1 half against the shitte8t team in the EPL doesnt swing it for me.
PL W FA Premier League
Manchester United 3:2 Newcastle United
Post-match discussion
Sat, 06 October 2018
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Wow. That is why I love this club. Our players aren't shit. But we need to stop playing favorites.
(LW) Martial, my personal opinion is that I have not seen a player in our squad be as much of a threat to the opposition playing on the left wing as Martial. That spot should be his from the start.
(RW) Sanchez, I felt the criticism of his game playing on our right wing in mid week ott. I thought he was decent there then, and should be allowed to build on it. He was can be a threat on that side.
(DM) Fellaini, deployed between our defense and midfield is effective. The boy works hard and gets stuck in. Easy out for our center backs.
(DM) Pogba, can play well from the back. Should be instructed to play with Fellaini as his foil, with the primary objective to help the latter get the ball into the opposition half. He can go forward but has to make sure Fellaini is covering the centre-backs.
(CB) Smalling, stays as a centre back, because he is good at defending even if his passing is average.
(ST) Lukaku, also stays upfront because of his industry. He shouldn't hesitate to work the channels more to make space for himself, because he can overpower the opposition marker(s), this should also keep us from systematic lumping the ball to his head, but rather in his run.
(LB) Shaw, also stays because he is gaining consistency. Starting to provide a threat going forward and also more aware positionally as he less and less caught out running backwards. We have to let him foster an understanding with Martial (LW) and Fellaini (DM).
That is seven of the ten outfield positions covered. That leaves us with 3 positions I'd use to preserve balance and either tilt the team offensively or defensively: (RB) - (CM) - (CB)
(RB) From what I've seen it is Dalot's spot. Using outdated wingers in that position should stop. If TFM can go start for another premier league team he may as well be here and second choice for Dalot. Whilst both TFM and DD are young, they put in a shift and will Sanchez in front of them who is industrious and experienced. Also out of our squad they are the only players coached to be defenders from the go. They are less likely to show a runner on to a way to get into the box in terms of positioning (Whilst Bailly is the one that got hooked, Young was criminal on both goals too imo, because he is not a natural defender). (I'd bring TFM back, Darmian is the one that should be loaned out).
(CM) This would be the tilt position. I have kept from commenting on Matic because he has had good games for us, but too often have I found him unaware of his surroundings be it facing our goal or the opposition. He is a good player though. But he is out because we don't more than two defensive mids. His direct competition is Fellaini.
I am hesitating between Fred (who has been decent but still lacking some bite because he is new to the league), Herrera and Pereira.
Fred or Herrera should start, because they can provide the legs to compensate for Martial's lack of effectiveness when pressing off the ball and to allow Lukaku some freedom to stay ahead and pressure the opposition CBs and not run to wherever the ball is being played. Push come to shove, today I'd pick Fred. I don't feel we have seen his full potential and he seems more balanced. Herrera can start when we need to do a job in man marking an oppo player.
(CB) This is the hard one for me. I think Bailly is the most naturally gifted footballer of our centerbacks. But his mind is not there. He has lost his composure. I don't see it returning by miracle, he needs to be eased back in when and if things are going smooth.
Rojo is injured, a bit haphazard but a "b*tch" to the opposition players. Not bad on the ball. I don't know why I'm biased regarding him relatively to the comments on the CAF about him. But he is injured so not in the equation now.
That leaves Jones and Lindelof. Jones is too frail and recently too caught out of position and poor on one-v-ones. (odd though because I remember him being atleast decent one v one).
Given I said I want players primarily coached in defending to play as defenders, I have to go with Lindelof. We could do an LvG and play Smalling and Matic. But no, I'm more than willing to give Lindelof a chance to build a rapport with Smalling.
So my starting 11 tomorrow would be : (from right to left for the outfield players)
De Gea - Dalot, Smalling, Lindelof, Shaw - Fred, Fellaini, Pogba - Sanchez, Martial - Lukaku.
The bench :
Rojo/Bailly for CB (The player in form between them).
Herrera for CM or to add to the press defensively if Fred is off the boil.
Pereira & Mata for either Sanchez on the RW or to replace Fred as an AM if we go for an offensive tilt. (Mata is auto on the bench, I'd pick the player in form between Lingard and Pereira for the same role)
Rashford for Lukaku or Martial backup as LW or ST
Grant for the GK (Always felt Romero is a lucky gk)
Valencia for RB cover
Just realised this is too long for anyone to read. But it is what I think after the Newcastle come-back. Wrote it as it came to mind without proof-reading (for potential comic-relief). I don't expect this team to click from the go but it is what I'd persist with to create balance and with the long-term view of building partnerships and complementarity on the pitch.
Orders pre-match : Keep Calm on the Hunt and then ... Attack, Attack, Attack-Attack-Attack!
(LW) Martial, my personal opinion is that I have not seen a player in our squad be as much of a threat to the opposition playing on the left wing as Martial. That spot should be his from the start.
(RW) Sanchez, I felt the criticism of his game playing on our right wing in mid week ott. I thought he was decent there then, and should be allowed to build on it. He was can be a threat on that side.
(DM) Fellaini, deployed between our defense and midfield is effective. The boy works hard and gets stuck in. Easy out for our center backs.
(DM) Pogba, can play well from the back. Should be instructed to play with Fellaini as his foil, with the primary objective to help the latter get the ball into the opposition half. He can go forward but has to make sure Fellaini is covering the centre-backs.
(CB) Smalling, stays as a centre back, because he is good at defending even if his passing is average.
(ST) Lukaku, also stays upfront because of his industry. He shouldn't hesitate to work the channels more to make space for himself, because he can overpower the opposition marker(s), this should also keep us from systematic lumping the ball to his head, but rather in his run.
(LB) Shaw, also stays because he is gaining consistency. Starting to provide a threat going forward and also more aware positionally as he less and less caught out running backwards. We have to let him foster an understanding with Martial (LW) and Fellaini (DM).
That is seven of the ten outfield positions covered. That leaves us with 3 positions I'd use to preserve balance and either tilt the team offensively or defensively: (RB) - (CM) - (CB)
(RB) From what I've seen it is Dalot's spot. Using outdated wingers in that position should stop. If TFM can go start for another premier league team he may as well be here and second choice for Dalot. Whilst both TFM and DD are young, they put in a shift and will Sanchez in front of them who is industrious and experienced. Also out of our squad they are the only players coached to be defenders from the go. They are less likely to show a runner on to a way to get into the box in terms of positioning (Whilst Bailly is the one that got hooked, Young was criminal on both goals too imo, because he is not a natural defender). (I'd bring TFM back, Darmian is the one that should be loaned out).
(CM) This would be the tilt position. I have kept from commenting on Matic because he has had good games for us, but too often have I found him unaware of his surroundings be it facing our goal or the opposition. He is a good player though. But he is out because we don't more than two defensive mids. His direct competition is Fellaini.
I am hesitating between Fred (who has been decent but still lacking some bite because he is new to the league), Herrera and Pereira.
Fred or Herrera should start, because they can provide the legs to compensate for Martial's lack of effectiveness when pressing off the ball and to allow Lukaku some freedom to stay ahead and pressure the opposition CBs and not run to wherever the ball is being played. Push come to shove, today I'd pick Fred. I don't feel we have seen his full potential and he seems more balanced. Herrera can start when we need to do a job in man marking an oppo player.
(CB) This is the hard one for me. I think Bailly is the most naturally gifted footballer of our centerbacks. But his mind is not there. He has lost his composure. I don't see it returning by miracle, he needs to be eased back in when and if things are going smooth.
Rojo is injured, a bit haphazard but a "b*tch" to the opposition players. Not bad on the ball. I don't know why I'm biased regarding him relatively to the comments on the CAF about him. But he is injured so not in the equation now.
That leaves Jones and Lindelof. Jones is too frail and recently too caught out of position and poor on one-v-ones. (odd though because I remember him being atleast decent one v one).
Given I said I want players primarily coached in defending to play as defenders, I have to go with Lindelof. We could do an LvG and play Smalling and Matic. But no, I'm more than willing to give Lindelof a chance to build a rapport with Smalling.
So my starting 11 tomorrow would be : (from right to left for the outfield players)
De Gea - Dalot, Smalling, Lindelof, Shaw - Fred, Fellaini, Pogba - Sanchez, Martial - Lukaku.
The bench :
Rojo/Bailly for CB (The player in form between them).
Herrera for CM or to add to the press defensively if Fred is off the boil.
Pereira & Mata for either Sanchez on the RW or to replace Fred as an AM if we go for an offensive tilt. (Mata is auto on the bench, I'd pick the player in form between Lingard and Pereira for the same role)
Rashford for Lukaku or Martial backup as LW or ST
Grant for the GK (Always felt Romero is a lucky gk)
Valencia for RB cover
Just realised this is too long for anyone to read. But it is what I think after the Newcastle come-back. Wrote it as it came to mind without proof-reading (for potential comic-relief). I don't expect this team to click from the go but it is what I'd persist with to create balance and with the long-term view of building partnerships and complementarity on the pitch.
Orders pre-match : Keep Calm on the Hunt and then ... Attack, Attack, Attack-Attack-Attack!
Happy for the win, but very unhappy with the situation we are in.
The international break will come and these players will play with more freedom and confidence with their national teams than for United because the Mourinho cloud is not perpetually overhead.
I like Mourinho, but he's been left behind and seems incapable of motivating the players until it seems they have nothing to lose.
Always on the back foot is not the United way
The international break will come and these players will play with more freedom and confidence with their national teams than for United because the Mourinho cloud is not perpetually overhead.
I like Mourinho, but he's been left behind and seems incapable of motivating the players until it seems they have nothing to lose.
Always on the back foot is not the United way
Nice to feel like Manchester United again for 20 minutes but the fact is we scratched and clawed for a win at home against a very poor side. The same poor side that should’ve had a pen at 2-0 and missed other opportunities to make it 3-0. A loss would’ve been the final nail in Jose’s coffin but this just delays the inevitable.
I hope the board are using Jose’s twilight time to find a suitable replacement for when he eventually goes. The way we’re playing it’s only a matter of time until we get an absolute pasting, could be Chelsea, probably one of the Juve games. Hopefully, and hope is the suitable word, this is some sort of catalyst and brings the dressing room together and we can get on some sort of run.
I hope the board are using Jose’s twilight time to find a suitable replacement for when he eventually goes. The way we’re playing it’s only a matter of time until we get an absolute pasting, could be Chelsea, probably one of the Juve games. Hopefully, and hope is the suitable word, this is some sort of catalyst and brings the dressing room together and we can get on some sort of run.
I heard him say that too,that’s why I assumed that Smalling was at fault.But After closely looking at the replays I can say that Smalling wasn’t culpable for either of the 2 goals.He made some shocking mistakes,but he wasn’t culpable for the goals...
The Jose hate in this thread is strong.
People demand Jose be sacked because we don't entertain and that even when we win it's boring. Well, yesterday's match was one of the most exciting/entertaining matches I've seen in a good few months. I was at the edge of my seat knowing how badly we needed those 3 points. Knowing that the manager could be sacked and the reset button could be hit.
If the Jose haters are moaning about last nights match, then either you don't know what entertaining football is or you simply don't like football and just come here to moan.
The match and week we've just had is the stuff movies are written about - lots of negative drama off the pitch, in the build up to the match, then on the pitch, against all odds, we win.
In fact, if you put that all in a movie script, some viewers may think that its too unrealistic.
My only gripe is that we need to do this consistently and Jose and the boys need to show fight against Chelsea, next.
I am hoping that the team can turn their bad form around and get top 4. If Jose leaves in the Summer, then so be it, but he must get us top 4, before he leaves, so that the next manager is in the CL competition.
Unlike some other posters (and this may be due to my older (43 yr old) age), I do not believe that a new manager will solve our problems. The problems stem from the top and Jose leaving won't change that.
People demand Jose be sacked because we don't entertain and that even when we win it's boring. Well, yesterday's match was one of the most exciting/entertaining matches I've seen in a good few months. I was at the edge of my seat knowing how badly we needed those 3 points. Knowing that the manager could be sacked and the reset button could be hit.
If the Jose haters are moaning about last nights match, then either you don't know what entertaining football is or you simply don't like football and just come here to moan.
The match and week we've just had is the stuff movies are written about - lots of negative drama off the pitch, in the build up to the match, then on the pitch, against all odds, we win.
In fact, if you put that all in a movie script, some viewers may think that its too unrealistic.
My only gripe is that we need to do this consistently and Jose and the boys need to show fight against Chelsea, next.
I am hoping that the team can turn their bad form around and get top 4. If Jose leaves in the Summer, then so be it, but he must get us top 4, before he leaves, so that the next manager is in the CL competition.
Unlike some other posters (and this may be due to my older (43 yr old) age), I do not believe that a new manager will solve our problems. The problems stem from the top and Jose leaving won't change that.
What system did we end up with at the end?
Winning from being down 0-2 is fantastic, but we should never have been in a desperate situation against a woeful side, 19th in the table, like Newcastle. It's clear as day that we started playing like Manchester United again once we threw the original tactics out the window.
There wasn't one. The players looked like they did what they wanted.
Maybe they should just scrap what Jose tells them then and do what they want.
From looking at it, it looked like
Martial Sanchez Lukaku
Shaw Mata Fellaini Young
Pogba
Matic Smalling
De Gea
The old throw the kitchen sink at them system. It was a little fergie-esque.
Anyone noticed that pogba didn't celebrate at any of the goals.?
Did you notice that he celebrated after the game and gave his shirt to a fan?
I think Pogba was just trying to remain focused.
We'll try going 2 down to Chelsea/City/Liverpool and most teams above us and see where we get. Yes, it was exciting coming back but it was Jose tactics that dropped us in it.
I tend to agree that I don't think a new manager would make much difference now. It might have some impact at first but not the whole season. I would rather they target who they want, not go for who is available. Actually look for who fits the club best regarding playing style and plan ahead.
DoF to get transfers in place. Sound out in work managers not just go for Zidane/Conte because they are not in work. We are really lazy at times.
I feel this international break will have come just at the wrong time. After yesterday (2nd half ) the lads must be on a high. Shame we won't see if it's the catalyst for a few weeks now.
The last words of this are 100% “filhos de puta” (“sons of bitches”). Looks like he’s saying “For you, sons of bitches” in portuguese. Fine coming?
He was on the players, looking to keep them organized. Very apparent after the Sanchez goal when he almost immediately started communicating with Smalling and Matic, about shape I assume.
Played rather like a captain yesterday.
Thought that Fellaini was playing up front for a time with Lukaku moved to the RW, Sanchez off Fellaini. It was all rather chaotic.
Just wanted to start off by saying Hello to everyone as I am new to the forum.
As far as the game, I agree with the post above.
The first 70 minutes of the match was a bit rough. Looked like a sub-par team on all phases of the game. I know a lot of credit was given to Pogba and Martial this game, but while they were in the first 70 minutes, team looked broken. The attacking 3 of Lukaku, Martial, and Rashford really looked ineffective and disfunctional. No opportunities.
I know I am going to get some flack for saying this, but I feel the last 20 minutes were amazing, and coincidentally, that is when Sanchez was subbed in. The feel and character of the attacking side improved in my opinion the second he was in. Granted, many may not agree or point to his sub-par performance so far this year, but in my opinion, the combination of Martial, Lukaku, and Rashford is not the answer as the first 70 minutes alluded to that. I just feel there were no opportunities created and Lukaku, and strong of a finisher as he may be, needs someone else to create those for him as he had trouble creating those on his own.
When Sanchez was on the pitch, it opened up the offense and made for dangerous opportunities. I saw that he started on the right side, and that allowed Martial more space initially take his man on. Granted at the end, it looked as if Sanchez was playing rover as I saw him on the left side as well, but the point being is that the attacking game was just better with him in there as opposed to what we had in the first half. Even as a facilitator. I think that allows other players not have to carry such a big burden and for them to focus on applying their strengths. Let Martial finish, let Lukaku finish, Pogba can show his flash of brilliance on the offensive side without having to BE the offensive answer.
Have to admit the Last 20 minutes of Man Utd, feels that that team and their approach can compete with the rest of the Premier League. The first 70, not so much.
Nope didn't see that turned the tv off after the final vistle. Maybe he was just too tired to celebrate the goals.
Great thanks didn't see that. Glad to hear he is taking a more responsible role
Your wrong,because we need to put things right first, then rest then go on good, healthy winning streak to catch up. This rest days are coming just in time, only to put head up and start to think positive, then go on winning.
I'm not saying we will do 5 straight wins, though.
I'm not saying we will do 5 straight wins, though.
Did anyone see statistics on distance covered after the full game? Cause the norwegian lelecaster showed them at half time, and we did like 50k combined, whilst Newcastle did 55k something. Wondering if that was tuned around at full time.
Making the effort makes the difference!
Making the effort makes the difference!
Good job to the players for what we saw in the second half which was some insane determination and some "attack attack attack."
Now that the dust has cleared, looking more broadly over what has occurred i think we still need to get a new manager. Mourinho is a great manager but not great for us. The dressing room problem will come back as soon as the players do from the international break. But give it a few days on Mourinho.
Now that the dust has cleared, looking more broadly over what has occurred i think we still need to get a new manager. Mourinho is a great manager but not great for us. The dressing room problem will come back as soon as the players do from the international break. But give it a few days on Mourinho.
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Welcome to the forum, buddy.
I agree with a lot of that.
I think one of the biggest differences in that second half was that Martial looked up for it. He was playing without fear, and both the crowd and team responded.
Players were also getting into the box, and as a team we were taking more risks and leaving ourselves vulnerable at the back. It had to be done considering the scoreline.
With Sanchez, I feel like every time he plays he tries to make things happen, and he works hard, but his actual final ball and form has been poor. There's been less players in attacking positions to pick out, so he tries a difficult ball and it doesn't come off. I'm not defending him though - he still should be done better.
Against Newcastle in that last 30 minutes, Martial and Mata were doing well, and there were plenty of options in the final third, so there wasn't as much pressure on Sanchez and it made his job a lot easier.
If we're that open against Chelsea, it could be a bloodbath, but it'll be interesting to see how attacking our line up is and how often the team busts a gut to get into the opposition's box.
That's right. Against Chelsea we'll need some actual tactics for most of the match. So although it was thrilling to watch, it's not sustainable to play like this.
I like your thinking and strongly agree about getting TFM back but apart from that I would like to see us buy someone like Maguire to really strengthen the defence in January. And then in Summer get a world class player or two in the positions most need which may well be a right winger and someone to cover/ replace Magic.
I don't know how mourinho can be blamed for the 2 goals that were conceded so early in the game. It was shambolic defending which has nothing to do with mourinho's tactics. The players should be accountable for that. So I don't get the people who are moaning about how Newcastle is a sh*t team and therefore the game should have been a walk in the park and because of mourinho we found ourselves in a desperate situation. I don't buy this at all.
We should have been back in the game in the first half itself if Rashford had scored that chance and we probably would have gone on to win the game comfortably. Rashford and Matic also had clear cut chances to score in the 2nd half but they did not. In the end, what a comeback. Absolutely loved it.
I am one of those starting to lose faith in mourinho but I will back him as long as he is here. There is already enough vitriol and toxicity towards the club and mourinho from the opposition fans,pundits and media so we don't need to pile it on even further. We can bash him when he loses but the man deserves some credit after such wins.
We should have been back in the game in the first half itself if Rashford had scored that chance and we probably would have gone on to win the game comfortably. Rashford and Matic also had clear cut chances to score in the 2nd half but they did not. In the end, what a comeback. Absolutely loved it.
I am one of those starting to lose faith in mourinho but I will back him as long as he is here. There is already enough vitriol and toxicity towards the club and mourinho from the opposition fans,pundits and media so we don't need to pile it on even further. We can bash him when he loses but the man deserves some credit after such wins.
The players looked scared out there in the first half. Like they had the weight of the world on their shoulders.
It's clear to see with the form we're in the toxicity around the club through media and fans have gotten to some
All over the fecking shop in the 2nd half
Once they cleared their heads and whatever Mourinho said at halftime seemed to worked though.
The effort and most importantly desire won us that match in the end. Need to see more of that
I gotta say it felt pretty good to win, especially like that. But in the end it was only Newcastle. We should expect a loss at Chealsea.
The key for me was when Pogba was dropped further back. With Mata on the pitch Pogba had someone to pass to, who moved; someone to play off. Little triangles were played; pass and move. It kick started us. The three goals were excellent team goals. Mata and his movement were the catalyst for me, but only second half when PP played deeper. It was a master-class form PP. Personally, I think he should be captain. He does go around geeing other players up. The only one I've ever seen, in a team of no leaders.
This has to be one of the most bizarre games I've been to as a supporter. Down for 60+ minutes then it was like watching a different team, almost the old United. The crowd got the team going or contributed to it at least. At last, a decent atmosphere albeit 60 minutes in. The one blip was Lukaku who remained awful throughout. Personally, I think he needs a "rest".
I believe it will be Bailly's last appearance for a long time and maybe Valencia too.
This has to be one of the most bizarre games I've been to as a supporter. Down for 60+ minutes then it was like watching a different team, almost the old United. The crowd got the team going or contributed to it at least. At last, a decent atmosphere albeit 60 minutes in. The one blip was Lukaku who remained awful throughout. Personally, I think he needs a "rest".
I believe it will be Bailly's last appearance for a long time and maybe Valencia too.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
-
14%
Anthony Martial
-
14%
Juan Mata
-
3%
Alexis Sanchez
-
2%
David de Gea
-
2%
Marouane Fellaini
-
1%
Luke Shaw
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 481 ratings.
Score Predictions
300,80,120
- Man Utd win
- Newcastle win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 21% Man Utd 2:0 Newcastle
- 16% Man Utd 1:0 Newcastle
- 12% Man Utd 0:0 Newcastle
- 11% Man Utd 1:1 Newcastle
- 8% Man Utd 3:0 Newcastle
- 7% Man Utd 2:1 Newcastle
- 6% Man Utd 0:1 Newcastle
- 4% Man Utd 0:5 Newcastle
- 3% Man Utd 5:0 Newcastle
- 3% Man Utd 1:2 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 3:1 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 4:0 Newcastle
- 2% Man Utd 0:2 Newcastle
- 1% Man Utd 2:2 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 0:3 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 0:4 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 1:3 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 3:2 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 1:5 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 3:5 Newcastle
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Newcastle
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Newcastle
- Possession
- 73% 27%
- Shots
- 18 13
- Shots on Target
- 10 8
- Corners
- 10 6
- Fouls
- 16 8
Referee
Anthony Taylor
Man Utd Lineup
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-
replaced by Juan Mata
-
-
-
-
-
-
replaced by Marouane Fellaini
-
-
-
replaced by Alexis Sanchez
