The games are winnable, if Ole sets them up to do that.
PL D FA Premier League
Manchester United 0:0 Manchester City
Post-match discussion
Sat, 12 December 2020
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I thought we set up really well, but we weren't clinical enough. If Bruno has a better game today we win.
I had to watch the game on delay, while my daughter smashed the absolute granny out of her new xylophone and I won't lie, guys, that was not a well spent 90 mins.
2 points from
Palace (h)
Spurs (h)
Arsneal (h)
Chelsea (h)
City (h)
Would we have taken that??
Well said... i agree... but looking at the majority of match predictions on here that went for a City win then you'd of thought there'd be a bit more positivity on here.. but this is typical of the RedCafe negativity everytime we fail to win a game... By he way i predicted United 2-1 City
I remember us having 3 chances, all in the first half. Maguire header from a corner, Lindelof's flick on to the far post during a corner, where McTominay lead with the wrong foot and missed the ball, and the best chance when Pogba only had to square to Greenwood who would have been 99% likely to score.
The build up, when we choose never to go through the middle, is slow and AWB is so unreliable that Bruno was dropping deep time and again.
At least it's a clean sheet we haven't had in a while.
The build up, when we choose never to go through the middle, is slow and AWB is so unreliable that Bruno was dropping deep time and again.
At least it's a clean sheet we haven't had in a while.
Far more a case of Citeh nullifying our threats than the other way round so Ole must be buzzing about the level of respect Pep showed him.
Positives:
Maguire and Lindelof passed it well between themselves. We didn't go 1-0 down again.
Negatives:
Lack of changes - absolutely love Bruno but he was absolutely gassed by 70 minutes. Martial for Rashford.
Hearing all the talk about winnable games coming up is a little tedious though.
This was a winnable game and we did well to navigate ourselves to 70/75 minutes in a position to then launch a bid to do just that.
5 unbeaten in the League to end on a positive.
Positives:
Maguire and Lindelof passed it well between themselves. We didn't go 1-0 down again.
Negatives:
Lack of changes - absolutely love Bruno but he was absolutely gassed by 70 minutes. Martial for Rashford.
Hearing all the talk about winnable games coming up is a little tedious though.
This was a winnable game and we did well to navigate ourselves to 70/75 minutes in a position to then launch a bid to do just that.
5 unbeaten in the League to end on a positive.
A draw against City is a decent result. It's just annoying that City were there for the taking, and we were happy to play out the draw.
Even in the last couple of minutes there was a moment when De Gea collected the ball and went down to the ground with it for a bit, wasting time like it was the closing stages of a match we were winning 2-0 in.
There was simply no urgency and for me that is totally unacceptable.
Concerning stat:
That is now 3 of our top 6 rivals that we have failed to score against at home this season (the other 2 were the Arsenal and Chelsea matches).
Also, to only have 2 shots on target at home to one of your biggest rivals is really poor.
Positive note:
I thought Luke Shaw played really well tonight. He defending was top notch, and his corner taking was really good - which was a welcome change from the amount of poor corners we've had lately that always get cleared by the first man.
Even in the last couple of minutes there was a moment when De Gea collected the ball and went down to the ground with it for a bit, wasting time like it was the closing stages of a match we were winning 2-0 in.
There was simply no urgency and for me that is totally unacceptable.
Concerning stat:
That is now 3 of our top 6 rivals that we have failed to score against at home this season (the other 2 were the Arsenal and Chelsea matches).
Also, to only have 2 shots on target at home to one of your biggest rivals is really poor.
Positive note:
I thought Luke Shaw played really well tonight. He defending was top notch, and his corner taking was really good - which was a welcome change from the amount of poor corners we've had lately that always get cleared by the first man.
The lack of ambition was disappointing, I know it is a big game but we did not commit enough players forward and a lot of our passes were linear, square and safe. Trying to play out from the back on the deck from goal kicks was torture, thought a goal would be conceded from them any time. The only reason we did not lose the match imo is we came out more aggressive in the 2nd half, same lack of committing to attack but more aggressive and a bit quicker to do everything, 0-0 not the worst result for now but I would rather we set out with total attacking intentions and lose matches here and there because of it that should be our identity getting back ingrained in this group, especially at home. Having watched the 1st half was completely expecting to lose, not because city were good but because we had so few outlets and were not technically good enough to play creatively through the press which imo is a product of not having the correct intentions as there so often was no out ball for those in possession when they looked forward.
It really isn’t a problem.
If we don’t improve on last season then these results are part of the problem. But to look at these four in isolation is a waste of time.
Put me to sleep. Glad it wasn't permanent
Go and watch first half then to see how truly awful City was for that 45 minutes. Worst I've seen them in years.
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Well said... i agree... but looking at the majority of match predictions on here that went for a City win then you'd of thought there'd be a bit more positivity on here.. but this is typical of the RedCafe negativity everytime we fail to win a game... By he way i predicted United 2-1 City
Positivity?
We are 7th placer and looking like we are going nowhere.
We play well, only when Ole needs the win to avoid being sacked.
And don't even get me started on the "attacking football". Ole is trying to copy Jose Mourinho with the bus parking, but he isn't good at it.
EDIT: I just noticed.
Spurs - ex MUFC manager deemed not to be good enough for us. He sits at the top.
WHU - ex MUFC manager deemed abysmal (which he was) sits above us in the table.
Both teams above us have been assembled with less money, lower wages, etc.
Anybody who claims that Ole is doing an acceptable job is either rival fan or doesn't understand that the aim of the game is to win matches, points and trophies.
Apparently we play attacking football with a GD of 2, while Jose is ultra defensive with a GD of 14.
Why are people accepting such mediority?
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It was lacklustre at times from both sides, strange to watch, couldn't see which side was going to get more players forward. City I thought went for draw and hoping for a win.
Utd I think were weary of a negative result after midweek. Bar from a whisker of offside we could have won it with a pen.
But VAR is here and correct offside. A good point off a very good side , just why couldn't we have had that on Tuesday. 3 Pts next game will do nice .
Utd I think were weary of a negative result after midweek. Bar from a whisker of offside we could have won it with a pen.
But VAR is here and correct offside. A good point off a very good side , just why couldn't we have had that on Tuesday. 3 Pts next game will do nice .
I was more disappointed with the two misses from the near post corners. If we start to do near post corners we are going to score a few eventually. Scott should have scored and so should have Lindelof and Maguire.
That was very Van Gaal from Ole.
Ffs. The league will start taking shape in March. Save your self from worrying until then.
Was it? More Mourinho surely? Van Gaal would have 60% of the ball but with no chances made, and besides LVG was brilliant in these kinds of games.
Positivity?
We are 7th placer and looking like we are going nowhere.
We play well, only when Ole needs the win to avoid being sacked.
And don't even get me started on the "attacking football". Ole is trying to copy Jose Mourinho with the bus parking, but he isn't good at it.
EDIT: I just noticed.
Spurs - ex MUFC manager deemed not to be good enough for us. He sits at the top.
WHU - ex MUFC manager deemed abysmal (which he was) sits above us in the table.
Both teams above us have been assembled with less money, lower wages, etc.
Anybody who claims that Ole is doing an acceptable job is either rival fan or doesn't understand that the aim of the game is to win matches, points and trophies.
Apparently we play attacking football with a GD of 2, while Jose is ultra defensive with a GD of 14.
Why are people accepting such mediority?
I get what you’re saying but I do think your argument seems stretched considering we are only 11 games in and there is no sustainable indication (yet) that either Spurs (the great bottlers) or West Ham are going to finish in those positions. Ole needs to go eventually but not because of what the league table says (at the moment).
We have a bang average manager with bang average players. That’s the reality.
Obviously not. 5 points from 6 home games is a poor return. If we had won just one more of these we’d be firmly in the mix at the top at this stage and the narrative would be very different.
We absolutely have to turn the home form around and bearing in mind that we have already got Spurs, Chelsea, City and Arsenal out the way there can’t be many excuses for not doing so.
I don't really want to defend Ole, I really think this is his peak level right now where we are: EL and 5-6th place in the league. He's unable to take us further.
But if you want to evaluate José's and Moyes' current performance then you should take a wider period in time. For instance in the first two years with José we had a really good run. EL trophy, 2nd place in the league (now we can value what an achievement it was). He's just spending the first complete season with Spurs and it is not even halftime yet. Sooner or later he probably will flip.
As for Moyes right now they're in a good position but a few months earlier relegation was really close to WHU. And as we're deeper into the season they'll probably slip down the table.
Bad game, but this isn't just City/United though, is it. It's Spurs vs. Chelsea last week, City vs. Liverpool the week before. Big teams just not putting their all into big games this season. Players are clearly being asked to do more than they're capable of because of the pandemic and it's showing. Champions League is definitely playing a part in how teams are performing domestically. Think all the managers know they've got thin squads and busy schedules. Christmas is gonna be even worse and you can tell it's on their minds. I wasn't charitable initially but it's fair enough. Makes for shite games but it's probably saving us from dozens of injuries. The only player who broke into a sprint during today's game was Luke Shaw and look what happened there. Same happened with Trent last month. This is just boring squad management happening in real time. I don't have any statistical evidence to back this up, but I would love to look at the amount of goals scored by "the big 6" since Villa 7-2 Liverpool, City 2-5 Leicester, United 1-6 Spurs. Get the feeling that the top managers got a bit spooked and have gone conservative. Doesn't help that Gary Neville's analysis of the game was just "They're City so they should be doing more goals". He's got to understand better than most pundits that fitness levels and system preservation are taking priority over fighting for results for managers this season.
By
If the Everton result stays as it is, we've played the team who were 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th... and West Brom.
It doesn't matter that they're not Spurs or Liverpool or Chelski. They're teams in form - the table doesn't lie.
The next 4 are 4th, 12th, 14th, 20th.
We get 10 or 12 from them and we're in a good place.
Speed the transitions up so the performance gets closer to the points... great.
If the Everton result stays as it is, we've played the team who were 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th... and West Brom.
It doesn't matter that they're not Spurs or Liverpool or Chelski. They're teams in form - the table doesn't lie.
The next 4 are 4th, 12th, 14th, 20th.
We get 10 or 12 from them and we're in a good place.
Speed the transitions up so the performance gets closer to the points... great.
Getting up at 4.30 in the morning and watching this really does test my ability to stay awake.
LVG and Jose must have been consultants to Ole for his tactics on this one.
LVG and Jose must have been consultants to Ole for his tactics on this one.
No, we're just looking at it objectively instead of throwing our toys out of the pram and having a full melt down every time we don't win a game.
I almost dozed off in the second half. Felt like a clunky friendly. Some derby that was.
City play a repugnan, boring style of football.
Regardless of what happens tomorrow United just 2 points off the top 4 with a game in game. Just a reminder when Ole took on the job in December 2018 United was 11 points off 4th.
The problem is that we have to go to those 4 teams and play Liverpool twice too.
So it's not like we're going to get tonne loads of points there.
Oh well...the league takes shape in March someone just told me.
It's not a horrible result but just another inclination that we probably won't get much out of this season.
You are right. The managers obviously try to save as much energy as possible. They even mentioned it on Sky, but Keane just shrugged it off and went back with old "hunger, have to do more etc"
Tried to find some stats...
Now, teams will obviously try to hit an extra gear in the second part of the season is my first thought. Second one, this is another reason why Mourinho might be so dangerous this season considering his style of play and lack of CL football.
Not bad. Could have nicked it.
A decent point if we follow up with 2 wins now.
A decent point if we follow up with 2 wins now.
I thought we played really well in the first half. I was impressed with our ball retention, the way we played around City's press, and I thought Maguire/the whole back 4 and Fred and Pogba looked really on it. A shame, then, that after our first half showing we seemed content to play out the string when City seemed there for the taking. Second half was a non-event.
I used to wake up at those times and sometimes even stay up until then. But a few years ago I realised it wasn’t worth destroying my sleeping pattern watching these games.
I thought today's performance was really poor. We need to be challenging for the top trophies. People really are fooling themselves if they honestly believe that we'll get anywhere near to winning major titles under this manager and coaching set up.
It's frustrating to see clubs like City and Liverpool consistently dominate the ball against us when we're meant to be bigger club and when we spend equal amounts or more on transfers and wages.
It's frustrating to see clubs like City and Liverpool consistently dominate the ball against us when we're meant to be bigger club and when we spend equal amounts or more on transfers and wages.
Yeah I’m pissed off cause I made this point in another thread (original match day thread) and forgot to leave that point out here. Fred makes us tick, and he should have been pulled off during that PSG game and he would haven’t got a second yellow.
Game in hand on who? We still have that match to play.
If that performance was against the City of two years ago it would have been a different score. We could barely get the ball 20 yards away from goal at times.
I’ve just seen those quotes about it being our best performance in a derby under Ole. I know what he’s trying to say about possession, but it wasn’t under control, not in the slightest.
I’ve just seen those quotes about it being our best performance in a derby under Ole. I know what he’s trying to say about possession, but it wasn’t under control, not in the slightest.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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24%
Luke Shaw
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11%
Fred
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9%
Victor Lindelof
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9%
Paul Pogba
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8%
Scott McTominay
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5%
Bruno Fernandes
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2%
David de Gea
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1%
Aaron Wan-Bissaka
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1%
Marcus Rashford
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 271 ratings.
Score Predictions
99,145,32
- Man Utd win
- Man City win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 19% Man Utd 2:1 Man City
- 15% Man Utd 1:3 Man City
- 9% Man Utd 1:2 Man City
- 7% Man Utd 1:1 Man City
- 7% Man Utd 0:2 Man City
- 7% Man Utd 0:3 Man City
- 5% Man Utd 3:2 Man City
- 5% Man Utd 0:5 Man City
- 5% Man Utd 2:0 Man City
- 3% Man Utd 2:2 Man City
- 3% Man Utd 1:4 Man City
- 3% Man Utd 3:1 Man City
- 3% Man Utd 0:4 Man City
- 3% Man Utd 1:0 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 2:3 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 0:0 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 4:1 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 2:5 Man City
- 1% Man Utd 1:5 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 4:3 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 2:4 Man City
- 0% Man Utd 3:0 Man City
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Man City
- Possession
- 46% 54%
- Shots
- 11 9
- Shots on Target
- 2 2
- Corners
- 4 3
- Fouls
- 13 6
Referee
Chris Kavanagh
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Anthony Martial
