Have we any aspirations at all to finish above Newcastle with a game in hand and they have to play Arsenal amongst others. Surely if we're really looking to finish above Newcastle top four will take care of itself. Yet all the focus seems to be on the teams below us instead of focusing on the team above us by two points but we have that game in hand. Start looking up instead of down and go all out to finish third. Keep hearing 12 points how about as many points as possible out of our remaining fixtures and the rest will take care of itself.
Race for top 4 | Finito.
- Thread starter Andycoleno9
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Remaining games :
United 60 points, potentially 74 points
vs Villa (H) ==> Draw
vs Brighton (A) ==> Lose
vs West Ham (A) ==> Draw
vs Wolves (H) ==> Win
vs Bmouth (A) ==> Win
vs Chelsea (H) ==> Win
vs Fulham (H) ==> Win
Newcastle 62 points, potentially 75 points
vs Southampton (H) ==> Win
vs Arsenal (H) ==> Lose
vs Leeds (A) ==> Win
vs Brighton (H) ==> Win
vs Leicester (A) ==> Win
vs Chelsea (A) ==> Draw
Spurs 54 points, potentially 62 points
vs Pool (A) ==> Lose
vs Palace (H) ==> Win
vs Villa (A) ==> Lose
vs Brendofrd (H) ==> Win
vs Leeds (A) ==> Draw
Villa 54 points, potentially 67 points
vs United (A) ==> Draw
vs Wolves (A) ==> Win
vs Spurs (H) ==> Win
vs Brendofrd (H) ==> Win
vs Pool (A) ==> Lose
vs Brighton (H) ==>Win
Scouses sc*** 53 points, potentially 71 points
vs Spurs (H) ==> Win
vs Fulham (H) ==> Win
vs Brendford (H) ==> Win
vs Leicester (A) ==> Draw
vs Villa (H) ==> Win
vs Southampton (A) ==>Win
United 60 points, potentially 74 points
vs Villa (H) ==> Draw
vs Brighton (A) ==> Lose
vs West Ham (A) ==> Draw
vs Wolves (H) ==> Win
vs Bmouth (A) ==> Win
vs Chelsea (H) ==> Win
vs Fulham (H) ==> Win
Newcastle 62 points, potentially 75 points
vs Southampton (H) ==> Win
vs Arsenal (H) ==> Lose
vs Leeds (A) ==> Win
vs Brighton (H) ==> Win
vs Leicester (A) ==> Win
vs Chelsea (A) ==> Draw
Spurs 54 points, potentially 62 points
vs Pool (A) ==> Lose
vs Palace (H) ==> Win
vs Villa (A) ==> Lose
vs Brendofrd (H) ==> Win
vs Leeds (A) ==> Draw
Villa 54 points, potentially 67 points
vs United (A) ==> Draw
vs Wolves (A) ==> Win
vs Spurs (H) ==> Win
vs Brendofrd (H) ==> Win
vs Pool (A) ==> Lose
vs Brighton (H) ==>Win
Scouses sc*** 53 points, potentially 71 points
vs Spurs (H) ==> Win
vs Fulham (H) ==> Win
vs Brendford (H) ==> Win
vs Leicester (A) ==> Draw
vs Villa (H) ==> Win
vs Southampton (A) ==>Win
In context of top 4 race Casemiro form is way more worrying than the fact we got 1 point from away fixture against Tottenham away.
So Liverpool are going to turn into world beaters and win all their games. OK.
They have 4 home games from the last 6, with the 2 away games against arguably the two worst teams in the league. They'll win every game methinks.
They don't need to be world beaters to win those 6 games.
Even Villa have won 8 of their last 10.
If we can't get 12 points from remaining 21 then we don't deserve to be in top 4 anyways. I think we will be fine. I would have loved is to get to the 75 point mark but that seems difficult but we will get top 4.
Spurs would have 61 points and Liverpool would have 69 according to your predictions
Anfield is no fortress this season. Forest should have got something last weekend if they could defend set pieces.
Have Liverpool under Klopp won last nine games of the season when they haven't been in title race or for that matter any other team .
Or have United fallen out ofTop 4 once they were in it so late in the season just out of curiosity .
So even with a defeat and 2 draws in next 3 games we're looking good although hopefully we'll win at least one in those 3.
If we were to blow it from here it would be a horrible season despite the CC win. Surely these brain fart bottle job merchants can get us over the line.
Yes we have injuries and have played a lot of games but the mentality is the biggest and most worrying issue.
I cannot see more than 12 points from our remaining games with the way we are playing, hopefully that should be enough to see us through.
Yes we have injuries and have played a lot of games but the mentality is the biggest and most worrying issue.
I cannot see more than 12 points from our remaining games with the way we are playing, hopefully that should be enough to see us through.
What has that got to do with anything? Had we been beaten 7-0 at Anfield before it happened?
What's happened up to now is irrelevant now.
Can Liverpool win their next 6 games which look very easy on paper? Yes they definitely could.
Are we capable of an end of season collapse? Yes, we've seen it before and recent games don't give any confidence we won't do it again.
Liverpool got very lucky a few seasons ago when their late charge was helped by our schedule (2 games in 3 days including them at OT) after the pitch invasion
they’ve been lucky in last two games too and might be lucky again but it’s in United’s hands
if we really fear Villa & Brighton that much we shouldn’t be looking at Europe’s elite competition
time to stand up & get this tired team up for our last few games
can only imagine how wrecked they would be had they beaten sevilla
they’ve been lucky in last two games too and might be lucky again but it’s in United’s hands
if we really fear Villa & Brighton that much we shouldn’t be looking at Europe’s elite competition
time to stand up & get this tired team up for our last few games
can only imagine how wrecked they would be had they beaten sevilla
I wouldn't be surprised if we only picked up another point away from home. Need to beat Villa now which at least we are at home but they're in great form. Brighton away I can't see us winning and the crowd will be well behind them which we don't cope very well with. A draw to Villa and then we're on our way to bottling it.
Plenty more points will be dropped by everyone. We should have given ourselves a good enough position to be alright.
It would take something very silly for us to not finish in the top 4, literally no chance we blow it from here.
Some fans seem to only look at the worst case scenarios all the time.
Some fans seem to only look at the worst case scenarios all the time.
Liverpool don't have all easy games on paper you are choosing to believe so and their form is no better than us .
How much of a hypocrite are you so earlier precedences dont matter when it comes to Liverpool if they don't support your points but when it comes to United past season collapses are fair game got it .
Look Stranger things have happened in football so anything is possible so I won't discount it but as things stand I would rather be in United's position than Liverpool .
Odds wise we are more likely to blow it than we were to not win last night's game at half time. Saying 'literally no chance' is nonsense.
We have to lose 4 out of next 5 give to give anyone a chance - and even then it's a longshot, because most our chasers play each other.
Did anyone say they wouldn't?
It's done, the betting odds are a good indicator of an objective perspective on this without fan nerves. Newcastle and United fighting it out for third is the only variable left in play realistically.
Personally I think the current order is the final order.
Personally I think the current order is the final order.
How the feck are Newcastle scoring 4 goals in every away game 
In this scenario Liverpool would be ahead of us in the league in 2 weeks time. There’s absolutely no way these mentality midgets would then go and win their final 4 games if that happened.
Anything other than a win against Villa and we’d be kicking off at Brighton only 2 points ahead of Liverpool. People need to realise they will win all of their remaining games and it’s therefore going to be a big slog to hold them off. It would take a real feck up for us not to do it though, as our league form is actually still decent and we’ve plenty of home games.
Yeah the last thing we want is to be going into those last 4 needing to win them all.
How much pessimistic can you be...
How the feck are Newcastle scoring 4 goals in every away game
They're in top form and have an excellent manager.
That said, I think they're benefiting from teams setting up with the aim of taking the game to them. If teams were more conservative, they'd struggle to break them down.
We are 7 points ahead of the only realistic competitor with a game in hand on them too. And in an FA Cup final after winning the league Cup.
A draw is fine yesterday. Before the game I would have taken a draw. The way it panned out and how shit they were, yeah you have to win it, but at the end of the day, not the worst, it was away to Spurs (they beat City here), we just played 120 minutes and have the most games played this season with a meh squad... It's alright. The math to guarantee top 4 over Liverpool was 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses assuming they go perfect. Well that was our 1 draw. After this next set of weekend - midweek - weekend games, we'll have our first midweek break since August. So that will be huge.
A draw is fine yesterday. Before the game I would have taken a draw. The way it panned out and how shit they were, yeah you have to win it, but at the end of the day, not the worst, it was away to Spurs (they beat City here), we just played 120 minutes and have the most games played this season with a meh squad... It's alright. The math to guarantee top 4 over Liverpool was 4 wins, 1 draw and 3 losses assuming they go perfect. Well that was our 1 draw. After this next set of weekend - midweek - weekend games, we'll have our first midweek break since August. So that will be huge.
Villa only have 5 games not 6 they’ve played Brentford at home they have 3 away games and 2 home games and they have Liverpool and United away. I do see them maybe getting 10 points from those 5 games and causing an upset against either Liverpool or united. That’s 64 points.
Unlike you, I think Liverpool are getting worse way 69 points but probably win all 6 and get 71 points that means we need to really get 5 or 6 points in next three very tough games to make things calm down.
Win on Sunday in front of 75,000 we will be almost there as we then need 3 more wins from 6 games, it’s simple United need 4 wins from 7 games we might get away with 3 wins and 1 draw but that’s not guaranteed. With our awful GD we need 4 wins and the sooner we do it the quicker we can think about a FA Cup Final.
The goal is always to win every game regardless of whether the fans are looking up or down, so I'm not sure what the point is?
The discussion is over what's the minimum number of points needed to guarantee top 4.
We're not going to purposely or accidentally drop points because we forgot to try finish above Newcastle. We're trying to win every game anyway.
Realistic
Lads, it's over we are done for top 4 and will do well to even get 5th. Liverpool are guaranteed to secure every remaining point they can because they are just so good. Meanwhile we will definitely drop 6 points to Villa and Brighton. We'll be lucky to get a draw against West Ham as Moyes will have them raring to hurt our top 4 chances.. Bournemouth are a jammy team that will be fighting to their death the rest of the way to stay up, so can't see us getting more than a point there. Wolves, Chelsea and Fulham at home, while we have a great home record of course it's these 3 bogey teams. Chelsea can't buy a win but knowing us we'll hand it to them. Wolves been a notorious bogey team for us, can't see a win there. Fulham will be absolutely flying and coming in for revenge on the last day of the season wanting to put a nail in our top 4 coffin after the FA Cup match which they think they should be in our FA Cup Final spot if it wasn't for idiotic red cards on their part (even though Sancho was 100% scoring and it would have been 1-1 and momentum on our side)
It's over. top 4 dream is dead. We'll be lucky to finish top 7 can see Villa, Spurs and Brighton all finishing ahead of us as well.
Am I dooming right?
It's over. top 4 dream is dead. We'll be lucky to finish top 7 can see Villa, Spurs and Brighton all finishing ahead of us as well.
Am I dooming right?
It's worth noting we keep saying we need 4 wins but not strictly true.
3 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss will also get us the magic 12 points. Very important we don't lose games.
3 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss will also get us the magic 12 points. Very important we don't lose games.
First of all, everyone can forget about Brighton because they've still got Arsenal, Newcastle, City, and us to play and there's no chance they're getting through those matches with any more than 4 of the available 12 points. In fact they'll be lucky to get 1 point from all those matches (draw against us). So they're not in for it in any real sense.
Whichever of Spurs/Liverpool lose on Sunday are done. If they draw, they're honestly probably both done. I'd prefer Spurs win that match because Liverpool look to have the easier schedule of the two.
If Liverpool win on Sunday, they'll be the only club with any chance of catching us if we completely bottle it, but even then it's a long shot.
Whichever of Spurs/Liverpool lose on Sunday are done. If they draw, they're honestly probably both done. I'd prefer Spurs win that match because Liverpool look to have the easier schedule of the two.
If Liverpool win on Sunday, they'll be the only club with any chance of catching us if we completely bottle it, but even then it's a long shot.
We should have this. Varane back for the finish, hopefully.
As for Liverpool, nah. But it could be close, actually. They're on a roll, and that is more than many considered possible not too long ago.
Klopp: he's bounced back before. Actually, that's a trait of his as a manager. It would be foolish to underestimate him.
As for Liverpool, nah. But it could be close, actually. They're on a roll, and that is more than many considered possible not too long ago.
Klopp: he's bounced back before. Actually, that's a trait of his as a manager. It would be foolish to underestimate him.
think draw def the best, then both teams have dropped 2 points possible. Id prob agree spurs win next best to completely take out pool. Can easily see spurs dropping more points regardless of opponent vs pool. With sancho showing a blip of life in that first half gives us a little more possibilities moving forward. Prob would stick with that front 3 for a bit and just try and hold on as we limp across finish line.
Why is this thread even still alive. There is no chance of us winning our remaining games. In fact every match we lost this season was deserved and no luck from other teams did us in. united are not going to all of a sudden lose 4 matches and Newcastle have way too much confidence in the way they are playing to fold up at this stage. Top four is done and at this point I really don’t care if we miss out on the Europa league even though we qualify for the CL the season after if we win it but then again so does a top four finish and if we can’t get that next season we are well and truly fecked anyway. Stop panicking.
i mean if pool get past spurs only other match that should be even a challenge would be villa. So not exactly far fetched.
Exactly, if people are afraid of Brighton and Villa, imagine them in them Champions League. If we bottle it from here, I wouldn't even want to be in it. Personally, I think we'll get it easily.
this line of thinking is flawed though. The group of players we have now arent the group we will have (god hopefully not) next season. So why do we want to punish ourselves just because we know certain players that wont even be here next year arent good enough? We need champions league to help recruit players. This isnt the past where players Manchester United had a huge amount of sway on where players wanted to be in the premier league.