To keep the QT talk separate from the Westminster stuff.
So, Owen Jones and Iain Duncan-Smith, eh.
So, Owen Jones and Iain Duncan-Smith, eh.
Question Time & This Week
- Thread starter Liam147
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
In
Stopped watching it ages ago. Got sick of all the attention seeking pricks in the audience making 'humorous' comments and vitriolic statements with little substance, followed by mindless cheers.
Owen Jones was excellent I thought, Duncan Smith was his usual vile smarmy Tory scum self, his outburst at the end was pathetic, he clearly just didn't want to here the names of people who died after his policy said they were fit to work.
Spot on.
Between 30 and 50 people die every week because of his policies. He didn't like hearing the truth told to him on national tv and he couldn't defend it either.
And it was resfreshing to actually hear the disabled defended on the BBC for once. Dimbles, was of course, trying to obfuscate the best he could.
Deborah Meaden was way out of her depth. Owen was very good especially is take on Israel and the Housing benefit system.
Owen Jones reminded me of Citizen Smith....Power to the people!
Anyone read his book Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class
Anyone read his book Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class
Jones was very good.
IDS is a wanker but good value on QT I always find.
Kennedy good too.
Good episode last night I thought.
IDS is a wanker but good value on QT I always find.
Kennedy good too.
Good episode last night I thought.
What a surprise Jones went down well on the Caf. He's just an overgrown student who hasn't grown out of extreme leftness yet.
He's way ahead of you Al: OMG HE LOOKS 12 DOES HIS MUM KNOW HE'S UP THIS LATE WHY ISN'T HE DOING HIS PAPER ROUND << just anticipating the tweets later
Maybe you can do a better job defending ATOS than IDS did.
Nah, I'm not sure how well it works as a policy, but it's ludicrous to say it is killing 50 people a week or whatever the Caf is claiming.
FTSE directors give themselves pay rises of 27% while the government hammers the worst off. It's a fecking joke.
There have been some great claims on the Caf but I'd like to see the facts to back that one up.What's the government meant to do, tell the big companies to stop paying their employees so well?
Totally out of her depth.
Didnt she say something along the lines of "...and thats what we need to make sure of before we join the EU.......oh.....we are in the EU"
It was something like that anyway.
Owen Jones was very good on the current Israel / Palestine conflict I thought.
The source is a Mirror investigation and use of the Freedom of Information Act.
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/32-die-a-week-after-failing-in.html
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigations/2012/04/32-die-a-week-after-failing-in.html
The government is not hammering the worst off. You can blame Labour for destroying any kind of aspiration in this country among the poor.
Owen Jones made some reasonable points throughout the programme, but sadly they were intermingled with a hell of a lot of completely ridiculous ones.
He sums up the problem with the far left - they can have some interesting views and it's important to hear them, but they consistently let themselves down through their endless moralising and talking down to people as if they just don't understand what it's like to be someone else with a different opinion. Quoting the names of people who have died on QT is not only unfair to Ian Duncan Smith who clearly is never going to know the exact circumstances so as to comment on them, and also incredibly disrespectful to the families the deceased belonged to.
He sums up the problem with the far left - they can have some interesting views and it's important to hear them, but they consistently let themselves down through their endless moralising and talking down to people as if they just don't understand what it's like to be someone else with a different opinion. Quoting the names of people who have died on QT is not only unfair to Ian Duncan Smith who clearly is never going to know the exact circumstances so as to comment on them, and also incredibly disrespectful to the families the deceased belonged to.
Which of course IDS didn't do by saying "We've heard a lot from you" and repeatedly talking over Owen's points.
Ditto. Attention seeking pricks indeed,
Jones is a bit like somebody who has been plucked from that crowd and given a national platform. He'll probably be doing the paper review on the Stephen Nolan show tonight or tomorrow, trotting out the same old lines.
There's a difference between being patronising and moralising.
So what about his comments that Owen didn't care about the disabled when Labour were in power (completely unfounded) and that he and the current government were making disabled people's lives better?
I'm not saying I'm completely on the side of IDS, but more that Owen Jones was incredibly unfair in his criticism.
Funny that, "consistently letting themselves down through their endless moralising and talking down to people as if they just don't understand what it's like to be someone else with a different opinion" was an issue for the left a few replies ago.
I agree on IDS, he got away with no reply to the points by Owen and no questions at all on his flagship policy being found to be a complete joke.
Alastair, I don't think it's fair to equate your observation there to the left or the right specifically. The right can be equally dismissive of views that aren't their own.
Whenever I see IDS I always think 'surely he wasn't leader of the Tories, am I mixing him up with someone else?'. He's got all the charisma and intellect of a dead haddock
*Parental advisory for Owen Jones fans*
Blinded by his politics.
Blinded by his politics.
Extreme elements of either side are annoying. The left, in my view, moralise more than the right though. Just read the threads on the Caf - 'I vote left because I believe in fairness and justice etc.' It's bollocks.
And that video with Jones is hilarious. What a weapon.
As far as I can tell, wasn't he just stating the obvious on Israel?
Someone said about him that he was excellent for "shouting all the opinions you held beforehand", meaning the audience vociferously agree, making him look like he's actually quite insightful.
He's way ahead of you Al: OMG HE LOOKS 12 DOES HIS MUM KNOW HE'S UP THIS LATE WHY ISN'T HE DOING HIS PAPER ROUND << just anticipating the tweets later
In fairness, when I actually saw him on QT, he did look about 17.
EDIT: Cringeworthy stuff there, Nick. Should probably wrap a spoiler around it.
You wouldn't be looking down on people who hold different opinions to your own there, would you?
Not at all. You can tell me that you vote differently to me or whatever, but I hate people telling me that they're left because they believe in helping the poor etc. You don't have to be a socialist to not want to kill disabled people, but that's somewhat lost on the Caf.
Yesterday was the first time i saw Owen Jones , and he came across as very impressive.Looking forward to reading "The Demonization of the Working Class".
Glad to hear that killing them isn't on the agenda even if taking money off them is.
...and whoever is in charge of Tory PR.
Oh I don't think for a second that Tories want to kill disabled people, they just want to look like they're tackling the welfare state and are not bothered by the consequences.
Closing down Remploy factories and IDS shouting over the names of those who have died after being found fit for work on national TV doesn't do him or the party any favours.
Out of interest, what are the acceptable reasons for being 'left'?
As i didn't watch QT i need to clarify something, Owen Jones in a roundabout way laid a claim of involuntary manslaughter or at the least criminal neglect at the feet of IDS?
The existing DLA system was unwieldy and in need of reform. More disabled people than you might suppose are in a position to work but instead are given benefits and forgotten. The money may ease the conscience of able bodies people like Jones however still leaves many detached from society. And to a degree not recognised in this thread, a good portion of the burden falls upon local authorities, and whether Labour or Tory they only achieve so much.
Labour and its supporters may be more vocal for the needy yet their effectiveness is vastly overstated IMO.
The existing DLA system was unwieldy and in need of reform. More disabled people than you might suppose are in a position to work but instead are given benefits and forgotten. The money may ease the conscience of able bodies people like Jones however still leaves many detached from society. And to a degree not recognised in this thread, a good portion of the burden falls upon local authorities, and whether Labour or Tory they only achieve so much.
Labour and its supporters may be more vocal for the needy yet their effectiveness is vastly overstated IMO.
There's absolutely no defence for using ATOS to do the assessments, and people have died as a result. There's endless mountains of evidence out there in support of this, and it would probably be a massive scandal if we didn't live in a society that largely views the disabled as sub-human.
Yeah, if you need to add sound effects to political debate you probably shouldn't bother.