[acrebo]

I need to rewatch re Schweini.

As for Fellaini, well, whenever he gets brought on it kills the game, except when we play Brugge at home.

Yeah BFS was good and definitely involved in as much as I've seen since he joined. He noticeably tired but, in fairness, he was everywhere for the first 60 minutes. He was also stifled by bodies everywhere an no real space to pick a good pass. He slowed things down a bit too much at times but that's because there was nothing on.

His pass for Mata's fluffed chance was brilliant.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yeah BFS was good and definitely involved in as much as I've seen since he joined. He noticeably tired but, in fairness, he was everywhere for the first 60 minutes. He was also stifled by bodies everywhere an no real space to pick a good pass. He slowed things down a bit too much at times but that's because there was nothing on.

His pass for Mata's fluffed chance was brilliant.

BFS did play well, but he was tiring and should have been replaced. He has played two internationals and some high intensity PL games. He is bound to be jaded. He like any new player has to get used to the PL, then putting internationals and CL on top of it are bound to leave someone tired. To put Fellaini and Valencia on was just a waste.

 

[montpelier]

I suppose a very top side would beat PSV (away), fairly often and fairly easily on occasion. I don't suppose that is quite us, atm. We are rebuilding and 'in transition' (still). Can people not see this?

The negative nellies have a point in some of what they're saying, but still a bit TOO negative I feel.

 

[markhrad]

Shaw's injury was devastating and more than likely had a psychological effect on the players.
The game in general was exciting for a change and I liked how Martial and Memphis were linking up and looked dangerous individually as well but we are still crying out for a creative midfielder, Mata remains the king of side and back passes and looks to score more than create for others.
I wonder if Schweinsteiger can play a more advanced midfield role, then Carrick can be accommodated. They are by far our two best midfielders and I would love to see them on the field together

 

[DatIrishFella]

One of those games where you just scratch your head and wonder how the feck we lost it. Ah well, early days.

 

[walsh]

At 1-0 up we looked like we would tear them to shreds and they had nothing to offer. Beggers belief that the game turned out the way it did.

Still, the Shaw injury was far worse than the result.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Has it been mentioned Moreno was UEFA's man of the match?

 

[bosnian_red]

I suppose a very top side would beat PSV (away), fairly often and fairly easily on occasion. I don't suppose that is quite us, atm. We are rebuilding and 'in transition' (still). Can people not see this?

The negative nellies have a point in some of what they're saying, but still a bit TOO negative I feel.

We would beat them the vast majority of the time with the exact same chances and all that. The injury and bad luck is the reason we lost that really, we created plenty of good chances while they got pretty lucky with their first goal and their second was basically a perfect cross that is unlikely he would reproduce on a second try. It was just one of those days. Hell if I remember correctly, a few years ago when Valencia broke his leg vs rangers we ended up trying that game 0-0, at home? I could be wrong, don't remember really, but I remember it being a really bad game that was marred by the injury basically. Tends to happen after things like that.

 

[Henk de Rode]

Being one of the 'negative nellies' here I wonder what needs to happen for our optimists to allow others to vent a little. We lost one if not the best performing players we have last night, and lost a match we should have won or at least drawed. Of course we should'nt fire LvG on the spot, but at the same time it's pretty clear that all is not well. I think there are plenty of reasons to be critical about the results. We win Liverpool 3-1, but we lose PSV 2-1. This is not the same PSV we encountered years ago. Their budget roughly matches the fee we payed for Martial.

 

[montpelier]

Being one of the 'negative nellies' here I wonder what needs to happen for our optimists to allow others to vent a little. We lost one if not the best performing players we have last night, and lost a match we should have won or at least drawed. Of course we should'nt fire LvG on the spot, but at the same time it's pretty clear that all is not well. I think there are plenty of reasons to be critical about the results. We win Liverpool 3-1, but we lose PSV 2-1. This is not the same PSV we encountered years ago. Their budget roughly matches the fee we payed for Martial.

I did say those NNs venting may have a point. I can be quite NN,meself, btw. I think we're moving in the right direction.

We would beat them the vast majority of the time with the exact same chances and all that. The injury and bad luck is the reason we lost that really, we created plenty of good chances while they got pretty lucky with their first goal and their second was basically a perfect cross that is unlikely he would reproduce on a second try. It was just one of those days. Hell if I remember correctly, a few years ago when Valencia broke his leg vs rangers we ended up trying that game 0-0, at home? I could be wrong, don't remember really, but I remember it being a really bad game that was marred by the injury basically. Tends to happen after things like that.

Aye, it does, .

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Being one of the 'negative nellies' here I wonder what needs to happen for our optimists to allow others to vent a little. We lost one if not the best performing players we have last night, and lost a match we should have won or at least drawed. Of course we should'nt fire LvG on the spot, but at the same time it's pretty clear that all is not well. I think there are plenty of reasons to be critical about the results. We win Liverpool 3-1, but we lose PSV 2-1. This is not the same PSV we encountered years ago. Their budget roughly matches the fee we payed for Martial.

As an optimist, I see the pessimists as just noise, moaning for the sake of it. We can win and they will have a moan. The start with they say things like, its because Herrera isn't playing, so when he plays its because Rooney is out of position and should be No. 9. Rooney goes No. 9 and it becomes Mata on the right or LVG is constraining them. So when Martial and Depay score creative goals, it must be because they are ignoring LVG - the bad, disciplinarian, who kills all creativity. They just look for reasons to moan and be negative. As an optimist, I have enjoyed the results more than the play. However, I do see progress. I wouldn't swap anyone LVG has bought for someone we previously had. Are there players who can't play to his system, I believe so, but most of those do not make the team very often.

Yes, we lost last night. Having seen the match now it is hard to see the value in what pessimists say. On another day, Darmian gets beat in the air at the corner, and Blind doesn't head into his own net, so Young clears off the line. End result no goal. But it Blind did head into his own net. How the feck is that LVG's problem, he certainly doesn't train them for that. It was instinct and it fecked us up. Accidents happen. It wasn't planned, deliberate or a sign of us being clueless.

As for goal No. 2, we would love to have someone who could cross like that. Sure Darmian screwed up giving it to the opposition, but they still had work to do. Bloody good cross and good running from the PSV lad. Could Blind or Rojo done better. Maybe. But overall, the back line were comfortable for most of the game.

Looking at the tackle that got Shaw, I think you see it differently when not watching the game live and the adrenalin is flowing. The PSV defender knew it was a bad tackle and was shocked, hence he walked away, not looking. Not sure there was intent to hurt, but certainly intent to say he is not getting past. I think he touched the ball, so would have been a difficult decision for the ref to award a penalty for dangerous play. Let's hope he recovers.

You are right, we should have won, we should have against Newcastle and Swansea as well. However, we didn't and it has been a long time since someone went a whole season without being beaten. Just to set the record straight, optimists, do moan, we can all say we should have played someone else in that position or in a different formation. Most times the manager has it right, and we get it wrong. I would not have changed the midfield pair from Liverpool, however, it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the team, they played well as a team yesterday and were more attack focused than in previous games. It is coming.

 

[7even]

I think it was a mistake to start with Herrera in a two man midfield. Why brake up a defensively solid midfield formation in a tricky away game. Moving Mata to the center and Young on the right in Martial's first game as a starter was to many changes.

We should have continued with a midfield triangle with Herrera at the to with Young replacing either Mata or Memphis. I was also exited before the game but with hindsight it was a bad idea.

Another thing that made me irritated was that we didn't used our chances when we had opportunities to counter attack. Both Memphis and Anthony made several runs to open spaces but hardly never received the ball, instead we opted for a pass back to our defense in order to start all over again with possession as our first priority.

IMO we need to take more chances when there is opportunities and our opponents are dispossessed.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

5.6 - Total Average Rating
5.6 - Your Average Rating

You are a smart bunch

 

[marlowe78]

I think it was a mistake to start with Herrera in a two man midfield. Why brake up a defensively solid midfield formation in a tricky away game. Moving Mata to the center and Young on the right in Martial's first game as a starter was to many changes.

Exactly what I thought. Why play such an open setup in an away game? I want to win but a draw from a tight defensive game would've been a completely acceptable result.

 

[Rednotdead]

As an optimist, I see the pessimists as just noise, moaning for the sake of it. We can win and they will have a moan. The start with they say things like, its because Herrera isn't playing, so when he plays its because Rooney is out of position and should be No. 9. Rooney goes No. 9 and it becomes Mata on the right or LVG is constraining them. So when Martial and Depay score creative goals, it must be because they are ignoring LVG - the bad, disciplinarian, who kills all creativity. They just look for reasons to moan and be negative. As an optimist, I have enjoyed the results more than the play. However, I do see progress. I wouldn't swap anyone LVG has bought for someone we previously had. Are there players who can't play to his system, I believe so, but most of those do not make the team very often.

Yes, we lost last night. Having seen the match now it is hard to see the value in what pessimists say. On another day Darmian gets beat in the air at the corner, and Blind doesn't head into his own net, so Young clears off the line. End result no goal. But it Blind did head into his own net. How the feck is that LVG's problem, he certainly doesn't train them for that. It was instinct and it fecked us up. Accidents happen. It wasn't planned, deliberate or a sign of us being clueless.

As for goal No. 2, we would love to have someone who could cross like that. Sure Darmian screwed up giving it to the opposition, but they still had work to do. Bloody good cross and good running from the PSV lad. Could Blind or Rojo done better. Maybe. But overall, the back line were comfortable for most of the game.

Looking at the tackle that got Shaw, I think you see it differently when not watching the game live and the adrenalin is flowing. The PSV defender knew it was a bad tackle and was shocked, hence he walked away, not looking. Not sure there was intent to hurt, but certainly intent to say he is not getting past. I think he touched the ball, so would have been a difficult decision for the ref to award a penalty for dangerous play. Let's hope he recovers.

You are right, we should have won, we should have against Newcastle and Swansea as well. However, we didn't and it has been a long time since someone went a whole season without being beaten. Just to set the record straight, optimists, do moan, we can all say we should have played someone else in that position or in a different formation. Most times the manager has it right, and we get it wrong. I would not have changed the midfield pair from Liverpool, however, it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the team, they played well as a team yesterday and were more attack focused than in previous games. It is coming.

"On another day" is a complete irrelevance and of no worth in any argument. All that's important is what happens on "this" day and what happened last night was yet another instance of an unacceptable performance.

 

[RedFish]

So gutted about Shaw. Bloody feckin hell.

 

[clarkydaz]

"On another day" is a complete irrelevance and of no worth in any argument. All that's important is what happens on "this" day and what happened last night was yet another instance of an unacceptable performance.

what happens then?

 

[Gopher Brown]

The problem isn't in losing, we are always going to lose games, but we've had two 2-1 losses in recent weeks and their winning goals were scored in the 66th and 57th minutes. If we conceded in the 88th minute, then fair enough, but we've essentially had 60 minutes there to score 2 goals which would salvage points, and we haven't come close.

 

[Winrar]

The problem isn't in losing, we are always going to lose games, but we've had two 2-1 losses in recent weeks and their winning goals were scored in the 66th and 57th minutes. If we conceded in the 88th minute, then fair enough, but we've essentially had 60 minutes there to score 2 goals which would salvage points, and we haven't come close.

we lack the sort of urgency that we did under SAF when we would give opposition hell when we need to salvage a win or a draw.

we are just way too risk averse in situations we need to, well, take risks. possibly down to van gaal's "playing-it-safe philosophy."

 

[Red Dreams]

agree with this.

 

[Gopher Brown]

we lack the sort of urgency that we did under SAF when we would give opposition hell when we need to salvage a win or a draw.

we are just way too risk averse in situations we need to, well, take risks. possibly down to van gaal's "playing-it-safe philosophy."

Yes, SAF used to tell them to stay patient until the last 15 minutes, then do anything it takes.

I'd rather lose 3-1 or 4-1 trying to win, than accept a 2-1 loss, as we seem happy to do.

That's why I was never that annoyed with the 1-6 City game. They scored 3 in the last couple of minutes because we were chasing our second. I'd rather lose trying, than not try.

 

[Americano]

I actually thought we played really well. I was much happier with today's performance then the wins against Spurs and Villa for example.

We basically lost because we missed the 3 chances we made after the first goal, and PSV scored the two they had.

That's as solid & succinct of a summary as I could think of. Chance conversion is so critical, and something we struggle with right now. We have to either create more chances or improve finishing. I would only add that we seem to lapse from our positional discipline / possession game at critical moments. Our opponents have done quite well to sieze these chances and beat us lately.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

"On another day" is a complete irrelevance and of no worth in any argument. All that's important is what happens on "this" day and what happened last night was yet another instance of an unacceptable performance.

Why because we got hit by a sucker punch? Shit happens, get over it, it doesn't turn everything that happened to shit.

 

[Raoul]

"On another day" is a complete irrelevance and of no worth in any argument. All that's important is what happens on "this" day and what happened last night was yet another instance of an unacceptable performance.

Seems people are over analyzing a simple loss. Football happens, time to move on and get 3 points at OT.

 

[saivet]

Okay, so I just watched the highlights. Seemed like we played quite well but spurned some good chances, especially that Mata one. Not too worried about this group still.

 

[Red Shorts]

?

Should have finished that with " and that's the bench we had available"...

 

[Getsme]

You missed Martial is a pub footballer. That's a beauty, even for the Caf.

Best post yet.

 

[Henk de Rode]

As an optimist, I see the pessimists as just noise, moaning for the sake of it. We can win and they will have a moan. The start with they say things like, its because Herrera isn't playing, so when he plays its because Rooney is out of position and should be No. 9. Rooney goes No. 9 and it becomes Mata on the right or LVG is constraining them. So when Martial and Depay score creative goals, it must be because they are ignoring LVG - the bad, disciplinarian, who kills all creativity. They just look for reasons to moan and be negative. As an optimist, I have enjoyed the results more than the play. However, I do see progress. I wouldn't swap anyone LVG has bought for someone we previously had. Are there players who can't play to his system, I believe so, but most of those do not make the team very often.

Yes, we lost last night. Having seen the match now it is hard to see the value in what pessimists say. On another day, Darmian gets beat in the air at the corner, and Blind doesn't head into his own net, so Young clears off the line. End result no goal. But it Blind did head into his own net. How the feck is that LVG's problem, he certainly doesn't train them for that. It was instinct and it fecked us up. Accidents happen. It wasn't planned, deliberate or a sign of us being clueless.

As for goal No. 2, we would love to have someone who could cross like that. Sure Darmian screwed up giving it to the opposition, but they still had work to do. Bloody good cross and good running from the PSV lad. Could Blind or Rojo done better. Maybe. But overall, the back line were comfortable for most of the game.

Looking at the tackle that got Shaw, I think you see it differently when not watching the game live and the adrenalin is flowing. The PSV defender knew it was a bad tackle and was shocked, hence he walked away, not looking. Not sure there was intent to hurt, but certainly intent to say he is not getting past. I think he touched the ball, so would have been a difficult decision for the ref to award a penalty for dangerous play. Let's hope he recovers.

You are right, we should have won, we should have against Newcastle and Swansea as well. However, we didn't and it has been a long time since someone went a whole season without being beaten. Just to set the record straight, optimists, do moan, we can all say we should have played someone else in that position or in a different formation. Most times the manager has it right, and we get it wrong. I would not have changed the midfield pair from Liverpool, however, it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the team, they played well as a team yesterday and were more attack focused than in previous games. It is coming.

Reading your reply I can only agree with the points you mentioned. I have to admit that my initial posts in this thread were fueled by disappointment of losing to PSV and losing Shaw. Moaning for the sake of it, as you would call it. At the same time optimists (for the sake of optimism) can be just as annoying. There's always an excuse. Eventhough I share most of your opinion about LvG, he does make mistakes -and we'll be looking for them trying to find explanations for bad results. Someone who's as confident as LvG tends to provoke these kind of reactions as well.

 

[Rednotdead]

Seems people are over analyzing a simple loss. Football happens, time to move on and get 3 points at OT.

Nothing to analyse. Just another defeat and poor performance, and just another instance of Van Gaal escaping criticism.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Reading your reply I can only agree with the points you mentioned. I have to admit that my initial posts in this thread were fueled by disappointment of losing to PSV and losing Shaw. Moaning for the sake of it, as you would call it. At the same time optimists (for the sake of optimism) can be just as annoying. There's always an excuse. Eventhough I share most of your opinion about LvG, he does make mistakes -and we'll be looking for them trying to find explanations for bad results. Someone who's as confident as LvG tends to provoke these kind of reactions as well.

Yep, agreed.

Everyone can make a mistake, but mistakes do not turn everything else to shit.

There are always 'ifs', but we never know if those 'ifs' would have worked.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The problem isn't in losing, we are always going to lose games, but we've had two 2-1 losses in recent weeks and their winning goals were scored in the 66th and 57th minutes. If we conceded in the 88th minute, then fair enough, but we've essentially had 60 minutes there to score 2 goals which would salvage points, and we haven't come close.

I believe in the Swansea game we passed the ball back to the center circle with seconds left in injury time. It's like we weren't even trying to salvage anything from the game.

 

[Rednotdead]

Why because we got hit by a sucker punch? Shit happens, get over it, it doesn't turn everything that happened to shit.

Yes, shit happens. Nothing we can do about it. Not Van Gaal's fault at all.

 

[Raoul]

Yes, shit happens. Nothing we can do about it. Not Van Gaal's fault at all.

Blaming LvG would be inappropriate here - the squad were clearly deflated after the Shaw injury and PSV were tactically and emotionally ready for us. That happens, how we deal with it is what's important.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

It also wasn't Van Gaal's fault that we created a good amount of chances, and squandered nearly all of them.

Should have had a penalty, and Moreno should have walked. If it was anyone but Smalling through on goal, then that would have been 2-0. Mata should have scored, and Memphis should have had another.

Having to reshape your back four, bringing in a player who hasn't played a minute of football this season, is also very difficult. It just wasn't our day.

 

[Offside]

United have got a good lot of nifty players now under Van Gaal and we have a formula to win the big games. Last night showed though how we are either not ruthless enough when we are creative, sometimes we are not creative enough. This is a much bigger problem away from home but we saw it against Newcastle at home too.

We will be hard to beat this year and I think will do okay in Europe. But games like last night tell me we won't be experiencing a proper and serious challenge for the league and CL until we have a 30 goal a season striker.

 

[Redguern]

Yes, SAF used to tell them to stay patient until the last 15 minutes, then do anything it takes.

I'd rather lose 3-1 or 4-1 trying to win, than accept a 2-1 loss, as we seem happy to do.

That's why I was never that annoyed with the 1-6 City game. They scored 3 in the last couple of minutes because we were chasing our second. I'd rather lose trying, than not try.

Don't forget that we lost the league to City that season on goal difference - they had 8 more than us... If we'd not fecked that game up so spectacularly (which represented a +10 goal swing in their favour) then the whole league result could have been different... so yeah, bring back kamikaze football

 

[Loon]

It's strange how much the Shaw injury has bummed me out. The lad was great this season.

 

[Offside]

Blaming LvG would be inappropriate here - the squad were clearly deflated after the Shaw injury and PSV were tactically and emotionally ready for us. That happens, how we deal with it is what's important.

A win at home in our next group game would put us right back on track.

 

[Adisa]

The problem isn't in losing, we are always going to lose games, but we've had two 2-1 losses in recent weeks and their winning goals were scored in the 66th and 57th minutes. If we conceded in the 88th minute, then fair enough, but we've essentially had 60 minutes there to score 2 goals which would salvage points, and we haven't come close.

This is a big issue.

 

[Moriarty]

Yes, shit happens. Nothing we can do about it. Not Van Gaal's fault at all.

Shaw's injury changed the game for us. Van Gaal picked a side that was more than capable of taking the points but, as you say, shit happens. You can't legislate for a terrible referee either. Moreno should have seen red and a penalty awarded. He took the man with his follow through and even if he hadn't shattered Shaw's ankle, he denied a goal scoring opportunity. Anyway, it's over and done with and we have to beat Wolfsburg. We should be able to do that but missing out on a centre-half and another striker this past summer may cost us dearly in the long run.