agreed....6 wins and 1 draw, even Fergie would be happy with that. No doubt he isn't happy with how we are playing...but like Fergie in that last season...he's got results despite the quality of the team.
PL D FA Premier League
Aston Villa 1:1 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Sat, 20 December 2014
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
agreed....6 wins and 1 draw, even Fergie would be happy with that. No doubt he isn't happy with how we are playing...but like Fergie in that last season...he's got results despite the quality of the team.
Whilst being incredibly lucky and playing shit. Fair enough, play conservative against top teams, but we've got miles more talent than the likes of Villa and we still set up with 5 defenders and a holding midfielder.
Well we beat them last year, with Moyes' United who I'm assuming you're alluding to when talking about it 'feeling like Manchester United' again.
It's not about expecting to win every game, it's about expecting us to beat relegation candidates, something we even managed to do last year but are struggling to do this.
Of course he is trying to win each game but is clear to everyone that we lack creativity. I cannot think of any other period in our prem years when our strikers have received so little service.
He is going to bring in a couple creative players of his choosing. Mata was not his choice and I think Herrera was on the cards before LVG came in.
He is going to bring in a couple creative players of his choosing. Mata was not his choice and I think Herrera was on the cards before LVG came in.
We're missing our whole first choice defence ffs.
Totally agree. I liked his comment about it is not just having the ball it is being creative with it. Too many players playing safe, not doing anything creative or just going for it.
I think it is clear that there are a number of players that will be going. They may be PL standard, but they aren't able to step up or play differently. I would wager a small bet that Evans and Fletcher are two of those players. Starting to think that Mata is not going to last long if he continues to get smothered every game.
Not quite sure what you are saying...but are you suggesting that LVG was wrong to do that considering our defense was obviously our weakest point today considering all the injuries not only to the defense but midfield as well?
Relegation candidates like Sunderland? Who held Chelsea to a draw earlier? Why do people even bring up things like that. We are where we should be. Much better than last season but not quite there with the best. If we were the former, it would have been very very disappointing. If we were the latter, it would have been miraculous and an over-achievement. For 4 months work, we are playing better, getting better results, have issues that need addressing, are in a very strong position to get top 4 and within reach of the best two teams in the league. Unless you were expecting us to turn into Bayern in the space of 4 months, I really don't understand what people are complaining about.
Yeah, to be honest I'm not buying that excuse. We had two established CBs on the pitch. Plus Valencia and Young are his choice at fullback and both playing well enough. If not he had Rafael sat on the bench. It wouldn't be an issue if it was any other manager. Fergie wouldn't have had to play 5 at the back today.
Evans has been a disaster all season and we're playing two wingers as full backs.
Well, to be fair to him. Valencia and Young might be playing ok at the fullback positions..but they aren't fullbacks. They are a stop gap really. Also, just because a centre back is considered 'established', doesn't mean they are any good. Evans has turned into a very mediocre risky player over the last season.
Ron Atkinson said on the MUTV build up programme, that he prefers, if you are playing wingbacks, that they are fullbacks who can go forward rather than what we are doing.
LvG made a mistake in subbing RvP and taking Wilson on. RvP provided our link up between midfield and attack, Falcao isn't the creative target man.
Our lack of fullbacks hurt us, i understand LvG's decision to use 3-5-2 when your option for LB is Young.
Carrick was missing in midfield first half and Fellaini is our only real b2b player, Herrera can do a job but unfortunately he got ill.
Fletcher is past it like most of us knew, but there wasn't really any other options. Evans has not shown any quality and he is a weak link in our squad. Mata got messed off the ball all the time, he made alot of good runs behind defence but Young chose to ignore it and make silly crosses. We really need Shaw, Rafael and Blind back.
Strootman and Godin would be very welcome additions in january.
But for me this result was mostly down to injuries making our squad unbalanced, we are still 3rd though and that should be our goal of this season where alot of new is build. I will not complain anyway
Our lack of fullbacks hurt us, i understand LvG's decision to use 3-5-2 when your option for LB is Young.
Carrick was missing in midfield first half and Fellaini is our only real b2b player, Herrera can do a job but unfortunately he got ill.
Fletcher is past it like most of us knew, but there wasn't really any other options. Evans has not shown any quality and he is a weak link in our squad. Mata got messed off the ball all the time, he made alot of good runs behind defence but Young chose to ignore it and make silly crosses. We really need Shaw, Rafael and Blind back.
Strootman and Godin would be very welcome additions in january.
But for me this result was mostly down to injuries making our squad unbalanced, we are still 3rd though and that should be our goal of this season where alot of new is build. I will not complain anyway
So play Carrick at the back. Put Rafael in. Christ, you'd think Van Gaal was the first manager to have injury issues at the back.
And if Evans is no longer good enough to play in a 4 man defence against Villa then he shouldn't be at this club or in the Premiership.
What decisions are those?
LvG made a mistake in subbing RvP and taking Wilson on. RvP provided our link up between midfield and attack, Falcao isn't the creative target man.
Our lack of fullbacks hurt us, i understand LvG's decision to use 3-5-2 when your option for LB is Young.
Carrick was missing in midfield first half and Fellaini is our only real b2b player, Herrera can do a job but unfortunately he got ill.
Fletcher is past it like most of us knew, but there wasn't really any other options. Evans has not shown any quality and he is a weak link in our squad. Mata got messed off the ball all the time, he made alot of good runs behind defence but Young chose to ignore it and make silly crosses. We really need Shaw, Rafael and Blind back.
Strootman and Godin would be very welcome additions in january.
But for me this result was mostly down to injuries making our squad unbalanced, we are still 3rd though and that should be our goal of this season where alot of new is build. I will not complain anyway
If he ever proves his fitness, he isn't in the Roma side tonight against Milan. That looks like we might have to wait until summer. Too big a risk otherwise.
I was talking about Villa, y'know the team we played today, and I didn't even mention, let alone, single out Sunderland so have no idea why you're telling me I'm bringing that up.
What I was referring to was that expecting to win away to Villa isn't feeling like Manchester United again. Even Arsenal/Everton/Spurs/Liverpool should go to Villa Park expecting to win. That's what I was taking issue to with Bebe's post. These are the games we should be winning again. If he made the point last week when we were playing Pool, I'd have fully agreed with him as we expect to beat them at home and we did, like we used to.
Anyway, back to your 'point'. If it was a one off, sure. But drawing away to Burnley, West Brom, Sunderland(!) and now Villa and losing to Leicester is piss poor. That's the point I was referring to when saying we should be winning those matches.
I said it when we were winning and I'll say it again, the away wins at Arsenal and Southampton were great results but lucky as we were playing against two teams that couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo. Similar thing happened with Liverpool a week ago, albeit we were much better, but the same point stands.
But he hasn't done badly with dealing with the injuries at the back for goodness sake. How many goals have we conceeded over the last 7 games? Our defensive record is pretty dam good amazingly. No, Evans isn't good enough and there is absolutely no doubt that LVG knows that. He'll be out...believe me...
Today we had 2 defenders...
Before the game:
"He'll have to take Fletcher off at half time and move Carrick into midfield"
Half time:
Van Gaal has to take Fletcher off and move Carrick into midfield.
Sorry, but your manager shouldn't be making such obvious mistakes that any casual United fan can see exactly what the mistake is before a ball is even kicked, and even succesfully predict how and when it will be rectified. He doesn't get any points for "well at least he saw it and changed it", because the fact he needed to see it is kind of like someone only accepting gravity exists when they're halfway down the cliff. Baffling.
Then in the second half it looked like we were actually threatening to play well through Ashley Young, so Van Gaal, for no actual reason, moves him to the opposite side of the pitch, so he can spend the rest of the game passing to the opposition keeper. If he wanted to go four at the back and attack down the right, Rafael was available. He wasted his last sub on fecking up the side of the pitch we were dominant on instead...which also nearly cost us the game a few times.
For a tactical genius, Van Gaal seems especially skilled at setting up his team with glaringly obvious weak spots, or making changes which are counter productive to the point they completely take the game out of our hands. The last two games we've had Fellaini and Fletcher playing in Carrick's role, while Carrick, for no reason, plays at centreback.
What was the purpose also of leaving Mata on, taking off a striker, then later bringing another striker back on? Was Mata so anonymous that Van Gaal genuinely forgot he was playing? Did he forget the previous two changes he'd made when he made the third.
How come Fletcher keeps getting chances or brought on in games yet Januzaj can't get a look in? Which of the two has looked out of form and which of the two has looked completely incapable of performing to the required level anymore?
It's just a mess from one week to the next, and that's the really frustrating thing. He has most of the players performing, he has them believing. he has everything in place to push the team on but every week fecks around so much it makes it near impossible for us to do better than stumble luckily to victory...which we wont keep doing.
"He'll have to take Fletcher off at half time and move Carrick into midfield"
Half time:
Van Gaal has to take Fletcher off and move Carrick into midfield.
Sorry, but your manager shouldn't be making such obvious mistakes that any casual United fan can see exactly what the mistake is before a ball is even kicked, and even succesfully predict how and when it will be rectified. He doesn't get any points for "well at least he saw it and changed it", because the fact he needed to see it is kind of like someone only accepting gravity exists when they're halfway down the cliff. Baffling.
Then in the second half it looked like we were actually threatening to play well through Ashley Young, so Van Gaal, for no actual reason, moves him to the opposite side of the pitch, so he can spend the rest of the game passing to the opposition keeper. If he wanted to go four at the back and attack down the right, Rafael was available. He wasted his last sub on fecking up the side of the pitch we were dominant on instead...which also nearly cost us the game a few times.
For a tactical genius, Van Gaal seems especially skilled at setting up his team with glaringly obvious weak spots, or making changes which are counter productive to the point they completely take the game out of our hands. The last two games we've had Fellaini and Fletcher playing in Carrick's role, while Carrick, for no reason, plays at centreback.
What was the purpose also of leaving Mata on, taking off a striker, then later bringing another striker back on? Was Mata so anonymous that Van Gaal genuinely forgot he was playing? Did he forget the previous two changes he'd made when he made the third.
How come Fletcher keeps getting chances or brought on in games yet Januzaj can't get a look in? Which of the two has looked out of form and which of the two has looked completely incapable of performing to the required level anymore?
It's just a mess from one week to the next, and that's the really frustrating thing. He has most of the players performing, he has them believing. he has everything in place to push the team on but every week fecks around so much it makes it near impossible for us to do better than stumble luckily to victory...which we wont keep doing.
Ok...so what is your answer to the questions you are posing? That is was the wrong choice of manager? That we should sack him to? Just curious
I might have misinterpreted your words but it sounds like you were saying we shouldn't be dropping points against relegation candidates to which I replied that it happens to everybody but if that's not what you meant, then fair enough.
I don't think I said it was a one off. I said we have issues that need to be addressed. Those issues are responsible for not being able to control games against the top teams as well as an inability to break down the lower ones. My point was that this is more than understandable considering where were. Anybody who expected us to look dominant and in control against the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool or smash the Villas and Burnleys of the league regularly is not being realistic. It is taking time as anybody who is not overly impatient should accept as a fact of our situation.
Well, Nainggolan is doing very well right now so it is hard for him to break Into the side atm. I have no doubts he will come back as good as before, he seems a very determined lad and still fairly young. Also if we do buy him, LvG would have been assured he is ready.
Maybe he is also not playing much right now because Roma knows he wants to leave, thats just speculation though.
Well that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. It's not even about dominating or smashing them regularly. We're struggling to even beat them. Winning away to the leagues poorest teams should be pre-requisites for a United team.
We should just count our lucky stars everyone else has been as bad as us.
The performance wasn't that bad. The post-match interview was spot on: we dominated possession but weren't creative enough.
We have had a few flattering results, so I wasn't that shocked that this result was in the pipeline.
Overall, though, it's coming together. I await a performance when we get all aspects right, and don't worry it will come.
The only criticism I'd have today is moving Young to the right towards the end, he had that fullback completely beaten and his crosses were more effective from the left.
Even so, we'd all have settled for 19 points out of 21 at the start of this run.
...and no new injuries today??
We have had a few flattering results, so I wasn't that shocked that this result was in the pipeline.
Overall, though, it's coming together. I await a performance when we get all aspects right, and don't worry it will come.
The only criticism I'd have today is moving Young to the right towards the end, he had that fullback completely beaten and his crosses were more effective from the left.
Even so, we'd all have settled for 19 points out of 21 at the start of this run.
...and no new injuries today??
The man just seems to overthink things at times. People keep justifiying the 352 as a means of protecting us because we have Valencia and Young and fullbacks. I say, play them and lets see them fail miserably before we go changing things up. We have been winning so people have been placated but Im not one of them. Why play our best CM in defense? To pre empt a situation that might not happen?
Nothing should be pre-requisite to anybody IMO. If you are a top team, you should either be doing these things or actively working to reach that level which might take a 3 months, a year, two or more. That is pre-requisite, we've enjoyed a lot of success, we have a huge fall last year and we're now actively trying to claw our way back up which I feel we should accept to be a natural part of football like where Madrid were in the mid 00s, Bayern over that same period and pretty much any top team you can think of at some point in time. The one thing we should complain about is if the club is not moving towards the right direction which I don't believe to be the case as I think Van Gaal is a very competent manager and the club's finances are giving a great chance.
Well then, you should apply for the job as you have made it clear you know alot more about football than LVG.
People make mistakes. He made a couple today. He obviously had a plan in mind with each change he made and quite unusually, most of them backfired
Did you watch the World Cup? There was quite a few decisions he made throughout the tournament that had people up in arms but pretty much every time, they worked and then from being called stupid one minute, he was a genius the next. As a fact: He sees things that us fans will not see and hence has had such a decorated career based on addressing these things that the average fan will not be aware of. In fact you can say a manager's success is a reflection of how well they do this.
Get off your high horse and realize that there is a lot more to football that meets the eye and it is no where near as simple as you have made his decisions sound above. Who knows? Maybe your way would have worked better today, but I assure you over the course of the season I would feel safer in the hands of LVG. If it was as easy as you make it sound to make his decisions then there would be no point in having a manager in the first place.
Quite simply, if he was as dumb as you have portrayed him above in your brilliant tactical analysis, we would not be sitting in third place and he would not have won a single trophy in his career.
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What I would love is that some of the people on here, who supposedly know how we should play, and the way the team should be set up, could be manchester united manager (including all the training, studying of the opposition, inside stories etc) for five matches each and see how we do! It would by so interesting.
I feel like we're going round in circles.
Winning away to the poorer teams is a pre-requisite for United or any other top team worth their salt. Fact. It just simply is or else you don't finish top four, let alone, successfully win trophies. Now I can understand if you're slipping up against two or three of the league's bottom clubs' over the course of the season but the amount we've done in just eight away games is scandalous.
If we carry on the way we are against them, you can forget about top four.
It's as if football clubs are fond of donating millions a year to any random man to do such easy things when they'd be better served asking the casual fan.
We won leagues by doing brilliantly well against the lower teams. Others when we beat all the top teams. Other times, we were fantastic at OT and on others we did very well away from home. This if you want to be in "insert target", you have to "insert task" is almost never based on any facts. The only thing we can tell is that if we want to be in top four, we need to do better than 16 other teams which we are doing so far.
As for it being a pre-requisite, did you happen to catch the season under Fergie when we didn't win away until almost Christmas and ended up being champions? Or maybe Arsenal in pretty much every year? I really feel you're generalizing and making up some rules about what is required that are not based on any facts.
So people would be happier if we'd won easily today, but scraped a draw away to Arsenal instead?
We are in a far better position than last season.
Too much knee-jerk after a not-that-bad performance.
We are in a far better position than last season.
Too much knee-jerk after a not-that-bad performance.
The lack of resilience bothers me too. We conceded the first goal and got every chance from the match and the referee to battle back and take the 3 points. I kept waiting for that killer instinct to kick in but the final 10 minutes were flat.
What is positive is that LVG clearly showed in post match conference that he want to challenge for the title. This is our goal, catch Chelsea and City, not just to stay in top 4.
West Brom, Chelsea and now Villa we've got a point from a losing position so that's something. Liverpool or Arsenal will drop points this weekend so not the end of the world.
We got a draw against Villa with ten men. A team that has played counter attack all season at home and lost against inferior teams. This results was poor.
Poor performance really. The players didn't have it in them to take risks or to take players on. All they did was play safe passes within their well built structure, which is all good if you want to hold a draw but not good enough if you want to really win. Our bottleneck in this game was Mata, he was completely bullied throughout the whole game and should have been the one switched out at half time for Di Maria. We were too hesitant in giving him the ball in the hole to start our next phase of attack so we were stuck with possession around half way line for the whole game. Not sure why Van gaal didn't address the Mata problem this game.
We have all screamed to have certain players in the side, and every time that side has actually played, it has been total crap. We are all useless.
I just don't get players mentality. It is almost, I want to stay in the team, so I wont do anything risky. Evans as an example today, every time he got anywhere near the half way line it was panic, turn round and pass back wards. Always a bad pass as well. Rooney, as the captain, and supposed leader, where the effing hell was he. Just jogging about, easy pass here, or the 40 yard cross field pass. No penetration.
I watched second half of City today, and we are screaming for some of these pass and move players.
Never thought that it will come the day when I will agree with you.
But yeah, I thought that today Van Gaal was spectacularly poor. From a wrong formation which makes every player look shit, to having the only competent fit midfielder playing in defense instead of midfield, to putting Wilson on the pitch whom clearly doesn't seem ready for his level and then especially changing Young' position when he was creating a lot of chances from the left side. Everything was wrong.
I have to say that while Van Gaal has improved significantly the confidence of the players, and now we expect to win every match, the quality of football has been average at best and I am totally underwhelmed with the stubbornes of playing 5-3-2 and his substitutions have been far from impressive.
Obviously, things will become clearer when we have most of the players back and we'll see if we are really doomed to see us playin this way for the entire season, or we will finally see some better football be it on diamond or in 4-5-1.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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25%
Radamel Falcao
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12%
Michael Carrick
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7%
David de Gea
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5%
Wayne Rooney
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2%
Phil Jones
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1%
James Wilson
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1%
Antonio Valencia
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 425 ratings.
Score Predictions
676,35,38
- Man Utd win
- Aston Villa win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 21% Aston Villa 0:2 Man Utd
- 18% Aston Villa 1:3 Man Utd
- 17% Aston Villa 0:3 Man Utd
- 14% Aston Villa 1:2 Man Utd
- 8% Aston Villa 0:4 Man Utd
- 6% Aston Villa 1:4 Man Utd
- 3% Aston Villa 0:5 Man Utd
- 3% Aston Villa 1:1 Man Utd
- 2% Aston Villa 0:1 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 2:3 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 2:0 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 0:0 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 2:1 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 2:2 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 3:0 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 1:5 Man Utd
- 1% Aston Villa 1:0 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 4:0 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 5:0 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 3:1 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 3:2 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 3:3 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 4:4 Man Utd
- 0% Aston Villa 2:4 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Aston Villa
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 35% 65%
- Shots
- 10 16
- Shots on Target
- 4 9
- Corners
- 3 9
- Fouls
- 9 10
Referee
Lee Mason
Man Utd Lineup
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-
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replaced by James Wilson
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-
-
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replaced by Tyler Blackett
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-
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replaced by Angel Di Maria
