If only one of them knew how to make a run back post. Can't have both of them starting again.
Rashford and Martial are a problem
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Martial was SO bad in that first half that Harry felt the need to constantly make a run into the box. Embarrassing from Martial yet again.
Rashford is nowhere near as bad. It’s not favouritism it’s just a basic observation.
Martial did feckin nothing in that game. Its effectively playing with 10 men.
I honestly hope Ole moves him on in the next window. I would be more than happy to see him leave as long as we had a replacement (which isn’t hard as you could pick anybody with legs and a desire to run.)
Rashford is nowhere near as bad. It’s not favouritism it’s just a basic observation.
Martial did feckin nothing in that game. Its effectively playing with 10 men.
I honestly hope Ole moves him on in the next window. I would be more than happy to see him leave as long as we had a replacement (which isn’t hard as you could pick anybody with legs and a desire to run.)
What I don't understand is Ole taking off Greenwood when he was our best attacking player against West Ham, only to not start him today and persist with Rashford on the right.
Rashford should be starting on the left with Martial coming off the bench or rotating when needs be. Shaw and Rashford work well together and we're completely unbalanced without Greenwood on the right.
Rashford should be starting on the left with Martial coming off the bench or rotating when needs be. Shaw and Rashford work well together and we're completely unbalanced without Greenwood on the right.
Rashy needs to stop the little flicks. But at least can't be faulted on effort.
That's always been the Martial criticism. Great when everything is going well, no impact in this sort of game.
Huge 3months ahead for him.
That's always been the Martial criticism. Great when everything is going well, no impact in this sort of game.
Huge 3months ahead for him.
We've tricked ourselves into thinking that these two have a partnership. They don't. They're too random players who play in the first 11...and, in truth, both are lucky to be getting game-time, imo. Martial, in particular.
They don't work as part of a front three and we can't trust Martial to lead the line as he doesn't have neither the attributes nor the desire or workrate to make it work. I'd be very reluctant to play both in the first 11 any time soon.
They don't work as part of a front three and we can't trust Martial to lead the line as he doesn't have neither the attributes nor the desire or workrate to make it work. I'd be very reluctant to play both in the first 11 any time soon.
On current moment I really fecking can't withstand watching both on the pitch at the same time. At least bench one of them ffs.
I think Ole is trying to ease the pressure and/or limit the minutes for Greenwood, who is a teenager after all.
He's taking a long term view, as always. Martial is the older player, give him games and see where it takes us and then reassess his place once the season is done.
The more Martial keeps up his abysmal form, the easier it'd be to eventually be rid of him. I can see him being loaned out or something with a view to get rid next season.
Looks like our owners/scouts have a hard on for fast strikers that can play out wide, have almost zero ability to set each other up and can only play one way. We just have 3 random strikers as an attack. Basically the tactic Fergie used when we were chasing games but not from the start. It’s not working. They are getting in each other’s way a lot more than creating for each other.
I was worried amad was going to be just another speedster who’s happier cutting in (and slowing us down in the process) but he looks to be fairly creative and should hopefully stretch teams.Even If sancho came in last summer and martial goes out of the team I’m not sure that stops Rashford from wasting attack after attack running into crowds and cutting back while the oppo defence get back in shape. The one bit of danger Rashford provided was actually on the right was when he was direct and just crossed the ball into the danger area in the first half. We need players who will actually keep doing that throughout a match. Not just once but constantly testing their full back and pulling central defenders out. Committing players and making them make mistakes and pick up bookings and turn up the pressure. It just doesn’t happen. We always come inside at a walking pace and clog the middle trying to be too cute. Recycle to full back. Out to midfield and start again. Pace counts for nothing when the opposition is dug in and from what I can see pace is Rashford and Martials main weapon.
Martial nothing really more to say. Awful all season and his place should be under threat if he’s not still untouchable, maybe if they let the managers pick who we buy and sell and renew....
Cavani. Why are we fully reliant on a 34 year old free transfer to carry our attack in the premier league if we were so confident in what we already had. This is on the owners as much as any manager at this stage. They will neither lead nor follow and it’s pretty clear they meddle and they don’t actually have a clue what they are at. Crap match but that’s the reality of our full strength team at the moment. We can win on individual moments of quality but our attack is simply not a good enough unit to do it week in week out.
I was worried amad was going to be just another speedster who’s happier cutting in (and slowing us down in the process) but he looks to be fairly creative and should hopefully stretch teams.Even If sancho came in last summer and martial goes out of the team I’m not sure that stops Rashford from wasting attack after attack running into crowds and cutting back while the oppo defence get back in shape. The one bit of danger Rashford provided was actually on the right was when he was direct and just crossed the ball into the danger area in the first half. We need players who will actually keep doing that throughout a match. Not just once but constantly testing their full back and pulling central defenders out. Committing players and making them make mistakes and pick up bookings and turn up the pressure. It just doesn’t happen. We always come inside at a walking pace and clog the middle trying to be too cute. Recycle to full back. Out to midfield and start again. Pace counts for nothing when the opposition is dug in and from what I can see pace is Rashford and Martials main weapon.
Martial nothing really more to say. Awful all season and his place should be under threat if he’s not still untouchable, maybe if they let the managers pick who we buy and sell and renew....
Cavani. Why are we fully reliant on a 34 year old free transfer to carry our attack in the premier league if we were so confident in what we already had. This is on the owners as much as any manager at this stage. They will neither lead nor follow and it’s pretty clear they meddle and they don’t actually have a clue what they are at. Crap match but that’s the reality of our full strength team at the moment. We can win on individual moments of quality but our attack is simply not a good enough unit to do it week in week out.
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I have to agree with this. There's also a bit of a cultural shift with players wanting to be these winger/attacking midfielder/number 10 style players (aka a Messi or Ronaldo) rather than a van Nistelrooy. Imo, we're seeing this a lot with Rashford, who is playing in a few different positions and isn't really becoming an expert in any of them. We seem to value "versatility" a bit too much, imo. We really need these players to start nailing down their positions and to become better at that.
Rashford is brainless with the ball but does at least try.
Martial couldnt and hasn't given a shit in any game. Doesn't want to press, ever. Doesn't want to sprint, ever. Doesn't ever look fussed.
Martial is finished here and Rashford needs some actual competition. And when I say competition I mean from as an inside left attacker, not a striker. Because he isn't one.
Martial couldnt and hasn't given a shit in any game. Doesn't want to press, ever. Doesn't want to sprint, ever. Doesn't ever look fussed.
Martial is finished here and Rashford needs some actual competition. And when I say competition I mean from as an inside left attacker, not a striker. Because he isn't one.
What we need to add to this attacking duo, is another 50-100m young winger that has inconsistent performance.
Yess..
Yess..
When this thread was made I thought it was massively reactionary and would be proven wrong. Now I just think you are absolutely bang on and called it all along. Both of them lack the intensity to play in a high energy team. Rashford can’t keep the ball, while martial hides from it. Both of them are a big part of why we haven’t played well this season. We are desperate for a freshen up in attack.
Can we buy two top wingers this summer? Sick and tired of relying on these two for so many years to ever become consistent. They just never will.
I'd still keep Rashford but we need to grow some balls and let Martial go. Has to be said.
I'd still keep Rashford but we need to grow some balls and let Martial go. Has to be said.
Yup, huge problem, especially Martial.
People still not want Grealish as Rashford plays LW? Grealish would've come up with a lot better than Rashford and Martial today, they were pitiful, a horrible watch.
Grealish would be an instant upgrade on both, I couldn't careless if Rashford plays LW, if Grealish is the difference to us actually challenging, then I say pay whatever it takes. If Rashford wants that LW spot, he'll have to earn it because as things stand, he's getting free reign at it and we can't have that.
Grealish would be an instant upgrade on both, I couldn't careless if Rashford plays LW, if Grealish is the difference to us actually challenging, then I say pay whatever it takes. If Rashford wants that LW spot, he'll have to earn it because as things stand, he's getting free reign at it and we can't have that.
One is terribly off form and thinks he is Messi and the other one is just ain't bothered.
We can't carry both. The difference is that Rashford has moments of brilliance, and also can produce top notch performances.
Martial offers nothing to the squad right now. Both should not feature in the same starting 11 again this season.
If you play on the wings, you have to get in at the back post when the ball is being crossed from the opposite wing. It's so basic, how is Old not absolutely hammering them for their lack of desire to get in those positions?
Martial offers nothing to the squad right now. Both should not feature in the same starting 11 again this season.
If you play on the wings, you have to get in at the back post when the ball is being crossed from the opposite wing. It's so basic, how is Old not absolutely hammering them for their lack of desire to get in those positions?
Rashford isn't. He's a winger we expect striker's numbers from. His output is fine for the player he really is.
Martial is having the worst season of his career at the time when he should be kicking on. He had a really good 19/20, has a coach that supports him/understand the role to a T, and he's giving us this shite week in, week out. Unless he has a storming end to the campaign, he'll be gone.
Martial is having the worst season of his career at the time when he should be kicking on. He had a really good 19/20, has a coach that supports him/understand the role to a T, and he's giving us this shite week in, week out. Unless he has a storming end to the campaign, he'll be gone.
They're both a bit rubbish. Can't think of too many Top teams that would have players as brainless as them in their team as their first choice forwards. Unfortunately, we're not a top team anymore.
I'm sick and tired of them Robbie
His effort is absolutely appalling, to the point that he's statistically one of the laziest forwards in football. He's quite literally in the bottom 1% of Wide Forwards/AMs from ALL of the Big 5 leagues combined, across multiple effort categories... and rarely even comes CLOSE to average across any metric.
Somehow even Martial is putting up better effort stats. It's hard to overstate how little Rashford does off ball in a defensive sense. The only 'Green' in the entire image is from players absolutely blowing by him because he doesn't even attempt to tackle them.
I still think Rashford is clearly preferable to Martial, due to being more impactful on the ball, but that's much more of an indictment on Martial than a positive for Rashford. They've both become huge problems for us.
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Both are squad players if we’re being serious.
yup. I totally agree. I hope we end up wrong but that’s the way its going at the moment. I’m also convinced Martial has pulled a strop again too because Cavani has came in. If you don’t like competition you’re at the wrong (right, sigh) club. Where is the competition for these lads? There’s no setback to them only performing like top professionals one game in five. Hopefully it’s just an age thing but I’m far from convinced. I like the manager and like the way he’s managed the egos and made us more likeable again. Recruitment is slowly turning around. Maybe not fast enough but that’s not on Ole. Give him the tools to win and let’s evaluate from there. He’s hanging on in there managing a squad with players from 4 different managers and youth graduates. I think if he got Haaland and a winger (not like he hasn’t tried!) we’d be much more convincing and aggressive in general.
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Who would you start over them?
Sancho and Haaland
If there's a chance of signing Grealish, without having to go to British record levels, we should take it.
The days of asking where he'd play now seem silly.
He plays, it's who plays around him.
The days of asking where he'd play now seem silly.
He plays, it's who plays around him.
I don't believe we own those players.
DamningHis effort is absolutely appalling, to the point that he's statistically one of the laziest forwards in football. He's quite literally in the bottom 1% of Wide Forwards/AMs from ALL of the Big 5 leagues combined, across multiple effort categories... and rarely even comes CLOSE to average across any metric.
Somehow even Martial is putting up better effort stats. It's hard to overstate how little Rashford does off ball in a defensive sense. The only 'Green' in the entire image is from players absolutely blowing by him because he doesn't even attempt to tackle them.
I still think Rashford is clearly preferable to Martial, due to being more impactful on the ball, but that's much more of an indictment on Martial than a positive for Rashford. They've both become huge problems for us.
At this point, a kid from the U23s would make more of an impact than Martial, at least they'd try.
Sometimes it sucks to be right.
For now we dont have much choice, but going forward we need to bring in new players for their spots.
I'd say it would have the actual complete opposite effect. Who is going to take him on the kind of salary he's on? The only way to move him is to get a stretch of good performances and even then it'd be tricky to get him to take a pay cut with his next team since I can't see anybody who would even get close to what United is paying him.
We can’t really afford to carry both of them at the moment. We also don’t really need to, that’s a problem the manager has created by dropping Greenwood so often.
Think Ole is the biggest problem as he keeps trying to play them both at the same time. It is one or the other. Only thing in Rashford's favour is he puts more effort in, but somebody has to remind him it is a team sport.
I would have said a month ago no there ok, but the last 3 games at least it's obvious there is a drop in performance, Rashford for me is the main worry, his decision making is awful he shoots when he should pass and passes when a shot is on. I know why he doesn't shoot, because he doesn't want a block to fall into the opposition and break away, as theres no trust on those behind, that's 1 point the other is hes for me low on confidence. Martial has always been the same, I think hes on sleeping tablets at times, he can be dreadful, then he can go on a few games hes very good. These issues need to be addressed.
We can see it the staff can as well, what can they change it to ? Maybe the Europa league can change there mind set a different setting a different country to spark something in them.
And is Rashfords off field commitments starting to affect him? Who knows I dont think so but it has to be asked. Plus hes still young and he will get ups and downs.
We can see it the staff can as well, what can they change it to ? Maybe the Europa league can change there mind set a different setting a different country to spark something in them.
And is Rashfords off field commitments starting to affect him? Who knows I dont think so but it has to be asked. Plus hes still young and he will get ups and downs.
The issue is not rashy and martial, its just martial
He is lazy, soft, miserable and disinterested.
Drop martial, move rashy to the left and greenwood to the right.
Oles perserverance with martial is totally unjust. Diallo should be given some game time
He is lazy, soft, miserable and disinterested.
Drop martial, move rashy to the left and greenwood to the right.
Oles perserverance with martial is totally unjust. Diallo should be given some game time
Agree. I would be trying to blend Amad in as soon as possible, not starting, but coming on. Hopefully not too late to make an impact. I would even put Greenwood up top to give Cavani a break now and again.
I think they are both definitely a problem at the moment but it's also a problem with McT and Fred as well. That's 4 players in the front 6 who aren't really creating for different reasons, Cavani is not really a creative player either although at least creates space with his movement. Throw in Bruno who whilst he can make a difference at any time can also be a bit erratic and it's not a great picture. Essentially Shaw is our more reliable creative threat.
At the end of the day we are 2nd but it does feel that we could find ourselves in a top 4 fight if we don't find that consistency that doesn't really feel like it's coming.
Hopefully Pogba will be back soon as think we need the extra creativity from deep he can bring but we have to find a way to fix the attack.
The annoying thing, imo at least, is that whilst there is a limitation to Fred/McT as a duo, in terms of Rashford/Martial it does feel self inflicted. Both have some similar issues in terms of the attacking runs they don't make in the box consistently enough but they also have their own individual problems. Rashford is just not making good decisions in terms of when to release the ball and when to make runs to create space for others. Martial isn't adapting his game and letting himself drift through games when the team doesn't play the way he's trying to play, as much as Rashford frustrates me/I do worry he's a bit overrated Martial could certainly do with a bit of the attitude Rashford has in terms of wanting to make something happen himself/being a bit selfish. Whilst I'm clearly not a coach I would think most of the problems could be at least partially resolved through training if the players are receptive to it. Certainly in attack we don't feel like a cohesive unit even beyond these 2.
It would help if we could move the ball forward a bit quicker though and that is a problem behind them with the defenders and McT/Fred. I really can't think of many (if any) situations where we're able to work the ball quickly to get Martial or Rashford one on one with their fullback. Yes on current form they might not do much with it but would think that's what we should be trying to do as a tactic. Both have got the pace/dribbling to cause problems if they can get in to that position.
That said it feels like Greenwood is the player in better form that either currently, certainly in how he looks to play with the team as a whole but we're going to need to find a way to get them and the wider team playing. The pattern of play was again very familiar against a compact team.
At the end of the day we are 2nd but it does feel that we could find ourselves in a top 4 fight if we don't find that consistency that doesn't really feel like it's coming.
Hopefully Pogba will be back soon as think we need the extra creativity from deep he can bring but we have to find a way to fix the attack.
The annoying thing, imo at least, is that whilst there is a limitation to Fred/McT as a duo, in terms of Rashford/Martial it does feel self inflicted. Both have some similar issues in terms of the attacking runs they don't make in the box consistently enough but they also have their own individual problems. Rashford is just not making good decisions in terms of when to release the ball and when to make runs to create space for others. Martial isn't adapting his game and letting himself drift through games when the team doesn't play the way he's trying to play, as much as Rashford frustrates me/I do worry he's a bit overrated Martial could certainly do with a bit of the attitude Rashford has in terms of wanting to make something happen himself/being a bit selfish. Whilst I'm clearly not a coach I would think most of the problems could be at least partially resolved through training if the players are receptive to it. Certainly in attack we don't feel like a cohesive unit even beyond these 2.
It would help if we could move the ball forward a bit quicker though and that is a problem behind them with the defenders and McT/Fred. I really can't think of many (if any) situations where we're able to work the ball quickly to get Martial or Rashford one on one with their fullback. Yes on current form they might not do much with it but would think that's what we should be trying to do as a tactic. Both have got the pace/dribbling to cause problems if they can get in to that position.
That said it feels like Greenwood is the player in better form that either currently, certainly in how he looks to play with the team as a whole but we're going to need to find a way to get them and the wider team playing. The pattern of play was again very familiar against a compact team.
His effort is absolutely appalling, to the point that he's statistically one of the laziest forwards in football. He's quite literally in the bottom 1% of Wide Forwards/AMs from ALL of the Big 5 leagues combined, across multiple effort categories... and rarely even comes CLOSE to average across any metric.
Somehow even Martial is putting up better effort stats. It's hard to overstate how little Rashford does off ball in a defensive sense. The only 'Green' in the entire image is from players absolutely blowing by him because he doesn't even attempt to tackle them.
I still think Rashford is clearly preferable to Martial, due to being more impactful on the ball, but that's much more of an indictment on Martial than a positive for Rashford. They've both become huge problems for us.
Holy...
That’s pretty shocking tbf. I know hes not out there for his defensive contributions, but litterly being in the bottom 1% is not a good look