Premier League table since Ole took over

[sideshow_bob]

Unbelievable results by Ole & Phelan.

Hope we back him in the summer with whatever/whoever he requests for.

Looking at our goals allowed numbers, I'm just worried Ole will not bring in any new faces to central defence.

 

[USREDEVIL]

A cliche that is and has always been hysterically wrong and absurd. Only true for goldfish, which most of us are not.

This accounts for so many of the short term reactionary posts on this site. Without context people can jump to crazy assumptions (world beater! - rubbish! etc.)

 

[Camy89]

Images are easier on the eye:

This is the first time I've seen your tagline come true. This made me happy.

 

[Buster15]

No one's forgotten the job he did up until the PSG game and up till that game we were top of this mini league table. Quite rightly though 2 wins in our last 6 games is all anyone should really be looking at now

And in fairness, the wins against Watford and West Ham were pretty fortunate.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

If we somehow win against Everton and City - we'll be back on top again.

 

[crossy1686]

I hope he get Fergie level's of autonomy come June. It's the only way we're going to rebuild.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

If you take away all the goals scored under Ole, we wouldn’t have won a single game until now.

If that doesn’t tell you how utterly terrible the last 4 months have been then nothing will.

If you flip the GF/GA columns, we'd be 19th on the GD column as well. Ole is destroying this club.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

That seems to suggest you're saying Ole > all of those other managers?

I've obviously got no idea how we'd of done under those managers, no one does. Not sure what drove you to even ask the question as I certainly made no suggestion to the fact that we shouldn't have hired Ole when we did

I think the fact that we couldn't answer with confidence that they would have done better means that Ole deserves the benifit of any doubt.

No one's forgotten the job he did up until the PSG game and up till that game we were top of this mini league table. Quite rightly though 2 wins in our last 6 games is all anyone should really be looking at now

If we should only be looking at the last 6 games to judge him, then we are purposfully forgetting what he did before.

Surely the only thing we should be looking at is our next game?

 

[Josep Dowling]

What?
1. Vs Liverpool he had 6/7players missing and forced into 3 changes just before half time and still comfortably kept the leaders at bay.
2. Spurs game we had more than one shot. We had opportunities to extend our llead
3. We were not awful vs Arsenal but wasted cclear chances to score.

And you left out the FA Cup wins at Chelsea and Arsenal I see.

FA cup wins mean nothing if you get knocked out. We played well in both game but then go to Wolves and play as bad as we did completely put pay to those two results.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Ole has done extremely well since his appointment. I personally never expected to be in contention for top 4. The issue here is again a lack of any identity or patterns. What is the style of football Ole wants implemented.
With LVG, the way we played in first 3 months is how we played at the end. That is the concern some fans have which shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[Raw]

FA cup wins mean nothing if you get knocked out. We played well in both game but then go to Wolves and play as bad as we did completely put pay to those two results.

Surely the results themselves deserve recognition though, despite us getting knocked out later on. They were high stakes games in a competition that both Chelsea and Arsenal could have won, and we deservedly won them both quite easily.

 

[Treble]

Ole has done extremely well since his appointment. I personally never expected to be in contention for top 4. The issue here is again a lack of any identity or patterns. What is the style of football Ole wants implemented.
With LVG, the way we played in first 3 months is how we played at the end. That is the concern some fans have which shouldn't be dismissed.

My concerns too.

A possible explanation is that the players are not fit enough to aplly high pressing and Ole decided to revert to old (Jose like) ways of playing to get results and not run the team in the ground before the end of the season. It is clear though that this team lacks identity and the good run has involved a lot of luck.

 

[deafepl]

Sometimes I wonder, what could happen if he spends £200m net in the transfer window to improve our XI then they perform so well based on our expectation, how much shall we get point for next season? Don't forget that we were behind City by point in Ole's league table and their squad is superior to us.

So if we added more quality in the squad this summer, I think we'll be closer to title contender than top 4.

 

[Raw]

Sometimes I wonder, what could happen if he spends £200m net in the transfer window to improve our XI then they perform so well based on our expectation, how much shall we get point for next season? Don't forget that we were behind City by point in Ole's league table and their squad is superior to us.

So if we added more quality in the squad this summer, I think we'll be closer to title contender than top 4.

It's hard to say. If we improve the squad but still play like we've been playing recently, we won't be near the title. Play like we did when Ole first arrived and we'd definitely be up there.

I think we'll improve, but our results will lack consistency.

 

[LInkash]

My concerns too.

A possible explanation is that the players are not fit enough to aplly high pressing and Ole decided to revert to old (Jose like) ways of playing to get results and not run the team in the ground before the end of the season. It is clear though that this team lacks identity and the good run has involved a lot of luck.

I think it's clear the players are not fit enough, Ole himself mentioned this after our injury crisis. We need a preseason. This is why preseasons are so important and not in a Sanchez needs a preseason kind of way.

Preseason.

 

[deafepl]

It's hard to say. If we improve the squad but still play like we've been playing recently, we won't be near the title. Play like we did when Ole first arrived and we'd definitely be up there.

I think we'll improve, but our results will lack consistency.

I seconded that but City and Liverpool had a bad period when they were dropping, especially Liverpool, they have been played many games where they were not at their best or even average in 2019 but got it done and moved on, it would be impossible to the perfected season with excellent win inform 100%.

Not only results lack consistency but the performance as well, they are more important for our form than just result even if we won games with ugly performance.

 

[deafepl]

I think it's clear the players are not fit enough, Ole himself mentioned this after our injury crisis. We need a preseason. This is why preseasons are so important and not in a Sanchez needs a preseason kind of way.

Preseason.

I feel like Ole needs to bring new staff who can help him with tactical, philosophy, training session and give him some new ideas. Carrick and Mckenna are nice but we only have one experienced assistant who happens to be Phelan, it's not enough.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Surely the results themselves deserve recognition though, despite us getting knocked out later on. They were high stakes games in a competition that both Chelsea and Arsenal could have won, and we deservedly won them both quite easily.

True, I’m just frustrated with how this season is going. Play well away against Chelsea, which our record at Stamford Bridge is appalling. Play well away to Arsenal, even Sanchez and Lingard were at it. Then go to Wolves and don’t turn up. Just want the season to end. With Liverpool and City likely to win all the top prizes this season whilst we might not get Champions League, it’s up there as the worst season for us since Fergie retired.

We are behind so many teams and appointing Solskjaer looks like a massive gamble to me. He’s been judged on half a season where there was no pressure to achieve anything. Now we are back in contention and team folds once again and more importantly not playing well.

 

[GM K]

Images are easier on the eye:

Question is: how much of that is down to Ole's work vs how much of that is down to some of the players just being plain happy and determined to stick it up to Jose?

The results have not been great since Jose's firing started wearing out and that makes me think much of it was down to seeing Jose fired.

Nevetherless, I am firmly behind Ole. I think we should give him enough time and back him up fully. The biggest advantage of having him managing the team is that he gets what Unites is about and he seems to have a wise head on his neck.

 

[FFK Norway]

Isent strange that United is messed up. When you see the supporter think the same way!

You people should wake up and see were United is now and not were IT was. United is No title contender its not one of the top teams in europe at the moment its a club Who has lost its identity.
But all you care about is winning. Thats not whats important now. It's about finding BACK to be United.

Half of the starters is either demanding a raise in wage. Or they are going to other clubs and wont risk becoming injured. Thats the problem they dont try their best cause they dont care. Tottenham had 5 losses in a row few rounds ago No one Said something then.

 

[TJ Reid]

Notwithstanding the relevance or otherwise of the above statistical analysis, I think you have to stick with Ole as the problems now are clearly down to a mix of poor player culture and poor recruitment - not to mention handing out contracts to the likes of Jones and Martial which beggars belief given their less than impressive form.

 

[SAFMUTD]

So how did this finally end?

 

[bosnian_red]

So how did this finally end?

3rd in PTS, tied for 4th with Arsenal and Spurs for goals scored, tied in 5th with Chelsea for goals against. Even the 3rd best in xPTS, xG, though we're 6th in xGA. Says a lot about how shite Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea were to end the season. If we beat Huddersfield and Cardiff we would've missed out on goal differential. Anyway I'm glad we missed out, and while the performances really took a nose dive, I still don't think the attack was necessarily the problem. Finishing went to shit but we created plenty, it was mainly our defence and midfield is fecking woeful.

 

[Eriku]

If Ole didn’t do all his winning the first few months and then a shittier than shit streak the last couple of months, and if instead those losses were spread out a bit, nobody would be calling for his head now.

Yet, here we are.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

If Ole didn’t do all his winning the first few months and then a shittier than shit streak the last couple of months, and if instead those losses were spread out a bit, nobody would be calling for his head now.

Yet, here we are.

Well I think what people hope though is that the team will improve as the manager is starting to influence things more. The fact that we have got worse with time doesn't feel good.

Of course we do not know what effect a transfer window can have. He might know the types of players we need and could see us improve. Although his tactical abilities as well as man management is something we should really doubt.
He hasn't shown to be able to do that well at all. When things are going well and players are confident you might not need to do much and could still win. Although once the problems start to come you need a manager to sort them out.
Either by adapting the tactics/instructions or by simply benching the players not performing. Also inspire the players in a way that can give them energy and confidence.

 

[bosnian_red]

If Ole didn’t do all his winning the first few months and then a shittier than shit streak the last couple of months, and if instead those losses were spread out a bit, nobody would be calling for his head now.

Yet, here we are.

Tbf after we picked up 1 point from 2 relegated sides to close the season, I think our record with Ole is only marginally better than Mourinho's awful first half of the season. If we give Mourinho the 2 wins that Ole started with to give them 19 games each, Mourinho would have 32 points, Ole would have 34. It started off really well, and some of the results were understandable to drop points in, but these last 2 really kill it.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

3rd in PTS, tied for 4th with Arsenal and Spurs for goals scored, tied in 5th with Chelsea for goals against. Even the 3rd best in xPTS, xG, though we're 6th in xGA. Says a lot about how shite Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea were to end the season. If we beat Huddersfield and Cardiff we would've missed out on goal differential. Anyway I'm glad we missed out, and while the performances really took a nose dive, I still don't think the attack was necessarily the problem. Finishing went to shit but we created plenty, it was mainly our defence and midfield is fecking woeful.

A whole 8 points more (at the points per game rate) than a manager who seemingly wanted to get sacked.

 

[7even]

If Ole didn’t do all his winning the first few months and then a shittier than shit streak the last couple of months, and if instead those losses were spread out a bit, nobody would be calling for his head now.

Yet, here we are.

That’s simply not true. Nobody likes to criticize Ole but the results is just one part of the story.

There’s no structure in his coaching. After the PSG game when we where hit with injuries he started the dithering with formations, line ups and his tactical approach. His man management must be questioned. First he praises his squad without foundations then when things go south he change his stance and starts to openly criticize their fitness and commitment. He talks about fitness, pre season, new players and use platitudes like “what the club is all about” and “the United way”. What kind of crap is that? If you don’t have the results or the credibility then it’s better to shut the f*** up then to trying to be smart and in control when the results and the teams performances says something else.

We can’t sack him now because of many different circumstances. That’s the hard reality. Unfortunately.

But let not fool ourselves. There is nothing in his first five month that justifies his appointment. His CV as a manager is thin and nowhere near the standard we can expect when you recruit a elite club manager. There is nothing, and this is the brutal part, that suggest that he has what it takes. Absolutely zero. In fact, the opposite.

 

[Alock1]

If Ole didn’t do all his winning the first few months and then a shittier than shit streak the last couple of months, and if instead those losses were spread out a bit, nobody would be calling for his head now.

Yet, here we are.

But also, had those results been spread out, he probably wouldn't have been given the job already (and may not have got it at all)

 

[Eriku]

Well I think what people hope though is that the team will improve as the manager is starting to influence things more. The fact that we have got worse with time doesn't feel good.

Of course we do not know what effect a transfer window can have. He might know the types of players we need and could see us improve. Although his tactical abilities as well as man management is something we should really doubt.
He hasn't shown to be able to do that well at all. When things are going well and players are confident you might not need to do much and could still win. Although once the problems start to come you need a manager to sort them out.
Either by adapting the tactics/instructions or by simply benching the players not performing. Also inspire the players in a way that can give them energy and confidence.

Sure we’d hope to see a straight line of improvement, but if we’re the side that runs the least in the league, and we get taken over by a manager who wants to make sure we’re among the hardest working teams, it makes sense that we don’t quite get there. Shit gets more and more intense during spring, especially when you advance in both the FA cup and the Champions League. Add to that injuries and a squad with a weak mentality, and all of a sudden it doesn’t look so cut and dry. Ole couldn’t properly implement what he wanted mid-season, stands to reason considering what we’ve seen.

Tbf after we picked up 1 point from 2 relegated sides to close the season, I think our record with Ole is only marginally better than Mourinho's awful first half of the season. If we give Mourinho the 2 wins that Ole started with to give them 19 games each, Mourinho would have 32 points, Ole would have 34. It started off really well, and some of the results were understandable to drop points in, but these last 2 really kill it.

First half of the season is a different prospect, and when we are only behind City and Liverpool since Ole walked in, then clearly the Mourinho point isn’t so damning? Poch did worse than Ole, does that mean he ought never have been considered?

That’s simply not true. Nobody likes to criticize Ole but the results is just one part of the story.

There’s no structure in his coaching. After the PSG game when we where hit with injuries he started the dithering with formations, line ups and his tactical approach. His man management must be questioned. First he praises his squad without foundations then when things go south he change his stance and starts to openly criticize their fitness and commitment. He talks about fitness, pre season, new players and use platitudes like “what the club is all about” and “the United way”. What kind of crap is that? If you don’t have the results or the credibility then it’s better to shut the f*** up then to trying to be smart and in control when the results and the teams performances says something else.

We can’t sack him now because of many different circumstances. That’s the hard reality. Unfortunately.

But let not fool ourselves. There is nothing in his first five month that justifies his appointment. His CV as a manager is thin and nowhere near the standard we can expect when you recruit a elite club manager. There is nothing, and this is the brutal part, that suggest that he has what it takes. Absolutely zero. In fact, the opposite.

He started screwing around with strange tactics and formations once it became clear that his favoured approach would mean fielding the U12s come the end of the season, with the rest out injured. It’s hard to draw any conclusions from this spring run-in. Btw, there’s no big discrepancy between talking up your team but criticising their fitness, and saying we have some way to to before we’re at the level needed.

I doubt Ole «shutting the f*** up» would have calmed anything. When you’re in a tough stint you get shat on, regardless. I can agree that his interviews and conferences sometimes comes across as fan service, but generally he’s handled that stuff pretty well and he’d get flack regardless.

But also, had those results been spread out, he probably wouldn't have been given the job already (and may not have got it at all)

Maybe. At least shit would be more balanced, and we’d have fewer hypocrites shouting Ole out despite gagging for his appointment a few months ago. It’s the fecking lack of nuance and rushing to extremes I hate.

 

[Tyrion]

If Ole didn’t do all his winning the first few months and then a shittier than shit streak the last couple of months, and if instead those losses were spread out a bit, nobody would be calling for his head now.

Yet, here we are.

Good point. On an optimistic note, that means we could turn it around again over the summer. We can't sustain OGS early form for a season but the poor second half of his time here seems equally extreme.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Interested to see this now or even a league table since Bruno Fernandes signed?

 

[VidaRed]

 

[MrSingh2002]

Hmmmm. Wonder if that's a look ahead to this years top 5.

 

[Red00012]

PE teacher

 

[morbidsaint]

Not bad for our clueless, out of his depth PE teacher.

Has to be said that Fernandes has been extremely important for Ole and our team.

1. Man Utd – 62 points (29 games played)
2. Liverpool – 61 points (29 games played)
3. Man City – 56 points (28 games played)
4. Chelsea – 52 points (29 games played)
5. Tottenham – 51 points (29 games played)
6. Everton – 48 points (29 games played)
7. Southampton – 47 points
8. Arsenal – 46 points (GD +7)

This is apperantly the league table if the PL started when we signed Fernandes.

 

[sglowrider]

Will all be irrelevant when we lose our next much. Then they all seem to crawl out of their woodwork.