My glib response was just that. Glib (and lazy). Wouldn't read too much into it (although my disdain for the fickle and irrational nature of public opinion still stands). If you want a more serious response to that tweet, then people who have been raped deserve the utmost support from all angles of society. That is not equivalent to sacrificing people who may or may not be guilty.
Rape Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
My glib response was just that. Glib (and lazy). Wouldn't read too much into it (although my disdain for the fickle and irrational nature of public opinion still stands). If you want a more serious response to that tweet, then people who have been raped deserve the utmost support from all angles of society. That is not equivalent to sacrificing people who may or may not be guilty.
Was he not accused of rape years ago when he was still at United too?
It’s been mentioned in the thread, but there was an accusation around 2005.
Why would the man in that scenario not just pull out?
I would say that if a girl purposefully lied to a guy about contraception, knowing full well the guy would have said no if she didn't take it, and the proceeded to have sex under false premises... That, to me, is a voluntary break of the agreed conditions.
On the first point, I'm not sure how 'aggressiveness during sex' is ever going to be adequately judged by an outsider but I guess there's now precedence for it. I mean, there is always going to be one person taking the lead in sex, whether it's the guy or the girl. Often it interchanges between the two parties during a single session of sex, and some girls are rather insane when they take the lead...
To me, the voluntary break of conditions is more damning, hence why I think it held more weight and why I think my example could be classed as rape.
I agree with your individual code so no worries there.
The bolded bit is the bit that makes me somewhat uncomfortable. It just doesn't sit right in my head in this age of equality.
Anyway, enough of this. I'm off to moan about Mourinho
This is getting way off topic.
If we don't already have a thread about rape/consent then feel free to start one. This thread is about this specific story.
If he is somehow forced to continue then yes.
Don't be stupid. Please stop derailing the tread with ludicrous whataboutisms.
Scared of getting sued.
What I don't get in the rape definition is that when a man throws himself at a women and the women says initially stop stop and then consents it may be considered rape.
But when a women throws herself at a man and the man may want to initially stop but then consents it is not a rape.
Depends on jurisdiction to jurisdiction as well too but this for me is a anomaly.
But when a women throws herself at a man and the man may want to initially stop but then consents it is not a rape.
Depends on jurisdiction to jurisdiction as well too but this for me is a anomaly.
It reflects physical reality. In the majority of situations the woman is at a physical disadvantage to the man and violence or the threat of it (whether that threat is explicitly declared or not) makes it more common for a woman to be coerced, bullied, intimidated or forced into sex or sexual acts that she doesn't want.
There's seldom anything like the same danger for the man. Which whilst it doesn't rule out intimidation or fear as a reason for continuing, makes it far less common between a man and a woman (except where some other vulnerability is involved). Whether that's called rape (rather than some other form of sexual assault) depends on legal definitions which may use penetration as a pre-requisite.
How to have consensual sex as a woman: have sex with anyone, at any time, in any circumstances.
How to have consensual sex as a man: yes means yes, no means no, yes can also mean no. A no could lead to a yes but might still be a no. Was she drunk? Did she change her mind half way? Did you fail to read visual clues?
Yeah no shit men doubt rape claims. But of course it's gotta be cause we harbour some guilt about a rape we're trying to deny right
how to have sex as a person: yes means yes, everything else means no
How to have consensual sex as a woman: have sex with anyone, at any time, in any circumstances.
How to have consensual sex as a man: yes means yes, no means no, yes can also mean no. A no could lead to a yes but might still be a no. Was she drunk? Did she change her mind half way? Did you fail to read visual clues?
Yeah no shit men doubt rape claims. But of course it's gotta be cause we harbour some guilt about a rape we're trying to deny right
also haha isn't rape funny all these silly wimens hahahha similiefaces hahahahaha am i rite men look at all these false rape claims hahahaha dumb women don't know shit loooooool
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Yea because laughing at a tweet implying men who remain sceptical about rape claims are closet rapists is definitely the same as laughing at rape.
maybe the reason why the overwhelming majority of women and a significant number of men say they're been the victim or sex crimes ranging from harassment to rape is because we as a society tolerate and defend harassment, assault and rape, because when men and women come forward they're degraded rather than helped, because assholes would rather laugh at than them listen to them
it happens in every single of these threads "oh, that's no rape, everyone does it"
maybe everyone shouldn't be sexually coercive, or taking advantage of people who are blackout drunk etc. etc.
the tweet is about people defending the widespread rapey sexual behaviours they themselves exhibit but it either went over your head or you wilfully ignored it, choosing instead to be a sexist arsehole to the woman who tweeted itYea because laughing at a tweet implying men who remain sceptical about rape claims are closet rapists is definitely the same as laughing at rape.
it happens in every single of these threads "oh, that's no rape, everyone does it"
maybe everyone shouldn't be sexually coercive, or taking advantage of people who are blackout drunk etc. etc.
Sexist?
The point of her tweet is very clear. I understand exactly what she is saying
But it's ok I have no real investment in this topic anyways. I hope the truth comes out and the guilty party is punished.
yes dou, this is very sexist
hate to be the one who breaks to you
the lack of help male victims of sexual harassment and rape get is disturbing, but you don't have to belittle women to make the point
Accurate assessments of societies inherent bias towards men in sexual encounters isnt sexist.
Hate to be the one to break it to you
Accurate assessments of societies inherent bias towards men in sexual encounters isnt sexist.
Hate to be the one to break it to you
also if your really have to be asking these questions before, during or after a sexual encounter don't be surprised if you raped someone
But there is also the physical reality that men are more likely to give in if a women wants them too due to the male hormones than women.
For example a woman may start removing a married man's clothes, he resists and says no several times but she starts kissing him and he eventually gives in and enjoys it.
Now reverse the situation and it's rape in many jurisdictions even if the women ends up enoying it and consents later.
enjoying it/orgasming etc. Aren't proof you weren't rape, if a woman rides you when you're blackout drunk on the floor and you cum buckets she still raped you
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Jesus fecking heck her interview is damning but the part about the questionnaire he signed off on is mind boggling "In response to the question of whether Ms. C had ever raised her voice, screamed or called out, X answered according to the document: “She said no and stop several times.” And furthermore: “I fecked her from the side. She made herself available. She was lying on her side, in bed, and I entered her from behind. It was rude. We didn’t change position. 5/7 minutes."
I'm gutted tbf I cant believe Ronaldo would do this, no means no dude just fecking get off of her. FFS.
I'm gutted tbf I cant believe Ronaldo would do this, no means no dude just fecking get off of her. FFS.
Wait, when you're trying to pick up a woman at a bar and she initially says no, but after a while agrees to go home with you and have consensual sex is also rape? So, everyone who's had sex with women who played hard to get first is a rapist now aswell? I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous.
yes that is exactly what she said she couldn't possibly have been talking about other very similar and common experiences women have like this one
women also secretly mean they are going put every single men in jail for ever staring below eye level when they talk about perverts
they secretly mean they're going castrate everyone when they say someone groped them in the supermarket
the really whammy is that when women report being sexually harassed and worse more times than they can count they actually mean they're going to put men in a matrix style machine and just use us for biological resources
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How is that similar to what I was saying?! In that thing you posted the guy is a creep and the woman would never agree to go home with him. Anyway, move the goalposts how far as you want to try to fit your argument but I don't really want to be a part of one of your instigated witchhunts today. Because it's clear that you're out for one again today. Peace.
I'm guessing Vato is referring to a slightly more nuanced situation where the two participants already know each other and are friendly going into a date situation.
no one is forcing you to respond so don't
it's clear that v was talking about the kind of harassment described in the reddit post
but if you really are spending entire nights out getting no after no from the same women until eventually one night one woman says yes than you are one of the creepy men women tell their friends stories about vato
this is the background information for the majority of rapes
Now that Ronaldo has come out and denied it all the big news agencies will run with it. No chance of getting sued for reporting he denied it.
Not disagreeing, just pointing out that it was a bit different than the reddit thread you posted.
I only picked that one because it was the top post on the womens issues sub, there are frequent stories of coercion from boyfriends on there though
I don't think she's saying that a man having sex with a woman who played hard to get is a rapist. If you're unsure whether the woman is playing hard to get, or just really isn't interested, better to err on the side of caution and change targets. Otherwise, you might end up pestering a woman till she relents, and you potentially give her a very negative sexual experience. Might be that she didn't actually want to have sex, but she feared what would happen if she didn't accept. At that point, you coerced someone into having sex with you, and that's rape.
I'd go one step further: if you're actively targeting someone for sex it's predatory behaviour. Don't target people for sex. Unless you're literally a swingers party don't like think anyone who half smiled at you wants something.
"I think the reason y’all believe women lie about rape is because y’all have had “unclear” sexual situations and don’t want to be labeled a rapist."
Flat out saying that the reason men think women lie about rape is because they've possibly raped someone.
"Like when you waited until that girl was piss drunk to take her home. Or when that girl who said no 20 times finally said yes."
Examples of rape, like a woman being drunk, or a woman saying no then changing her mind.
"Because those situations are rape and you don’t want to accept that you’ve been complicit so you try to make it seem like women are lying so you’ll feel better about yourself."
Just going to bold it for you so you can see what she is clearly saying.
But somehow, and quite baffling so, you defend her tweet as if it is doing anything other than flat out accusing men of being rapey for having the audacity to believe things like women lie about rape (which they have done) or believing in innocent till proven guilty (that silly little notion we've came to ignore in our online lynchings).
And to top it all off you have to go and personally insult vato, for what reason?
can't consent
coercion
yes those things are rape dou
have you had sex with someone you picked up piss drunk or had to be asked 20 times dou?
Going out on the pull is predatory now lads!
Was you born in a convent? You do realise both sexes often go out to clubs with the intent of having sex right?
Don't go out looking for just sex unless you're at a swingers party guys! I can't believe what I'm reading!
"Target people for sex" - He makes casual sex seem like an assassination attempt
have you actively targeted a person for sex dou? did you continue when they said no? did you try to wear someone down?Going out on the pull is predatory now lads!
Was you born in a convent? You do realise both sexes often go out to clubs with the intent of having sex right?
Don't go out looking for just sex unless you're at a swingers party guys! I can't believe what I'm reading!
"Target people for sex" - He makes casual sex seem like an assassination attempt
Drunk people can't consent? Are you insane? I'm pretty sure 99% of first time sex happens with both parties drunk. We're all raping each other it seems!
Piss drunk as in can't talk or move? No of course not I'm not a fecking idiot. But regular drunk? Umm... yes? Lots? Am I a rapist now?
EDIT: I love how after talking such obvious shit you can now only default to asking me random questions about my sexual experiences to try to assert if I've ever raped someone
You're a lunatic mate. Absolutely off your rocker. Go get your head checked please.
Should we do a separate rape discussion thread since this one seems to be veering off from Ronaldo ?
so why not ask what she means by piss drunk instead of continuing with this illiterate greensimilie bullshit?Drunk people can't consent? Are you insane? I'm pretty sure 99% of first time sex happens with both parties drunk. We're all raping each other it seems!
Piss drunk as in can't talk or move? No of course not I'm not a fecking idiot. But regular drunk? Umm... yes? Lots? Am I a rapist now?
yes this is a very different thing to two slightly drunk people having sex