Qualitywise who is good enough to wear the shirt ?

Fracture90 said:
So you've got James as a player who's got enough quality to play for UTD, but you've got Martial as a squad player?
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This place has always had posters that delusional. Beside Pogba no one has more quality than Martial when it comes to United outfield players.

You asks these people to tell you how exactly all these other players have more qualities than Martial and they'll start taking you into these long tangent and nonsensical abstract arguments about attitude etc.

Anyone with a set of working eyes would easily tell you quality wise watching our current players that only Pogba alone has more quality than someone like Martial. The rest? Absolutely no way.
 
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Starters:

DDG
AWB
Maguire
Pogba
Rashford

Squad:

Romero
Williams
Shaw
Lindelof
Tuanzebe
Fred
McSauce
James
Martial (Based on consistency)
Greenwood

Sell/Get rid of:

Matic/Jones/Rojo/Young/Pereira/Lingard
 
Santoryo said:
This place has always had posters that delusional. Beside Pogba no one has more quality than Martial when it comes to United outfield players.

You asks these people to tell you how exactly all these other players have more qualities than Martial and they'll start taking you into these long tangent and nonsensical abstract arguments about attitude etc.

Anyone with a set of working eyes would easily tell you quality wise watching our current players that only Pogba alone has more quality than someone like Martial. The rest? Absolutely no way.
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100% agree with you. I don't event have to turn on the TV to guess how boring a United game is going to be if Martial and/or Pogba aren't playing. Anyone with a brain can see that he's our most talented and skilled forward.

Not to mention all the data and statistics which say the same thing.
 
The following is the strongest team we can put out in terms of ability and potential, in my humble opinion:

DDG

AWB Lindelof Maguire Williams

Mctom Fred

Pogba

Greenwood Martial Rashford​



That's a fairly strong first eleven by any standards and competitive enough to finish top-four in the Prem. You can make a case for any of the above being either first-teamers or squad players.

Subs: Romero, Shaw, Tuanzebe, Periera, Garner, Gomes, James.

The bench is weak but passable. Barely.

The problems begin and end when their replacements enter the equation as the drop in quality is shocking. The likes of Young, Mata, Lingard, Periera, Matic, Jones, and many others I have failed to mention, are not good enough by any stretch of the imagination and equally contribute to our clubs failings. The sooner we replace them the sooner we rise.
​
 
Foxbatt said:
The two Owens were commenting on Martial. They said he is bad in a poor team but would be extremely good in a good team where they can supply him the ball.
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Dont know what games they've been watching, Martial for me, has been very good on the ball and in his runs lately. He's in good condition and looks hungry to me atm, but of course as every other attacker he relies on his teammates also showing skills and runs off the ball. Our midfield situation and James looking a bit tired doesnt help
 
First teamers: AWB, Maguire, Pogba

Regular starters: Romero, DDG, Martial, Mctominay, Rashford

Squad members: Lindelof, Smalling, Williams, Fred, James, Greenwoid Periera
 
For me United player must have quality then more quality and then comes character and passion and United "through and through".
Quality players are ;
De gea
Rashford
Pogba
Martial

If we presume that you can't have 22 world class players then rotation players who will do their job good enough are;
Lindelof
Awb
Fred(?)
Romero
Greenwood( because of potential).

Others just don't have quality. As i said, some of our players are loved among fans because of their passion and love for this club but in reality they are not good enough for title challenger
 
Not a single current United player would get in the starting lineup of our best 11 in our 1999 and 2008 teams, on that basis none of them are good enough to wear the shirt.
 
Sp00ks11 said:
Not a single current United player would get in the starting lineup of our best 11 in our 1999 and 2008 teams, on that basis none of them are good enough to wear the shirt.
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Individual ability-wise Martial, PP and DDG would, especially if you do not factor in "inflation" as in general development of football over time.
If they would suit the team or style of play is a whole nother matter.
 
fps said:
Think this needs to broken up into “who is fit to be a starting 11 player” and “who is fit to be a squad player”.
Imagine the abuse a great servant like Quinton Fortune would be getting on here if he was thrust into being a nailed-on first teamer every week. But he was fit to wear the shirt- he never let anyone down and played his heart out.
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this. It’s down to management and ownership more than anything. Lots of these players would get into successful Fergie squads but we are missing the really special signings and man management that bring it all together, and while we search for that balance the least we could do is find a dedicated and productive RW and added cover in crucial positions. Fix the stuff even the most casual fan can see is a problem .
 
DDG
Romero

Bissaka
Shaw
Williams

McTominay
Fred
Pogba

James
Rashford
Martial
Greenwood

Potentially could be:
Maguire
Dalot
Pereira

Not all as starters but as squad players at least...and this is probably harsh on a few I've left out.

You have to be some kind of massive drama queen to say something like "Pogba and that's it"...he hasn't even been our best player over the course of any season, or close to it. You don't have entire squad of world beaters even when you are taking on the world. Ferguson found uses for people like O'Shea, Gibson, Jones, fecking Bebe.

Our biggest problem is we just don't have enough reliable players. We can just about field a team with enough of them in when everyone is fit. Literally 2 injuries and we look like we've been pieced together from the remains of a car accident.
 
simplyared said:
OK if we set the bar at Leicester level, who would get into their starting line-up? 4 of our players, that's where we're at!

De Gea

Pereira
Soyuncu
Maguire
Chilwell

Ndidi
Tielemans
Pogba
Maddison

Rashford
Vardy
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Jesus Christ that’s depressing.
 
noodlehair said:
DDG
Romero

Bissaka
Shaw
Williams

McTominay
Fred
Pogba

James
Rashford
Martial
Greenwood

Potentially could be:
Maguire
Dalot
Pereira

Not all as starters but as squad players at least...and this is probably harsh on a few I've left out.

You have to be some kind of massive drama queen to say something like "Pogba and that's it"...he hasn't even been our best player over the course of any season, or close to it. You don't have entire squad of world beaters even when you are taking on the world. Ferguson found uses for people like O'Shea, Gibson, Jones, fecking Bebe.

Our biggest problem is we just don't have enough reliable players. We can just about field a team with enough of them in when everyone is fit. Literally 2 injuries and we look like we've been pieced together from the remains of a car accident.
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I hate disagreeing with people and telling them they are wrong when it's just their opinion mate, and I'd agree with some of what you've said above, but in my humble opinion, Luke shaw should be one of the first out the door.
 
IrishMcD said:
I hate disagreeing with people and telling them they are wrong when it's just their opinion mate, and I'd agree with some of what you've said above, but in my humble opinion, Luke shaw should be one of the first out the door.
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I wouldn't have him as a starter...although when he's actually fit I think he's very good. Just seems to like his pies too much.

But you know, if he can be in a team that beats City away, Chelsea 4-0 and not look out of place, he's not as bad as people like to pretend.

For all the hate him and Young get, fullback is one of the few positions where we can get an injury and actually not fall into a crisis.

We get a couple of midfielders injured or literally one of Rashford or Martial, and the amount of games we can realistically win immediately drops by about 50%.
 
Random Task said:
No, he wouldn't.
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You either have no faith in SAF, or you show too much faith in Ole and want to blame our misfortunes on the players. The squad that Ole inherited from Mourinho had taken 2nd place in the premier league just 2 years ago.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Would it not be better to just say title contenders, since it is our (the fans, not the club) long term goal? If so:

Starting 11 for title contenders:
DDG (Not long term)
Pogba (got the abilities)
Martial (got the abilities)

Rotational players(Among the 18 players usually in a match squad, but not more than 10 starts in the league per season)
Romero
Rashford (decisionmaking)
Maguire (immobility makes him an obvious weak point in how you defend)
Lindelof (not strong enough, same as Maguire)
AWB (can't pass or contribute in attack)
MCT (Zero sum player)
Greenwood (Should be loaned out if we had other capable options)
Tuanzebe (Got the abilities and physicality, not seen enough of him to evaluate his consistency over a number of games.)

Squad players (Can start on occasion and in cups):
Fred (Can do the work off the ball)
Young (Still physically able, but his time on the ball and lured into bad situations along the sideline is getting tiresome to watch.)
James (Counterattack)
Pereira (Work rate)
Matic (legs)
TFM (Not sure how he will be with his injury history. Might have matured or not.)

Players that should be given game time or loaned out to get experience based on their talent and readiness for first team football:
Laird
Williams
Mejbri
Kovar
Gomes
Levitt
Garner
+ some of the younger players in the u18.

Deadwood:
Lingard (everything)
Shaw (can't cross or attack)
Mata (can't run)
Jones and Bailly (Injuries)
Chong (He might develop into a decent player, but it will not happen at our club.)


Personally I think that most of the players in the squad should be sold given their lack of ability to play multiple types of football, and especially high press and possession based. Having a squad full of players mainly suited to low block and counter might get us top 4 if we are efficient in attack and lucky in defence, but no chance that we will be able to compete for a title over 38 games playing this type of football.
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Agreed
 
Question needs more definition: quality wise in attitude, ability, top 4 contenders??

If you’re looking for a team that can nail anywhere between 4th and 8th then theyre mostly fine. But it’s anyone’s guess where they’ll end from one season to the next.

Im not being over dramatic, the team needs a huge overhaul to get back where it wants to be. I maintained after the Mourinho sacking, however unrealistic, that the team needed a hard reset.

Circumstances aside, Pep brought in around 15 players over 2 seasons when he first joined City. Effectively bought an entire new defence and GK in one go.

I’d argue we need a similar mass change for any new manager to fully imprint onto the club, and hit the ground running.

Instead we have a mish mash of players from different managers of varying style. If we continue on this couple in, couple out policy, whilst probably changing managers in between, we’ll be knackered for years.
 
DDG
Romero (Squad player)
AWB
Maguire
Smalling (Squad player)
Mct (Squad player)
James (Squad player)
Pogba
Martial ( Has the talent but I question his attitude and decision making - (so.. squad player)
Greenwood -(Early days but I think he’s a talent)

I’d sell the rest in a heart beat.

Stealing a living :-
Shaw
Lingard
Lindelof
Jones
 
Its a difficult one, because Utd are a club that play younger players with potential to be good enough but not including the younger players like Williams & Greenwood and leaving senior squad members only, then I would say De Gea, Romero, Maguire, Fred(I wouldnt have said Fred a few months back, he has really come on well), McTominay, Pogba & Martial are good enough qualitywise. I would still sell Pogba though for the right offer, he clearly brings trouble with him and when you are surrounded by young players, you need good senior pro's as role models..

I don't think Shaw(lacks speed of thought/football intelligence), Lindelof(lacks aggression/courage), Lingard(lacks end product), Rashford(see Shaw) are good enough.

The jury is still out on AWB & James for me.

Not a fan of Matic & Young, but acknowledge they have qualities that we need at the moment having a poor squad.
 
Martialfc said:
DDG
Romero (Squad player)
AWB
Maguire
Smalling (Squad player)
Mct (Squad player)
James (Squad player)
Pogba
Martial ( Has the talent but I question his attitude and decision making - (so.. squad player)
Greenwood -(Early days but I think he’s a talent)

I’d sell the rest in a heart beat.

Stealing a living :-
Shaw
Lingard
Lindelof
Jones
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Agree but you forgot Rashford and Williams in your first list and Rojo, Bailly, Mata in your second list.
 
I’ll tell you who’s definitely NOT...Phil Jones. I’m baffled he’s still here. Any “big club” would not allow players of his quality to be here.
 
If Fergie took over this squad the following would excel as first team players:

DDG, Wan-Bissaka, Maguire, McTominay, Pogba and Rashford.


The following would be important squad players:

Romero, Lindelof, Shaw, Fred, James, Martial, Pereira
 
simonhch said:
If Fergie took over this squad the following would excel as first team players:

DDG, Wan-Bissaka, Maguire, McTominay, Pogba and Rashford.


The following would be important squad players:

Romero, Lindelof, Shaw, Fred, James, Martial, Pereira
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You think Maguire and McTominay would 'excel as first team players', yet Martial is a squad player? That's questionable.

What has Maguire done this season to show he's even worthy of half of his price-tag? McTominay has been decent for a youth player but his lack of quality on the ball would certainly hold him back in a team with higher standards. I give AWB a break because he's rock solid defending, but he's been dismal going forward also if we're being honest.

Rashford is progressing this season, but it's not like he doesn't have his weaknesses. He needs to improve his awareness big time, his creativity and composure in front of goal.

Too many times he's head down ignoring better positioned teammates or running into blind alleys.

I wouldn't put him ahead of Martial at this point. I think they're fairly equal, with Martial the more polished of the two.
 
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Dean Henderson , can someone please start a post prompting to bring him back from loan.
 
simplyared said:
To be at the required level, who do you select?
My selection would be as follows:
Rashford
De Gea
Romero (squad player)
Wan Bissaka (on the basis he improves going forward)
Lindelöf (squad player)
Maguire
Williams (squad player with potential)
Matic (squad player)
James
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay
Note: Martial is left out as I rate him at squad player level and because he wouldn’t have the mentality to accept that, it would be better to sell.

According to my expertise we need strengthening in all departments bar GK!
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I would put Rashford in same category as Martial.
 
Taking our past standards under SAF:

Starting 11: De Gea, Pogba.

Regular starters: AWB, Maguire (I see him as past Smalling or Jones type under SAF), Martial (talent), Rashford (talent).

Squad players: Shaw (likely sell), Lindelof (likely sell), Fred, James, McTominay.

Loaned: Williams, Tuanzebe, Greenwood.

Nuked: Lingard.

The rest i've missed out would be sold at the first opportunity.
 
DDG & Pogba.
Rashford maybe- probably, if he continues his form.
AWB a probably too, but it's still early days.

A few others have shown they would, or could potentially, be good bench options (Martial, James, Maguire & Lindleof, Shaw, Fred). Most of the rest are lucky Sir Alex is retired.
 
simplyared said:
To be at the required level, who do you select?
My selection would be as follows:
Rashford
De Gea
Romero (squad player)
Wan Bissaka (on the basis he improves going forward)
Lindelöf (squad player)
Maguire
Williams (squad player with potential)
Matic (squad player)
James
Pogba
Greenwood (squad player with potential)
McTominay
Note: Martial is left out as I rate him at squad player level and because he wouldn’t have the mentality to accept that, it would be better to sell.

According to my expertise we need strengthening in all departments bar GK!
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I'd add Fred. His recent form makes him a player of Fletcher calibre imo. The caf made Fletcher some kind of Busquet/Gattuso when he's out with his illness but honestly he was not. He's an ok player with great stamina and great attitude.

Apart from Scholes, Keane, Carrick we didn't have many great midfielders in the last 20 years tbh. Our starters at a time were the after-injure Anderson and Tom Cleverly you know.

And you leaving out Martial is a bit weird tbh. There's not many better young #9 atm imo. If Benzema was playing for us the caf would rip him apart. The number of sitters he has missed is just hilarious. And he's 32 years old. Lewandowski is 31, Cavani 32, Suarez 32, Aguero 32.

Of around Martial's age (24) only Firmino (28) is better than him imo. People talks a lot about Timo Werner (23) but looking at him in the WC or CL you'd see he's no better than Martial.

And Matic, he's pretty done at this level imo.

Greenwood on the other hand will be a £100 m player one day imo. If he'd get a bit stronger and faster. I've seen none of our players having that kind of touch, composure, passing, finishing, both feet and football brain at 18 years old except Rooney.
 
The problem is that we have nothing in central midfield. McTominay is outstanding to bring off the bench when you play away to City or Barcelona and need an extra bulldog in midfield snapping at heels, but to have him as your main creator in midfield, when playing home to Watford, then that is just plain dumb. Fred is a similar player to McTominay, should only be used when you need that extra man in midfield.

I think the great hope is that Garner might be ready to play that creative midfield box to box role from next season. And then we obviously need to replace Pogba. who should have been sold last summer, with anyone of Cantwell/Maddison/Grealish or some up and coming kid from Germany/Holland/France. Jude Bellingham is a perfect replacement for Pogba but will need a few more years development.

Then we need a specialist defensive midfielder, deep-lying midfielder also. Ruben Neves would be nice but I'm not sure we'll spend the 150 million that Wolves would want. Longstaff might be playing at a higher level by the summer. Declan Rice might be available for the right price too. It won't be easy getting the players we need for midfield as none might be available.

But perhaps a midfield 3 next season could look like - Garner/McTominay - Rice - Grealish
 
It's incredible how over-rated DDG and Pogba are by some posters.

The inconvenient truth is:
  1. DDG is an extremely overpaid past-his-prime player, who is living off of had been great once. Even though he never learned basics like ball distribution and interceptions off the goal-line, his incredible jumping-saves got him enough love. But it is clear for anybody with two eyes that right now he is one of the absolute worst keepers in EPL. I doubt any team would want to have him on the squad, given he's making at least one goal-worthy mistake every match. And his decline started before he got a new contract so he should have never been given one.
  2. Pogba, on average, has not done enough in the United shirt to deserve the level of reverence he gets from some. It's all based on his World Cup performances and blind belief that him not performing at the club level is club's fault. That statement is highly debatable (club football is very different from a knock-out competition, after all, especially EPL football) since Pogba is not a striker and doesn't depend on somebody creating chances for him, but either way - he has not been anywhere near "world class" at United, and it's been 3 years. Him sometimes being better than the rest of a very shitty team doesn't make him world-class.
Also, worth noting: Martial got totally fecked over by Mourinho (who denied him playing time right before the World Cup and was playing him out of position before that) and then Deschamps who took fecking Giroud instead of Tony to the World Cup. If circumstances were different for Martial, maybe he would have also been a World Cup winner and showed himself in a completely different light. We will never know. However, overall his performances for United have been better than Pogba's and yet he doesn't get nearly the recognition
 
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It's not the quality I've a problem with, it's the mentality. Rashford, Maguire and McTominay for me have the required mental strength to carry this club. They have flaws for sure but if we ever get to win the league again in the next 6 years I feel these three players out of the current shambles will be the only mainstays of the starting 11.
AWB, Tuanzebe, Williams, James, Greenwood and Fred can certainly be reliable and may grow in to great players with the right conditions, especially AWB, Williams and Greenwood.
Martial, Pogba and DeGea are big problems for me. Martial although talented just seems like one telling off and he could just stop everything and retire. Pogba plays for just himself. Amazing talent and all but the good stats in a shit team shouldn't distract us from his flaws and the danger of thinking a league winning side can be built around him. De Gea has been the biggest disappointment for me as I've seen him do the impossible yet he fecks us over by not being assertive in his 6 yard box. Before anyone loses their shit, I know that is not his strength but in a team short of confidence like we've been over the last few years a keeper coming out and dealing with shit helps a lot when we have young and shaw in defense. No doubts a world class keeper but moving forward I would love to see someone more commanding.
Any player not mentioned can feck off, either too shit or doesn't give a shit.
 
hobbers said:
Players who deserve to be in the United squad 2020/21:

De Gea
Romero
(Pereira)
(Henderson)

AWB
Lindelof
Tuanzebe
Maguire
(Smalling)
Williams

Fred
James
(Gomes)
McTominay

Rashford
Martial
Greenwood


It's fecking grim. Pogba obviously has the quality but he's gone.
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What have they done to deserve the privilege of wearing the United shirt?
 
simplyared said:
Yes as I like the attitude of James and he will only get better if managed correctly. He's got pace, tenacity, good final ball into the box (which few of our players have) and creative (which few of our players are). Martial imo has reached his peak with us and is way too much hit and miss. Also his attitude I believe can be questioned.
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Yes but wasn't your whole post based around who's got the quality, not the attitude though?
 
Rolaholic said:
Glad I'm not the only one who was scratching my head at that :lol:

James would be no more than a squad player/impact sub at any other top club whereas Martial could make a decent case to start for a few

So many fans seem to think the only way to win is by running hard and non stop when the clubs that consistently win things do it with a mix or skillful/talented players + hard workers,not one over the other
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Yup, not the only one. Honestly at this moment in time, James only has pace and workrate going for him, his very raw otherwise.
 
Santoryo said:
This place has always had posters that delusional. Beside Pogba no one has more quality than Martial when it comes to United outfield players.

You asks these people to tell you how exactly all these other players have more qualities than Martial and they'll start taking you into these long tangent and nonsensical abstract arguments about attitude etc.

Anyone with a set of working eyes would easily tell you quality wise watching our current players that only Pogba alone has more quality than someone like Martial. The rest? Absolutely no way.
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Talent/quality wise, only Pogba is ahead of him in my opinion, Greenwood, Fred and Rashford close behind.
 
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