Had time to think... We were tired worn out outfit. Those cnuts on BBC didn't mention the 48hrs extra rest once, bastards. More important games ahead.
FA L FA Cup Semi-Final
Manchester United 1:3 Chelsea
Post-match discussion
Sun, 19 July 2020
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
AWB needed a rest just like Bruno and Rashford. His attack play has been much better as the season has gone on and he is a great defender. People have short memories on here. He had a bad day, it happens He also needs a mental break as much as physical like many on the squad.
No the result was irrelevant, as was the game. He's shown himself to be naive today and it could cost us dear on Wednesday.
Finish in the top four. Anything else is just gravy...
The biggest is the game against Leicester.
Have there been any quotes from Ole or the players?
Phew, we've dodged a situation you've imagined in your head.
I
I do wish the commentators mentioned, our managers worries about the extra 2 days off.
I do wish the commentators mentioned, our managers worries about the extra 2 days off.
Doesn’t it have to be in the box to be a penalty ?
Well, I know which team I want to end up at 5th now...
Can you prove it was outside the box? I haven’t seen any footage anywhere which shows that the foul wasn’t a penalty.
The team selection - I was wondering whether we'd concentrate on trying to win the game, or trying to rest players. I'd have been fine with either. Turns out we managed to come up with a team selection which was neither trying to win the game or rest players. We rested literally no one and yet picked a team that would struggle to beat Chelsea's u18 side. Well done.
Honestly we could have made 11 changes today and said "feck you" to the whole thing and no one would have been able to complain given the game was 2 days after the last one and 2 days before our next one. Or we could have treated the game seriously and picked a team to attack and win. Anyone able to explain what we actually did instead?
Matic - If I was being really cynical I'd say he's gone back on vacation now he's got his new contract, but I think it's more likely that other teams have just got their fitness levels back up and he's gone back to being a yard off the pace as a result. Either way it's begining to annoy me that we keep picking him regardless and then even after it's obvious we simply can't have him there playing like that when the opposition are pressing us, leave him on the pitch for 90 minutes anyway. We have 5 midfielders. We should never have a game where our midfield doesn't have the legs, set up or sharpness to compete with the opposition.
Maguire - I know there's this thing about him supposedly being good on the ball, but he fecking isn't and he should cut it out and maybe concentrate on his defending a bit more. In the odd game here and there where he actually concentrates on defending he is pretty good at it. Then he has games like today where instead he concentrates on thinking he's a baller and lumbers around like an idiot whiile giving up on defending almost completely. Rio Ferdinand is an example of a defender who was good at playing the ball out from the back. Maguire is an example of someone who's been told they are and now tries to do it at all costs. This is where we do miss people like Keane who aren't afraid to tell players when they are fecking shite at something and think that they aren't.
Lindelof - He's beyond help. I know the second goal looked bad on De Gea but the first goal made Lindelof look like a pub player, and the second goal he also appeared to want to let Mount just walk the ball into our goal...and the third goal was the same as the first except Maguire nearly managed to rescue him. He's a central defender who doesn't know how to defend a basic cross.
Shaw/Bissaka - Honestly the defensive work of these two has been severely underated this season. Bissaka shuts teams down on his side and Shaw literally every game bails the two centrebacks out by either blocking the cross or getting round to the near post for balls in like the ones for two of the goals today. Neither of them would ever play that ball Williams did for the second goal either. THese two are massive difference makers and It's no surprise that with Shaw injured and Bissaka knackered we start conceding circus goals again, to be honest. They're more important to how we play than whoever we put at centreback is because these two are easily the two highest quality defensive players we have.
Fred and McTominay - These two have also had excellent seasons and now have been relegated to almost Lingard level squad players based on a single poor half a game against Tottenham, which was the first game anyone had played in several months. Yet it seems to be ok for Matic to look off the pace and tired for one game after the next and just carry on being picked anyway. Fernandes literally always plays and looks knackered. Pogba has been given half a game off here and there and looks knackered. We are in desperate need of extra legs in midfield and we've frozen out two really hard working midfield players who earlier in the season had enough quality to stand out against teams like City and Liverpool. McTominay should have played today and probably both of them against Southampton. We will need them so we also need to get them relatively match fit.
I'm not entirely fussed about the FA cup but this game really showed Ole has a lot to learn about managing his squad more than anything. We gained nothing from today and no one has gotten any rest either. Hopefully he will learn as he gets an awful lot of everything else right.
Bailly injury - If I'd injured myself in the same way and called an ambulance at the same time as Bailly got injured, then by the time he was even put on a stretcher I would have been most of the way to hospital in the back of an ambulance and already being treated. I also wouldn't have been allowed to get up and wander about and potentially kill myself in the mean time. What the feck are the medical staff at games there for if they aren't even going to look after the basic life safety of a player when it's needed? This made me more angry than anything else in the game. He literally could have been killed while they were fecking about if he'd either had second impact syndrome or a fracture to his back/head. He was allowed to get up and wander off the pitch after it was clear he was seriously hurt. Absolutely disgraceful.
Chelsea - Definitely deserved in and probably should have scored more. Reece James is quality. If we weren't so knackered it would have been a really decent game as they'd have still taken some beating today. Kicked the crap out of Rashford and Fernandes but I'd expect our players to do the same if the ref was too dumb to do anything about it. None of it really crossed the line, unlike with Southampton who literally just behaved like thugs at times.
Honestly we could have made 11 changes today and said "feck you" to the whole thing and no one would have been able to complain given the game was 2 days after the last one and 2 days before our next one. Or we could have treated the game seriously and picked a team to attack and win. Anyone able to explain what we actually did instead?
Matic - If I was being really cynical I'd say he's gone back on vacation now he's got his new contract, but I think it's more likely that other teams have just got their fitness levels back up and he's gone back to being a yard off the pace as a result. Either way it's begining to annoy me that we keep picking him regardless and then even after it's obvious we simply can't have him there playing like that when the opposition are pressing us, leave him on the pitch for 90 minutes anyway. We have 5 midfielders. We should never have a game where our midfield doesn't have the legs, set up or sharpness to compete with the opposition.
Maguire - I know there's this thing about him supposedly being good on the ball, but he fecking isn't and he should cut it out and maybe concentrate on his defending a bit more. In the odd game here and there where he actually concentrates on defending he is pretty good at it. Then he has games like today where instead he concentrates on thinking he's a baller and lumbers around like an idiot whiile giving up on defending almost completely. Rio Ferdinand is an example of a defender who was good at playing the ball out from the back. Maguire is an example of someone who's been told they are and now tries to do it at all costs. This is where we do miss people like Keane who aren't afraid to tell players when they are fecking shite at something and think that they aren't.
Lindelof - He's beyond help. I know the second goal looked bad on De Gea but the first goal made Lindelof look like a pub player, and the second goal he also appeared to want to let Mount just walk the ball into our goal...and the third goal was the same as the first except Maguire nearly managed to rescue him. He's a central defender who doesn't know how to defend a basic cross.
Shaw/Bissaka - Honestly the defensive work of these two has been severely underated this season. Bissaka shuts teams down on his side and Shaw literally every game bails the two centrebacks out by either blocking the cross or getting round to the near post for balls in like the ones for two of the goals today. Neither of them would ever play that ball Williams did for the second goal either. THese two are massive difference makers and It's no surprise that with Shaw injured and Bissaka knackered we start conceding circus goals again, to be honest. They're more important to how we play than whoever we put at centreback is because these two are easily the two highest quality defensive players we have.
Fred and McTominay - These two have also had excellent seasons and now have been relegated to almost Lingard level squad players based on a single poor half a game against Tottenham, which was the first game anyone had played in several months. Yet it seems to be ok for Matic to look off the pace and tired for one game after the next and just carry on being picked anyway. Fernandes literally always plays and looks knackered. Pogba has been given half a game off here and there and looks knackered. We are in desperate need of extra legs in midfield and we've frozen out two really hard working midfield players who earlier in the season had enough quality to stand out against teams like City and Liverpool. McTominay should have played today and probably both of them against Southampton. We will need them so we also need to get them relatively match fit.
I'm not entirely fussed about the FA cup but this game really showed Ole has a lot to learn about managing his squad more than anything. We gained nothing from today and no one has gotten any rest either. Hopefully he will learn as he gets an awful lot of everything else right.
Bailly injury - If I'd injured myself in the same way and called an ambulance at the same time as Bailly got injured, then by the time he was even put on a stretcher I would have been most of the way to hospital in the back of an ambulance and already being treated. I also wouldn't have been allowed to get up and wander about and potentially kill myself in the mean time. What the feck are the medical staff at games there for if they aren't even going to look after the basic life safety of a player when it's needed? This made me more angry than anything else in the game. He literally could have been killed while they were fecking about if he'd either had second impact syndrome or a fracture to his back/head. He was allowed to get up and wander off the pitch after it was clear he was seriously hurt. Absolutely disgraceful.
Chelsea - Definitely deserved in and probably should have scored more. Reece James is quality. If we weren't so knackered it would have been a really decent game as they'd have still taken some beating today. Kicked the crap out of Rashford and Fernandes but I'd expect our players to do the same if the ref was too dumb to do anything about it. None of it really crossed the line, unlike with Southampton who literally just behaved like thugs at times.
Last edited:
I thought the plan was that Romero plays the cup games
Shit performance from everyone. Forget it and focus on top 4. West ham
I know I will probably get lambasted for saying this but think it is sometimes easier to recover from a comfortable loss like we saw tonight than if we had been beaten in a tight game after extra time or on penalties.
Spurs threw us a massive lifeline in the top four race and it is important that we bounce back from this defeat and not let it fester for these important last two league games.
The good news if we can win by 2 goals on Wednesday then LC would have to beat us by 3. Does anyone know the next tie breaker and who it favors?
Yeah with Arteta’s managerial skills we would definitely have lost eleventytwelvety - minus forty, 100% guaranteed proven.
No, if we win 2-0, leicester will get through with a 1-0 win.
Especially with the result of the Liecester game, we should have rotated more. At least to me, the next 2 games in the league were way more important than the FA cup.
We were quite shit, the starters looked tired and the subs weren't game ready. A lot of individual mistakes again.
We were quite shit, the starters looked tired and the subs weren't game ready. A lot of individual mistakes again.
Think you might need to have another think about that one.....
If they score, thats +1 for them and - 1 for United, so if they have more scored goals, they need only 1-0 in that case.
Awful performance.
Hopefully we bounce back from this.
Hopefully we bounce back from this.
Where to start. So many things to blame, so many players to blame, so many incidents to point at. For me you have to look at the manager first (no it’s not an Ole out rant), what was his objective today? To win the game or rest players? Both, in a perfect world. However he and we know this squad doesn’t have the depth or the quality to do both. So you had to pick one IMO! He didn’t, he tried to do both. He played mentally fatigued players (Bruno, Rashford, Magurie, AWB, De Gea) and only benched 3 first team starters. Of which all of them ended getting game time anyways.
So what was achieved, we rested no one and lost the game in an embarrassing fashion. To which zaps most of the confidence we had built the past 19 games. I’d rather he made a BIG call an either picked our strongest 11 or rested more players. What he got was a team that played not to lose, at no point in this game did any one of our players look like winning was important or mattered. Lack of focus and motivation throughout the game, miss placed pass after pass and lack of any movement to want the ball. It was as if they were told to go out there and do what they can given the situation. Surely that could of been achieved with more of a 2nd string 11? At least then we could of said that our aim was to protect our key players for the league, as rightly so the key to this rebuild is the prestige and money CL football will bring and aid this team. (Which is key to bringing in better quality players). BUT I wouldn’t of got angry if he would of started our best 11 either , because it shows he wants to win things. An that is the aim after all. But again he didn’t, he made a choice and it backfired. He clearly believed Chelsea would fall for the same counter attack tactics they did last time and that he could get away with making only a couple changes (despite the warning signs in the last couple games). I feel he was naive and it cost us today.
An to top it off, he still manages a smile and chuckle at the full time whistle to Lampard . (It may not annoy other people but it just really bothers me, not the mentally of a winner in my view if you can bring yourself to laugh and joke right after a loss, especially in a semi final). I just hope this doesn’t derail our final two games. We are just lucky our run in has been allot easier than the teams around us.
So what was achieved, we rested no one and lost the game in an embarrassing fashion. To which zaps most of the confidence we had built the past 19 games. I’d rather he made a BIG call an either picked our strongest 11 or rested more players. What he got was a team that played not to lose, at no point in this game did any one of our players look like winning was important or mattered. Lack of focus and motivation throughout the game, miss placed pass after pass and lack of any movement to want the ball. It was as if they were told to go out there and do what they can given the situation. Surely that could of been achieved with more of a 2nd string 11? At least then we could of said that our aim was to protect our key players for the league, as rightly so the key to this rebuild is the prestige and money CL football will bring and aid this team. (Which is key to bringing in better quality players). BUT I wouldn’t of got angry if he would of started our best 11 either , because it shows he wants to win things. An that is the aim after all. But again he didn’t, he made a choice and it backfired. He clearly believed Chelsea would fall for the same counter attack tactics they did last time and that he could get away with making only a couple changes (despite the warning signs in the last couple games). I feel he was naive and it cost us today.
An to top it off, he still manages a smile and chuckle at the full time whistle to Lampard . (It may not annoy other people but it just really bothers me, not the mentally of a winner in my view if you can bring yourself to laugh and joke right after a loss, especially in a semi final). I just hope this doesn’t derail our final two games. We are just lucky our run in has been allot easier than the teams around us.
Fred started today. Which was a great opportunity for him to try and force the manager to pick him again. Which was the exact same opportunity McTominay had when he started the game before this one. It’s a real pity they both had games to forget but you’ve chosen a strange time to complain about them being frozen out.
Be honest and tell me if you would have said that 3 weeks ago.
So many johnny come lately's with their short term memories.
Well so much for that all Manchester fa cup final that the pundits were predicting, something told me that was going to be a curse for us and City which indeed proved to be the case.
The replay they showed within about 30 seconds made it look like it wasn’t in the box and wasn’t violent conduct, so was out of the scope of VAR. I didn’t give it much thought after despite being a clear clumsy foul.
That replay made it look either very close to, or directly above, the line at the edge of the box. I couldn’t work out why the hell they didn’t have a closer look at it. God knows they’re fond of wasting everyone’s time sketching coloured lines.
Had a bad feeling about today as soon as I saw the lineup
Meh, I would say they are very average. Not many players in their team would be in our line-up
Just don't get what Ole was thinking. If he was going to make changes, then at least keep the formation the same as last few weeks.
He changes to a 3-5-2 with players who have not featured for some time. That was just asking for trouble. Utd looked like a team that haven't played together. Chelsea were so dominant. They knew exactly what they were doing. They pressed well and the excuted the 3-5-2 formation brilliantly.
Very poor from the manager and players. Hope it doesn't knock the confidence. West Ham won't be easy.
He changes to a 3-5-2 with players who have not featured for some time. That was just asking for trouble. Utd looked like a team that haven't played together. Chelsea were so dominant. They knew exactly what they were doing. They pressed well and the excuted the 3-5-2 formation brilliantly.
Very poor from the manager and players. Hope it doesn't knock the confidence. West Ham won't be easy.
In both cases it was their first start since the last FA cup game where we picked a second string side. McTominay was fine on Wednesday as well. Better than Matic has been for a few games now just by virtue of the fact he could cover the ground...but if you don't pick players you have to expect a degree of rustiness when you suddenly turn to them in desperation.
I don't think it's that difficult really. This game and the Southampton one we've really struggled big time to cover ground or even occupy space in the middle of the park. Both times Matic played the entire 90 minutes and visibly struggled to keep up while two other central midfielders were sat on the bench. This shouldn't be happening. We know Matic will struggle in these kinds of circumstance even if he is fully rested.
Summed it up for me today when Maguire was running round in a big circle near the end desperately looking for a pass, and Matic was so out of it he literally walked into him and STILL didn't take the ball. Against Southempton Pogba literally had to play in midfield on his own while both Fred and McTOminay sat on the bench and watched. Then when we made changes we still didn't address the problem...and same again today.
I like Ole and think he generally gets things right but it isn't too much to ask to use the players at his disposal properly. Being able to compete in midfield is pretty important.
It’s not nice getting dumped out of the semi-finals like that. It’s particularly irritating as we ended up playing all of our first string in a losing effort. Had we lined up with a heavily rotated squad and been beaten, the backlash would be less vehement, IMO.
I think it’s a reminder of where we are though. We’re still very much a work in progress and our starting 11, whilst far from the finished article, is a match for most anyone in the league. Simply put, names like James/Williams represent a considerable dip in quality when they play. They are not solely responsible for today, as the overall performance was stinking; however, they are merely two names who I don’t consider to have long-term futures at the club.
At this stage, everything regarding the ‘performance’ has been debated and analysed; however, the salient fact is that it was not good enough, no matter how you approach it. Fair enough. Take it on the chin and get ready for a huge game on Wednesday. What I will say though, the one things that irks me is how we completely deviated from what has made us look good in recent time. To throw our whole setup out the window to face Chelsea is.. a little discouraging. They’re a decent side, but they’re not Milan of the 80’s/90’s. We showed them far too much respect and almost played the name, ‘Chelsea’ rather than the 11 men they fielded. Man for man, there’s not much in it and the table reflects that. Furthermore, we’ve beaten them several times this season. To throw our system out the window and go with 3 at the back was too respectful of our opponents today. There will come a point in the future where we have to be brave and attack these teams and have them worry about what we’re bringing, rather than compromising our tactical familiarity and patterns of play to nullify their threats.
It’s a reality check though and I hope it throws the gauntlet down for Wednesday night. If we finish the season in the top 4, this evening will have faded into obscurity by this time next week.
I think it’s a reminder of where we are though. We’re still very much a work in progress and our starting 11, whilst far from the finished article, is a match for most anyone in the league. Simply put, names like James/Williams represent a considerable dip in quality when they play. They are not solely responsible for today, as the overall performance was stinking; however, they are merely two names who I don’t consider to have long-term futures at the club.
At this stage, everything regarding the ‘performance’ has been debated and analysed; however, the salient fact is that it was not good enough, no matter how you approach it. Fair enough. Take it on the chin and get ready for a huge game on Wednesday. What I will say though, the one things that irks me is how we completely deviated from what has made us look good in recent time. To throw our whole setup out the window to face Chelsea is.. a little discouraging. They’re a decent side, but they’re not Milan of the 80’s/90’s. We showed them far too much respect and almost played the name, ‘Chelsea’ rather than the 11 men they fielded. Man for man, there’s not much in it and the table reflects that. Furthermore, we’ve beaten them several times this season. To throw our system out the window and go with 3 at the back was too respectful of our opponents today. There will come a point in the future where we have to be brave and attack these teams and have them worry about what we’re bringing, rather than compromising our tactical familiarity and patterns of play to nullify their threats.
It’s a reality check though and I hope it throws the gauntlet down for Wednesday night. If we finish the season in the top 4, this evening will have faded into obscurity by this time next week.
He only tactically outclassed Pep by Sterling missing about 5 easy chances. People base too much on too little with football. It's nothing new.
DDG 3rd for MOTM this a Chelsea forum?
I promise I didn't vote!
In all my years here, I can't ever remember voting in one of your MOTM things. It's just Man United fans being weird.
I thought he had a good first half and a poor second half (despite the penalty conversion). Maybe he was tired.
Wednesday could be, if we can play like we've seen in recent weeks rather than today, we could get 2 or 3 goals and with Leicester shipping 3 against Spurs today it'll mean Leicester need to beat us by 3 or by 4 to finish above us. I can't see either of those margins occurring.
my god these just keep popping up
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It allows people to pick apart whatever they like because they have no responsibility towards the decisions that are made.
We just lost our first game in 20. Think about that. 19 other games before this we didn't lose. Not only didn't lose, but they dragged themselves back from a pretty dark place. The season was done after the Burnley loss. The 19 games between that one and this one we've scored loads, conceded few, and become a team that people are talking about again.
I think Ole messed it up today. So what? It happens to everyone. Chelsea were just better today. They had a bit more time to prepare and and it showed from almost the first minute. When is this constant cycle of 'is he/isnt he' going to stop? Its so fkn boring now. He has done an outstanding job. Get behind him and the team. How about maybe posting in these threads after we've won too, and then you won't all look like agenda driven spoilt brats.
Since the restart we've won 5 and drawn 2 of 7 league games, and we are really close to our goal. Finish top 4 and we get a nice pressure-free shot at the Europa League, and we look forward to a summer of filling in more squad gaps and Champions League football next season. Recognise a good thing while its happening.
We just lost our first game in 20. Think about that. 19 other games before this we didn't lose. Not only didn't lose, but they dragged themselves back from a pretty dark place. The season was done after the Burnley loss. The 19 games between that one and this one we've scored loads, conceded few, and become a team that people are talking about again.
I think Ole messed it up today. So what? It happens to everyone. Chelsea were just better today. They had a bit more time to prepare and and it showed from almost the first minute. When is this constant cycle of 'is he/isnt he' going to stop? Its so fkn boring now. He has done an outstanding job. Get behind him and the team. How about maybe posting in these threads after we've won too, and then you won't all look like agenda driven spoilt brats.
Since the restart we've won 5 and drawn 2 of 7 league games, and we are really close to our goal. Finish top 4 and we get a nice pressure-free shot at the Europa League, and we look forward to a summer of filling in more squad gaps and Champions League football next season. Recognise a good thing while its happening.
It was mentioned in commentary. It's a handy excuse but that's all.
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 304 ratings.
Score Predictions
142,44,20
- Man Utd win
- Chelsea win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 40% Man Utd 2:1 Chelsea
- 14% Man Utd 1:2 Chelsea
- 9% Man Utd 2:0 Chelsea
- 8% Man Utd 1:0 Chelsea
- 7% Man Utd 1:1 Chelsea
- 6% Man Utd 3:1 Chelsea
- 3% Man Utd 3:2 Chelsea
- 3% Man Utd 0:2 Chelsea
- 3% Man Utd 2:2 Chelsea
- 2% Man Utd 1:3 Chelsea
- 1% Man Utd 0:5 Chelsea
- 1% Man Utd 4:0 Chelsea
- 1% Man Utd 3:0 Chelsea
- 0% Man Utd 0:1 Chelsea
- 0% Man Utd 0:3 Chelsea
- 0% Man Utd 5:0 Chelsea
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Chelsea
- Possession
- 51% 49%
- Shots
- 7 13
- Shots on Target
- 3 7
- Corners
- 3 3
- Fouls
- 9 21
Referee
Mike Dean
Man Utd Lineup
-
-
-
replaced by Anthony Martial
-
-
replaced by Timothy Fosu-Mensah
-
-
-
replaced by Paul Pogba
-
-
replaced by Odion Ighalo
-
replaced by Mason Greenwood
