[Ban]

Cheers mate. All I hear was whining about the penalty and saying they are better at keeping the ball. He clearly forgets our goal also came from a gaffe by their defense so he has no leg to stand on with the performance in the first half.

He was really complimentary of the way they play, what more would you want.

 

[NK86]

The Lukaku hate on here today is abysmal. He had a very poor game - but he has a role in Jose's team.

As a one off result, today wasn't the worst. But, in the context of what City are doing, (only 2 points dropped from 16 games!), it looks bad. We need to have some perspective here. I hope City slip up 2-3 games in a row to make the league look like what is should - but if they play like they have so far, they'll well be beyond 100 points this season.

I'd still like to think that Jose is doing well - and he is adapting to what United want - i.e., youth in the starting XI. But now that the chess board has been completely changed by City - we may well need a big purchase in January to give the squad a boost and the belief that they are as good so that we can keep up (as far as possible) with City and increase the pressure.

I really hope we buy Griezmann so that he can fill the hole that Mhiki has left in the squad with his very poor performances. Lingard did well today, but we need someone else (with the winning mentality) that the squad can look to when the chips are down. Pogba alone can't do it for us. 1 injury to him (or suspension in today's case) shouldn't result in such a huge ball retention issue for us!

Ball retention is not all based on Pogba. There are 9 other outfield players. It's the tactics which need to be fixed first.

 

[haram]

Result has got me so down

 

[MataFanatic]

Devastating result for us today. City miles better in the end. The way they keep the ball and control games has to be respected. We were too predictable again today. Just hit and hope up to Lukaku and later to Ibra is not good enough for Man United. We should've been more inventive against City today. Need big, big favours from other teams now starting with Swans this week and Spurs next Saturday. If City were to draw those games and we win against Cherries and Baggies then gap only 7 points. Clutching at straws I know but we can always dream

 

[James Peril]

City are better than us and have better players, it’s not rocket science. We need to equal that by buying better players. City have won all their games minus one where they got a red card, a game they also dominated completely - this is not us being bad, it’s them being the best. They purchased full-backs for 120M, they have raised the bar.

Furthermore, does anyone expect to win against Silva, de Bruyne and Fernandinho by fielding Matic, Herrera and Lingard?

Like I said, we need better players - simple, simple conclusion. So let’s get that second place and then buy better players in January and in the summer. To catch City, we need Alex Sandro, Verratti, Griezmann and so forth - we cannot field Fellaini, Lingard and Herrera (this edition) and expect more than a challenge for the top four.

 

[Godfather]

Deserved loss. Our football against the top teams has mostly been abysmal this season

 

[NK86]

He was really complimentary of the way they play, what more would you want.

Yeah and not a word on why he set up like he did in the first half. Maybe he didn't need to say so because he is like that in almost all the matches against teams who are half decent in keeping possession. His default set up is defend at all costs.

 

[Ban]

The Lukaku hate on here today is abysmal. He had a very poor game - but he has a role in Jose's team.

As a one off result, today wasn't the worst. But, in the context of what City are doing, (only 2 points dropped from 16 games!), it looks bad. We need to have some perspective here. I hope City slip up 2-3 games in a row to make the league look like what is should - but if they play like they have so far, they'll well be beyond 100 points this season.

I'd still like to think that Jose is doing well - and he is adapting to what United want - i.e., youth in the starting XI. But now that the chess board has been completely changed by City - we may well need a big purchase in January to give the squad a boost and the belief that they are as good so that we can keep up (as far as possible) with City and increase the pressure.

I really hope we buy Griezmann so that he can fill the hole that Mhiki has left in the squad with his very poor performances. Lingard did well today, but we need someone else (with the winning mentality) that the squad can look to when the chips are down. Pogba alone can't do it for us. 1 injury to him (or suspension in today's case) shouldn't result in such a huge ball retention issue for us!

Nice and reasonable post. Unfortunately your call for some perspective will come unanswered by many.

City raised the bar unfortunately and really high so we need to make sure to come close and fight it out with them.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

I don’t like the tactics. I understand them, and had the long ball actually yielded more than one goal (rojo’s ball that Delph messed up was one of his worst passes of the day but luckily we punished the mistake) then we would be heralding “that’s how you beat city”

The set up was all wrong. Rojo plays considerably better in a back 3, and Chris smalling is genuinely terrified of the ball. That fear is what caused him to drop so deep (and as a result, the other defenders) and the space we left between our lines wasn’t even under 12 level. City should have punished us more in the first half and we went into the break completely undeserving of the scoreline. When I realized that we weren’t going to alter our tactics to start controlling central midfield, I found myself dealing with my rage by trying to enjoy just how talented a footballer David Silva is. He’s an absolute joy to watch and was clear MOM for me.

The most disappointing thing is that the goals came from set pieces and defensive calamity. I shouldn’t have to tell Romelu Lukaku, a player who cost £90million that you don’t swing your wrong leg aimlessly at a ball in the box. That’s nigh on unforgivable. He was trusted to bully the centre backs today and hold the ball up but he’s simply incapable of it.

It’s not knee jerk, and I’m fairly positive but even with a win today, I’m sure it’s fair to say city still win the league anyway all things considered. Luckily, 3 of our 4 rivals for second place dropped points, and effectively today’s result is a non point in the grand scheme.

Would pogba really have changed things today? Our plan to bypass their press was get the ball to our centre backs and launch it, bypassing The midfield completely. Sure, Pogba could have grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and put in a better display than v Arsenal, but that’s maybe a bit of wishful thinking.

Onwards and upwards.

 

[Ban]

Yeah and not a word on why he set up like he did in the first half. Maybe he didn't need to say so because he is like that in almost all the matches against teams who are half decent in keeping possession. His default set up is defend at all costs.

Not at home though. This was the exception and we didn't defend at all costs in the 2nd half. Not that it helps in any way. Of course he wont say the things you wont. Hopefully behind the closed doors he will deal with the issues we have.

 

[NK86]

It's not new too. I keep hearing that last few months like we're going to fall in some huge crisis, yet here we are still 2nd. We wont win the league but we'll be 2nd imo, 3rd at worse.

It's not just the position. It's how we have performed against all big teams with the exception being Arsenal last weekend. We play like a mid table side hoping to nick a point.

 

[Bilbo]

Last few weeks? Since Liverpool?
Since Liverpool we won a fair amount of games and progressed to the last 16 of CL.

We've been second best in the games that mattered. Against our peers. The only match we won we could have conceded 6 on another day

 

[NK86]

Not at home though. This was the exception and we didn't defend at all costs in the 2nd half. Not that it helps in any way. Of course he wont say the things you wont. Hopefully behind the closed doors he will deal with the issues we have.

This was not the exception. Maybe it was done to a more extreme level but we always go into big matches with the plan of first not conceding. If the tactical set up is defensive how do we ever hope to play like the United of old.

 

[Ban]

I don’t like the tactics. I understand them, and had the long ball actually yielded more than one goal (rojo’s ball that Delph messed up was one of his worst passes of the day but luckily we punished the mistake) then we would be heralding “that’s how you beat city”

The set up was all wrong. Rojo plays considerably better in a back 3, and Chris smalling is genuinely terrified of the ball. That fear is what caused him to drop so deep (and as a result, the other defenders) and the space we left between our lines wasn’t even under 12 level. City should have punished us more in the first half and we went into the break completely undeserving of the scoreline. When I realized that we weren’t going to alter our tactics to start controlling central midfield, I found myself dealing with my rage by trying to enjoy just how talented a footballer David Silva is. He’s an absolute joy to watch and was clear MOM for me.

The most disappointing thing is that the goals came from set pieces and defensive calamity. I shouldn’t have to tell Romelu Lukaku, a player who cost £90million that you don’t swing your wrong leg aimlessly at a ball in the box. That’s nigh on unforgivable. He was trusted to bully the centre backs today and hold the ball up but he’s simply incapable of it.

It’s not knee jerk, and I’m fairly positive but even with a win today, I’m sure it’s fair to say city still win the league anyway all things considered. Luckily, 3 of our 4 rivals for second place dropped points, and effectively today’s result is a non point in the grand scheme.

Would pogba really have changed things today? Our plan to bypass their press was get the ball to our centre backs and launch it, bypassing The midfield completely. Sure, Pogba could have grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and put in a better display than v Arsenal, but that’s maybe a bit of wishful thinking.

Onwards and upwards.

In my humble opinion things would have been different with Pogba in, we could have had more possesion and shoudnt have bypass their midfield all the time. Cause he's capable of keeping the ball under pressure and make something with it. Saying all that we shouldn't be so reliant on him so we need a backup for him in January or in the summer. Of course we won't buy a player of his abilities but we need someone who will come in and make a job instead of him when he's out. .

 

[Backrow Singer]

We just couldn't keep the ball and with Lingard, Matic and Herrera in midfield, Rashford and Martial wide and Lakaku up front, I don't see how we were ever going to. We tried to hit them on the counter but there just wasn't enough quality on the deliveries. Too many passes were over hit or miss placed. We were never going to be able to play through them so we needed either some poor defending on their part or a moment of individual quality: we scored off the former and Lakaku should have buried the latter but didn't.

We needed to be perfect defensively and we weren't. We gifted them two goals, two unacceptable goals. Concede goals like that and you deserve everything you get

The problem we've got is that we're too overreliant on one player and when he's out of the team, everything has to change. Pogba plays today and we go into it differently, we go in a bit more confident and with a bit of swagger. We just don't have anyone else who's in the same universe as him and because of how we play, when he isn't on the pitch we find ourselves sinking deeper and deeper because we can't transition with the ball. When you talk about players coming in, you talk about Mkhitaryan who is too soft, Mata who potentially would have been a shout looking back but we aren't exactly flooded with options.

If you set up like we did today with the players out there, you need to be clinical in attack and absolutely immaculate defensively. We were neither and lost 2-1. If City had taken their chances it could have been more.

 

[Ban]

This was not the exception. Maybe it was done to a more extreme level but we always go into big matches with the plan of first not conceding. If the tactical set up is defensive how do we ever hope to play like the United of old.

So you're saying we're playing defensively against top 6 even in home games?
Cause I haven't seen it like that at all. Remember, Chelsea Arsenal and Spurs last season? Liverpool?
This season vs Spurs was a mixed bag but it certainly wasn't defending at all costs.

 

[Bilbo]

Nice and reasonable post. Unfortunately your call for some perspective will come unanswered by many.

City raised the bar unfortunately and really high so we need to make sure to come close and fight it out with them.

City aren't world beaters though. Far from it. They have huge potential for improvement still. They are a very good team obviously.

The concern for me is our approach to the game. It's as if we knew we didn't have a prayer. What sort of message does that send? If you give a team 75% of the ball you are going to lose 9 times out of 10

 

[Sing you a song]

This is the toughest lge in the world with 6 ( City , Us , Chelsea , Liveroool , Arsenal , Spurs ) teams all having squads capable of a sustained title challenge .
There are no easy games in the prem every game is a battle ( you only need to look at the results Huddersfield and Burnley have had this season to know that) .
No team will dominate season after season the way United did for so long as those 6 all now have the finances to compete for some of the very best players .
City will be favourites for the foreseeable future because they are the one team likely to stay ahead of the chasing pack in terms of spending power , they won't win it every year but they will be the ones to beat . If Neymar ( or messi ) was to realise what a cock up he made going to Paris can you really see him going anywhere but City ( never thought I would say that ) because they alone will be prepared to get him whatever the cost .
Until we can compete again at the very top of the market I think we are likely to stay second best.

 

[Ban]

We've been second best in the games that mattered. Against our peers. The only match we won we could have conceded 6 on another day

We were 2nd best to Spurs?
We won vs Arsenal. If my grandad was a grandma and all. If they scored more they would have won.

 

[NK86]

So you're saying we're playing defensively against top 6 even in home games?
Cause I haven't seen it like that at all. Remember, Chelsea Arsenal and Spurs last season? Liverpool?
This season vs Spurs was a mixed bag but it certainly wasn't defending at all costs.

As I said, the degree varies but the MO remains the same. Did you watch our game against Soton this season for example? Played like we were playing Barca at Camp Nou.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Cheers mate. All I hear was whining about the penalty and saying they are better at keeping the ball. He clearly forgets our goal also came from a gaffe by their defense so he has no leg to stand on with the performance in the first half.

No he doesn't he's just trying to deflect from a poor performance at home.

 

[NK86]

No he doesn't he's just trying to deflect from a poor performance at home.

A poor performance made worse by horrible tactics.

 

[Ban]

City aren't world beaters though. Far from it. They have huge potential for improvement still. They are a very good team obviously.

The concern for me is our approach to the game. It's as if we knew we didn't have a prayer. What sort of message does that send? If you give a team 75% of the ball you are going to lose 9 times out of 10

It's not an excuse but we were missing Pogba. Of course the attitude in the 1st half wasn't good, I agree on that but I think with Pogba we would have seen a slightly different game.

 

[NK86]

I dread to think of how we will set up against City away when this is how we play against them at home.

 

[sammsky1]

We played like paupers waiting for scraps to appear.

Because right now we are paupers, relative to the players and resources at Guardiola disposal.

As soon as Pogba got red carded, almost every fan feared we’d lose. We then had to cope without Bailly and Fellaini too, severe losses against a very strong and mostly fit City squad.

They are more advanced in evolution, had more investment and delivering unprecedented results: reminds me abit of our complete dominance in PL the year after the treble.

The board have some big decisions to make about what is our genuine ambition and will have to outspend City for a few transfer windows if they want to stop them creating an mini era of success.

 

[Gorse Hill Red]

So our tacticts against the bigger teams is to soak up the pressure and hit them on the break? Not once have we actually taken the game to City, Arsenal, Liverpool or Chelsea.
For a team like United and the money we have spent this is simply not good enough.
We were outplayed today in our own backyard and it’s embarrassing.

 

[manichester]

We may be able to defend but we cant build from the back when pressed and end up hoofing it anywhere. City looked fitter and better on the ball than us in every department, midfield is a concern we look so open down the middle especially when payers run at us.

We are a long way behind and need a lot more quality players bringing in who can play football.

 

[groovyalbert]

What's annoying, having digested the defeat a bit, is that City were there for the taking today.

I can handle losing to Pep's City, they're the best team in the league, but they put in a performance today which was nowhere near as good as the one's they had to/did against the other top teams in the league. We gifted them 2 goals in scenarios you would have backed us to come out on top in, and only really looked like putting them under consistent pressure immediately after they scored in the run up to half time. There were some really poor individual performances, least of all Lukaku, and some thoroughly frustrating ones, Herrera.

But what's most annoying is that, when you think of our performance today, all you can really draw on is how individuals performed. There wasn't the same sense of team cohesion that there was at Arsenal, and this - for that reason alone - is why today's performance is probably the most frustrating so far this season. Not that we lost, but that we really didn't play well together or have any sense unity about us.

 

[Strachans Cigar]

Lot of criticism of the hoofball.

....but with Pogba, Carrick, Fellaini out and Matic playing with an injury and Herrera's passing being less than great at times....

....Surely not hard to see why it was adopted against Silva and De Bruyne?

If we had Zlatan on from the start, even though he's just coming back from a major injury I'm sure more of the hoofing would have stuck than was the case with Lukaku today.

 

[Hellboy]

Both goals were very poor to concede.

 

[Ban]

As I said, the degree varies but the MO remains the same. Did you watch our game against Soton this season for example? Played like we were playing Barca at Camp Nou.

I thought since we scored so many goals this season that actually at home we're playing offensively. But what do I know.

 

[Bilbo]

It's not an excuse but we were missing Pogba. Of course the attitude in the 1st half wasn't good, I agree on that but I think with Pogba we would have seen a slightly different game.

If City were missing De Bruyne do you think the performance level would have dropped to the same degree as our own?

It would have hurt them but the tactical framework would have remained and they would still have dominated. The message we've been given today is 'No Pogba, no hope' when we come up against a good side.

We played exactly the same way that we would have expected a league 2 side to face them. 10 behind the ball. Try to nick something on the break.

 

[Noc-Z]

Mourinho has looked miserable at this club since day one. That's got to filter down through the entire squad.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

They're slightly better at football.

 

[sammsky1]

I’m strugglibg to think how else we could have set up to get a different result. In reality, they scored because of 2 self inflicted mistakes on set pieces and De Gea was rarely threatened, which tell me our defensive tactics were OK.

Likewise, without Pogba and Fellani available, how else could we have set up offensively? The only real complaint I have is our how easily we have the call away, either because Rojo hoofed it upfield or misplaced passes in the middle. Even then that was often due to Citys rabid high press.

In the end, we simply didn’t have players good enough to compete: their XI was superior to ours. Until that changes, I don’t expect us to beat them.

We are 2nd best in league though and that is substantive progress, no matter how humbling it is to be behind Manchester City.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Ball retention is not all based on Pogba. There are 9 other outfield players. It's the tactics which need to be fixed first.

Most of them shit themselves when on the ball... that doesn't help.

 

[GlassCityRedFan]

With City's constant pressing I couldn't understand why there was the urge to always keep sending the long ball to the front when it clearly wasn't working, as opposed to changing up the formation on-the-fly and one-touch passing their way out of pressure. I'm not used to seeing Utd's midfield so full of holes like I did today. I'm just glad the defense was able to bottle up City outside the box where it mattered the most.

Nevetheless, Utd lost in a close one from opportunistic right-place-at-the-right-time goals rather than defenders burned by crafty moves and passes and appearing totally outclassed. Sometimes it's just unlucky no matter how well you think you're doing. Frustrating, yes, but I'd rather lose like this than being made to look like you never never showed up in the first place. As the game wore on I was thinking to myself that this game could've went either way.

City's players stay healthy and disciplined. That factors big into a title run. Utd's top players seem to get injured too frequently or lose their composure at the wrong time, and it ends up costing them. That is perhaps the biggest difference I see.

 

[Darkhorsez]

We just couldn't keep the ball and with Lingard, Matic and Herrera in midfield, Rashford and Martial wide and Lakaku up front, I don't see how we were ever going to. We tried to hit them on the counter but there just wasn't enough quality on the deliveries. Too many passes were over hit or miss placed. We were never going to be able to play through them so we needed either some poor defending on their part or a moment of individual quality: we scored off the former and Lakaku should have buried the latter but didn't.

We needed to be perfect defensively and we weren't. We gifted them two goals, two unacceptable goals. Concede goals like that and you deserve everything you get

The problem we've got is that we're too overreliant on one player and when he's out of the team, everything has to change. Pogba plays today and we go into it differently, we go in a bit more confident and with a bit of swagger. We just don't have anyone else who's in the same universe as him and because of how we play, when he isn't on the pitch we find ourselves sinking deeper and deeper because we can't transition with the ball. When you talk about players coming in, you talk about Mkhitaryan who is too soft, Mata who potentially would have been a shout looking back but we aren't exactly flooded with options.

If you set up like we did today with the players out there, you need to be clinical in attack and absolutely immaculate defensively. We were neither and lost 2-1. If City had taken their chances it could have been more.

Very good post

 

[Fully Fledged]

A poor performance made worse by horrible tactics.

Totally. We parked the bus and hoped for a draw.

 

[Jacko21]

Whilst I'm a win-at-all-costs supporter and don't subscribe to this idea that you have to play a certain way, I do find the thought of 800+ million people watching Manchester United play hoof ball at Old Trafford quite nauseating.