So at the end of the day, Arsenal made up 2 points on us and are now 3 points behind, but everyone else around us dropped points. Could have gone worse! Fairly lucky in that the draw against Villa and now Spurs hasn't been punished at all. If we get through the stoke game with a win and no injuries (very tough ask of course) then I can see us going on a nice run, with players coming back.
PL D FA Premier League
Tottenham Hotspur 0:0 Manchester United
Post-match discussion
Sun, 28 December 2014
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
It didn't. I think tiredness was certainly a factor in a scrappy second half were neither team played well. Whether it would've been any different without the games so close together is unknown. How fit Tottenham are doesn't really have any bearing on whether United players were tired or not.
How will I cope?
It's fine to whinge about the short time between games (and I agree that it isn't enough time) but it is extremely odd that we picked these two games to field our first unchanged XI in 85 games. Frankly LVG knew these fixtures were coming and should have planned better for it, meaning resting some players in preparation for today.
Due to injuries we were pretty thin on the ground! What did you want? Ronaldo and Ibra off the bench?!
Should have scored first half but somehow didn't.
LVG's subs left lot to be desired 2nd half. Poor performance in that half.
LVG's subs left lot to be desired 2nd half. Poor performance in that half.
Strootman is barely able to play a game.
I think he has played 1 game so far this season and he was pretty ordinary in that game (as you'd expect).
Strootman will need half a season to regain his match fitness (just like Falcao has had).
If you want an immediate first team starter, look elsewhere.
This is a time when we really miss Fellaini, if only as a sub. We couldn't hold-up the ball to save our lives in the second half.
Though with the way aerial duels were being called (so far as I could see them on the blurry hotel TV), he might've picked up two yellows in short order...
Though with the way aerial duels were being called (so far as I could see them on the blurry hotel TV), he might've picked up two yellows in short order...
I couldnt have put it better myself.
Well, we have not lost any ground on the leaders, only Arse have caught up a little, which was going to happen sooner or later anyway.
Yeah, he was supposed to rest players and play the injured ones right? Some of you can't even have any logic at times, we had players out injured and he had no option, would you have started with any of the players on the bench?
just finished watching the game. To be honest it was a good result at the end. We should have buried the game in the first half, but we didn't. Van gaal knew we would be absolutely knackered in the second half and made the changes to give us the point in the end, seeing as it wasn't logical to go all in away from home. Our unlucky finishing in the game balanced out with us being lucky that teams around us dropped the same number of points.
Who would you rest mate??
He had zero options to change
The main issue I felt were that our strikers looked tired today. Falcao playing twice in 43 hours was always going to be questionable, and RVP is no spring chicken either. Carrick was rightly given a rest against Newcastle once the game was in doubt but he still looked knackered by the end.
Regarding injuries and "who could we have played instead" - the fact is that none of us know the actual injury situation nowadays thanks to LVGs inaccurate timescales and the "illness" that seems to take half the squad, and then somehow manages to break Fellainis ribs (as an example)... apparently. Still, Wilson could easily have had more gametime against Newcastle and/or started today. We had Pereira on the bench, why not use him? I never understand the idea of putting someone on the bench if you arent prepared to use them... its like Walcott going to the WC in 2006 (I think) and not playing whatsoever, why bloody bring him then?
The much maligned Fletcher could have played more, and allowed Rooney to go up front, in turn giving another of the strikers a rest. McNair or Jones could have been asked to spend some time in midfield to alleviate Carrick/Rooney.
The point is, there are always options, and I dont readily buy these phantom illnesses that have come up for Fellaini, Januzaj, Herrera etc only to then be told a couple of games later that they have managed to injure themselves whilst ill.
Basically, the first time in 85 games we pick the same XI and it is when we have two games in 43 hours, and then complain about players being tired. If Moyes did it he would be crucified on here and rightly so.
Largely agree. But, playing a tired Rooney Falcao or Carrick vs an inexperienced youth with less ability but is fit isn't such an easy choice as you make.
I meant they should have won considering how tired we were in the second half, I phrased that wrong.. We were there for the taking but all they did was close us down, win the ball and give it back to us.. Rinse and repeat.
Man It's not even the result that annoys me any more. It's the way the players just couldn't be arsed in the second half to try and win the game and people using fatigue as an excuse, I mean really? These are all players who should be used to playing 3 times a week, are we going to forfeit the CL next season(if we make it) because the players are too fecking tired?.
Losses don't bother me if I know the other team was clearly better and wanted it more, but we played against a crap team that couldn't be bothered either. I mean Fergie dropped Rooney for the CL match against Madrid because he was getting lazy(I know Rooney is not Lazy any more, just using an example), unfortunately our manager doesn't have the luxury of doing that due to these bloody injuries.
Losses don't bother me if I know the other team was clearly better and wanted it more, but we played against a crap team that couldn't be bothered either. I mean Fergie dropped Rooney for the CL match against Madrid because he was getting lazy(I know Rooney is not Lazy any more, just using an example), unfortunately our manager doesn't have the luxury of doing that due to these bloody injuries.
If we didn't have two lumbering oafs as strikers today we'd have been out of site by half time and the second half wouldn't have been such a monumental mess. Young, Mata and Carrick were on song and picking Spurs apart, then Falcao and RVP would just dick around like a pair of Heskeys and make it all irrelevant.
Falcao can't seem to control a football to save his life, which is a slightly significant problem. Van Persie could control it fine but then, even when he's literally 4 yeards out directly in front of goal, feels the need to try and control it again rather than kick it into the net. Then they both just seemed to give up as soon as they got knackered...which was also a fair while before anyone else on the pitch. The pair of them were infuriating.
Other moans:
Why is the first time we name an unchanged league team in years, also the first time in years that we play a game less than 48 hours after our last one finished? Is this an intelligent thing to do? Then after the game, tiredness was insinuated as being some kind of unavoidable handicap. Righto...
How come when Spurs realised we had no midfield and started pressing our centrebacks, we responded by just acting as if there was nothing we could possibly do about it...nah, we wont move Rooney or Mata back so we can actually play out, or starting playing more direct so we can still attack, we'll just carry on doing exactly the same thing even though it means the entire second half is played on the edge of our own box.
It would be nice if we could go just one game without dedicating a significant portion of it to punching ourselves in the face with our own tactics.
Falcao can't seem to control a football to save his life, which is a slightly significant problem. Van Persie could control it fine but then, even when he's literally 4 yeards out directly in front of goal, feels the need to try and control it again rather than kick it into the net. Then they both just seemed to give up as soon as they got knackered...which was also a fair while before anyone else on the pitch. The pair of them were infuriating.
Other moans:
Why is the first time we name an unchanged league team in years, also the first time in years that we play a game less than 48 hours after our last one finished? Is this an intelligent thing to do? Then after the game, tiredness was insinuated as being some kind of unavoidable handicap. Righto...
How come when Spurs realised we had no midfield and started pressing our centrebacks, we responded by just acting as if there was nothing we could possibly do about it...nah, we wont move Rooney or Mata back so we can actually play out, or starting playing more direct so we can still attack, we'll just carry on doing exactly the same thing even though it means the entire second half is played on the edge of our own box.
It would be nice if we could go just one game without dedicating a significant portion of it to punching ourselves in the face with our own tactics.
100% spot on.
That's just wrong. It doesn't matter what you do for a living or how much you earn - two football games within 48 hours is just too much for the human body and doesn't allow it to perform to the best of its abilities.
It's hardly as if we haven't seen plenty of evidence of fatigue in the past when United played three games a week. It happened.
I don't think our finishing was unlucky at all. It was just piss poor. Competent strikers would have had us two or three up at the break, and even in the second half RVP wasted a really good chance, and Mata an even better one (though in fairness I thought Mata had an excellent game aside from that).
The fatigue was definitely a big factor in the second half, but what was a bigger handicap was trying to play out from the back after Spurs put two people high up the pitch specifically to stop us from being able to, without changing our system. They looked at it at half time and changed to stifle us...we then didn't react at all. This happens a LOT in our games and it's nearly always this exact same thing. Chelsea, Everton, West Ham, Southampton, Spurs, City, etc. etc. have all got at us in exactly the same way and we never, ever react to it or change what we're doing. We end up with half our team stood up the pitch doing nothing for 30 minute+ spells of the game.
Also, the fatigue. It's all well and good pointing it out...but we went and named the same team that started less than two days earlier. No one forced us to do that. Again, it's to a certain extent a self created problem, so to then insinuate it as an excuse as Van Gaal appeared to is slightly confusing. It was a concious gamble, not an unavoidable problem...it would probably have paid off even, if our strikers were on song.
Still, if we beat Stoke today becomes a good result with Arsenal and Southampton having to play each other.
Did anyone else realise that some of us get quoted from this thread in the MEN? Kind of cool to be honest.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ll-news/tottenham-0-0-man-united-what-8351885
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ll-news/tottenham-0-0-man-united-what-8351885
The performance and result were OK given that it was an unchanged team that had played 43 hours before. If all players were fit we would have seen some rotation and a stronger second half performance.
Having Rafael and Shaw back on the field is a big plus 'cos it means a return to a back 4 is an option.
Next up: get the midfield fit (Di Maria, Fellaini, Blind, Herrera).
Having Rafael and Shaw back on the field is a big plus 'cos it means a return to a back 4 is an option.
Next up: get the midfield fit (Di Maria, Fellaini, Blind, Herrera).
There's so many things wrong with that post, I can't be bothered to pick them all.
That part is frustrating but i think LVG is waiting for the return of Blind to fix it. For whatever reason Carrick in midfield rarely gets back far enough to plug that gap and relieve the pressure, which is something that Blind always does. There were times yesterday when Carrick and Rooney were half a field away from our defence.
i can understand we wanted to continue the good play against newCastle so we made the same lineup, but this is really harsh to play 2 high intensive games within 48 hours. probably we should arrange certain rotation especially for the rooney & mata positions. i could have rested one of rooney & robin also. so maybe we should have benched mata & rvp and could start the game with wilson & fletcher at all. mata or rvp can come up in the 2nd half if things not gone to our way.
it doesn't mean the rotation can help take down this game definitely, but at least this would give us a better position in the next game at stoke at all. now we are having another dilemma whether to line up the same at stoke.
it doesn't mean the rotation can help take down this game definitely, but at least this would give us a better position in the next game at stoke at all. now we are having another dilemma whether to line up the same at stoke.
Nobody had us down for taking all 9 points from these 3 matches.
Of the three opponents, everyone here acknowledged that Tottenham would be the toughest.
We did enough to deserve victory over Spurs, but poor finishing let us down. De Gea was never seriously bothered.
We should be able to dispatch Stoke fairly easily, and if we don't then moaning would be very much in order.
And if we do indeed bugger Stoke, taking 7 of the 9 points from these matches will actually look to be pretty decent work.
Of the three opponents, everyone here acknowledged that Tottenham would be the toughest.
We did enough to deserve victory over Spurs, but poor finishing let us down. De Gea was never seriously bothered.
We should be able to dispatch Stoke fairly easily, and if we don't then moaning would be very much in order.
And if we do indeed bugger Stoke, taking 7 of the 9 points from these matches will actually look to be pretty decent work.
Excellent first half with terrible finishing.
Shockingly bad second half, with terrible finishing.
2 points dropped, really.
Shockingly bad second half, with terrible finishing.
2 points dropped, really.
I'm sure if Herrera, Fellaini, ADM, Januzaj were available, we'd probably have seen a slightly different team yesterday. As it was, what other options were there? Evans apparently got a niggle, and we had a choice of Fletcher and Perreira on the bench to reinforce midfield - one's past it, and it would have been a bit much to throw Andreas in to a tight match for his debut.
We've had much worse games this season. You're always gonna get these kind of games where you create a lot and can't score. Finishing hasn't been a problem for us at all this season so I'm not worried about that. Also Spurs looked quite poor so not worried about them finishing above us this season either
For a player of his ability Mata is abysmal with his right foot. He's as bad as Valencia on his weak side, the only different is Valencia won't even try to use his left.
For a player of his ability Mata is abysmal with his right foot. He's as bad as Valencia on his weak side, the only different is Valencia won't even try to use his left.
It's painful to watch how much we miss Fellaini against teams that press our defenders, forcing De Gea to hit it long. The amount of those passes that Fellaini was able to retain for us was ridiculous compared to now, when De Gea punts it upfield and the opposition simply regains possession, and our players having to bust their gut to win it back.
The first half was one of the better halves I've seen since the last time we won the tittle. Too bad we couldn't finish.
The second half was painful to watch. Fellaini would have been handy.
The second half was painful to watch. Fellaini would have been handy.
I don't think we would have played as well in the first half with Fellaini starting, but he would have been useful to bring on in the second to relieve some pressure. Unfortunate our bench was never going to make an impact.
The exact same thing was happening when Blind was in the team though
Unlucky to drop 2 points.
And the mere fact that we now regard not getting 3 points away at Spurs, a rival for a top 4 place, as unlucky shows just how far we have come since the arrival of LVG. We were outstanding for the first 45 minutes and on another day could've been out of sight. Shame with both above us dropping points.
Nailed on for third but there could be a twist or two to come yet. Some prudent shopping in the window allied with an easing of our injury worries and a squad getting more and more familiar with each other by the day = exciting times.
The whining in here is hysterical.
And the mere fact that we now regard not getting 3 points away at Spurs, a rival for a top 4 place, as unlucky shows just how far we have come since the arrival of LVG. We were outstanding for the first 45 minutes and on another day could've been out of sight. Shame with both above us dropping points.
Nailed on for third but there could be a twist or two to come yet. Some prudent shopping in the window allied with an easing of our injury worries and a squad getting more and more familiar with each other by the day = exciting times.
The whining in here is hysterical.
Spurs have brought in so many players but most of them looked average yesterday.
Despite it being Spurs at the lane and it not being an easy place to go I think we should consider this as two points dropped considering we were by far the better team and missed some very good chances to score.
Some defenders will always boot it upfield when under pressure - theyre the players who wont make it here under LVG. Blind gave options though and some of our players did take it. Not saying hes perfect but the gap between defence and midfield was never as big with him there.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but not playing out was down to decision making from the back 3. They had options on most occasions but opted to hoof it long rather than play out under pressure. We will continually struggle until we change the defence (and i mean personnel). None of them are either good enough, nor confident enough, to play out under pressure - and LVG knows it.
That said, our forwards are paid that money to take half chances nevermind some of the easy chances they had in the first half. We should have won the game dead and simple.
It was. Watch the second half of the Chelsea game again, as a random example. He'd pick up the ball then have to give it straight back to one of the centrebacks.
The problem isn't Carrick or Blind. It's trying to play out slowly from the back with a system that doesn't incorporate a midfield. All the opposition have to do is put two players high up the pitch and have their midfield press up behind them, and it takes most of our team out of the game.
As soon as teams do this, we should either be going more direct, playing a lot quicker, or dropping someone back to help Carrick/Blind so they don't have to give the ball back to the defence or try to play a pass through half the opposition team.
Instead we never seem to react to it at all. We seem determined to prove that our defenders can knock the ball around better than the likes of Xavi, Scholes, etc. It's never going to happen.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
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16%
Ashley Young
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8%
David de Gea
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6%
Michael Carrick
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4%
Phil Jones
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4%
Wayne Rooney
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1%
Radamel Falcao
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1%
Paddy McNair
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 452 ratings.
Score Predictions
306,33,70
- Man Utd win
- Tottenham win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 38% Tottenham 1:2 Man Utd
- 11% Tottenham 1:3 Man Utd
- 8% Tottenham 2:2 Man Utd
- 8% Tottenham 1:1 Man Utd
- 7% Tottenham 0:2 Man Utd
- 5% Tottenham 0:1 Man Utd
- 5% Tottenham 2:1 Man Utd
- 4% Tottenham 2:3 Man Utd
- 3% Tottenham 0:3 Man Utd
- 2% Tottenham 1:4 Man Utd
- 2% Tottenham 2:4 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 0:5 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 3:1 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 0:0 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 5:0 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 0:4 Man Utd
- 1% Tottenham 1:0 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 2:5 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 3:0 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 2:0 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 3:3 Man Utd
- 0% Tottenham 4:0 Man Utd
Match Stats
- Tottenham
- Man Utd
- Possession
- 48% 52%
- Shots
- 9 9
- Shots on Target
- 4 5
- Corners
- 3 6
- Fouls
- 11 19
Referee
Jonathan Moss
Man Utd Lineup
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replaced by Rafael
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replaced by Luke Shaw
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replaced by Chris Smalling
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