[DocRockter]

Over 850 passes and still we can't hit our free-kicks nor corners onto our strikers heads..

 

[mattsville]

The first half was God awful, but our 2nd half display would have won us the game on another night. Drama Queens indeed.

Ok to clarify briefly, in the 1st half we were simply shite and they were decent, that happens sometimes in away games in the CL, in the 2nd half not only were they on the ropes mentally they were unconscious on the the canvas for the entire 45 mins, self inflicted and nothing we forced them to do, and we basically did nothing about it, they should have been slaughtered they were that bad but it took an opportunistic header in off the post to get us a point, it was poxy overall.

 

[Adebesi]

Away in Europe. In Moscow, no less. These games have been boring for years and years and years, nothing to do with Van Gaal. We got the result and in the second half we had control of the game. I'm satisfied, tho after the goal I got my hopes up we'd go on and win.

 

[711]

I bet you were really drunk while watching this game.

'Steadily better' implies he had room to improve. Which he did, in the second half his close-passing was good, and he took the ball forward, creating chances. Most gamblers lose, incidentally.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

A bit disappointed but I'll always take a draw away in CL. Have to make sure we do them and PSV at home, and don't lose away to Wolfsburg to top the group.

 

[Mockney]

It was ok, in the end. But I'm not sure what the past has to do with it. Yes, we did play shite sometimes in the past but that shouldn't be a reason not to call a shite performance shite in the present day.

I realise context matters, as in most things in life, but the larger context here isn't that we had underwhelming CL displays in the past; it's that we're generally boring to watch. It's not much fun, most of the time.

The past matters in terms of realising the plausible expectations on games like these. I can understand people moaning if we'd put in that performance against a League 1 side at home in an FA cup tie...but a European away game in Russia has a very different set of expectations, and factoring in our longish history of them, a relatively comfortable draw is a satisfactory one in the scheme of things. We weren't playing a set of cones. Our performance was at least partly dependant on playing a fairly decent team in their back yard.

I'd concede that if we'd played like that all game, there'd be scope for bitching..But in the unpredictable eb and flow of actual football, where things often can and do go wrong, improving enough mid game to gain a decent result, and end up on top, is a reasonable cause for satisfaction in my book

The past is relevant because if people genuinely thought this was below par for Manchester United in such games, they obviously haven't been watching Manchester United play such games.

 

[Iron Stove]

We were poor in the first half, for sure. But we were poor in a lot of difficult far flung CL always under Fergie too. Back in the days when we used to play O Shea, or (going old skool) Ronny Johnsen in central midfield.

One of the great truisms of football is that the way you end games is usually the abiding memory of your performance. Fergie's legacy is built on so-so performances that turned into great comebacks. And the Arsenal game is a great example in LVG's tenure, as only a severely selective memory could see that as anything but a jammy smash and grab.

Tonight I thought we ended that game the dominant team, so I'm a bit surprised to find so many bitching about the first half.

There are many faults with the performance, sure, but we weren't shit. Anyone with any middling experience of CL always surely can't think this was anything below satisfactory? Unless they've only watched DVD highlights of 99 and 08?

Good post. And even the 99 DVD has that early season 3-0 away loss against Arsenal on it.

What's the most memorable performance in the 08 CL campaign featuring that mouthwatering attack? Probably the Barca games, in which we parked the bus and got a result against a top opponent who looked the better team. Most of that whole campaign was actually somewhat dire and our success was based primarily on great defense. In no games except the two group stage games against Dynamo Kiev did we score more than two goals. We scored a single or no goals in 9 out of 13 CL games that year. And that's one of our best ever seasons.

I'll take a draw in Moscow at this point in time.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

The first half was dreadful but by full time it was pretty much the usual type of away European performance we saw year after year under Fergie. It was fine, nothing special but fine and a decent result to go with it.

 

[surf]

Reasonable result, disappointed with how little goal threat we had over 90 minutes. Credit to Martial for a perfectly placed header.
Van Gaal was on the right track with the subs of Fellaini and Blind, the second half was better.

 

[Kakeru]

You cannot properly judge this team or play style with Rooney at 10 or 9. Hes deadweight being carried around.

if hes 10: you rely on his chance creation which is a joke
if hes 9: you rely on his hold up play, beating defenders and finish which is beyond laughable.

The team is a circus till hes out.

I agree with that. His Everton performance was the odd one off.

Just drop the guy already.

 

[Mockney]

What's the most memorable performance in the 08 CL campaign featuring that mouthwatering attack? Probably the Barca games, in which we parked the bus and got a result against a top opponent who looked the better team. Most of that whole campaign was actually somewhat dire and our success was based primarily on great defense. In no games except the two group stage games against Dynamo Kiev did we score more than two goals. We scored a single or no goals in 9 out of 13 CL games that year. And that's one of our best ever seasons.

Exactly. I remember how much people bitched about our away performances under Fergie and Quieroz. They were consistently this level, or below. Often against weaker teams too.

The first half was dreadful but by full time it was pretty much the usual type of away European performance we saw year after year under Fergie. It was fine, nothing special but fine and a decent result to go with it.

Bangerang

 

[Moriarty]

We were poor in the first half, for sure. But we were poor in a lot of difficult far flung CL always under Fergie too. Back in the days when we used to play O Shea, or (going old skool) Ronny Johnsen in central midfield.

One of the great truisms of football is that the way you end games is usually the abiding memory of your performance. Fergie's legacy is built on so-so performances that turned into great comebacks. And the Arsenal game is a great example in LVG's tenure, as only a severely selective memory could see that as anything but a jammy smash and grab.

Tonight I thought we ended that game the dominant team, so I'm a bit surprised to find so many bitching about the first half.

There are many faults with the performance, sure, but we weren't shit. Anyone with any middling experience of CL always surely can't think this was anything below satisfactory? Unless they've only watched DVD highlights of 99 and 08?

In part. Remember Liverpool in the cup in 99? We went behind to a Michael Owen goal and never looked like scoring until the last few minutes. Juventus at home saw us trailing and flagging until Giggs pulled a rabbit out. Did it the hard way at their place too and the final is really only memorable for the last three minutes. I remember the Bayern players showboating and laughing thinking they had it won. It wasn't always football played at 100mph; it wasn't like that in the days of the Holy Trinity either. But in the end, it's the result people remember and looking back over time at those games, it gets rosier with each passing year.

 

[Sereques]

SAF played his best team every match whenever he could. We ALL knew who the players on the team sheet would be week-in week-out … including the opposing manager but that doesn't matter if you want the team to take the credit not the manager.

This are the kind of comments that piss me off.

 

[Sereques]

I watch countless European away games like this under SAF. I wish we played PSV away like that, at least we will have a point.

 

[hbgreg]

We scored a single or no goals in 9 out of 13 CL games that year. And that's one of our best ever seasons.

Nah we won every game 5-0

 

[Mockney]

In part. Remember Liverpool in the cup in 99? We went behind to a Michael Owen goal and never looked like scoring until the last few minutes. Juventus at home saw us trailing and flagging until Giggs pulled a rabbit out. Did it the hard way at their place too and the final is really only memorable for the last three minutes. I remember the Bayern players showboating and laughing thinking they had it won. It wasn't always football played at 100mph; it wasn't like that in the days of the Holy Trinity either. But in the end, it's the result people remember and looking back over time at those games, it gets rosier with each passing year.

Exactly. Now I'm not saying it was some kind of sham, or that we never played great football. Of course we did, and we had much better teams to boot who dominated loads of games, but the point is, when you win, you remember the win and not how you got there. Just like how no one ever remembers all the shit music that came out in the 60s and 70s..only the classics. We ground out a lot of ugly results over he years, and few more than in tough European aways like this.

Nah we won every game 5-0

This are the kind of comments that piss me off.

There's a parallel universe where this happened...and we didn't win anything in it. But at least we kept Pogba.

 

[markhrad]

You cannot properly judge this team or play style with Rooney at 10 or 9. Hes deadweight being carried around.

if hes 10: you rely on his chance creation which is a joke
if hes 9: you rely on his hold up play, beating defenders and finish which is beyond laughable.

The team is a circus till hes out.

Well he is not going anywhere until he has broken the club record so lets pray that it happens this season and does not get dragged into '16-'17. I have always maintained that he is over-rated and that better players were made to suffer because of his stature in the English game. I think most are finally seeing that for themselves, however, I would not be surprised if some of his die-hard supporters start blaming LVG's system/ philosophy for Rooney's current lack of form.
Since we are stuck with him I hope LVG will stop playing him in a central position where he ends up being the main man, however, that would mean it would take him even longer to get the 13 or 14 goals he needs to break the scoring record, so I guess like LVG we are stuck with Rooney for the time being.
I think we are in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation.

 

[Winrar]

We will score and we will win!

You can come back and find this post later and ridicule me if it doesn't happen!

well, we did score so I guess we can half ridicule you.

 

[suheilsworld]

Decent result. Disappointed about the performance but a good result looking back at how CSKA Moscow have been playing. Next two home games become largely vital.

 

[NK86]

Why on earth did we "recycle" it back all the way to the CBs from 10 yards outside their penalty box in the final minute of play?

It was also not the first time as I have seen this as a regular occurrence. I wish the team just broke the shackles and went for the jugular in the last few minutes of the games we are not winning. We need to take more risks.

 

[Akshay]

It's clear we came to play for a draw and I guess since we got that, mission accomplished.

That said, for the entirety of the first half and major portions of the second, we looked like a team without the ability to smoothly string passes together trying to play possession football. We'd work it into a little space and then someone would make an awkward pass, too short or too long, and the small opening that had been built up would be instantly lost. Then the ball has to be worked all the way back before it can be attempted again.

Not to mention the amount of time spent passing it around the back just because our backline needed midfielders dropping deeper just to help them keep the ball against the press, which meant there were fewer forward pass options. We were carrying too many players who weren't good on the ball tonight: Jones, Rojo, Smalling, Schneiderlin, Lingard. I also dislike how quickly we turn to Fellaini at every sign of trouble, we should have more options than that.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

well, we did score so I guess we can half ridicule you.

Deservedly feeling ridi'ed

 

[Acole9]

A draw in Moscow is a decent result. Our play wasn't great to watch but I wouldn't have said we went there and didn't plan for a win.

 

[SoCross]

Its those god awful shorts I tell you!

 

[Adisa]

I've been supportive of LVG but those last 5 minutes imo were a disgrace. There is space infront of you in a game your not winning in the final minute and you pass back. That is not on.
We had 25 minutes to find a winner against a team on the ropes and I don't think we tested Akinfeev. That is not acceptable.

 

[Gambit]

I was incredibly impressed with CSKA especially in the first half, their organisation, covering and tactics were superb, especially in the first half.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Only saw the second half, where I thought we were decent... Completely controlled the game at any rate.

Very happy with the point though... Makes our progression to the next round a whole lot smoother

 

[YzWayne]

I went through the replay of the penalty and keep thinking to myself, why did cska players get to the rebound first. Where was our players?

Then I look again closely and saw jones standing further away to goal and was in no urgency to get the rebound.

 

[IwatUwat]

Highlights for me were:
- Martial again scoring, and looking like our most attacking threat (although penalty obviously woeful) sure LVG sees he is so much more productive and dangerous for the team through the middle, so potentially its a matter of time until him, depay/rooney wide and mata play that system.
- Lingard was decent I thought, found areas to play in well, turned and ran at their defence, tidy on the ball, gave a bit of energy to our play
- Schneiderlin continues to show how he plays the role very well
- De Gea solid again couple of good saves
- Smalling Jones another game together
- We did get the equaliser and a draw isnt a bad result

Negatives
- Lack of creativity and willingness to run beyond, including from Herrera who usually is our man for that. Slow passing was back, slow generic football. Horrendous game to watch for the fans. Especially after the weekend. Maybe the gameplan went out the window after their goal. But still awful, we need to have more than that when a goal down.
- Schweinsteiger really got lost out there and lacked impact
- Rojo looked shakey for me and offered zero going forward literally did not get within 30 yards of their goal, no overlap of Martial nothing, maybe it was due to their winger being their creative force but surely one overlap would help the team
- Jones' distribution was pretty poor some very average passing
- Herrera lacked any real impetus, did okay in spells but cant remember a run past Rooney or any real creativity from him resulting in chances
- Rooney had very very little impact on the game again, I cant work out whether its due to the rest of the 10 players playing slow passing football with no creativity or whether Rooney doesnt have the impetus to create things for himself any more and therefore doesnt make runs or get into the game at all. But even when it came to him (i.e the header) it was a poor attempt, or his touch and general play was backwards not a turn and take on a defender and get a shot off (even like a Vardy or Aguero or Martial or basically any no 9 would try when that is their role). Its hard for him when the rest of the team are lacking creativity I get that, but a no 9's job is at times to make things happen.

 

[Lewis.no.9]

lets be honest, we cant have any aspirations of anything anywhere near the word "Success" if we find ourselves saying "A point to CSKA is a good result". We should be steam rolling these teams and topping this on paper easy group with a large margin. Whats going wrong here. Have we lowered our standards this much?

 

[Von Mistelroum]

Can't imagine any kids today watching us play and thinking "that's who I want to support!" Our style would be ok if we had the players to pull it off, but as it is it seems we've spent bucketloads of money and are still way short of what we need to play well in the style that Van Gaal wants.

 

[Coxy]

lets be honest, we cant have any aspirations of anything anywhere near the word "Success" if we find ourselves saying "A point to CSKA is a good result". We should be steam rolling these teams and topping this on paper easy group with a large margin. Whats going wrong here. Have we lowered our standards this much?

Sadly you seem to have. You guys have the personnel - but Van Gaal is just so focussed on philosophy that you're not playing to your potential. Rooney should have been dropped by now. Martial should be in the centre. You're always passing sideways or back instead of taking a punt and attacking. It's sad to see

 

[Badunk]

The thing that most pleases me about the way we're playing is that the team doesn't panic when we go behind, which is crucial. Under Moyes, when we conceded, that was it. If we were lucky, we'd scrape a draw, but most of the time you'd get the sinking feeling and would expect us to concede again rather than score ourselves. I think LVG has ingrained confidence into the squad once again, giving them the belief that they can come back from a deficit if they stick to the game plan.

Now, I realise that the main gripe people have is with the actual game plan and how it's generally a slow passing build up with the emphasis on ball retention, but I'm just glad that I can watch United again and not think that it's game over if we concede a bloody goal.

 

[World Game]

The thing that most pleases me about the way we're playing is that the team doesn't panic when we go behind, which is crucial. Under Moyes, when we conceded, that was it. If we were lucky, we'd scrape a draw, but most of the time you'd get the sinking feeling and would expect us to concede again rather than score ourselves. I think LVG has ingrained confidence into the squad once again, giving them the belief that they can come back from a deficit if they stick to the game plan.

Now, I realise that the main gripe people have is with the actual game plan and how it's generally a slow passing build up with the emphasis on ball retention, but I'm just glad that I can watch United again and not think that it's game over if we concede a bloody goal.

I feel like part of the reason for that is we've gone behind for basically every other game this season that the team is just used to it by now.(Brugge, Swansea, PSV, Wolfsburg, Southampton, Arsenal, CSKA) While it's a good thing that we have shown the mentality to make comebacks, it's a worrying trend how often we've found ourselves chasing a game this season.

 

[Siorac]

lets be honest, we cant have any aspirations of anything anywhere near the word "Success" if we find ourselves saying "A point to CSKA is a good result". We should be steam rolling these teams and topping this on paper easy group with a large margin. Whats going wrong here. Have we lowered our standards this much?

A point is a decent result in an away CL game in Russia for the most time. That's not the problem. The problem is the generally underwhelming football we play, the amount of times we find ourselves chasing a game (as has been said above) and the huge difficulties we have with creating chances.

 

[Rezyuz]

'Steadily better' implies he had room to improve. Which he did, in the second half his close-passing was good, and he took the ball forward, creating chances. Most gamblers lose, incidentally.

Next match we are celebrating that he managed to shoot a ball.

 

[Golden Nugget]

Good result - a draw away in Moscow is great, as many would have mentioned.

The first half was horrible. we had a lot of possession - but really didn't do too much with it. I'm not sure if CSKA were well organized or our movement was poor. Second half was a lot better where we took off a holding midfielder and replacing him with Fellaini. The only other complaint here was not taking Rojo off for Blind (or Darmian) sooner - we made Fernandez a look a lot better than he actually is.

With the attacking players we have, I would like to see them mix it up a bit more - like Ronaldo-Rooney-Tevez swapping positions. Despite scoring, it was probably the worst I've seen of Martial - and since Rooney wasn't having much luck up front, they can always swap it around a bit - like what Mata and Herrera do. The final negative note was that I felt CSKA tired towards the end and it was our game for the taking. I understand that we didn't want to lose the game (and they looked dangerous on the counter) - but there was a chance to win it towards the end but it was not taken. When Memphis came on I thought it'll be a good chance for him to really attack these tiring players - instead he just reminded us all why he was dropped in the first place (only memory I have of him was doing three dummies and falling over).

Positives -
Martial didn't lose his head after the handball and recovered with a goal and generally decent play.
Despite CSKA looking dangerous on the counter, I felt that we did have things covered well (bar the penalty and the long shot when De Gea was caught off his line).
Valencia played well and actually attacked well second half, making overlapping runs.
Lingard will never be a star player, but he can be a very handy, intelligent player for us. Looked positive and willing to

 

[Sepukku]

• Jones was sleeping at the rebound penalty. Otherwise he had a good game.
• Rooney is playing badly but he doesn't get any good balls either. He should be dropped for good if this continues.
• Martial looks like value for money. Same goes for Sneiderlin.
• Rojo can be a very good defender but he isn't and i don't know if he will ever be one. As LVG said at the presser, he is not the finished product yet.
• Herrera should be a starter. He has the energy and is a threat.
• Schweinsteiger is not consistent enough. Like Rooney, he plays terrible at times all tough the class is there.
• We are lucky to have Smalling. The rise of his quality is visible in his attitude, in the way he moves and argues on the field.
• If we would get 5-10 million for Lingard we should take it because he has nothing to add that isn't already there.
• Depay needs more time to figure out if he wants to be a very good player who takes advantage of the quality he has, or a gangsta mobster who decided to rebel after his parents divorce. Making a final decision on his haircut might improve his focus on football afterwards.
• Despite having decided on the haircut, Marouane is just a luxury player. We should sell him to Utah Jazz because he's better with his hands than with his feet.
• What is wrong with Darmian? Why is he not playing?
• From time to time, it's nice to remember that Tony V, despite having only one leg, is producing some goals and to give him the credit he deserves.
• I am glad we bought Daley Blind. He is doing his best to help the team and sometimes you cannot ask more than that.
• Still don't understand why we loaned Januzaj.

Regarding the result last night, yeah it wasn't what we expected. But then again, last time when we played there we barely got the win with a better team. Win all our home games and we will make it to the next stage.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

How can you give it that with us regularly putting three past teams this season? In European away games you expect to be more conservative - especially in light of our game v PSV where we were too all out and got done on the break.

Goals aren't everything though! We put 3 past Sunderland but nobody can tell me that was a great performance? Nor was the Southampton game!

I accept that away from home in Europe you do need to be a bit more controlled. But last night wasn't the exception to the rule.

Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, Swansea, Arsenal, Sunderland, Wolfsburg, CSKA, Southampton were all pretty boring dire performances. For some people it's about results and that's fine. Results wise overall it's been pretty good this year but I don't care so much about results.

 

[Gerald G]

I thought we started the first half passing quickly and incisively with Lingard picking up good positions but then we conceded the penalty which was stupid from Martial.
For the rest of the half we were poor. Pedestrian in possession. The tempo was so slow, something which Van Gaal mentioned in his post match interview.

We were better in the second half, started getting in better positions, the tempo improved then a couple half chances. Thankfully we then got the goal from a great Martial header. I thought Valencia supported our winger on that side really well but then his final ball more often than not was atrocious. Plus he really needs to try and take on a the opposition fullback when he has the chance.

After the goal we slowed down a bit. Understandably we didn't want to keep attacking too much and lose the game but I still think we could have been slightly more direct. I thought we were going to win it late on when Memphis crossed it to Martial and he tried to head it back to Fellaini but it wasn't to be.

A point is decent but I'm disappointed with the lack of chances created especially in that first half. Rojo should have supported Martial better too which he really failed to do.

I would play a similar team vs City.