That was a reasonably grown up show compared to the circus it's been in recent weeks. The panel weren't frothing at the mouth and actually listened to what eachother had to say. The audience members weren't all raging feckwits either.
Question Time & This Week
- Thread starter Liam147
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Understandable.
Not proud about it, but we all have a bit of inner nimby. Who the feck would welcome their back garden becoming one of the top four flightpaths in Europe.
Panellist: "We need to have an adult discussion about the NHS."
Response from audience: Shout her downa nd behave like children.
Response from audience: Shout her downa nd behave like children.
It would help if she didn't insult their intelligence.
Also found Andy Burnham quite insufferable, with his 'look at me, wasn't i brilliant in government' egotism. The way he was carrying on about his time as Health Secretary you'd think that the Mid Staffs scandal didn't partly fall on his watch.
Only heard the last quarter hour, so maybe the Carilion discussion was more productive.
Only heard the last quarter hour, so maybe the Carilion discussion was more productive.
Look, the nurses had a point but so did she. Very few in that audience wanted to hear about they could do to help reduce demand, they'd turned into a rabble.
People who are struggling to live don't want to hear how much you love them when your actions are fecking them over. Shock fecking horror.
You'll have to explain how Munira Mirza's actions are doing that?
I thought you were talking about Margot James. Don't remember Mirza getting shouted at.
I'll need to watch it back to be sure, but it sounded like her voice to me.
Because they know what the panelist really means is 'we need cuts in the NHS'
Is there any reason last night's episode isn't available on iPlayer? I thought maybe an incident had happened which meant they'd had to take it down, but it's sounds like the usual malarkey.
I guess you completely ignored those moment where she said that the NHS should get mroe money.
We can find money for higher pay, we can increase our training capacity for nurses and make their lives easier, however a good portion of the overcrowding problem falls on us as individuals. Frivolous visits to either the GP surgery or A&E are well beyond a minor inconvenience, particularly now. Favouring our own social lives over the short-term care of loved ones at home, that counts too. For even were there a willing government, rerversing Labour's and the ConLib closures of convalescent hospitals will take years. There is personal responsibility not only in the form of further taxation, but one's behaviour.
This is fair...but the problem is that it doesn't actually do anything to fix the problem. I get what you're saying. It'd be ideal if people weren't having to go to A & E because they got too pissed on a night out. Or because they're obese and have poor health habits. Or because they just have a tendency of visiting their GP for frivolous and unnecessary reasons. But it's ultimately little more than a wish and isn't going to address the problem itself.
Phrases like "We need to have an adult discussion about the NHS" might sound well-reasoned and balanced but the problem is they've been used so often to the point where they don't really mean anything. It's essentially another buzzword phrase, one a panelist uses when they know there's problems within the NHS, believe the solutions aren't simple...but don't really have anything themselves to add to the discussion. Which is fair enough...healthcare's incredibly complex with all the various departments, regions etc, and problems which exist can't be solved in one swoop. But "We need to have an adult discussion," doesn't really mean anything at this point unless the person in question defines what that adult conversation entails.
Like I said in the winter crises thread, just enough money to keep people voting Tory, not enough to actually fund the service
And like i said there, you're the NHS equivalent of Alex Jones.
I predicted that phrase would be coming in that thread and it did
Given that neither she nor I have spoken in favour of these mythical cuts of yours, are you disputing her point about demand or not?
Of for goodness sake, are you really naive enough to believe the Tory lies about record levels of funding? They've been strip mining the NHS ever since Hunt took over, exactly as everyone who knew anything about that wretched toad knew they would. They're undercutting the service at every opportunity so they can privatize it, exactly like Hunt has always wanted (and used to have enough balls to openly admit). Of course now he's 'running' the thing, he has to lie and do everything underhandedly, because it spits in the face of what the British people actually want.
Tories aren't going to come out and say let's cut the NHS, they are far too cowardly to do it themselves, the following model is used
To much fanfare central government says they are giving power to local authorities to spend money on a thing, whether that be local government, CCG in the case of the NHS, or police etc.
Central government sets funding, but at a level that can't pay for everything. And before you carry on treating people like idiots funding has gone up but under the cost of inflation, so it's a cut.
These local bodies find they are responsible for implementing this service but haven't got the money to pay for it properly, so they make cuts.
When people complain to Westminster they turn around and say 'we are not in charge, it's the local bodies fault, we give them plenty of money, look at that Romanian over there'
Old people continue to vote Tory, as in their minds, on the balance of all probabilities, yes, it is Romanians fault
When you two have finished auditioning for Labour's new interactive Jeremy Corbyn action figure, maybe we can have a discussion.
You could start by addressing Mozza’s points rather than resorting to insults. Didn’t you just ridicule the audience for failing to take part in the requested adult conversation?
Whether you agree with him or not is beside the point, he’s constructed an argument and your response to it is telling.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/07/vital-nhs-account-acos-legal-challenge
Here comes more localisation, the telling quote is here -
Central government sets budget, local body, ACO in this case, makes the cuts. Nick will pretend it's not happening
Here comes more localisation, the telling quote is here -
Central government sets budget, local body, ACO in this case, makes the cuts. Nick will pretend it's not happening
I think Brexit has broken Nick.
Where's the insult, he freely admits to believing in an NHS conspiracy theory (as do many on this forum in my experrience). More pertinent though, is that both the panellist and I raised the crucial element of demand, which Mozza complete ignored in his responses to me. I am more than happy to talk 'with' people, however Mozza had ceased to doing so.
We've seen hospital closures, cut facilities and a reduced number of beds from every government in my lifetime. Even if there were the money being spent you can't undo many of those things quickly. Unless the public are more responsible, the most optimisitc outlook for next winter might be that we have slightly better paid, but nonetheless exhausted nurses. Patients can't claim to 'love the NHS' on the one hand, whilst making life harder for its medical staff on the other.
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I need a cup of coffee, I thought this was an extremely racist post on first read.
I thought the same when I first read it
thought it was a classic @Penna post. @Nick 0208 Ldn I’ll address your post later, drinking and watching the football now.
That's fine. I might be heading into town to see what this Lumiere festival is like, weather permitting.
yep, if you swapped two words round.It's stopped raining at least. Let me know how it is if you go. Does look pretty cool.
Nothing to say on the article I posted? Nah it's all a conspiracy.
huh what happened?
Sorry Jip, we went to a local gastropub instead.
I'd like to hope that it returns next year, although i'd move it to the spring were i City Hall (less flu and the like).I hadn't read it at that point. Having now done so, i don't think that it is evidence of a Tory Illuminati if that's what you're asking. However...the basis for a legal challenge appears fairly strong. I doubt whether many MPs are even aware of the details (of any hue), which is reason enough in itself. The Government inherited a major problem with PFI there's no denying that, but let's not create another one to pass on because Hunt and some mandarins within the NHS are floundering for quick fixes. The expansive nature of their brief and lack of proper oversight are two concerns that both red and blue backbenchers would share.
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Head in the sand
Bah! My missus went to see Amadeus tonight (which she loved), but might be up for going today, if it isn't raining.Sorry Jip, we went to a local gastropub instead.
It’s ridiculous for Tories to advocate they’re putting record funding in the NHS while cutting social care and forcing the elderly to rely on the NHS instead.
Classic Tory move, never give what you haven’t taken away already.
Classic Tory move, never give what you haven’t taken away already.
Nothing, that's just it. I thought something might have happened that meant they couldn't repeat it but it doesn't sound like that's the case. I've not actually seen the ep, I just went straight to This Week.
Yep, my PFI empire is soccessful that i'm lying on a beach as i type.
Honestly though, you could have made at least one attempt at answering my one question to you.Did you go in the end?