Fair post
PL L FA Premier League
Manchester United 0:1 Southampton
Post-match discussion
Sun, 11 January 2015
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
They at least made it look remotely by design.
You might be on to something there.
And maybe Van Gaal is being too cautious and setting out teams not to lose (albeit not working today) rather than win because he's desperate for that top 4 spot.
I'd still rather seeing us going balls to the wall like Leicester away rather than this tumescent stuff though.
There's a odd feeling even on here. The Moyes United thing did'nt work out , it's time some people accept that and move on.
There's plenty's more mid table mangers in the sea.
The Shaw sub killed us. We weren't good enough, but we looked awful after we lost any kind of pace on the left as well as Blinds ability to bring the ball out from LCB. I thought the first half was decent and I felt confident we'd get a goal.
Di Maria is not Robben or Sanchez. He's not a striker. Rooney and Di Maria should have played in opposite positions.
Not long ago, we looked as if we would finish 3rd comfortably, with a possibility of putting pressure on 2nd. Losing today, and with Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool creeping up in recent weeks, we've lost that advantage.
Hopefully with everyone back we can actually figure out our best 11, and go on a run. I'm not full of confidence though.
Di Maria is not Robben or Sanchez. He's not a striker. Rooney and Di Maria should have played in opposite positions.
Not long ago, we looked as if we would finish 3rd comfortably, with a possibility of putting pressure on 2nd. Losing today, and with Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool creeping up in recent weeks, we've lost that advantage.
Hopefully with everyone back we can actually figure out our best 11, and go on a run. I'm not full of confidence though.
Spot on. Only difference is that in those games we were far more clinical and too all of our chances. Mata fluffed his lines a bit tonight. We definitely weren't as bad as people are making out though.
Completely unacceptable performance from Manchester United. Rooney's kidding himself if he believes we deserved to win. van Gaal's philosophy, well, for the first time I'm beginning to doubt it's suited to the Premier League. Top four is now in jeopardy. Again. Sigh.
That Mata got into position to score three times justifies that.
How many times did Rooney or RVP find themselves enough space to take a ball and then a shot?
Mata was the only outfield player who gave us any spark at all today.
after a loss this forum is a disgrace to be honest - funny that some make jokes about rawk just look at our fanbase first i would say. wayne and lvg are totally right, we dominated the game and should have won while sotton played for a draw and got a lucky win. dont know how someone can dispute this. as for 3-5-2 or 442 dont overestimate the formation - it is more about the players playing in form. as di maria and several others are coming back from injuries its no wonder that they arent clicking from the off.
Manchester United dominated a game in which they had 0 attempts on target?
You are quite right in that we had players coming back from injury who were understandably off top form. We did however have attacking players who were fully fit, and who have recently been playing themselves into form, who were left out of the squad entirely.
I fecking hate that formation.. and a simple switch with Rooney and Di Maria could've saved us from that game.
As I said in another thread, playing a back 3 with these defenders doesn't work. We don't have the ability there to build from the back. It bypasses our midfield, where we would believe our decent players are.
Crucially, Blackett coming on for Shaw took away any bit of width we could have had, on top of that di Maria also was taken off when he could have been pushed wide instead of up front.
The tempo was very poor. We lack intensity when playing like this, and we create feck all due to it
Crucially, Blackett coming on for Shaw took away any bit of width we could have had, on top of that di Maria also was taken off when he could have been pushed wide instead of up front.
The tempo was very poor. We lack intensity when playing like this, and we create feck all due to it
What's also alarming is that this reminded me of the 0-1 home defeats we suffered last season under Moyes. We were dominant on the ball but did nothing with it while other team made their chances count, and that has not changed.
Having an useless high percentage of possesssion does not equal dominating game, no, unless we're turning into lunatic Barcelona fans from couple of years back who were screaming 'but we've had higher posesssion!!111' when they were losing matches. Neither Carrick nor Rooney, Mata, RVP are coming from injury, Valencia and Shaw were training with the team for a long time now (so esentially they were not injured for a long time but it was more of that 'match fit' bullshit which applies only to some of our players) and yet our attacking department today managed to create whole feck all.
Anybody got full quotes of what LVG said after the match?
@Winrar absolutely, today reminded me of that annoying 1-0 loss to Everton, I think that their Costarican player (sorry, can't remember the name now) that scored against us, a winger, even celebrated in the same corner as Tadić.
He is, how many shots Forster have to save, none. How can he say we deserved to win. He is deluding himself.
We dominated in possesion and that's it. Soton wasnt great but the way we played they looked comfortable, yes came for the draw and won, they were in fact organised and we didnt have a clue how to open them up.
Domination in possesion doesnt mean aynthing if you cant make a proper chance until last 5 minutes...
rvp should have scored so should mata (2-3). last passes werent good as well otherwise there would have been some sitters too. what i want to say is it wasnt all shit as some make out - could easily have won the game and all would be happy
I quoted LVG above.
So would I. I thought that's what this season would be. That we would just be all out entertaining and sometimes it may lead us to lose 5-3 but we will at the end of the day win a lot of games. For a while now it was just been really shit Football. The only way I think we can win games is just to let the likes of Di Maria and Mata lose and just concede goals whilst scoring them.
Not one shot on target and 3-5-2 against Southampton at home.. We didnt deserve to loose but we didnt deserve to win either.
Ah, cheers mate, missed it somehow. I echo your sentiment, doesn't look too bright, don't think he'll drop that 352 shit.
Yup, dont see it happening unfortunately. He will stick to it even more after this I think. Which is depressing. He's convinced we dominated and all. Sure we dominated possesion. Yas. Its like those Arsenal threads - Yass, we won a throw in.
Games like these require a skill player to take the ball beat two or three players and kick the ball into the goal. Di Maria has that ability and RVP to a lesser extent but he does not get the ball enough to try it.
That's fair enough. I'd agree that it isn't as bad as some make out. Some of the criticism of the defense and of Carrick is ridiculous. For me, the post match comments were more frustrating than the match itself. If our coach and captain can't (or won't) see the failings in our current tactics then how are we ever going to improve?
I disagree tbh. Mata should have scored 2. Their goal was also rather lucky and was their only decent chance of the game.
With an identical performance, except for Mata finishing those chances, and everyone comes out of that game buzzing and ready to roll over QPR.
Agree that this forum is painful when we lose and it's a lot of overreaction however, we have to and should expect better football than this. We have stopped leaking goals but that has come at the cost of playing well and creating chances. No doubt constant injuries has cost us as we havent been able to field a consistent 11. We somehow need to get back to that without conceding and I believe we eventually will.
Agree
yeah, of course i am also pissed that we lost and of course we must improve but i think with continuity we will get better and better. i am totally convinced that we ill get into the top 4 and maybe we go on a run in the FA cup. this season isnt over yet
We didn't though. Did we. If Bayern Munich had got their shots on target in 1999, we wouldn't have won the Champions League. It doesn't matter what might of happened, it what did.
I'm normally a glass-is-half-full guy but today was just not a banana peel kind of day. We've persisted with tactics that simply aren't maximizing the talent in this squad, which should comfortably be in third place at worst.
A bad day at the office happens to Chelsea, Real and everyone else and we're not exempt from the laws of human nature. But if Louis doesn't adapt to his squad and persists with these tactics -- which we all beLieber were only necessary to cope with the injury crisis -- we're at risk of not even qualifying for the Europa League.
A bad day at the office happens to Chelsea, Real and everyone else and we're not exempt from the laws of human nature. But if Louis doesn't adapt to his squad and persists with these tactics -- which we all beLieber were only necessary to cope with the injury crisis -- we're at risk of not even qualifying for the Europa League.
autocorrect mistake, now corrected.
my point was, you say valencia was in good positions. was he? if you mean the few times he was in a position to cross then thats just the least you should expect, put anybody there and the ball will be worked out to him. he was never once properly in behind the defence or remotely close to having a shot himself, which isnt his fault. i think you have a very low standard if you think he actually looked threatening only for his final ball to let him down. the few times he did do well there was literally nothing to aim at and no movement or late arrivers in the box. our final ball isnt the problem, its being unable to create a situation where a final ball might actually create a goal.
we cant creat chances. even against yeovil we struggled until a goal out of nothing bailed us out.
I really do think that City's 3-0 at St. Mary's and the drop of form Southampton had just before and at the start of the festive period has made many fans believe that they are just a side that had a good run of wins in the beginning of the season. This was never going to be easy for us as it wasn't for Chelsea, Arsenal and others either.
The core of their team is Schneiderlin and Wanyama, they protect the space in front of the back four very well and it's very difficult to get players on the ball in between their lines. They were good defensively today and that was the difference between us and the Saints. We use 3 CBs in order to provide cover cause they aren't good at 1v1 situations but the goal we conceded was hilarious, again. Three men on Pelle, one marking him and two more closing him down, yet he so casually spots Tadic's run and passes him the ball. And after we get lucky, when Tadic hits the cross, the ball bounces back to the area where our three CBs are standing. What do they do?...... They just watch the ball.
This is a defense even Chelsea and Arsenal found it hard to break down and they have dribblers and pacey wingers in their teams. I didn't expect us to control the tempo and force them to sit back but we did despite Rooney's poor creative game and Carrick's bad decisions in the attacking half. And it's sad to say that because Rooney was decent for the first time in his defensive and build up duties as a CM while Carrick collected many second balls in advanced positions and played some nice direct passes. But Rooney has to find the concentration to contribute on both sides of the pitch if he's to become a box to box midfielder and the front three have to link better with each other. At this level you have to produce some one touch football in the final third and get some first balls in the opposition box.
We got players on the ball in the right places but the decision making was dire and i can understand Rooney's and LvG's comments after the game. We have won matches with much worse performances than today. We were much worse at St. Mary's when S'ampton were missing a lot of key players. We had the better chances and if Mata was as clinical as RvP was at St. Mary's we would have got something out of this game.
There are things to worry about though and i'm not talking about the formation. First of all Herrera isn't adapting well to the deep lying play maker role and the physicality/pace of the PL. He was anonymous today and justified LvG for playing Rooney there. The problem is that Rooney is forced out of his advanced role in which he has provided the majority of his goals and assists.
Secondly Shaw still hasn't improved at all when going forward, he can't beat a man and his crossing is poor. Today he missed Clyne two or three times in our half too. If Young can become better in the role there are no excuses for Shaw. Still he has the benefit of the doubt cause he's young and it's his first year at a new club under a new manager.
Another point is that none of our forwards can get to a first ball first or win a challenge against an opposition CB. It's becoming frustrating now, you just have to look at how much S'ampton's game improved today when Pelle started to work the spaces in front of our box and wide in the second half. Why can't we do that?
The biggest issue for me is Di Maria and this is, imho, where the manager's choices should be criticized. LvG claims that his position on the pitch is "fixed" but i can't see that. Di Maria started playing as a CM (in both formations), later he was moved to the wings for a couple of matches and now he's being used as a second striker. I don't know how "fixed" is that but it starts to look like Fellaini last season when we all knew that we needed his aggressiveness and urgency in the midfield but Moyes couldn't fit him in his 4-4-2. We also know that we need Di Maria's pace on the ball and his ability to link with his teammates but LvG can't find him the right position.
The core of their team is Schneiderlin and Wanyama, they protect the space in front of the back four very well and it's very difficult to get players on the ball in between their lines. They were good defensively today and that was the difference between us and the Saints. We use 3 CBs in order to provide cover cause they aren't good at 1v1 situations but the goal we conceded was hilarious, again. Three men on Pelle, one marking him and two more closing him down, yet he so casually spots Tadic's run and passes him the ball. And after we get lucky, when Tadic hits the cross, the ball bounces back to the area where our three CBs are standing. What do they do?...... They just watch the ball.
This is a defense even Chelsea and Arsenal found it hard to break down and they have dribblers and pacey wingers in their teams. I didn't expect us to control the tempo and force them to sit back but we did despite Rooney's poor creative game and Carrick's bad decisions in the attacking half. And it's sad to say that because Rooney was decent for the first time in his defensive and build up duties as a CM while Carrick collected many second balls in advanced positions and played some nice direct passes. But Rooney has to find the concentration to contribute on both sides of the pitch if he's to become a box to box midfielder and the front three have to link better with each other. At this level you have to produce some one touch football in the final third and get some first balls in the opposition box.
We got players on the ball in the right places but the decision making was dire and i can understand Rooney's and LvG's comments after the game. We have won matches with much worse performances than today. We were much worse at St. Mary's when S'ampton were missing a lot of key players. We had the better chances and if Mata was as clinical as RvP was at St. Mary's we would have got something out of this game.
There are things to worry about though and i'm not talking about the formation. First of all Herrera isn't adapting well to the deep lying play maker role and the physicality/pace of the PL. He was anonymous today and justified LvG for playing Rooney there. The problem is that Rooney is forced out of his advanced role in which he has provided the majority of his goals and assists.
Secondly Shaw still hasn't improved at all when going forward, he can't beat a man and his crossing is poor. Today he missed Clyne two or three times in our half too. If Young can become better in the role there are no excuses for Shaw. Still he has the benefit of the doubt cause he's young and it's his first year at a new club under a new manager.
Another point is that none of our forwards can get to a first ball first or win a challenge against an opposition CB. It's becoming frustrating now, you just have to look at how much S'ampton's game improved today when Pelle started to work the spaces in front of our box and wide in the second half. Why can't we do that?
The biggest issue for me is Di Maria and this is, imho, where the manager's choices should be criticized. LvG claims that his position on the pitch is "fixed" but i can't see that. Di Maria started playing as a CM (in both formations), later he was moved to the wings for a couple of matches and now he's being used as a second striker. I don't know how "fixed" is that but it starts to look like Fellaini last season when we all knew that we needed his aggressiveness and urgency in the midfield but Moyes couldn't fit him in his 4-4-2. We also know that we need Di Maria's pace on the ball and his ability to link with his teammates but LvG can't find him the right position.
We have a good squad who he refuses to utilise properly. Instead of playing fast flowing attacking football. It is possession, possession and more possession and when that fails, hoof it to Fellaini. He would have been happy if we had drawn today, when we need to be winning.
LVG has to stopp play Rooney in the midfield.. I can't say he was better as striker today. Time to drop him maybe?
I think so too . I'm just annoyed we aren't playing better football atm as I expect more with the team we have.
This whole idea of 'deserving to win' or 'deserving to lose' looks beyond what actually happened though. The term applies to how you played compared to your opponent over the whole 90mins. Over the whole 90mins we made more dangerous chances than them which we failed to convert.
Perhaps we just have different ideas of this deserving to win term, but to me you're saying we scored fewer goals than the opponent so we deserved to lose. That's just reading the score.
You don't win if you don't score. I thought that was the whole point.
Our formation is the problem. Shit in defence, shit in midfield, wrong people upfront.
Didn't deserve anything today. Just angry at how slow we are and how easy we are to stop! No pace, no innovation - nothing good today.
Didn't deserve anything today. Just angry at how slow we are and how easy we are to stop! No pace, no innovation - nothing good today.
Course it is, but I thought we were talking about Rooney saying we deserved to win? You can lose and still be justified in saying you deserved to win.
We were quite good in defence today, i think you are overreacting a bit.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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24%
Antonio Valencia
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19%
Juan Mata
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7%
Chris Smalling
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4%
Michael Carrick
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3%
David de Gea
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2%
Marouane Fellaini
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1%
Luke Shaw
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1%
Wayne Rooney
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1%
Ander Herrera
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1%
Angel Di Maria
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1%
Phil Jones
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 501 ratings.
Score Predictions
629,52,85
- Man Utd win
- Southampton win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 27% Man Utd 2:1 Southampton
- 17% Man Utd 3:1 Southampton
- 16% Man Utd 2:0 Southampton
- 8% Man Utd 3:0 Southampton
- 6% Man Utd 1:1 Southampton
- 5% Man Utd 1:0 Southampton
- 4% Man Utd 1:2 Southampton
- 3% Man Utd 2:2 Southampton
- 3% Man Utd 3:2 Southampton
- 2% Man Utd 4:1 Southampton
- 2% Man Utd 5:0 Southampton
- 2% Man Utd 0:0 Southampton
- 1% Man Utd 4:0 Southampton
- 1% Man Utd 0:2 Southampton
- 1% Man Utd 1:3 Southampton
- 1% Man Utd 0:1 Southampton
- 1% Man Utd 4:2 Southampton
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 Southampton
- 0% Man Utd 5:4 Southampton
- 0% Man Utd 0:3 Southampton
- 0% Man Utd 2:3 Southampton
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- Southampton
- Possession
- 61% 39%
- Shots
- 10 9
- Shots on Target
- 0 1
- Corners
- 3 5
- Fouls
- 9 10
Referee
Phil Dowd
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Tyler Blackett
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replaced by Marouane Fellaini
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-
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replaced by Ander Herrera
