[Irish_Red]

@Irish_Red
More of our wins have come with a comfortable 2 goal plus margin than a nervy 1 goal win.
If you want to argue facts then I suggest
A) Look up the definition of fact
B)Look up our results

Did Tottenham have a shot on target at Old Trafford? Don't get this nervy theme. It's as if people associate conversing possession with it despite the fact when we dominated possession under LvG the same people were furious about not doing anything with it!

Very odd.

We didn't park the bus against Tottenham. We had 45% posession, we had 11 shots to their 13 (most of theirs coming from long range), 624 touches of the ball to their 719, we had less clearances of the ball too, 30 to their 33. It was an evenly matched game where their only proper chance all game was the Alli header. That's completely ignoring when we hit the post etc. We didn't park the bus and I didn't find that game nervy at all, their chances were all reduced to hopeful shots from range mostly.

Swansea was still a match. Whether or not we were fantastic at Benfica means feck all, that wasn't your original point. There's a difference between being comfortable and being fantastic.

Also once again I don't agree. Our last 10 games were: Benfica, Huddersfield, Swansea, Tottenham, Benfica, Chelsea, Newcastle, Basel, Brighton, Watford.

Of those games - Benfica was comfortable, Huddersfield was terrible, Swansea was comfortable, Tottenham was comfortable, Benfica was comfortable, Chelsea was terrible (at a stadium we never do well at, honestly when was the last time we won there?), Newcastle was comfortable, Basel was terrible, Brighton was meh and Watford was (except for a parts of the second half when we were obviously conserving energy) - comfortable. That's 6 of 10 being comfortable - also keeping in mind for more than half of those we didn't even have our best player.

Whether or not you find fans who think we've been good over the past 10 games is irrelevant, there's a difference between being great and being comfortable.

We didn't park the bus against Tottenham. We had 45% posession, we had 11 shots to their 13 (just about all of theirs coming from long range), 624 touches of the ball to their 719, we had less clearances of the ball too, 30 to their 33. It was an evenly matched game where their only proper chance all game was the Alli header. That's completely ignoring when we hit the post etc. We didn't park the bus and I didn't find that game nervy at all, their chances were all reduced to hopeful shots from range mostly.

Swansea was still a match. Whether or not we were fantastic at Benfica means feck all, that wasn't your original point. There's a difference between being comfortable and being fantastic.

Also once again I don't agree. Our last 10 games were: Benfica, Huddersfield, Swansea, Tottenham, Benfica, Chelsea, Newcastle, Basel, Brighton, Watford.

Of those games - Benfica was comfortable, Huddersfield was terrible, Swansea was comfortable, Tottenham was comfortable, Benfica was comfortable, Chelsea was terrible (at a stadium we never do well at, honestly when was the last time we won there?), Newcastle was comfortable, Basel was terrible, Brighton was meh and Watford was (except for a parts of the second half when we were obviously conserving energy) - comfortable. That's 6 of 10 being comfortable - also keeping in mind for more than half of those we didn't even have our best player.

Whether or not you find fans who think we've been good over the past 10 games is irrelevant, there's a difference between being great and being comfortable.

From the last ten matches that mattered, not including the league cup. I cannot accept we were comfortable against Brighton. Every man and his dog on here and on motd agreed we were extremely fortunate to win with a deflected goal and by no stretch of the imagination were we comfortable and playing good football against Watford.

Thats 7/10 we haven't played well in. Hell if it was 5/10 I still think people would be entitled to ask why we weren't playing some better football. This simple point is my original and only point.
With the mediocre to poor football we are playing in long patches lately ( including 45 mins plus today) people are entitled to ask questions.
Debate is the purpose of this forum, not mocking opinions that find issue with certain aspects of this club.
We all love to see United win (bar the incumbent City fans on here). We equally would love to see United reach it's massive potential once again, hence the heated arguments as to how we should go about this task from time to time!

 

[Sad Chris]

You don't see many top teams parking the bus to win 1-0 and saying it was anything but nervy.

So being defensively solid and winning fully deserved against a Top-6 team makes you nervous?

 

[Womp]

Our last


From the last ten matches that mattered, not including the league cup. I cannot accept we were comfortable against Brighton. Every man and his dog on here and on motd agreed we were extremely fortunate to win with a deflected goal and by no stretch of the imagination were we comfortable and playing good football against Watford.

Thats 7/10 we haven't played well in. Hell if it was 5/10 I still think people would be entitled to ask why we weren't playing some better football. This simple point is my original and only point.
With the mediocre to poor football we are playing in long patches lately ( including 45 mins plus today) people are entitled to ask questions.
Debate is the purpose of this forum, not mocking opinions that find issue with certain aspects of this club.
We all love to see United win (bar the incumbent City fans on here). We equally would love to see United reach it's massive potential once again, hence the heated arguments as to how we should go about this task from time to time!

I didn't say we were comfortable against Brighton, I said 'meh'. How the feck were we not comfortable against Watford? We were 3-0 up at half time then took off some our players and lowered the intensity to avoid injuries/fatigue. We conceded two but then raised the intensity a little more and killed the game off. We have some huge games coming up, one of which is in a few days, we can't risk running players into the ground against a team like Watford, with no disrespect to them.

Where are you getting these numbers? 7/10? Even if we ignore the Swansea game and instead focus on the Liverpool game, (purely to try and support your odd argument) that's still 5/10 games where we were comfortable. Completely ignoring the fact that these were some of the hardest games we'll play this season, at stadiums we never play well at, whilst not having our best player available. We have always been shit at SB, we were shit there most of the time under SAF too - with title winning teams may I add.

 

[Irish_Red]

@TheReligion @cyberman @Womp ah apologies for the overquoting in the last post. Trying to access the caf on android can be a nightmare. I can't even edit it now!

Just to get back on point, I appreciate that we have picked up some extremely important results and massive credit should go to Mourinho for that. We are without doubt the strongest we have been since Fergie left.

In the interests of constant improvement however I and a lot of posters feel that there are certainly elements of our build up and attacking play in particular that could easily be improved and make us a forced to be feared again.

 

[Regalia]

Good win today, but annoyed that we let Watford back into the game. We seem to have had this 'downing tools after leading' affliction for the past 5-6 years now and I just don't understand it. That being said, Watford rallied in the 2nd half and actually played well, so it's great that we won.

As much whining as there has been about Jose's 'negative' tactics (and I admit, we don't look the most fluid footballing unit out on the pitch), United are 2nd with a goal tally behind only a Man City team performing at the very pinnacle of their abilities. We have had lackluster performances and crappy losses but I feel many here don't understand that our manager is here to MANAGE the team. Every aspect of it. It's not just about picking players and a formation like in FM. He is the man supposed to get us through tough runs of games, losses of form, or injuries to key players like Pogba, in whatever way he sees best. And that may involve playing conservatively to avoid losses when a key player is out so confidence for the rest of the team doesn't just go to shit (just an example).

He is also supposed to utilize every individual player to the best that their capabilities will allow and I'm definitely going to trust his judgment of a player's ability than that of anyone on this forum. It's no coincidence that our 'world class' players (De Gea, Pogba) are the ones most often looking world class, and the ones who aren't that good, well...just aren't that good (just comparatively, we obviously have good players).

Just saying, it's not as simple as "oh, we need to attack more because the best teams in the world are supposed to attack lots". Spurs are an example of a team going through a rough patch right now and let's see how the team and their manager handle it. According to some people here, they've got the right 'attacking mentality' and 'good football', so it shouldn't be that hard to bounce back. With Pogba's recent 6-week absence, the fact that we are still the only team 'in touch' with City after that shows that something at least is going right behind the scenes.

 

[Womp]

@TheReligion @cyberman @Womp ah apologies for the overquoting in the last post. Trying to access the caf on android can be a nightmare. I can't even edit it now!

Just to get back on point, I appreciate that we have picked up some extremely important results and massive credit should go to Mourinho for that. We are without doubt the strongest we have been since Fergie left.

In the interests of constant improvement however I and a lot of posters feel that there are certainly elements of our build up and attacking play in particular that could easily be improved and make us a forced to be feared again.

Which is fine mate, no problem. There's a difference between being nervy and being brilliant though. We've improved leaps and bounds this season and have had one of the best starts we've ever had to a PL season, all the while playing some very difficult games (away from home to Liverpool and Chelsea is never easy) without our best player. Not to add, there are still areas in the squad where we will need to improve - mainly fullbacks, a right sided attacker and possibly a number 10. We most likely won't win the PL this season, but our football and our performances are improving and given the 5-6 years of bullshit we've had to endure, I'm happy to see genuine progress.

 

[MrBest]

Expected us to drop points in this game, unless your City, Watford are brilliant at home.

Lindolf is looking much more settled, smalling also made some great tackles and young was everywhere (before the 70th min). We then lost matic to injury and the game changed. Jose then subbed martial and game changed again. These were the crucial points for me because before that we were comfortable now playing well and Watford were not creating much, was just a passing drill for them.

I'm pretty sick of lukaku at the moment. Ball bounces off him, loses the ball to often, expects the ball at his feet and nothing is working out. Think he needs a rest too. I would drop him for arsenal game and play rashford as a our striker. Would bring lukaku back for cska and city.

Martial was brilliant again today. So happy he has found his form because at 21, he has an immense amount of talent. If he can get 15 prem goals, 20 plus in all competitions, he will have done great.

Shout out to lingard to. Often plays well against the smaller teams and his movement today was great. I think his position is in the centre. Would not be against martial lingard and rashford as the 3 behind lukaku.

 

[Irish_Red]

Which is fine mate, no problem. There's a difference between being nervy and being brilliant though. We've improved leaps and bounds this season and have had one of the best starts we've ever had to a PL season, all the while playing some very difficult games (away from home to Liverpool and Chelsea is never easy) without our best player. Not to add, there are still areas in the squad where we will need to improve - mainly fullbacks, a right sided attacker and possibly a number 10. We most likely won't win the PL this season, but our football and our performances are improving and given the 5-6 years of bullshit we've had to endure, I'm happy to see genuine progress.

Likewise, I am much more happy as a fan now than in the previous 6 years. I completely agree that missing Pogba has been a huge factor in our relatively poor form lately and until the Renaissance of Ashley Young our full backs have been a huge source of concern and under investment the past few years.

The issue seems to be at the moment that we are completely reliant on Pogba to link our defence and midfield and when we are missing him in the middle or when he is marked tightly we more often than not have to resort to aiming longish balls at Lukaku.

Our risk averse style of play necessitates this and the average fan such as myself can't help but feel that if we decided to play at a higher tempo in the middle and with more purpose and awareness of other teammates going forward we would be a much better team even with the limited personnel in the middle and in the full back positions that we have.

How we pressurise the opponent when they have the ball is a matter of opinion and José's deep line away from home and in big games has got him the desired results but, purely from my own opinion, I feel that if we played a higher press and played with an extra man in the middle ( say a Herrera or Fellaini) for Mata or Mkhi that we would
a) win the ball back in better positions, meaning that our midfield would be less pressurised on the ball allowing them to be more creative.
b) we should be defensively sound with two of the three protecting the middle at all times and not being opened up as we were at tmes Vs Newcastle.

The last part is just personal preference as a well drilled team could just as easily sit deep and control the match better when winning back possession also. I just think there is plenty of scope for improvement. Hopefully some of this will happen under Mourinho.

 

[carlosp]

Young's goals means he became the 12th Manchester United player to score in the PL this season equalling Watford with the most players to score.

Manchester United/Watford - 12
Chelsea/Arsenal -11
City - 10
Liverpool/West Brom/Newcastle - 9

 

[iluvoursolskjær]

Young's goals means he became the 12th Manchester United player to score in the PL this season. More than any other team in the league.

Chelsea -11
City - 10
Liverpool - 9

After being so heavily reliant on Zlatan's goals last season that is such a promising stat for us. It was a huge issue.

 

[moodyred]

At 3-0, I thought this will be the game we score 5. Instead, we let them back. Anyone who wasn't worried at 3-2, is lying.

I was rather concerned about this game as our form of late has not been encouraging. To win 4-2 is an excellent result. Just spare me the heart attacks in future please.

Young was fantastic today. Dele Alli will be eating his words. Perhaps Alli would retire before Young. lol.
I felt that Lingaard deserves the MOTM more. Not only did he score the crucial goal, he was also involved in setting up a couple. He made the difference on the pitch.
I saw that soccernet gave Lindelof an 8 out of 10. I beg to differ. He had a decent game but he lost his man a number of times. He was easily turned and looks clumsy at times. I am still not confident with him on the pitch.

The next 2 games against Arsenal and Man City will define our season. 6 out of 6 please.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Yeah his performance was mixed but he wasn't totally shite like people are saying. He made a few good chances for himself and don't think he's far off being back amongst it. Every single forward has a period like this. Just look at Kane not scoring for a month.

Thank you. The Lukaku was shite comments on here make zero sense. He screwed up on the sitter, but was a big part of goals. Some just love to hate him (and other United players), I don't get it.

 

[ManuMou]

Great game, great goals. Bring on the Arse.

4 goals in a game for the 8th time this season, surely that is unprecedented and we're not even halfway through the season.

“Defensive” !

 

[NotQuiteManc]

Brilliant goals. Entertaining match.

Lukaku having bad patch. Probably needs a rest, but Ibra doesn't look he is sharp enough yet for upcoming games vs rivals. Perhaps after the CSKA game, Ibra will come in and give Lukaku the rest/bench treatment.

 

[Class of 63]

Good win today, but annoyed that we let Watford back into the game. We seem to have had this 'downing tools after leading' affliction for the past 5-6 years now and I just don't understand it.

SAF was a bugger for that as well when we were playing 2 or 3 games a week, it's just that teams soon worked out getting back(home or away)from 2-0 to 2-1 just wasn't worth the effort as 19/20 United if the other team had the temerity to try and get back into the game we'd just kick on again and put the game to bed 3-1, 4-1 in the blink of an eye......

 

[MZX7]

Expected us to drop points in this game, unless your City, Watford are brilliant at home.

Lindolf is looking much more settled, smalling also made some great tackles and young was everywhere (before the 70th min). We then lost matic to injury and the game changed. Jose then subbed martial and game changed again. These were the crucial points for me because before that we were comfortable now playing well and Watford were not creating much, was just a passing drill for them.

I'm pretty sick of lukaku at the moment. Ball bounces off him, loses the ball to often, expects the ball at his feet and nothing is working out. Think he needs a rest too. I would drop him for arsenal game and play rashford as a our striker. Would bring lukaku back for cska and city.

Martial was brilliant again today. So happy he has found his form because at 21, he has an immense amount of talent. If he can get 15 prem goals, 20 plus in all competitions, he will have done great.

Shout out to lingard to. Often plays well against the smaller teams and his movement today was great. I think his position is in the centre. Would not be against martial lingard and rashford as the 3 behind lukaku.

They have a better AWAY record this season. They have not been brilliant at home. They drew with Liverpool and Brighton, Lost to Stoke, City andUnited and won against Arsenal and West Ham at home. That's 3 losses, 2 draws and 2 wins from 7 games at home so far.

Away record is 4 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Good job. It was a bit nervy when they scored 2 but got the job done. Lindelof had a great match, Ashley is in form of his life.
Lukaku needs a rest, better to avoid his performances thread, I bet it's a killzone there.

Lets go to Arsenal, park a bus and win ugly with 1:0.

Let's not. We're good enough to out play them.

 

[Foxbatt]

Actually we have a problem with the CF position. Lukaku was shite. No matter how much sugar coating Jose or anyone does changes the fact. It is not that he is missing chances. Everyone will do that. He was not doing much when we were under the cosh. He could not be arsed to sprint after their CB when he went past him and almost entered out penalty box. He was just jogging about. If he runs a bit a like Rashford he will help the team a lot more.
As for Rashford, it is time he realized that this is a team game and he is trying to do all on his own. He simply is not good enough like Martial to take on a few players. Rojo showed his rustiness and though he did get the ball it was bound to be given as a penalty when he tackled from behind.
Lindelof had a good game and it was only a couple of times he was beaten. He seems to use his brain a lot more than any of our defenders.
Our midfield was non existent and it is a huge concern that Herrera has lost his form. What happened to the player of last season?

 

[Class of 63]

Actually we have a problem with the CF position. Lukaku was shite. No matter how much sugar coating Jose or anyone does changes the fact. It is not that he is missing chances. Everyone will do that. He was not doing much when we were under the cosh. He could not be arsed to sprint after their CB when he went past him and almost entered out penalty box. He was just jogging about. If he runs a bit a like Rashford he will help the team a lot more.
As for Rashford, it is time he realized that this is a team game and he is trying to do all on his own. He simply is not good enough like Martial to take on a few players. Rojo showed his rustiness and though he did get the ball it was bound to be given as a penalty when he tackled from behind.
Lindelof had a good game and it was only a couple of times he was beaten. He seems to use his brain a lot more than any of our defenders.
Our midfield was non existent and it is a huge concern that Herrera has lost his form. What happened to the player of last season?

Really ?!

 

[K2K]

Meh

City won 6-0 there.

I kid

 

[Foxbatt]

Really ?!

yes he was. A CF is supposed to defend from the front too. He did eff all much of the game. Did you not watch the game? He didn't hold the ball up, he lost easy possession, he didnt go for the 50/50 balls. He made it too easy for their defence. When we were under the cosh he just disappeared. He could have made a nuisance of himself but he didnt. People will say he laid the ball for the goal. Yes he did but that is not all he has to do.

 

[Class of 63]

Meh

City won 6-0 there.

I kid

We can only Aspire(sp/word)

 

[K_Ash]

all those "Lukaku's form has dipped" blah blah...ok he didnt show much confidence on that one occasion. But he is the one that opened things up for the first goal then that made that pass to Martial for the 3rd.

 

[Foxbatt]

He needs to do a lot more than just that. He needed to hold the ball up, not lose possession easily and also sprint for the 50/50 balls. He did nothing of that sort. We are United and we expect a lot more from our players. We were getting over run in midfield and under the cosh in the second half and when Lukaku did not hold the ball up or was unable to control the ball it comes back at our defence no sooner have they cleared it.

 

[Fully Fledged]

But but Mourinho just parks the bus...

He did in the second half and it nearly cost us. It took a sublime solo goal by Lingard to seal it.

 

[Foxbatt]

He did in the second half and it nearly cost us. It took a sublime solo goal by Lingard to seal it.

I dont think he parked the bus. He looked very upset about it. I think the players themselves took it too easy. He did say that we had the chances to score 5 or 6 before they scored.

 

[Class of 63]

yes he was. A CF is supposed to defend from the front too. He did eff all much of the game. Did you not watch the game? He didn't hold the ball up, he lost easy possession, he didnt go for the 50/50 balls. He made it too easy for their defence. When we were under the cosh he just disappeared. He could have made a nuisance of himself but he didnt. People will say he laid the ball for the goal. Yes he did but that is not all he has to do.

No, I was following the game on ceefax/oracle text.

ps. Let the 24" go, it's probably exaggerated

 

[prtk0811]

The midfeild options are more concerning than lukaku's goal scoring form.

Carrick should be brought back immidiately

 

[Ecstatic]

- Given the results, you don't have the right to be pessimistic in a general way
- Young on fire. Always he was underrated.
- Martial is attracted by the heart of the game so is Young overly exposed when we think about the 2 conceded goals?
- Lingard brings fluidity and I like his stick handling skills.
- I have the feeling Lukaku is tired

I said we'd lose 2-1 so I'm ecstatic we won and some great goals too

 

[Inigo Montoya]

You mean 3-4 times per season at Wembley? Look he does have some good games but for me this isn't one of them. But we're coasting so I guess everyone is awesome and every negative comment is an agenda

Re Lingard. Some of the pre match comments were downright embarrassing

 

[Siorac]

- Given the results, you don't have the right to be pessimistic in a general way
- Young on fire. Always he was underrated.
- Martial is attracted by the heart of the game so is Young overly exposed when we think about the 2 conceded goals?
- Lingard brings fluidity and I like his stick handling skills.
- I have the feeling Lukaku is tired

As Martial wasn't on the pitch when we conceded either of those goals, I don't think there is a reason to worry about him exposing Young.

 

[Handsome Devil]

Apart from the now familiar period in the second half when United seem to collectively loose their shit, it was a very enjoyable match and that Lingard goal reminded me of why I love football.

 

[Sunny Jim]

should have been 5-0 up before they got that pen

 

[Marcky411]

Shocking. If it wasn't for the 2 Ashley Young goals, and the Martial goal and the Lingard goal, we'd be looking at a 2-0 defeat, which is clearly unacceptable.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Re Lingard. Some of the pre match comments were downright embarrassing

To be fair I did say 3-4 times, was wrong about the Wembley bit tho, he scored an amazing goal today, doesn't stop him from being average to me. It's probably people like you who would still have Rooney playing for us based on 'that goal he scored against somebody' months ago.

 

[Marcky411]

First half was a solid performance, taking into account that Pogba and Matic were quite poor and got overrun a bit in midfield. At half time 3-0 and cruising, I myself was hoping we would push on and really finish this game off with one eye on Saturday, but instead we got complacent and invited a lot more pressure on us than what we needed. Once they got that penalty I knew that we were in for a difficult finish as their confidence peaked, luckily Jesse killed the game off for us. 3 points we move on, the only real concerns I have with the team at the moment besides some poor performances are Rashford (don't know what has happened to him lately) at one stage Mourinho had to fly out of his seat to chase him onto the field, just stood watching from the sideline. I really thought Mourinho was going to physically attack him at that moment.
Lukaku what can I say 1 in 11 games, his confidence is rock bottom and there are no signs of him snapping out of it, at the moment every aspect of his game is letting him down and I really hope something happens for him or that Zlatan can start playing for longer periods of time, maybe he needs a bit of a rest, maybe sit out a game, don't know but something has to happen.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We should have been out of sight by the time they scored. We were pretty poor in the second half and good on Messi Lingard for scoring that goal that meant we weren't in panic stations for the last few minutes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They have a better AWAY record this season. They have not been brilliant at home. They drew with Liverpool and Brighton, Lost to Stoke, City andUnited and won against Arsenal and West Ham at home. That's 3 losses, 2 draws and 2 wins from 7 games at home so far.

Away record is 4 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw.

For a team like Watford, beating Arsenal and drawing with Liverpool means they’re a tough nut to crack at home, almost irrespective of other results.

 

[Rednotdead]

In the second half we just didn't keep the ball and slow down the pace of the game. We let them dictate, almost without opposition.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Marco Silva used the difference in the club's resources as an excuse in his post-match. I don't remember him using the same reasoning when they were tonked at home by City.