[DomesticTadpole]

What is pogba's 2 central partners? a clumsy oaf playing next to him, and a player once again performing awfully, I thought maybe jose has got the best out of rooney in a way scoring creating goals, but its back to square one. When people said david moyes has set us back they were not kidding, his lasting lingering legacy rear its ugly head again, rooney getting that contract extension, fellaini playing who is not a CM player. The club also has a thing for very slow players in our team, fellaini, mata, rooney and zlaten in one team. I still have hope Jose can turn this around we have to, because if Jose can't turn this around, who the hell can?

It was a three, but he chose the wrong partners for him. Carrick/Blind and Herrera would have been better. I know people line Fellaini, but all he offers is his size. Not good enough. Pogba needs energy and some discipline next to him, because Pogba does not have discipline.

 

[Giggs86]

People who thought this team was gonna compete for the title just like that may get an eye opener. The club has a disease, it has nothing to do with throwing money at it nor changing managers. Something is truly wrong at Man Utd and I have no idea what it is. Maybe this is karma for all those years of success under SAF.....

It's not karma, it's just the fact that we had the best manager in the history of the game.

 

[kouroux]

It's not karma, it's just the fact that we had the best manager in the history of the game.

Just trying to find an irrational explanation now that nothing rational seem to be making sense....

 

[bleedred]

Stop the world, I want to get off.

It took Louis five matches into the season before we unraveled at Leicester. I expected a much longer honeymoon under Jose.

Erm..He lost one and drew 2 other and the only win was against QPR.

 

[VorZakone]

I thought Pereyra looked decent for Watford. Seems a smart player.

 

[Bole Top]

I thought Pereyra looked decent for Watford. Seems a smart player.

it's obvious he could play for better clubs than Watford. he had the most appearances for Juve in that season in which they reached the CL final.

 

[Giggs86]

Just trying to find an irrational explanation now that nothing rational seem to be making sense....

I hear ya. It's like Rocky 3, the players need a fecking psychiatrist at this point. Mou with Pep and Ancelotti as his assistants won't even help them at this point.

 

[Suedesi]

How is this not on Mourinho?

Did someone else decide to keep playing Rooney, and did someone else decide to give Carrick a new deal and proceed to prefer the immense technical and playmaking abilities of Fellaini in the holding role instead? Isn't it fecking common sense that if you play a destroyer at DM then your creative midfielder will always have to drop deep alongside him to provide composure and build-up play and so the gaps are always huge between midfield and attack? How can you only play two in midfield in such a situation?

Who's responsible for implementing a dominating style of play and drilling it into the players as quickly as possible?

Forget Guardiola and City if you want. Look at Tuchel and recall his early impact at Dortmund after the horror of Klopp's final season. An impact that is proving to be time-proof and sustainable.

But the manager who has managed in this country before and knows the league inside-out, needs time and patience to settle and get us going?

How can some of you fall for this bullshit? It's insulting to expect other fans to buy into it, really.

Totally agree mate. So far I see no clear pattern of play, this is not playing as a United team. I didn't expect that right away because Mourinho has always been a reactive rather than a proactive coach, defensive rather than offensive, safety first rather than we'll score one more than you manager.

However, what I absolutely didn't expect is how badly he's managed the squad. Says Rooney will not play in midfield, and then 4-5 games later is playing exactly there while looking like a pub player. Mkhitaryan didn't play the first couple of games, gets injured with Armenia, then immediately proceeds to start against City while appearing unfit. Same with Lingard, who came off an injury. Blind gets blamed for City's goals, gets benched and in comes Smalling to partner Bailly, and both look worse in the process. Martial looks half the player he used to be. Schneiderlin or Herrera get benched in favor of the cultured foot of Fellaini. Pogba looks a shadow of himself and clearly Jose doesn't know what to do with him.

WHAT THE FECK!?

 

[VorZakone]

it's obvious he could play for better clubs than Watford. he had the most appearances for Juve in that season in which they reached the CL final.

On the flipside, playing week in week out as a star player could be a good start for him in the PL. Still only 25.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Why do we keep giving away so many cheap free kicks in dangerous areas while getting so few at the other end? (This is a theme I have seen for the past year.)

 

[marlowe78]

Totally agree mate. So far I see no clear pattern of play, this is not playing as a United team. I didn't expect that right away because Mourinho has always been a reactive rather than a proactive coach, defensive rather than offensive, safety first rather than we'll score one more than you manager.

However, what I absolutely didn't expect is how badly he's managed the squad. Says Rooney will not play in midfield, and then 4-5 games later is playing exactly there while looking like a pub player. Mkhitaryan didn't play the first couple of games, gets injured with Armenia, then immediately proceeds to start against City while appearing unfit. Same with Lingard, who came off an injury. Blind gets blamed for City's goals, gets benched and in comes Smalling to partner Bailly, and both look worse in the process. Martial looks half the player he used to be. Schneiderlin or Herrera get benched in favor of the cultured foot of Fellaini. Pogba looks a shadow of himself and clearly Jose doesn't know what to do with him.

WHAT THE FECK!?

It seems like Jose totally shat himself in the days of preparation leading up to the City match and hasn't recovered from it. We weren't particularly good in the games leading up to that, but it looked like we had a starting point from which to improve. That lineup for the City match looked like somebody who was afraid of everything that could be done to him by the opposition (Pep) and went with a lineup simply because he ran out of time to keep pondering over it.

Now there's the continuation of this nonsense from the City match, playing without any aggression to start the game. If Feyenoord and Watford are supposedly so much inferior to us, how about we try to show that and look to hit them hard from the beginning?

The player selection as you mentioned is spot on, I don't see the logic in a lot of the decisions he's making. I agreed with the people who said earlier that Bailly and Blind should kept as the CB pairing, I don't understanding why Smalling is back in. The idea of using Pogba, a world record signing, in such a compromised position is quite ridiculous.

I'm not trying to write him off, he obviously has the experience to fix these kinds of problems but he already wasn't able to stop the bleeding last season at Chelsea. Things can turn really ugly in the league matches coming up.

 

[sebsheep]

It seems so odd that Mourinho is talking about wanting the players to press because we have barely seen it in our games. We only really pressed against City in the 2nd half and there was no pressing against Feyernord or today. Surely it can't be that difficult to understand? City and Liverpool both press very high rather than edging closer to sitting in the stand behind their goals. Are we just picking the wrong players to implement it and if so why are we still picking them?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It seems so odd that Mourinho is talking about wanting the players to press because we have barely seen it in our games. We only really pressed against City in the 2nd half and there was no pressing against Feyernord or today. Surely it can't be that difficult to understand? City and Liverpool both press very high rather than edging closer to sitting in the stand behind their goals. Are we just picking the wrong players to implement it and if so why are we still picking them?

Herrera came from a club who pressed, so maybe we just don't have enough players who can do that to play alongside him.

 

[Shiva87]

Herrera came from a club who pressed, so maybe we just don't have enough players who can do that to play alongside him.

So the solution is to not play Hererra? Absurd, isn't it

 

[DomesticTadpole]

So the solution is to not play Hererra? Absurd, isn't it

Really stupid, at least have someone who puts the other team under pressure when they have the ball.

 

[Turnip]

I really aren't a fellini fan, almost always he simply cannot play football anywhere near well enough to be at this club, but today he did his job effectively, he constantly disrupted their attacks, so I don't have much to complain about with him. But Pogba was basically marked out of the game, because they don't even need to mark rooney, when he's got the ball, he takes so long to do something that someone has time to come away from pogba and close him down, as a result we just couldn't mount an attack between us.

It's such simple.problem that Jose should have done something about it, which for most of the second half he did and did and it was different to be fair, but still not enough, he was afraid to take pogba and rooney off.

The other thing is rashford and martial were both missing for almost the whole match. Rash ford needs to.play up front, he's not an effective winger, and martial needs to be on the left or up front for the same reason (pity he was clearly dazed by that header).

For me this is down to Jose, he's scared to give rashford the responsibility that comes with the position he needs and scared to drop pogba or rooney. Ibra talks about pep having no balls, Jose seems the same from what I've seen.

 

[roykeane19]

Despite the awful result, that goal where they scored after fouling Martial, was a clear as day foul. And the penalty they got, I seen the replay, the guy dived with little contact, he had a small contact, and after leg had gone, he took a step, and then jumped up on both legs to throw himself to the ground to get the penalty

And yes we played shit, but those 2 goals shouldnt have happened in the first place

 

[CS@SG]

Herrera came from a club who pressed, so maybe we just don't have enough players who can do that to play alongside him.

You mean, after 2 years of LVG, the players still cannot have the basic ideas of pressing? Are our players really so dumb?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You mean, after 2 years of LVG, the players still cannot have the basic ideas of pressing? Are our players really so dumb?

Either that or they don't have the energy. Could you imagine Rooney doing it now. Fellaini, Carrick. It is a sapping way to play.

 

[tomaldinho1]

So the solution is to not play Hererra? Absurd, isn't it

I feel Herrera is kept out because Mou is aware how many goals we conceded from set pieces last year - Fellaini is tall, that s about it

 

[CS@SG]

Either that or they don't have the energy. Could you imagine Rooney doing it now. Fellaini, Carrick. It is a sapping way to play.

Actually, I have a question, that keeps me very confused. So, Jose wants his players to press, or not press? I keep reading some said Jose doesn't press, he wants his players to sit, do not allow opponents to get into good positions. But now he talks about pressing?

 

[mitchmouse]

Very very poor - from the players and the manager. For me, only Luke Shaw came out of this with any credit. Pogba is fast beginning to be as useful to us as Bebe! We she only other answer is to drop Rooney which I'm sure would make loads of haters here cream their pants but that would be wasting a good player. Pogba/ with Fellaini simply doesn't work - we looked great at Bournemouth when that wasn't the line up. As for the defence, well how can a club like Manhester United still be using wingers as full backs? At times it was a total shambles and from the moment Bailly went flying in and missed a straightforward tackle and went flying back like a headless chicken, I turned to my mate and said they'd get a penalty (although it ended up not being him who lost his head). Almost nothing going forward - we seem to be relying on Zlatan to score a miracle goal each week. This is hte fthird game running we have not created a clear-cut chance. And as soon as I saw who was referring, I knew my worst fears would come true. He was dreadful too

 

[Yorkeontop]

"We started the season very well and had good results. I feel the first moment we had a defeat, a difficult situation, some of the boys are having a bit of difficulty coping with the negativity," Mourinho said.

That's rather worrying and plays to the narrative that our some of our players are rather mentally weak. This goes all the way back to that Leicester 5-3 game.

 

[Oneunited26]

It was a three, but he chose the wrong partners for him. Carrick/Blind and Herrera would have been better. I know people line Fellaini, but all he offers is his size. Not good enough. Pogba needs energy and some discipline next to him, because Pogba does not have discipline.

I really think we should try blind has the anchor man, play pogba and herrera together, and have them 2 support our front 3. But rooney is finished, but? like one said above, for me I think there is a weak mentality within this dressing room, or something aint right, because it feels like a curse that is so bad no one can correct it

In an ideal world it would be

Blind
Pogba herrera
rashford zlaten martial

But instead we playing technically awful players, to technically awful players past it, and they're both each side of Pogba

 

[Nytram Shakes]

The team we put out today had:

• 3 players wanting to play centre forward,
• A striker wanting to play in midfield.
• Two attack minded midfielders been asked to cover defensive midfield duties, because we stupidly weren't playing one!
• A centre back pairing who have hardly played together.

We put this team out against a well organised Watford side with a coherent game plan.....

We got spanked! Deservedly so!

 

[sportsczy]

Pogba just has to adjust... his teammates are far less good both tactically and technically than Juve. Just as an example, he's used to Pirlo then Marchisio playing the deep CM role and getting him the ball. The forward that dezoned to combine with him were Tevez and then Dybala. The fullbacks are Evra and Lichsteiner. The defense is Bonucci, Barzagli and Chielini.

Juventus is better at every position across the board other than CF with Ibrahimovic.

France NT is absolutely loaded too.

With Man Utd, the technical ability of players is abysmal. He can't look for his teammates to combine with or to make the correct runs. Pogba has to almost ignore what "should" happen in terms of movement around him and just go. The only one he can anticipate is Ibra right now. That's it.

It will take time. It's hard to play on a great team and then go to one where most players are not very good.

 

[gerdm07]

When Mourinho was hired I complained about a few things and now this match reminded of another issue I've never like about his clubs. All of his teams, when losing, complain about the referee. It's one reason why I hated Chelsea. If a game was tight or they were losing, every call was argued and then, after the loss or draw, one of the main reasons for the bad result was always to fault the referee.

I was sort of embarrassed about our team towards the end of this match. I put this attitude on the manager.

I watched some of the City match yesterday and was struck by how many times they passed up a good opportunity to cross the ball into the box. Then I watched our match and it seemed every opportunity we made the cross. Yes, we have a big CF and should utilize that strength; however, I think we go way overboard with crosses. Add to the fact that Rooney and Valencia are crossing the ball should suggest their might be a better way.

 

[Sereques]

For me, Fellaini should not be playing DM, give that spot to Herrera or Schneiderlin and drop Rooney FFS. But this should put things in perspective for the folks that wanted Jose in December.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

I like the fact that we have three home games after Northampton away. I think we'll see the team pick up a bit of form over the next ten days or so. A bumpy start with some poor performances, but very early days yet.

 

[ThaReaper01]

It's time to batten down the hatches and start grinding out some 1-nil's. No more of this monkey business.

 

[togg]

Despite the awful result, that goal where they scored after fouling Martial, was a clear as day foul. And the penalty they got, I seen the replay, the guy dived with little contact, he had a small contact, and after leg had gone, he took a step, and then jumped up on both legs to throw himself to the ground to get the penalty

And yes we played shit, but those 2 goals shouldnt have happened in the first place

But that happens in football...this was Watford for goodness sake....we've spent what, some 300 million over the last couple of years....we should hop over those bad decisions and still be scoring with goals ahead to spare. I mean...Watford.......!!

 

[sportsczy]

The reason that I bring this up is that almost all the time... Pogba gets the ball, makes a move, looks up... and you see him hesitate. That's because he expects certain action around him and it's not there. So he ends up hesitating because he has to re-assess everything.

Other than Ibra, none of these players are used to the truly elite level of football and everything that goes with it. You could say Rooney... but he's no longer at that level and doesn't make the movements.

 

[Skywarden]

The reason that I bring this up is that almost all the time... Pogba gets the ball, makes a move, looks up... and you see him hesitate. That's because he expects certain action around him and it's not there. So he ends up hesitating because he has to re-assess everything.

Other than Ibra, none of these players are used to the truly elite level of football and everything that goes with it. You could say Rooney... but he's no longer at that level and doesn't make the movements.

This isn't something new. It is why we do the simple thing and pass it wide and pray for a good cross - which of course rarely happens. We don't have the nr.10 to thread balls behind the defence (the closest we came to this notion was a deep pass by Fellaini to Ibra whose header was saved by Gomes). In the second half, we saw Young and Mata try to run behind the defenders but whoever was on the ball were too slow to pick them up - a sign of absolute no cohesion.

Until Rooney scores his four goals to overtake Charlton as the historical top-scorer and can firmly be dropped, we'll continue to see these performances.

This is Dortmund from Yesterday. Can anyone imagine any of our players threading a ball like that? They knew what to do and did it patiently from the moment Kagawa released the ball. It's just so effective and well-executed.

 

[KirkDuyt]

How will United ever create anything when the build up from the back is done by Smalling, Bailley and Felaini. Sure against teams like City or Bayern Munich you might want to park a bus and hoof it forward, but against Watford just play Blind next to either Bailley or Smalling. There's just no football in the team like this, none.

 

[Bilbo]

This isn't a Mourinho team. Not even close. He is trying too hard to make the team he thinks we want, rather than play to his own strengths.

These three results should not be a surprise to amybody. If you let opponents get at your back four time and time and time again there is a high likelihood that you'll concede chances, give away goals, and lose matches.

Oddly enough we hired Mr Rigid Team Shape but we get the opposite. Gaping holes. 11 strangers on a pitch. No real sign of a plan here. Difficult to use the 'needs more time' excuse when Pep has our rivals whipped into shape in no time at all. Mourinho needs to go back to what he knows.

Carrick needs to be reintroduced immediately. He'll plug that giant hole in midfield and we'll look twice the team.

Rooney must be dropped. His confidence is shot. I don't think he is finished but at the moment he is holding the team back. Get him a head doctor and take half a stone off him - see what happens.

In our defence I do believe it will take some time to wean these players off of the robotic system we had last season. We have a LOT of quality here though. If we are still being troubled this much by the likes of Watford in 4 months time then we will have every right to be questioning what is going on

 

[matherto]

However, what I absolutely didn't expect is how badly he's managed the squad. Says Rooney will not play in midfield, and then 4-5 games later is playing exactly there while looking like a pub player. Mkhitaryan didn't play the first couple of games, gets injured with Armenia, then immediately proceeds to start against City while appearing unfit. Same with Lingard, who came off an injury. Blind gets blamed for City's goals, gets benched and in comes Smalling to partner Bailly, and both look worse in the process. Martial looks half the player he used to be. Schneiderlin or Herrera get benched in favor of the cultured foot of Fellaini. Pogba looks a shadow of himself and clearly Jose doesn't know what to do with him.

WHAT THE FECK!?

When he fell out with the players at Madrid something changed in him and I don't believe he's gotten it back. There were stories of players at Chelsea/Inter that would run through walls for him and cried when he left and since Madrid I just don't think he knows how to treat the players properly any more.

Plus Rooney, just Rooney. I'm gonna say it in every post now even if it's none United/none football chat. Get the feck out of our fecking club.

 

[montpelier]

Despite the awful result, that goal where they scored after fouling Martial, was a clear as day foul. And the penalty they got, I seen the replay, the guy dived with little contact, he had a small contact, and after leg had gone, he took a step, and then jumped up on both legs to throw himself to the ground to get the penalty

And yes we played shit, but those 2 goals shouldnt have happened in the first place

I thought the penalty was soft but that it also looked very much like a penalty. The non FK was an outright terrible decision.

Interesting that most folks still don't think we actually lost BECAUSE of Oliver. It does rather show how completely poor we were don't you think? (you do say we were shit, tbf)

 

[golden_blunder]

"We started the season very well and had good results. I feel the first moment we had a defeat, a difficult situation, some of the boys are having a bit of difficulty coping with the negativity," Mourinho said.

That's rather worrying and plays to the narrative that our some of our players are rather mentally weak. This goes all the way back to that Leicester 5-3 game.

Lvg broke them mentally, they're afraid to play football. Only cure is booting half the team out and starting again

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Today isn't that much of a suprise. We are shit and have been for some time. Too many managers, too many players. We have lost our aura, and you can't just get that back overnight not matter who is in charge and how much you throw at it.

We still haven't built a team and continue to shoehorn Rooney into the side even though he is past it. Even with a change of manager not much is different, we still start games in 1st gear, rarely create chances and invite pressure onto ourselves with stupid mistakes.

For all the money we have spent there are glaring issues in defence and midfield, two of our most experienced players in Carrick and Schweine are seemingly fit yet cast to one side, and not given an opportunity to play alongside a tactically inept Pogba.

Yet City seem to have found their flow already, have a style of football that pisses on ours.

 

[mattsville]

There was no urgency or desire in the team for the most part, bar Fellaini, Rashford and occasionally Shaw, everything was done too slow, movement in midfield and up front was zero, no penetration or timed runs, Bailly looked like a non league player, there was no cohesion, they were limited but every player on our bench was better than everything they had on the pitch but they had desire and fight and did their respective tasks and benefited from our lack of the same and the inevitable mistakes that came from the way we played, why that happened I don't know, but having started with 3 wins confidence should be high, we should not be talking of turning things around, there was nothing to turn around after winning 3 games, now there is confusion and concern, time to see what the manager is really made of.