Spot on alastair
RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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Which new heights did he take liverpool to? As I recall there was already 4 big eared trophies on the mantlepiece when he arrived. He certainly didnt add any league titles and had a tendancy to buy shite full backs. if he is your saviour then please get him back....we all miss him
Why would anyone bother though, if they claim they don't really care or aren't Rafa's biggest fan anyway? Why go to the trouble of spending hours defending someone you're supposedly ambivalent towards?
It's a bit like me going on a Liverpool forum and defending Phil Neville obsessively, despite being totally ambivalent towards him. Liverpool fans might think he's a worthless piece of shit, and I might disagree, but I'm not going to spend every waking hour trying to change their mind.
Well, I don't know about you, but I don't like to see myths just accepted as fact. Even I feel inclined to defend Benitez, because it seems as if people really believe the rubbish spouted about him. I don't want it just to become an accepted "fact" that Benitez was shit, because he wasn't.
So obviously you do care - that's not what I'm talking about though.
Your opinion is only as valid as anyone elses. Many people probably think you like spreading myths yourself.
No, not all opinions are equally valid. When someone breezes into the thread and states inaccurately that Benitez ruins every club he goes to, and is basically one of the worse managers ever, that's not a valid opinion.
Your opinion is valid, because it's based, generally, upon fact. That's not the case with some other people though.
So if my opinion isn't always based on fact, it's not valid?
Well yes.
If you say "I think Benitez is shit because he's won nothing of note," that's not a valid opinion, because it's not true, in a factual sense.
Just because two people express their opinions with equal ferocity and effort, it doesn't mean they're both reasonable views. One person can just be wrong.
Here is a fact, every United fan I know would love to see him back at Liverpool, that says it all about Benitez
I think Benitez is a poor manager.
Is that a valid opinion, Alastair?
Is that a valid opinion, Alastair?
Benitez is a poor manager.
What we suspected during his time at Liverpool has been confirmed at Inter, where he has taken them lower than the level they were at when he arrived
What we suspected during his time at Liverpool has been confirmed at Inter, where he has taken them lower than the level they were at when he arrived
Yes, because you could argue that he alienated certain people, that he made a lot of poor decisions, and that in the transfer market he was poor as well.
You couldn't factually argue he was a poor coach in a traditional sense though. Simply because he's won a fair amount of trophies. But managerial wise, you can argue that in a valid sense.
Alastair, I think you are retarded.
Is that a valid opinion?
Is that a valid opinion?
So unless my opinion is based on a fact, it doesn't stand? I can't just have an opinion about something?
Surely it's the interpretation of the facts you are arguing that makes a statement valid or not. You can use facts or arguments to back up, support or enhance your opinion, but the validity of one isn't solely strengthened through facts.
Surely it's the interpretation of the facts you are arguing that makes a statement valid or not. You can use facts or arguments to back up, support or enhance your opinion, but the validity of one isn't solely strengthened through facts.
Of course you can. You can disagree all you like but the opinion is perfectly valid whether you like it or not, that's the beauty of opinions.
As I have never been coached by Benitez, I couldn't comment on whether he is a good coach or not.
What I do know is that he is good at setting his teams up not to lose. Not good at setting his teams up to dominate the opposition and games.
So someone can argue Benitez was a bad manager, based on feelings, understanding and perspective.
I can argue that Benitez was a man, based on hard fact.
My statement is more valid, so my opinion is stronger because I'm arguing with evidence?
I can argue that Benitez was a man, based on hard fact.
My statement is more valid, so my opinion is stronger because I'm arguing with evidence?
Alastair, in your opinion Song is more of a goal threat than Fletcher, despite the fact that he doesn't score more goals.
Does that mean your opinion is not valid?
Does that mean your opinion is not valid?
You can have an opinion on anything, but it can't be listened to or appreciated if it isn't based on a fact. How one interpretes a fact is a different matter. Sometimes a fact can only be interpreted in one way - sometimes it is just cut and dry.
Like with Scholesy - he expresses opinions that aren't in line with the rest of the Caf. It doesn't make them invalid, because they're based on some kind of fact. He prefers X player to Y player because they're technically more gifted, in his eyes.
Then you get into this thread, and you get the viewpoint of "lulz, Benitez is shit, he brings every club down." That isn't a valid viewpoint, because it's based on no facts whatsoever.
Definitely.
Different. That depends on how you define goal threat. Is it merely amount of goals, or do assists count within it? Etc etc.
I think it is safe to say that the Pope is of the opinion that there is a god. Would you not listen to the pope if he had a chat with you?
Other than the fact that he left Liverpool in a worse state then when he took over, having spent a colossal amount of money in the process, and has proceeded to reduce Inter to being a shadow of their last former selves?
Because you're forgetting Valencia, which disproves the point. So if you say "he's brought down every club" that's inaccurate. Because whatever you think about Liverpool or Inter, Valencia proves otherwise.
I would talk to him, because he presents nothing as facts, merely his faith.
Fair play on getting about as far off topic as possible though.
Benitez is shit, he brought every club down after his time at Valencia.
Number of goals, alistair. Amount refers to a quantity of something which is difficult to count, ie pieces of coal, grains of sand....a singular form of a word or meaning which has no plural as such. Number refers to something you can count.
When I personally speak about a player being a goal threat I am referring to goals scored.
Assists tells me very little, and I have no idea whether Song has more assists than Fletcher. I am guessing both have relatively low number of assists.
However, if I proved that statistically Song was no more of a goal threat than Fletcher, would your opinion not be valid?
TBF he was thinner in his Valencia days. He tried all that could to bring them down but he just didn't have the mass needed to bring a club of that size down.
If you proved categorically that that was the case, yes. Stats don't tell the whole story in that particular case though.
This is where interpretation of facts is relevant. My interpretation is different to yours, in this case.
In my opinion, Alastair is a bit of thick cnut.
Is that a valid opinion?
Is that a valid opinion?
I think the "joke" has been made already. I find people resort to it once they've been trounced in the argument.
Stats never tells the full story, hence assists etc are quite irrelevant, as they don't say anything about the context.
Based on what? Fact?
Yes, we're agreed on that. Hence neither of us can prove categorically which player in more of a goal threat. That's where opinions come in.
So what you are saying, you'll ignore stats when they disagree with you but will happily use them when they do.
I could use the same quoted line for the Benitez argument. You'd say but but he won a European Cup. And I could say yeah but I interpret it differently.
No, because your opinions have all been valid, from what I've read.
This is really not going anywhere.
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