[pauldyson1uk]

 

[MemphisDepay]

That was more down to a bad day at the office for Aquero than anything we did.

It was the same type of stats that we had against West Brom and Hull yet people said that we battered them without being able to finish.

The fact that we only managed 1 touch on the edge of their area in the whole of the second half shows how much they dominated the game.

Yeah I'm not disputing they dominated the game but the word destroyed is just too much.

I'm not going to go in to detail about what everyone thought about Hull and West Brom games. The BBC report for both games has their keepers down as man of the match though which kind of explains most of it. One of lines from the Hull game - 'Eldin Jakupovic made a string of fine saves'. Did De Gea make a string of fine saves in yesterday's game for example? One of the quotes from the match report 'with too many efforts off target or lacking the power to trouble United keeper David de Gea'.

Whilst I'm not saying the BBC is the greatest news agency in the world, their match reports are usually on the right lines. Aguero not being at his best doesn't take away from the fact that they didn't have many great chances.

Fwiw I don't have much recollection of either the Hull or West Brom games and don't know what everyone thought about them. You have to judge yesterday's game on its own merit and as I've said, City did dominate but didn't create many clear chances neither did De Gea have to make a string of difficult saves and so to say we were destroyed is far from the truth.

 

[Polite Poster]

I sense you are a City supporter?? Anyway, you can't ignore these stats, don't let perception cloud your judgement (something even I do all the time). Sergio is still City's best option up top I feel. Jesus is not yet proven, a lot of promise I'll grant you but there's nobody in the league better at scoring goals than Kun Aguero.

I am a City fan and I watch all the games, Stats don't lie and the stats tell us that Aguero's conversion rate is poor. My eyes tell me he misses plenty of good chances. Last night wasn't a one off.

Jesus is not proven over multiple seasons but he is in the short span of his career so far. Pep may play them both together but there is no way that, if fit, he will play Aguero ahead of Jesus.

Which is why I don't think Aguero will want to stay and City will need to sign another forward.

 

[Fully Fledged]

 

[Sentient Meat]

I feel like you are mixing two very distinct things here.

Regarding Fellaini first maybe you are right about profile, rather than volume, but as a man in commercial finance I know as well as anyone that profile is key. Better to make mistakes that fly under the radar. And Fellaini doesn't bring enough to make up for the screw ups.

Rooney had temperament issues back in his younger year's, but he was a beast of a striker so you let it slide just a little more.

Don't get me wrong anyone who gets sent off outside of a challenge is a straight up idiot.

Zlatan is a bad comparison. I know some said blessing, rather than blessing in disguise, but these are very distinct. Blessing is how I would refer to selling Fellaini and replacing him with someone better, which shouldn't be too difficult!

Blessing in disguise, is saying super sucks, but it might just work out. As it turns out Zlatan would likely have helped a lot last night as a strong target.

But the point of blessing in disguise was as much about the long run and younger players having the chance to prove their worth. Not saying that it is definitely a better outcome in the short term, just that it might work out and that certainly helps the long run.

I would say more like "profiling is key"... Rooney still goes off ranting and screaming at the drop of the hat, but because he's Mr. England he gets a pass most of the time. Or Ander Herrera... makes wild tackles all the time, but because he looks like a Spanish schoolboy and not a villain from central casting... he also is portrayed as passionate rather than sinister. I by no means think Fellaini's a perfect player, but we were in jeopardy that game more because of Darmian's random clearances and slippery feet, or Mkhitaryan and Martial's inability to generate any sort of attack than from Fellaini's mediocre day. Yet as per usual, Marouane's the scapegoat.

I get what people meant about Zlatan, but God forbid the player happens to read some of the cynical crap people were saying... he's largely responsible for why we even have a shot at top 4, and people are mostly talking about silver linings instead of sympathizing with or thanking a man who suffered the worst injury of his career.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Yeah I'm not disputing they dominated the game but the word destroyed is just too much.

I'm not going to go in to detail about what everyone thought about Hull and West Brom games. The BBC report for both games has their keepers down as man of the match though which kind of explains most of it. One of lines from the Hull game - 'Eldin Jakupovic made a string of fine saves'. Did De Gea make a string of fine saves in yesterday's game for example? One of the quotes from the match report 'with too many efforts off target or lacking the power to trouble United keeper David de Gea'.

Whilst I'm not saying the BBC is the greatest news agency in the world, their match reports are usually on the right lines. Aguero not being at his best doesn't take away from the fact that they didn't have many great chances.

Fwiw I don't have much recollection of either the Hull or West Brom games and don't know what everyone thought about them. You have to judge yesterday's game on its own merit and as I've said, City did dominate but didn't create many clear chances neither did De Gea have to make a string of difficult saves and so to say we were destroyed is far from the truth.

Ah so it was the word used that you took exception too. As I have said in the edited post Battered would have probably been a better word. As Batter means to strike repeatedly.

As for West Brom, our stats are not as good as good City last night.
18 shots for us 19 for City last night
3 shots on target to 6 last night
We did have more possession 75% to 69% last night

How the goal keeper becomes man of the match with only 3 shots on targetis beyond me. No one must have really stood out in the game.

 

[ravelston]

Hard to believe that in 22 pages of comments there appears to have been only one mention of TFM's injury. Going to make midfield interesting on Sunday.

 

[Wumminator]

How many more games have we played than Citythis season?

 

[Fully Fledged]

Hard to believe that in 22 pages of comments there appears to have been only one mention of TFM's injury. Going to make midfield interesting on Sunday.

WTF? I didn't realise that he had got injured. The injuries are mounting up.

 

[Yorkeontop]

I am a City fan and I watch all the games, Stats don't lie and the stats tell us that Aguero's conversion rate is poor. My eyes tell me he misses plenty of good chances. Last night wasn't a one off.

Jesus is not proven over multiple seasons but he is in the short span of his career so far. Pep may play them both together but there is no way that, if fit, he will play Aguero ahead of Jesus.

Which is why I don't think Aguero will want to stay and City will need to sign another forward.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/26/why-z...eing-good-news-for-manchester-united-6596131/ (See chances missed stat. Obviously it will be more for Kun after these last couple of games but as you can see, everyone considered good goal scorer is missing chances, it is the norm.)

As far as Jesus over Aguero goes, I can see how Pep likes the sexier, slicker element Gabriel brings but he was a teenager as recently as 3 weeks ago, he surely can't be better than an in prime Sergio, not yet anyway. You guys are going to regret letting Kun go if it comes to that because I just can't see how you replace his production anytime soon.

 

[Treble]

It wasn't a bad game for us, given the circumstances. Good defending, etc.


But is 31% possession our worst in the history of the PL? Reckon it was higher vs Liverpool away.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Hard to believe that in 22 pages of comments there appears to have been only one mention of TFM's injury. Going to make midfield interesting on Sunday.

I saw that at the end of the game. The others were telling him to shake it off but you could tell the kid was in more trouble than his team mates were appreciating. You could his shoulder was the issue.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/timothy-fosu-mensah-gives-injury-10314336

 

[Fully Fledged]

I saw that at the end of the game. The others were telling him to shake it off but you could tell the kid was in more trouble than his team mates were appreciating. You could his shoulder was the issue.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/timothy-fosu-mensah-gives-injury-10314336

Are you sure they didn't just have Taylor Swift on their ipods?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You have to take into account who the chances fell to if you are going on about the ease of a chance. Most of there's fell to Aguero probably the most consistent striker over the last 6 seasons of the Premier League while our main chance fell to Ander who has scored once in the league this season.

We played that game again 100 times and Aguero would score that chance that hit the post 90 times while Ander might put that header away once or twice.

We were not only lucky because they missed chances but because of the quality of the player who missed the chances.

Now I'm not having a go at Ander he's a good midfielder but he is not a prolific goal scorer.

I'd argue that Miikhitaryan's chance was just as good and he's a player that's supposed to take chances like that. Ander's chance was the sort of header you'd expect a defender to score, never mind a goalscorer.

 

[shield]

Good points.

The main problem yesterday was not the tactics, if you ask me.

It was the execution by the mid-fielders and some in the defence.

To soak in attacks and counter requires the ability to retain possession the few times you get the ball and also the ability to find through passes that can set your quick attackers in play. Carrick, Fellaini and Mikhi failed in this regard. Mikhi particularly was disappointing and losing balls, not keeping it, etc have little to do with where you are asked to play on the pitch.

I also think it would have been a disaster to place Fellaini right in front of the back four. He's too clumsy and erratic for such a position when you are defending deep. He could easily have caused a penalty or free kicks in dangerous areas.

All in all, in as much as Jose needs to tweak his tactics at times, I think our primary problem this season has been more of failure of personnel. Some players simply lost form or failed to actualize their potential too many times. If you look at the whole season, players like Martial, Mikhi, Lingard, Mata, Dermian, Shaw, Smalling, Jones, and even Pogba, have been way too inconsistent. At the highest level of football, you need most of your players to be at top level for at least 90% of the season. Most of our players have been blowing hot and cold all season.

Agree with what you have said about execution.

Think players are still adapting to Mourinho's game plan. I don't think the plan was to just go on defending and not attack at all. Midfield was a problem yesterday while attacking, and they just could not execute the "soak up pressure and hit on counter" strategy. It may also be because they were fatigued (Herrera) or because they are a bit past it (Carrick) or because they are just not that good with the ball (Fellaini).

Mourinho's attack usually revolves around individuals. He can organize the defense very well. So, if a player is missing in defense, Mourinho can get another replacement to slot right in without affecting the defensive shape. But his attack is hugely reliant on fixed players. That is why Pogba's absence was felt hugely in our attack. Don't think Pogba could have done anything more to help the defense, but our attack suffered because of his absence. Also, even with Pogba, we are still missing crucial parts of the attacking puzzle and Mourinho will deal with this in the summer window.

That he got a team full of replacements to satisfactorily execute the larger part of his strategy is remarkable. I really don't expect a lot when I see Fellaini and Carrick in midfield. Even then, both of them performed very well defensively. But defending and then bringing the ball out requires quite a lot of skill and I don't think we have the correct balance to do that yet. It is the opposite of the attacking strategy where you need players who are attack minded but can also sniff danger and contribute defensively.

I have said this earlier, we need to get used to seeing "parked bus" like performances till the end of the season, even against minnows. This is not because this is how Mourinho has set us up but because because the squad lacks correct personnel to implement the "defend and counter" strategy" and they are only able to execute the "defend" part well.

Currently, the way things stand, I think the players will just about be able to implement something like, "defend well and make feeble attacking attempts", but given that we are at least "defending" very well, I am OK with our performance. Not overjoyed but OK. The "attacking" part will come eventually.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I'd argue that Miikhitaryan's chance was just as good and he's a player that's supposed to take chances like that. Ander's chance was the sort of header you'd expect a defender to score, never mind a goalscorer.

He's not a defender or a striker. Midfielders are the least competent players on the field with their heads.

As for Mkhi. If someone said I was going to be shot unless someone can score a goal. I'd take Aguero over Mkhi any day of the week.

 

[Dan]

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

I'd argue that Miikhitaryan's chance was just as good and he's a player that's supposed to take chances like that. Ander's chance was the sort of header you'd expect a defender to score, never mind a goalscorer.

Exactly. Mkhi's chance was first of all, on the ground and second, Bravo wasn't exactly well positioned - he should have buried it, any corner would have done.

 

[Eriku]

Aguero's chance was miles harder. Ball was whipped in at pace and he had to time it just right to escape his marker, and still beat De Gea at his near post, with De Gea at his near post. Herrera incomparison was utterly unmarked and had all the time to direct his header. Even the chance Bravo gifted us first half was superior to Ageuro's chance. And we really shouldn't be counting offside goals as chances.

Herrera's also not a striker, and I don't know how much I'd bet on him converting that header. But ok, let's leave that one aside, still they had the best chance of the match with Agüero hitting the post from point blank range, I would not say that Mkhi's chance was bigger. At best it would be on par.

And sure, offside might mean a chance doesn't get chalked up in the stats... but if we were to generate a tremendous chance and a player being overly hasty and needlessly running too soon causing the ref to blow for offside, most people would consider that a screw up, and tantamount to messing up a chance. That's essentially what happened. A definitional move of saying offside means it's stricken from the record as a chance doesn't really hold much sway with me... How anybody could consider us to have had the superior chances to win the match baffles me. They might not have crafted many clear chances, but they were closer to winning it than us, by a mile.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Herrera's also not a striker, and I don't know how much I'd bet on him converting that header. But ok, let's leave that one aside, still they had the best chance of the match with Agüero hitting the post from point blank range, I would not say that Mkhi's chance was bigger. At best it would be on par.

And sure, offside might mean a chance doesn't get chalked up in the stats... but if we were to generate a tremendous chance and a player being overly hasty and needlessly running too soon causing the ref to blow for offside, most people would consider that a screw up, and tantamount to messing up a chance. That's essentially what happened. A definitional move of saying offside means it's stricken from the record as a chance doesn't really hold much sway with me... How anybody could consider us to have had the superior chances to win the match baffles me. They might not have crafted many clear chances, but they were closer to winning it than us, by a mile.

It shouldn't baffle you at all! We had the 2 best clear cut chances. For all their utter dominance of us they had one. Aguero's which was harder than either of ours. Herrera not being a striker is really not an excuse for missing a header whilst unmarked and free to pick a spot. And I'm not saying they didn't deserve to win it more or were not closer to winning it. The simple truth is they were lucky to escape the ultimate smash and grab defeat. They came very close to suffering what we suffered at home to Portsmouth in the FA cup several years ago.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Such a disappointing peformance. Jose seems to forget that Pep is no longer in charge of Barcelona. Instead of pressurising them and exposing their defensive frailties, we conceded too much ground, focused too much on sitting deep and defending, and our attack suffered as a result. I hate watching us play like this against a team of city's standard.

 

[Eriku]

It shouldn't baffle you at all! We had the 2 best clear cut chances. For all their utter dominance of us they had one. Aguero's which was harder than either of ours. Herrera not being a striker is really not an excuse for missing a header whilst unmarked and free to pick a spot. And I'm not saying they didn't deserve to win it more or were not closer to winning it. The simple truth is they were lucky to escape the ultimate smash and grab defeat. They came very close to suffering what we suffered at home to Portsmouth in the FA cup several years ago.

You're citing a match where the team with the best chances lost, pretty much underlines my point if you consider them anything like analogous. I know I don't, because that's one of the most atrocious spectacles of bad luck I've ever seen, which this match wasn't. If I were to pick a side deserving to win yesterday, it would have been City.

Our tactics saw us pinned back so much that I consider it pretty much a coin toss whether they get more proper chances or not. There was also the occasional penalty shout and loose ball that we clearly didn't control. Disciplined performance or not, at some point their efforts would lead to something, and I consider it a matter of luck that we didn't lose.

Anyway, clearly we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[TheReligion]

If having thus far given up the 3rd least amount of goals this season, and the least over the last several seasons + winning titles, by all means leak away

The Champions League says hiiii

 

[GM K]

Agree with what you have said about execution.

Think players are still adapting to Mourinho's game plan. I don't think the plan was to just go on defending and not attack at all. Midfield was a problem yesterday while attacking, and they just could not execute the "soak up pressure and hit on counter" strategy. It may also be because they were fatigued (Herrera) or because they are a bit past it (Carrick) or because they are just not that good with the ball (Fellaini).

Mourinho's attack usually revolves around individuals. He can organize the defense very well. So, if a player is missing in defense, Mourinho can get another replacement to slot right in without affecting the defensive shape. But his attack is hugely reliant on fixed players. That is why Pogba's absence was felt hugely in our attack. Don't think Pogba could have done anything more to help the defense, but our attack suffered because of his absence. Also, even with Pogba, we are still missing crucial parts of the attacking puzzle and Mourinho will deal with this in the summer window.

That he got a team full of replacements to satisfactorily execute the larger part of his strategy is remarkable. I really don't expect a lot when I see Fellaini and Carrick in midfield. Even then, both of them performed very well defensively. But defending and then bringing the ball out requires quite a lot of skill and I don't think we have the correct balance to do that yet. It is the opposite of the attacking strategy where you need players who are attack minded but can also sniff danger and contribute defensively.

I have said this earlier, we need to get used to seeing "parked bus" like performances till the end of the season, even against minnows. This is not because this is how Mourinho has set us up but because because the squad lacks correct personnel to implement the "defend and counter" strategy" and they are only able to execute the "defend" part well.

Currently, the way things stand, I think the players will just about be able to implement something like, "defend well and make feeble attacking attempts", but given that we are at least "defending" very well, I am OK with our performance. Not overjoyed but OK. The "attacking" part will come eventually.

This is very much on point.

 

[Zoo]

I'm slightly surprised that nothing has been said about City cynically fouling Rashford and Martial plus Yaya and Sterling trying to con the ref.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You're citing a match where the team with the best chances lost, pretty much underlines my point if you consider them anything like analogous.

Which means you have again simply missed mine. For all City's dominance of play the shouls gave lost like we did that day. Yet unlike us that day, they did not have the majoroity of the better chances. Its not like they were forcing De Gea into worldies of saves, and our defence into last ditch tackles to stave off goals...

I know I don't, because that's one of the most atrocious spectacles of bad luck I've ever seen, which this match wasn't. If I were to pick a side deserving to win yesterday, it would have been City.

So would anyone else. That does not take away the fact they were lucky not to suffer a smash and grab defeat. For the fact is they created one clear cut chance all game. Yet the team they utterly dominated in terms of play created 2.

Our tactics saw us pinned back so much that I consider it pretty much a coin toss whether they get more proper chances or not.

We were pinned back because we were utterly awful in possession. It has zero to do with tactics. Our plan was to defend stoutly and intelligently, letting them dominate the ball, whilst hurting them on the counter as they pushed forward. That us how we even created those two chances I highlighted. But sadly for us we got progressively worse with our use of the ball that by mid second half we simply couldn't string up to 3 passes together

...
Anyway, clearly we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Indeed

 

[Mike09]

I think draw was a fair result for both sides. We defend well and had two best chances of the match while City dominated us but the chances they got weren't so much threats compared to ours.

Given the current situation we got into (many injuries), I'll take the draw. If Pogba didn't get injured I expected us to play more offensive, got a win than parking the bus and draw but when I heard the news of Pogba being injured I wasn't confident at all especially to score goals and being more creative.

 

[FCBarca]

The Champions League says hiiii

5 cups, hi back

 

[FCBarca]

It is a two team league these days though. Everyone knows it. And why are you so obsessed with Man City? It's weird.

Weird is recycling the same weak arguments like Messi on a wet Thursday at Stoke. It can't be both they have a weak defense yet always in contention for trophies or an easy defenseless league while several have shown European superiority

And it has nothing to do with City, no one is more blaugrana than Pep

 

[Crossie]

For what it's worth:
Opta recorded 19 shots including 1 big chance for City, 3 shots including 1 big chance for United.

Michael Caley's expected goal model says a total of 1.5 xG for City, 0.4 xG for United.

 

[Wumminator]

All this talk about our extra games, just checked and we've played four more games than City this year. Doesn't sound a lot but will start to impact the team.

 

[Member 90887]

All this talk about our extra games, just checked and we've played four more games than City this year. Doesn't sound a lot but will start to impact the team.

I don't know where you checked and how you got to that number but it's incorrect.


United : 58 for united (8 in April, 27 since the begining of the year (1st january)), and 7 remaining (+ 1 if we play the final of the europa league)
Premier league : 33
Community shield : 1
League cup : 6
Fa cup : 4
Europa league : 14



City : 50 games for city (6 in April, 22 since the begining of the year (1st january)), 5 remaining
Premier league : 33
League cup : 2
Fa cup : 5
Champions league : 8 + 2 (qualif in august)

 

[Wumminator]

I don't know where you checked and how you got to that number but it's incorrect.


United : 58 for united (8 in April, 27 since the begining of the year (1st january)), and 7 remaining (+ 1 if we play the final of the europa league)
Premier league : 33
Community shield : 1
League cup : 6
Fa cup : 4
Europa league : 14



City : 50 games for city (6 in April, 22 since the begining of the year (1st january)), 5 remaining
Premier league : 33
League cup : 2
Fa cup : 5
Champions league : 8 + 2 (qualif in august)

I didn't count the upcoming games. I just went on sky sports and added up all the games we've played.

Edit: and didn't count the charity shield.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I didn't count the upcoming games. I just went on sky sports and added up all the games we've played.

Edit: and didn't count the charity shield.

Will be interesting how many pre-season games both club played, not that more is worse, that more is actually better. Our pre-season will not have helped us one iota.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

All this talk about our extra games, just checked and we've played four more games than City this year. Doesn't sound a lot but will start to impact the team.

Playing on Thursday nights makes a big difference.

 

[Member 90887]

I didn't count the upcoming games. I just went on sky sports and added up all the games we've played.

Edit: and didn't count the charity shield.

Well, those (58 and 50) are the games played only, with 8 and 5 still to play for each team.

Will be interesting how many pre-season games both club played, not that more is worse, that more is actually better. Our pre-season will not have helped us one iota.

The two teams played 3 games.

 

[AndyMUFC]

Just caught up with it after having to miss it Thursday. Terrible game and we did virtually nothing but defend after a promising first 20 minutes but we did it well. Was a good result from us, even more so with Fellaini's idiocy late on.

Well, it will be if we back it up by beating Swansea anyway...

 

[Stookie]

Did fellaini hit his head of aguero, yes or no? That's the only question that needs answering the rest what aguero does is irrelevant

No it's not irrelevant. It's not a head butt. Yes Fellaini is stupid, he got played plain and simple. Just coz someone rubs heads doesn't make it a head butt. It's downright cheating, and that's not irrelevant. Time and again we see players having a tussle and their heads are touching do we not? Should we send them all off?