[Epicurean]

United should never set up that defensively as they did. They could do it against a team like Ajax and get away with it. They can do it against Arsenal and have the luck that Arsenal are perennial bottlers in finishing off their chances. But, they couldn't do that against City, arguably the best European team right now.

I think Mourinho should come out and go take the game to them, especially at Old Trafford. Win or Lose at least it would have been with passion.

 

[RedOldBoy]

This has to be a wind up???

The irony of a glory-hunting "fan" who swapped from Liverpool to United, calling City a "plastic" club???

I don't know what you're on about. He is destined to support your lot soon by the sounds of it.

 

[predator]

Gomes liked a city players tweet of “ Manchester is blue” not really a bright idea after the senior team loses a big match of this magnitude.

I've heard he has already signed with another club.

 

[SoCross]

Feel they were there for the taking. Had one of Lukaku or Mata buried that chance, momentum would have been with us. They created very little.

Our play massively improved once Lindelof came on. Ibra sub was a bit pointless unless it had been a straight swap with Lukaku.

Was very disappointed with Valencia, no thrust from him at all.

 

[Nakhon Phanom]

Disappointing but not too surprised really.We were so timid in the first 40 minutes it took their goal for us to show a bit of fight.We had no midfielder who could hold the ball and run at their defence.....Pogba was a big miss.
Other than Dave I cant think of anyone who really earned their money.
Citys title even if they replace Pep Guardiola with Kevin Keegan !
United have to ensure they make the top 4 now which certainly isn't nailed on.

 

[Bilbo]

We simply can't just go toe to toe with them and that is obvious, we don't have the personnel.

This has been said a lot on here since the game as though this is some sort of valid excuse for our cowardly tactics.

We don't have the personnel to what? Pass the ball to a player with the same colour shirt on? Is that what we are supposed to take from this?

I was quite excited when I saw the team sheet yesterday. 3 pacey young players supporting Lukaku suggested to me that we were going to go for it. It was a fundamental mistake though. Fatal to our hopes.

Why? Because the team were clearly instructed to get 10 men behind the ball and play it long to beat the press. So our 3 young pacey attackers end up being asked to a job that's not natural to them and we pump balls up to a player that, despite his size and strength, simply isn't and never will be a hold up player.

The result of this? 75% possession conceded in the first half.

People need to understand how much of yesterday's match was dictated by the two coaches. I've seen Van Gaal take a worse United side than this to Stamford Bridge and dominate the ball. He got a lot of stick in the end for how dull we were, and rightly so, but at least he was brave. He was trying to build something here.

I'm not sure what Mourinho is trying to build here. Any progress we make under him is always destroyed when he tells our players we aren't good enough to go toe to toe against our rivals.

Mata and Mhki would both thrive playing under Pep. Probably both look world class. It's not that we don't have the personnel to do what City do. Mourinho doesn't want to.

 

[dwd]

Cheered me up

 

[Lash]

9 times out of 10 Lukaku clearance doesn’t hit another united player and fall to the only city player in the 6 yard box...

Similar to the first goal

Huddersfield - ball hit sterling who knew nothing about it and went in. Second time this season (Bournemouth being the first)

Offside goal against arsenal

Dubious penalty against Arsenal

Have to disagree with this, when the ball comes to you on your own and you pump it low, back into where all the defenders are, you can hardly expect much else.

 

[desmondisback]

We can't just point Lukaku as the responsible for our defeat, from the beginning we saw City walking in our midfield passing directly though our defense and waiting to counter attack, that would have worked better with a 352 formation.

Absolutely! Lukaku is becoming a scapegoat. Those two mistakes happened in the defensive area. He's not a defender. If his clearance hadn't unluckily ended up in a goal and he had been more lucky with his chance and had scored then no-one would have said anything.

Mous tactics didn't suit him anyway. Sitting back and often relying on hoof tactics , not easy for a striker. I'll admit he wasn't great , but responsible?? Doh!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It all changed when we brought Aguero on and decided to go for your throats.

Oh wait, we didn't need to.

Sorry, couldn't resist. On a more serious note, I was surprised how much you didn't really have a go. Yes there were a few moments, but I thought you were very passive for far too much if the game. You hardly really pressed us and I wasn't expecting that.

I don't think either side played well, but you played just a bit worse. Both teams are much better than that.

It was a typical derby game and the luckier side won. All the talk of one side being better is just spin. For if we erased the secret santas from the game it would be blatantly obvious it was largely even.

 

[desmondisback]

What a pity! then we should accept the fact that they will be playing a much better football than ours for a long long time.

Unless we learn from what they are doing over there. It's not as if we don't have the resources to buy big. It's not as if we can't get a manager ourselves who believes in playing that way as well. It would take some humility to start copying their blueprint but this is the way football is going now.

Over the decades football is slowly becoming less about physical contact and long balls and more about skill and passing. Pitches have improved , ball are lighter , and the rules are changing to reward attacking play.

The Peps of the world are the future. Jose IS a dinosaur and we have to accept it and move on. Otherwise City will become more like United than we are.

 

[Fully Fledged]

How can you say we set up to defend with that line-up? That’s an offensive line up. We just didn’t show composure on the ball and play with authority in possession. It got better in second half which just goes to show it’s all in the head... and on the training ground.

Jose was asked about it before the game.
The interviewer said 'that's an attacking side are you going for it.'
Jose replied, 'no when they have the ball we will have 11 players behind the ball.
You can play what ever players you want if you stick them all behind the ball you are playing defensive.
Rashford and Martial were second full backs yesterday not wingers and Lingard was an extra midfielder.
Our striker spent so much time back in our penalty area that he assisted both of their goals.

 

[redzer]

Out played and out classes yesterday by do I think a better team, no. Do I think a better managed team, yes.

I feel if Mor played with Peps attacking football we'd be level/ahead of City.

The only time we attacked is when we conceded and the City defense shit themselves and we scored.

Mor needs to grow a pair and realize how strong this team can be going forward and just go for it in games instead of setting up defensively.

I miss the days of Fergies attitude of if they score 4 we'll score 5.

 

[Ronetta]

It was a typical derby game and the luckier side won. All the talk of one side being better is just spin. For if we erased the secret santas from the game it would be blatantly obvious it was largely even.

I think your commendable support for your team is clouding your judgement mate to be honest.

You can't rewrite history by removing only your mistakes, and not removing any of ours. How about we don't concede with our two mistakes? We fecked about in front of your goal much more than we normally would. How about we remove those as well, and we score from a couple of them.

Sorry but the better team on the day, won.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

I've waited a bit on commenting here, to get a bit perspective.

1. I do think Mourinho's tactics have the potential to provide results in single games, but i would prefer him to find a different approach. Generally when approaching the game i'd think Pep's approach instill more confidence in his players. Saying "we'll do what we do best, good luck to the opposition stopping us" instills belief in their own style and what they can do, whilst saying "we need to change what we do, to stop the opposition" kind of does the opposite. That being said, i do believe Mou can change approach to somewhere in between if he gets a team he believes to be good enough.

2. I hate blaming the ref, so let me first say that i definately think City deserved the win today. My point is i think the refs generally grant Pep's style an advantage. They play possession-oriented attacking football, attacking with many players. This potentially leaves them open for counter attacks. However, they mitigate this by being VERY intensive in their defensive work the first few seconds after losing the ball. Often they make professional fouls to stop a counter attack when they have no other chance. What bothers me, especially today, is that the ref allows them to make these professional fouls again and again without it having any consequence. This makes their approach much less risky, and as such the refs favour them.

3. I'm really freakin' annoyed about the Pogba red card, i definately think he could have made a huge difference today, especially in the first half. Our ability to keep the ball was horrendous.

This is the most imp bit which allows them to play the way they do, if City were treated with the same standard as other teams then they would have a lot of yellow cards and won't be able to play so high up the pitch in fear of being caught out. This is the first thing that needs to be rectified. Because they play pretty football and their players are considered weak, the referees don't give them yellow cards. This needs to be pointed out by every manager as the media won't do it.

 

[André Dominguez]

Extremely dispaointed. We just rolled over like a submissive dog and never looked to be in control of the match whatsoever. We just sit there and hoped (and hoofed) for the best.

 

[Mr PG]

The positives...is we were fighting for 6th last year and we're second this time. I know we all wanted more but sometimes you gotta crawl before you can walk.

 

[Don _ Conte]

It was a typical derby game and the luckier side won. All the talk of one side being better is just spin. For if we erased the secret santas from the game it would be blatantly obvious it was largely even.

Are you actually insane? Every neutral fan out there watching that game could see city were a class above you in terms of possession, passing, controlling the space they wanted the game to be in and crowding you out whenever you got that ball.

Had they not tried to score the perfect goal and walk it in in the first half they could've had 2/3. There was a very big gulf in claas otherwise you don't play that defensive at home but you just couldn't get anywhere near the ball.

 

[careca07]

It's taken me almost a full day to comprehend just how bad that first half was for all kinds of reasons. Not having Pogba is absolutely no excuse for allowing a supposed title rival to embarrassingly play us off the park, at Old Trafford, from almost the first minute. The gulf was enormous - outdated, Pulis-esque tactics lumping it up to a woefully out of form giant target man - and let's not forget we only managed a goal at the end of the half due to a defensive error from them. No shots, not even off target, at home to City for the first forty minutes.

That first half was a marker of how far we've fallen behind them sadly, in tactics, style and quality - I know throwing money at a problem is a cliched fix but that is genuinely the solution here, we do not have the calibre of players to compete with them. We need to spend an enormous amount of money on top-class players for probably four positions, while moving on some of the mediocrity amassed under Moyes and LVG.

Silva and De Bruyne allow City to dictate play and keep the ball in their possession in order to pull other top teams around and find a killer pass. We need players like them; the game has moved on - much as I like him I'm so bored after seven years of seeing the play switched to Valencia to smash it from the corner of the box. Watch how Madrid, Bayern, City, Juve, Barca, PSG keep the ball. They have much, much better players than we do. We can only be put in their bracket now because of revenue and brand recognition. You can't use the complete one-off of Leicester winning the title to excuse the state of our squad. Blind, Smalling, Lingard, Jones, Young, Fellaini, Carrick, McTominay, Darmian - none of these would get in the six teams' I just mentioned.

We literally bypassed our midfield from minute one with hoof after hoof yesterday. Shocking. Ferguson would never, ever have countenanced that kind of performance at home against a major rival. I'm saying all this as someone who wanted Mourinho after Ferguson, and as a fan of his, especially after two trophies last year. But my god we are 11 points behind City and it isn't Christmas yet, and that game showed just how far behind we are in every way. We have to address the squad in Jan and next Summer otherwise this will be the norm for many years. We will win the odd cup, and finish top four, but we won't win the league and it would take a miracle to win the Champions League.

 

[ManRant]

United these days remind me so much of Liverpool in the late 80's/early 90's.

I grew up a Liverpool fan and vividly remember as that decade drew to a close the feeling of seeing my team get pulled back towards the pack where once we had dominated. It was gut-wrenching. Especially as I live in Manchester.

Thank god I then found United and a new love was born. The last few seasons have reminded me of that feeling. I do not want to go through it again. I could never support city, they are a plastic club but United these days are so hard to be around.

I'm despondent.

Not sure how to react to this.

 

[Coxy]

Are you actually insane? Every neutral fan out there watching that game could see city were a class above you in terms of possession, passing, controlling the space they wanted the game to be in and crowding you out whenever you got that ball...

Sadly this.

 

[Ventura]

Yes we lost to a team that's steam-rolling the league – what worries me more is the state of Lukaku and I'm not sure it's just a form/confidence thing (although that surely plays a part). Plenty of people warned us of these aspects of his game, and we can only live with that if he's ruthless in front of goal when given a chance.

 

[SuperiorXI]

I wonder what would have happened had we opted for more of a passing game as opposed to hoof and hope. Could it have been worse?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

United these days remind me so much of Liverpool in the late 80's/early 90's.

I grew up a Liverpool fan and vividly remember as that decade drew to a close the feeling of seeing my team get pulled back towards the pack where once we had dominated. It was gut-wrenching. Especially as I live in Manchester.

Thank god I then found United and a new love was born. The last few seasons have reminded me of that feeling. I do not want to go through it again. I could never support city, they are a plastic club but United these days are so hard to be around.

I'm despondent.

You’re a WUM more like. What a load of tosh!

 

[Cpt Negative]

Have to disagree with this, when the ball comes to you on your own and you pump it low, back into where all the defenders are, you can hardly expect much else.

Hit another player yes. Fall to the only city player in the 6 yard box.. no

 

[Jeffthered]

The difference between the two teams in terms quality, and strategy was clear. Pep, Pochettino etc have taken coaching to another phase, which seems to be more progressive. From Napoli, to PSG, and we can name many other teams, with both large and small transfer budgets.. there is a style of football that celebrates creative, probing play, with runners off the ball, connecting and continuously trying to devise ways to win.. RATHER than aim not to lose. Mourinho's better teams adopt a bully-like mentality, powerful players, with experience and pedigree, and his successful teams provide a platform for creative players to win matches. But you need the quality of player and we don't have that, not at the highest level. We can see that. It is a sad reality.

I was more disappointed that a United team can be so inept, and lacking any creative will, and in my opinion, guts. Yes, Pep's coaching dictated the pattern of the play, and this is the psychological issue that Mourinho needs to deal with, because his methods are now looking a little out-of-date. Another member of this forum made the point, beautifully, stating that unless we change some things, and I think from a coaching (rather than the coach) perspective, whilst also look at some of our personnel, then we my be in this situation for while. We need better players. Jose needs better players, and we cannot afford sentiment.

De Gea, Bailly, Pogba are top quality, and we have some very good players to augment them. But not TOP players. And we also need a game plan that can express the best in our team. Over-pragmatism has caught up with Jose, and the performances against other big teams are being scrutinized and questioned like never before. Drawing against top teams shouldn't be seen as some great achievement for United and this is what Jose has introduced to OT, and this is my greatest annoyance.

City were and are a class act though.

 

[Roger777]

Are you actually insane? Every neutral fan out there watching that game could see city were a class above you in terms of possession, passing, controlling the space they wanted the game to be in and crowding you out whenever you got that ball.

Had they not tried to score the perfect goal and walk it in in the first half they could've had 2/3. There was a very big gulf in claas otherwise you don't play that defensive at home but you just couldn't get anywhere near the ball.

Spot on. Sick of hearing these pathetic excuses from mouriniho. Lukaku is not being made a scapegoat as some have pointed out. He is a complete liability at times. His first touch for a professional footballer at the top level is quite embarrassing.

 

[glazed]

I think we would probably have drawn or won if Pogba were playing. All in all we lost a lot of points when he wasn't around.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Spot on. Sick of hearing these pathetic excuses from mouriniho. Lukaku is not being made a scapegoat as some have pointed out. He is a complete liability at times. His first touch for a professional footballer at the top level is quite embarrassing.

There’s no doubt they were the better team. However the game could’ve gone either way and that was jose’s game plan today. If Lukaku had taken his point blank chance and not assisted 2 City goals with one especially bad mistake we could’ve even won! Although a draw would’ve been fair and kept the title race realistic.

When we are missing our talismanic player, Pogba we just don’t have enough quality to beat good sides. In fact we were without our 2 best players from last season, Zlatan (who is returning from a potential career ending injury and was already quite slow pace wise) and Pogba. We don’t have the strength in depth to make up for missing that level of quality.

 

[cyril C]

Are you actually insane? Every neutral fan out there watching that game could see city were a class above you in terms of possession, passing, controlling the space they wanted the game to be in and crowding you out whenever you got that ball.

Had they not tried to score the perfect goal and walk it in in the first half they could've had 2/3. There was a very big gulf in claas otherwise you don't play that defensive at home but you just couldn't get anywhere near the ball.

How many shots on target did Arsenal have? How many shots on target did City have?

We were beaten on set pieces which is supposed to be our strength as we are taller, according to the press. Possession means nothing unless you score, as demonstrated by Leicester City. I didn't feel any threat from City at all but only at set pieces, what irony. The only time that City was controlling time and space was at 75th min, when they started their corner flag tactics to run down the clock.

 

[TheSwedeFromSweden]

Cheered me up

English people...

 

[Don _ Conte]

How many shots on target did Arsenal have? How many shots on target did City have?

We were beaten on set pieces which is supposed to be our strength as we are taller, according to the press. Possession means nothing unless you score, as demonstrated by Leicester City. I didn't feel any threat from City at all but only at set pieces, what irony. The only time that City was controlling time and space was at 75th min, when they started their corner flag tactics to run down the clock.

Arsenal were chasing the game needed a win and was at home. City had the mentality to control the game a draw would've been fine for them they were just trying to impose themselves on you and dominate which they did. You could see they were comfortable being patient and working there chances and happy to just control the game with possession and see it out.

Had that been at there ground & had they needed to win (like you did) they looked like they had an extra gear easily to go up to.

I understand it hurts to see your main rival performing vastly superior to yourselves but if you cannot see that you two were different classes apart this weekend then nothing I can say will change that.

 

[Parma Dewol]

Still feel absolutely gutted by that result. I thought for the most part the game was going to plan. Didn't for one minute expect us to have much of the ball, but if we remained disciplined at the back I thought we'd get a chance or two. All that could and should have happened, but we made two horrid mistakes and missed an absolute sitter.

For all City's possession, I still can't believe the manner of the two goals. In a contest billed as giants vs midgets, they go and score from two set pieces for God's sake. In a parallel universe, Lukaku would head the ball clear on the corner (as he should have done), boot the ball clear of danger on the free kick (as he should have done) and calmly slot in from four yards (as he should have done). He mentally seems to have gone to pot, perhaps needs a rest, or at least someone to rotate in that position? Either way, he must know he cost us this game and has to show the courage to turn it around in the next few fixtures.

Really felt we could have beaten City and opened up the title race, but if you're going to gift two goals and miss your own best opening, what chance do you have of a result?

 

[Coxy]

How many shots on target did Arsenal have? How many shots on target did City have?

We were beaten on set pieces which is supposed to be our strength as we are taller, according to the press. Possession means nothing unless you score, as demonstrated by Leicester City. I didn't feel any threat from City at all but only at set pieces, what irony. The only time that City was controlling time and space was at 75th min, when they started their corner flag tactics to run down the clock.

10 touches in city's box compared to them managing 44 in ours. We made 325 passes to their 606.

They were a class above us mate - not sure why you can't see that.

 

[Jagga7]

Are you actually insane? Every neutral fan out there watching that game could see city were a class above you in terms of possession, passing, controlling the space they wanted the game to be in and crowding you out whenever you got that ball.

Had they not tried to score the perfect goal and walk it in in the first half they could've had 2/3. There was a very big gulf in claas otherwise you don't play that defensive at home but you just couldn't get anywhere near the ball.

Yeh this is exactly what I saw. We struggled to get the ball out of our own half most of the game. Their pressing absolutely stifled us. There's clearly a big gulf in class in the two teams.

 

[TheGame]

The worst thing is that when City was put under pressure and pressed upon, they misplaced passes. Think we should have played an extra midfielder instead of Lingard or asked him to play deeper which would have given us a better chance in midfield. To allow City that much possession, space and to create the chances with ease which they did is scandalous. They outpassed us and we should be making more of an effort to keep the ball not just hoofing it upfield and hoping for lucky knock ons.

 

[Kola_Nut]

Too many people getting hysterical over this result. We were missing our first choice CB's. I know we slate fellaini on here but he was vital in this game & a big miss. Pogba, enough said. In hindsight we should have played Ibra from the start. We have gone into the game missing 4 players who would/should have started.

City on the other hand were only missing Mendy. Stones was also out but there's nothing between him & Ottamendi. The latter came up with the winner also.

You can't go into these kind of games with this many players out. They were also extremely lucky on the day with 2 scruffy goals.

We did very well in the end to restrict them & they were rarely threatening.

You have their CB's as Mangala & Stones/Ottamendi, lose either KDB/Silva, replace Fernandinho with Gundogan. Would anyone see anything other than City being thrashed.

 

[André Dominguez]

1. We let them play to their will, unchallenged and without showing an ounce of fight except maybe for 10-15 minutes.

2. The difference in quality of between the two sides is quite significant. This difference is not just with regards to players but the cohesion between them, the instructions and tactics that's asked of them to perform and how they actually execute it. Quite simply put, it was not only that our game yesterday was defensive and cowardly, but it was terribly executed as well. If you are going to bore the shit out of us, at least do it correctly.

3.Jose and Pep started around the same time at their respective jobs, albeit Pep with a better foundation and an easier rebuilding job. Their football till then was to an extent keeping in line with how Pep likes it. It was focused on quick attacking football by skillful players. Pep just added his possession football and other stuff to it. Jose took over from a rigid possession based system that we were quite drilled in, completely demolished it and incorported his way of playing. It's a mixture of reactive and proactive tactics. Against small teams you are the initiator and aggressor, but against teams that are better or quite capable of playing football, we become a reactive side. We let them play their game, keep our shape, defend in numbers and play on the counters.

It's a known thing that if you do the same stuff over and over again, practice it and perfect it, you become an expert in it. That is Manchester City of today. For the past one and a half seasons, they've played this way. Whether it is against low league side in a league cup game or versus the likes of Monaco or Napoli in the CL. They've had off days, they've looked as blunt as we did under LVG sometimes, they've lost to Barca in CL because they weren't pragmatic enough, but still they have stuck through it and now they have perfected a team that's rumning away with it. Compare that to our approach where every previous result resulted in chopping and changing, each different team has us playing a different way each day and the general focus on getting it defensively right than going for it from an attacking pov.

4. Even if we fix our squad troubles in winter or even next summer, what chances are we get all of them performing to the required level from the start ? Won't they have a settling in period ? When is this cycle of recruiting-settling in-clearing out ever going to end ?

I want Mourinho to succed as much as every loyal fan out there, but it's days like these that makes you wonder whether all of it is going to plan as intended.

A great post here. It sums up almost everything I feel about at the moment. Just to add a note:

Arrigo Sacchi once sai that the best tactic to win matces and titles is to have top quality players. Without them, no manager in the world can win any title.

Our squad quality is still steps far away from top quality.

 

[Full bodied red]

Unless we learn from what they are doing over there. It's not as if we don't have the resources to buy big. It's not as if we can't get a manager ourselves who believes in playing that way as well. It would take some humility to start copying their blueprint but this is the way football is going now.

Over the decades football is slowly becoming less about physical contact and long balls and more about skill and passing. Pitches have improved , ball are lighter , and the rules are changing to reward attacking play.

The Peps of the world are the future. Jose IS a dinosaur and we have to accept it and move on. Otherwise City will become more like United than we are.

And some Arab or Russian with a couple of billion to spend on his plaything....

 

[Bastian]

Quite a few (Macari for instance) defending Rom saying a striker shouldn't be there in the first place. I'd think every player has an experience of clearing the ball and of course we use tall players defending set pieces, we did it with Zlatan all last season. And our outlets need to have pace and, more importantly, dribbling ability. Hence Martial was left up front during set pieces.