Protest at Old Trafford

Dve said:
And the next day discuss who we need to sign this summer?

I get the feeling a lot these days, that the left half of the brain does not not know what the right half is doing.
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How charming. It's always easy to play smart behind the computer screen.

Is there anyone who does not use the brain completely here, it is the people who support yet another demonstration when we last saw that it is impossible to control and keep "non-violent", although the intentions were good. I would at all times rather hit the club financially than participate in such a demonstration as the last.
Take a deep breath before writing to someone you do not share an opinion with. It makes you appear more mature ... maybe even fully grown.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Many fans are willing to take a hit or two for the cause.

Whether you agree with them or not is another matter, but to portray them all as hypocrites is unfair.
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If they have a season ticket or have bought match ticket(s), bought shirt(s) or other merchandise or subscribe to Sky or BT then, yes, they could be described as hypocrites as they have contributed positively to the Glazers.
 
alexthelion said:
If they have a season ticket or have bought match ticket(s), bought shirt(s) or other merchandise or subscribe to Sky or BT then, yes, they could be described as hypocrites as they have contributed positively to the Glazers.
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Some of them could be but in my view that would be churlish and pointless.

It has to be said the poster the previous one replied to was likely talking about various elements of the fan base as if they were one person which is a bit ridiculous.
 
Think there will be some kind of protest tonight but probably not the same intensity as the last time
 
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Colin Clarke said:
Was there any protest at last night's game? If not, why not? This can't be a every now and again theme. If United fans really want the Glaser family out then they have to protest at EVERY home game. Already you can see the media and spin doctors trying to change the conversation away from the owners to transfers and speculation.
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Green and gold but I can't on Tuesday's because me Mam has yoga so I have no lift down.
 
croadyman said:
Think there will be some kind of protest tonight but probably not the same intensity as the last time
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There will be a sizeable protest tonight but it's never going to be as big on a Thursday night as bank holiday Sunday
 
Potential to be worse tonight.

Protestors are resolved to postpone the game, knowing their will be a heavy police presence. Police failed at the last game, so will heavy handed from the beginning. Throw in a couple of oddballs who love a scrap (protestors and police) and you have yourself a riot.

Weekday night should reduce the size of the protest, but lets face it - the worst offenders probably don't work anyway, so the day doesn't really matter.
 
Lynty said:
Potential to be worse tonight.

Protestors are resolved to postpone the game, knowing their will be a heavy police presence. Police failed at the last game, so will heavy handed from the beginning. Throw in a couple of oddballs who love a scrap (protestors and police) and you have yourself a riot.

Weekday night should reduce the size of the protest, but lets face it - the worst offenders probably don't work anyway, so the day doesn't really matter.
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That's my worry. The perhaps surprising success of the last one may draw the types of people who are actively looking to kick off (no matter the ideal behind the protest) with the police and create a physical disturbance this time. Add in some cops who probably fired themselves up for it all week and going into this with the wrong attitude themselves, there is a real danger of this one turning bad if there are anywhere near as many people as last time.
 
Really hope our fans continue the protests tonight.

I have seen people arranging it for 6pm, I just hope the turn out is as good as last time.

I wish I could be there myself, I really do.
 
Hester_manc said:
How charming. It's always easy to play smart behind the computer screen.

Is there anyone who does not use the brain completely here, it is the people who support yet another demonstration when we last saw that it is impossible to control and keep "non-violent", although the intentions were good. I would at all times rather hit the club financially than participate in such a demonstration as the last.
Take a deep breath before writing to someone you do not share an opinion with. It makes you appear more mature ... maybe even fully grown.
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I beg your pardon? Which protest did you participate in, typing on a keyboard in Denmark?

Anyway, my comment was not directed to you specifically, and not even to people protesting - more to the idea that cutting off United´s income will harm the owners only, and not the club´s financial capacity. Hence, you e.g. watch fan cams one day encouraging people not to buy shirts and cheering over sponsors dropping out, and the next day demanding us to sign Sancho, Rice and Verane, plus renovate Old Trafford. I´m not sure I´m the one that needs to grow up.

If you personally, instead, realise that cutting the club´s income will actually affect more than the owners, and you are willing to pay that price, that´s fair enough.
 
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alexthelion said:
If they have a season ticket or have bought match ticket(s), bought shirt(s) or other merchandise or subscribe to Sky or BT then, yes, they could be described as hypocrites as they have contributed positively to the Glazers.
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That's irrelevant to this particular discussion, though. What I responded was the suggestion that those who protest now (targeting sponsors, aiming to get matches canceled, etc.) will be first in line to moan if/when we don't sign their targets of choice this summer.

Which is nonsense. Most of those protesters are clearly prepared for a poor transfer window or two if that's what it takes to get rid of the Glazers.

Again, this isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with what they're doing. It's about belittling them, trying to portray them as fickle, hypocritical, stupid, irrational, etc.
 
Dve said:
I beg your pardon? Which protest did you participate in, typing on a keyboard in Denmark?

Anyway, my comment was not directed to you specifically, and not even to people protesting - more to the idea that cutting off United´s income will harm the owners only, and not the club´s financial capacity. Hence, you e.g. watch fan cams one day encouraging people not to buy shirts and cheering over sponsors dropping out, and the next day demanding us to sign Sancho, Rice and Verane, plus renovate of Old Trafford. I´m not sure I´m the one that needs to grow up.

If you personally, instead, realise that cutting the club´s income will actually affect more than the owners, and you are willing to pay that price, that´s fair enough.
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I think you do, if you think everything is as simple as that.

The fact is that the protests worked. Sponsors dropped out, and the Glazers (at least in writing) sound more committed than ever to the club. So, it worked.
 
If people want to continue to protest please do, its a big game so whatever happens it'll be all over sky sports, just keep it peaceful and try not to injury anyone.
 
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Let me first say I abhor the method by which United was purchased, but I am also a pragmatist. I have been a United support for 60 years, seeing the good and bad times and I prefer the good.

So you get the Glazers out, what next? Even if the value of the club is depressed by all the actions. The proposals ventured thus far will not fly. You can protest all you want about how the Glazers bought the club but you have to deal with reality, we are a club valued at £4B with debts of £500M and squad and infrastructure which needs expenditure of £1B plus. There are indications that the TV and sponsorship income has maxed. The Glazers have to achieve maximum value for shareholders on any sale, otherwise they may face class action in the US. Anything they do to devalue the shares will be taken to court. So what are the options put forward thus far?

NEW OWNERS, where are all these people who love United enough to want to take on that level of debt or problems. There are not many rumours about people queuing up to buy United. Even the Saudis, which some people don’t want, think Newcastle is a better bet. Otherwise we could be bought by new business men. Bear in mind that depressing the value might seem a good idea but it also may attract venture capitalists. See where you are then.

50% plus fan ownership. Even with a depressed value, fans will have to find £1B plus. That is a million fans putting in £1000 each. Not going to happen. Even if it did the problems still remain of the debt and development requirements. The Government will not legislate for 50+1. Most other clubs don’t want it, the Government will not pay off the owners, and they do not want to set a precedent that shows that post Brexit Britain has a business intervention policy. They may bring in a football club regulator and some fan representation, but that will have little teeth. No meaningful legislation will come about which would take United back to the top.

MUST proposals. Whilst a very laudable set of proposals, will never fly, because it assumes that the Glazers will sell part of the shares at a preferential rate. More shares on the market mean the value of current shares will devalue. As said previously, Glazers will be taken to court by existing shareholders.

Some people are willing to let United fall for a supposed better future, tell me where are some of the great clubs of the past and have they got back from a fall. Leeds, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa are examples. Arsenal are a more modern day example. If you see your club fall be prepared for a bleak future.

So what is the solution? I proposed the other day a possible win/win solution, which as usual got criticism but no alternative realistic option. That was for all parties, owners (maybe the Glazers), Council and Government to work together to develop a NEW TRAFFORD. See my previous posting for details. It may not fly for many reasons. As in life we need a solution which all parties can live with.

The protest have a value but there is also a time to walk away and work with people.
 
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mu4c_20le said:
I think you do, if you think everything is as simple as that.

The fact is that the protests worked. Sponsors dropped out, and the Glazers (at least in writing) sound more committed than ever to the club. So, it worked.
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Yes, I agree. The protests worked. I was never against the protests.

However, if the protests are going to continue until the Glazers are gone - and the way to achieve that is to harm them (and the club) financially - we most also hope that we lose the rest of our games to end up as far down the table as possible (less merit money), we most hope that we lose the EL final (same reason) and we must hope that we´ll be unable to sell any of our players in the coming transfer window.

So, how far are we willing to go? Should we take the hand stretched out and try to work with the Glazers, or should be hope to get relegated next season, Ole to be sacked, our star players to leave, the academy to fall apart and Old Trafford to rotten down? All that, unknowing of what owners we´ll get instead. When 1/3 of the CAF members seem to prefer a murderous regime instead of the Glazers, the antipathy to them has turned into blind hate, IMO.
 
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sewey89 said:
Ok, if the players are there, then there is absolutely no chance they're letting supporters get close to the stadium, let alone into it.
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Never were, in my opinion, especially to the degree that the match would again be postponed.

It was always a bit odd to think that there would be a repeat of two Sundays ago.
 
calodo2003 said:
Never were, in my opinion, especially to the degree that the match would again be postponed.

It was always a bit odd to think that there would be a repeat of two Sundays ago.
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Oh absolutely. I knew security would be beefed up massively but I just had a thought that there may be even more protesters who just want to go and try to repeat the actions of a couple of weeks ago. But to allow the players into the ground, they're clearly very confident that they'll be safe
 
sewey89 said:
Oh absolutely. I knew security would be beefed up massively but I just had a thought that there may be even more protesters who just want to go and try to repeat the actions of a couple of weeks ago. But to allow the players into the ground, they're clearly very confident that they'll be safe
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A lot might be dependent on the Liverpool squad, but I surmise they will probably arrive sooner than normal or they’ve also already arrived to OT.
 
Dve said:
Yes, I agree. The protests worked. I was never against the protests.

However, if the protests are going to continue until the Glazers are gone - and the way to achieve that is to harm them (and the club) financially - we most also hope that we lose the rest of our games to end up as far down the table as possible (less merit money), we most hope that we lose the EL final (same reason) and we must hope that we´ll be unable to sell any of our players in the coming transfer window.

So, how far are we willing to go? Should we take the hand stretched out and try to work with the Glazers, or should be hope to get relegated next season, Ole to be sacked, our star players to leave, the academy to fall apart and Old Trafford to rotten down? All that, unknowing of what owners we´ll get instead. When 1/3 of the CAF members seem to prefer a murderous regime instead of the Glazers, the antipathy to them has turned into blind hate, IMO.
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Don't necessarily disagree with that, but the fan cams as you were pointing out were not necessarily advocating for total destruction of the club..
 
Dve said:
Yes, I agree. The protests worked. I was never against the protests.

However, if the protests are going to continue until the Glazers are gone - and the way to achieve that is to harm them (and the club) financially - we most also hope that we lose the rest of our games to end up as far down the table as possible (less merit money), we most hope that we lose the EL final (same reason) and we must hope that we´ll be unable to sell any of our players in the coming transfer window.

So, how far are we willing to go? Should we take the hand stretched out and try to work with the Glazers, or should be hope to get relegated next season, Ole to be sacked, our star players to leave, the academy to fall apart and Old Trafford to rotten down? All that, unknowing of what owners we´ll get instead. When 1/3 of the CAF members seem to prefer a murderous regime instead of the Glazers, the antipathy to them has turned into blind hate, IMO.
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Yes I agree there is a time when you have to seek to work with people rather than against them. Maybe it will not turn out to be exactly what the majority want. You have to seek a solution that all can live with. Ruining the club and forcing the sponsors away will not end well.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Don't necessarily disagree with that, but the fan cams as you were pointing out were not necessarily advocating for total destruction of the club..
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Well, take Goldbridge, e.g., he said he´d rather see us play in the Championship than to keep the Glazers, while at the same time celebrating out wins and talking about big spendings in the summer. Not that I want to hold that so hard against him, as things can be said in the heat of the moment, but it underlines my original point, my impression that the left half of the brain does not understand what the right one is doing.

Edit: Let me add to that, that I hope the game will be played tonight, and I will warn against going too far with the protests. So far, we have gained a lot of sympathy for the protests, but this could easily turn around and become counterproductive.
 
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The Glazer's tried to destroy British and European football with their 25 year Super League contract.

25 years. And they expect everyone to just forget and sweep it under the rug like it never happened.
 
Glazers Out! said:
The Glazer's tried to destroy British and European football with their 25 year Super League contract.

25 years. And they expect everyone to just forget and sweep it under the rug like it never happened.
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could be worse, lucky to have them etc so some say
 
Utd heap said:
Sorry but?
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I don't see the issue. Protesting is fine. I was clearly referring to those causing criminal damage as 'the worst offenders'. Correlation between unemployment and crime has been proven in studies many times.

Other than being tongue and cheek, I was also - in all likelihood - fairly accurate.
 
I might be adding two and two together and coming up with five but if what I've interpreted from a cryptic tweet I've just seen correctly, I think the plan is to get the game called off by flying a bunch of drones on to the pitch en masse while the game is going on :lol:
 
rotherham_red said:
I might be adding two and two together and coming up with five but if what I've interpreted from a cryptic tweet I've just seen correctly, I think the plan is to get the game called off by flying a bunch of drones on to the pitch en masse while the game is going on :lol:
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Liverpool will get the points if that happens

Loved it last time but we can't afford to hand Livepool CL footy. We have to snatch it!
 
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