sense really.

The performance against Arsenal was very obviously just everyone collectively underperforming. What would you put United convincingly outplaying arsenal at Old Trafford last season? Luck? With a much worse team then our current one as well.

I think he's a WUM...

 

[David Court]

Think there's just too much to disagree with here that I can barely be arsed to argue with. Just such a flawed and biased view against United that it's not worth it. Schweinsteiger overweight? Darmian not a fullback? You've clearly seen just the one United game otherwise you'd be speaking with a bit more sense really.

The performance against Arsenal was very obviously just everyone collectively underperforming. What would you put United convincingly outplaying arsenal at Old Trafford last season? Luck? With a much worse team then our current one as well.

Too much to disagree with but nothing to refute........

 

[bosnian_red]

Too much to disagree with but nothing to refute........

Well I mean, what's the point in arguing with someone who clearly never watches United and is instead just judging everything based on preconceived notions about how a player well be. You never heard of darmian before most likely, so you say he's not a fullback or isn't any good. Bayern let go of Schweinsteiger therefore he must be shit and overweight and past it right? Both of those couldn't be more wrong. The truth is, is that Schweinsteiger was a Bayern legend, who always maintained that he wanted to leave them before he was past it as a player so he could have one last challenge somewhere else while he was still a world class player. As he is now. Since he gave them so many years of service, they didn't stand in his way. He wasn't past it at all. He had a tough injury hit season, sure, but ever since he's come back from his injuries he's been brilliant. Runs non-stop every single game, is a great passer of the ball and still the same world class midfielder he's been over the last few years. Then for Darmian, he's been an excellent right back for us so far, and everyone in Serie A was saying how great of a player he is. Having a poor game against an on form Alexis Sanchez doesn't change that. Everyone has off days.

And how is it an obvious truth that Arsenal is better? Where was that quality against Olympiacos, Dinamo Zagreb, Chelsea, Liverpool or West Ham? Where was that quality in the previous 8 games between the two. United never went 9 unbeaten against Arsenal in the league, so Arsenal were simply due a win and a good performance against us. We'll see how they do in game at Old Trafford later on in the season, but I'm quite confident that we'll win. Last season when everyone was saying they're so much better, we picked up 4 points in the league off of them, and completely dominated the game at Old Trafford. Are you just ignoring that?

Or if you want a player by player comparison... Who exactly gets in Uniteds team from Arsenal? Koscielny, Sanchez and one of Ozil/Cazorla for the #10. Nobody else really, if both are fully fit. You can make an argument for Bellerin if you want more of an attacking threat, but Darmian is way ahead of him defensively speaking. The rest, United players dominate that team. 1 bad game between the two doesn't change that at all.

 

[The Purist]

I can't lie, I find myself agreeing with almost all of @David Court had to say; except for the part about Darmian who I think just got run ragged by an elite wing player on the day - can happen to any full back. He's a solid acquisition IMO.

It would be interesting to see how many United fans think they'll finish ahead of Arsenal because it seems like almost all of them believe themselves to be superior to us.. an opinion which I find to be a bit lacking in concrete evidence to support it.

 

[Tomuś]

The whole premise of his and it seems your argument is that a much superior Utd team failed to beat an admittedly quite good Arsenal team because of a singularly unusually poor performance when had it been the real Utd team that had stepped out at the Emirates doing what they can do, then Arsenal's obvious inferiority would have been yet again confirmed by a convincing win by Utd.

I basically disagree with that premise. You are overlooking the obvious truth which is that you're just not that good and were well beaten by a better team. A result by the way that your previous indifferent performances had been telegraphing a long way back.

The reason you're not as good as you think you are is that LVG is getting you to play a ponderous possession style of play because he understands the limitations of his players. Carrick and Rooney over the hill. Schweinsteiger an overweight and slow previous great who just cannot get up and down the pitch like he used to and surplus to Bayern's needs is just enjoying his last big pay day trading on his past performances.

Young and Darmian are not full backs. A shame about Shaw admittedly, but you'd be deluded into thinking the result would have been much different had he played.

You started it reasonably but that post is a shocker. 'Indifferent performances telegraphing a long way back'? We dominated each and every single one of our games till Arsenal and bar 30 mins here and there (PSV, Southampton, Wolfsburg, Swansea) have been playing good football.

Arsenal were the better team comfortably on Sunday but to say they're a better team full stop is as grounded as to say we only lost due to lack of aggression. Time will tell, that was one game that took one of the best Arsenal performances and one of the United's worst I've seen. They won it fair and square and you've got to credit them for that. It was our fourth game under LvG vs Arsenal and we've mostly not been ourselves in each of them. Perhaps their style is difficult for Van Gaal's. I haven't seen people screaming we're miles ahead of City as a team when we thrashed them, though!

P.S. You basically killed any good argument you have in your locker with the 'Darmian is not a full back' claim. Guy is as full back as you can only imagine.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Read above and learn

I learned you are a joke. Yet again

 

[David Court]

I think he's a WUM...

What a WUM

Well I mean, what's the point in arguing with someone who clearly never watches United and is instead just judging everything based on preconceived notions about how a player well be. You never heard of darmian before most likely, so you say he's not a fullback or isn't any good. Bayern let go of Schweinsteiger therefore he must be shit and overweight and past it right? Both of those couldn't be more wrong. The truth is, is that Schweinsteiger was a Bayern legend, who always maintained that he wanted to leave them before he was past it as a player so he could have one last challenge somewhere else while he was still a world class player. As he is now. Since he gave them so many years of service, they didn't stand in his way. He wasn't past it at all. He had a tough injury hit season, sure, but ever since he's come back from his injuries he's been brilliant. Runs non-stop every single game, is a great passer of the ball and still the same world class midfielder he's been over the last few years. Then for Darmian, he's been an excellent right back for us so far, and everyone in Serie A was saying how great of a player he is. Having a poor game against an on form Alexis Sanchez doesn't change that. Everyone has off days.

And how is it an obvious truth that Arsenal is better? Where was that quality against Olympiacos, Dinamo Zagreb, Chelsea, Liverpool or West Ham? Where was that quality in the previous 8 games between the two. United never went 9 unbeaten against Arsenal in the league, so Arsenal were simply due a win and a good performance against us. We'll see how they do in game at Old Trafford later on in the season, but I'm quite confident that we'll win. Last season when everyone was saying they're so much better, we picked up 4 points in the league off of them, and completely dominated the game at Old Trafford. Are you just ignoring that?

Or if you want a player by player comparison... Who exactly gets in Uniteds team from Arsenal? Koscielny, Sanchez and one of Ozil/Cazorla for the #10. Nobody else really, if both are fully fit. You can make an argument for Bellerin if you want more of an attacking threat, but Darmian is way ahead of him defensively speaking. The rest, United players dominate that team. 1 bad game between the two doesn't change that at all.

You're right.

No point in arguing with those unable to see a different point of view.

Let's agree to differ

 

[David Court]

You started it reasonably but that post is a shocker. 'Indifferent performances telegraphing a long way back'? We dominated each and every single one of our games till Arsenal and bar 30 mins here and there (PSV, Southampton, Wolfsburg, Swansea) have been playing good football.

Arsenal were the better team comfortably on Sunday but to say they're a better team full stop is as grounded as to say we only lost due to lack of aggression. Time will tell, that was one game that took one of the best Arsenal performances and one of the United's worst I've seen. They won it fair and square and you've got to credit them for that. It was our fourth game under LvG vs Arsenal and we've mostly not been ourselves in each of them. Perhaps their style is difficult for Van Gaal's. I haven't seen people screaming we're miles ahead of City as a team when we thrashed them, though!

P.S. You basically killed any good argument you have in your locker with the 'Darmian is not a full back' claim. Guy is as full back as you can only imagine.

I thought I ended it reasonably too.

If the only argument you can make is that Darmian is better than I give him credit for. Well, let's see how the season goes and reassess him then.

I guess you agree with me insofar as the rest of your old and slow players are concerned?

 

[Rich_H_1989]

@David Court OK I'm going to have a go at replying to what I considered to be a good post that raised some good points whilst some controversial ideas. But overall it deserves a response. And no I do apologise I didn't know you were a Charlton fan.

The reason you're not as good as you think you are is that LVG is getting you to play a ponderous possession style of play because he understands the limitations of his players. Carrick and Rooney over the hill.

This is a really good point and absolutely spot on. Our play is too ponderous and quite frankly I'm sick of United fans defending it. It's the truth, it's not going to have much success and we all need to realise that. Yes it's being negative but you know what that's sometimes what it takes! If we all remained positive then Moyes would still be boss!

Young and Darmian are not full backs. A shame about Shaw admittedly, but you'd be deluded into thinking the result would have been much different had he played.

Young absolutely isn't a full back though in some games (and this was never going to be one of them) he can get away with it. Darmian on the other hand... Are you for real? Until Sunday the guys looked a great addition and most definitely is a full back. A defensive one yes instead of bombing forwards but yes he's a full back.

Blind is also slow and not a centre back. Depay is young and raw and is one hopefully for the future. You can't yet pin your hopes on him consistently. Your only 2 good outfield players were Smalling and Martial. Mata is not a wide player nor is he quick, either but at least when moved into the centre he provides some much needed creativity sorely lacking in the first half.

Blind is too slow, not physical enough and not big enough... I've said since the start of the season that he'll get found out against pace and power. In our defeats this season that's exactly what's beaten us. He's looked good in some games, decent in others and overall I think he's done better than we all thought. But he's not the long term answer there. The sooner the manager realises that the better.

Nobody likes negativity and yes this forum is sometimes a bit OTT with its criticism. But we aren't competing for the league, we aren't even close and the football is dire. I'd say that's pretty good reason to be negative. Does it mean we aren't true supporters? No it just means we see what's going on without the United tinted glasses.

Maybe Sunday was a blip. Maybe LVG will address the issues and we'll respond. Our track record under him suggests we won't but maybe we will. One thing I'm very sure of though is that we will not win the league or come close under LVG. So let's be realistic about this season. It's going to be a fight to make top 4. Liverpool will now improve, City are the team to beat, Arsenal always get in the top 4 and Chelsea will improve. Add to that Spurs, Everton and maybe even Palace and we have a huge fight on our hands.

 

[Red Dreams]

I used to remember a cretin who supported a small London club that was banned from here. Must be the same WUM with a new computer.

 

[Tincanalley]

Absolutely mental that Rooney is taking more slack than Carrick who was our worst player on the pitch.

Just says it all about this place - personal agendas over sense.

Sense? Are we getting some of that, Ted?

 

[Tomuś]

I thought I ended it reasonably too.

If the only argument you can make is that Darmian is better than I give him credit for. Well, let's see how the season goes and reassess him then.

I guess you agree with me insofar as the rest of your old and slow players are concerned?

It sounds nice but don't forget you said he ain't a full back which is lack of basic knowledge about football. You did't just say he's a mediocre full back which would be a regular knee jerk reaction. That's the difference.

As for the squad, it's not too old for me, seeing that our best 11 would contain one or two 30s and 3 u21 players. Pace is lacking in CM when Schneiderlin isn't playing, which is my major doubt against signing Gundogan. We've plenty of slow-ish, classy players in midfield, we need more pace and power there.

Back-four is pacey when everyone's fit, actually rapid if you replace Blind with Jones. Martial up front is rapid, Depay pretty pacey and Mata's a quick thinker.

 

[Red Dreams]

an ABU who is a WUM...why is this difficult to grasp.

Darmain not a full back is a lie. Proof.

 

[dsch]

The whole premise of his and it seems your argument is that a much superior Utd team failed to beat an admittedly quite good Arsenal team because of a singularly unusually poor performance when had it been the real Utd team that had stepped out at the Emirates doing what they can do, then Arsenal's obvious inferiority would have been yet again confirmed by a convincing win by Utd.

I basically disagree with that premise. You are overlooking the obvious truth which is that you're just not that good and were well beaten by a better team. A result by the way that your previous indifferent performances had been telegraphing a long way back.

The reason you're not as good as you think you are is that LVG is getting you to play a ponderous possession style of play because he understands the limitations of his players. Carrick and Rooney over the hill. Schweinsteiger an overweight and slow previous great who just cannot get up and down the pitch like he used to and surplus to Bayern's needs is just enjoying his last big pay day trading on his past performances.

Young and Darmian are not full backs. A shame about Shaw admittedly, but you'd be deluded into thinking the result would have been much different had he played.

Blind is also slow and not a centre back. Depay is young and raw and is one hopefully for the future. You can't yet pin your hopes on him consistently. Your only 2 good outfield players were Smalling and Martial. Mata is not a wide player nor is he quick, either but at least when moved into the centre he provides some much needed creativity sorely lacking in the first half.

Frankly, the whole is not worse than the sum of the parts. It actually is the sum of the parts.

If you want a historical analogy to the deluded premise of your arguments, it would be the 'lost cause' romanticism of the South after the American Civil War blaming all kinds of irrelevancies like for example, Longstreet's perceived failure at Gettysburg. They lost because of the obvious truths. They were outmanned and out gunned. And it's really all as simple as that.

Highlighted the bits which are not worth engaging with (which isn't that much).

Do agree that Shaw wouldn't have changed much if the rest of the team played like they did.

About the rest, you seem to be trying to fit each player into a preconceived idea of a tactical system without taking into account the roles LVG is asking each of them to play.

As for the Civil War analogy ...

 

[Eboue]

Why do some people on this forum so often resort to calling people who disagree with them wums?

 

[Red Dreams]

I can't lie, I find myself agreeing with almost all of @David Court had to say; except for the part about Darmian who I think just got run ragged by an elite wing player on the day - can happen to any full back. He's a solid acquisition IMO.

It would be interesting to see how many United fans think they'll finish ahead of Arsenal because it seems like almost all of them believe themselves to be superior to us.. an opinion which I find to be a bit lacking in concrete evidence to support it.

well of course you would agree with anyone who thinks you are the new Barcelona. Sanchez is your best player and he had no one pressing against him to keep him back. Basic fault by van Gaal. Mata is not a winger. We were desperate to get Bale. Swap Mata with Rooney and we would not have been overrun. I think United and Arsenal are about level as teams. The points prove it. But van Gaal is definitely not getting the best out of the team. But when teams get at you lot, you rattle. We did not do this.

 

[Tincanalley]

The whole premise of his, and it seems your, argument is....

I basically disagree with that premise. You are overlooking the obvious truth ...

Frankly, the whole is not worse than the sum of the parts. It actually is the sum of the parts ... If you want a historical analogy to the deluded premise of your arguments, it would be the 'lost cause' romanticism of the South after the American Civil War blaming all kinds of irrelevancies like for example, Longstreet's perceived failure at Gettysburg.

Do you actually work in a Court, m'lud David?

 

[Tomuś]

Why do some people on this forum so often resort to calling people who disagree with them wums?

Caftards should stick to the more old school 'you fecking cnut' approach that's used on other boards.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Or if you want a player by player comparison... Who exactly gets in Uniteds team from Arsenal? Koscielny, Sanchez and one of Ozil/Cazorla for the #10. Nobody else really, if both are fully fit. You can make an argument for Bellerin if you want more of an attacking threat, but Darmian is way ahead of him defensively speaking. The rest, United players dominate that team. 1 bad game between the two doesn't change that at all.

Blimey. It's a shock you guys haven't already won the league.

 

[Eboue]

Blimey. It's a shock you guys haven't already won the league.

Not as big of a shock as when they squeaked into 4th last year with a world class manager, a top 7 player in Di Maria and the 5 time defending best RB in the league.

 

[Red Dreams]

Blimey. It's a shock you guys haven't already won the league.

actually we are shocked you lot are acting as if you have done the Treble.