Counting UEFA Cups is a bit like counting old Division 2 titles. It's a second tier competition, only entered when you have failed to qualify for the proper European Cup.
RAWK goes into Meltdown 2010/2011
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Counting UEFA Cups is a bit like counting old Division 2 titles. It's a second tier competition, only entered when you have failed to qualify for the proper European Cup.
It was a better competition than the Cup Winners Cup, to be honest.
I wouldn't count the Cup Winners Cup.
Only top tier competitions should be counted. What we are trying to do is measure success - playing in second tier competitions, when your rivals are playing in the top tier, is a sign of failure.
Only top tier competitions should be counted. What we are trying to do is measure success - playing in second tier competitions, when your rivals are playing in the top tier, is a sign of failure.
I don't agree with you there. People used to take the CWC seriously and winning it was huge, and it was a rare chance for some teams to taste European football against the cup winners from around Europe. It was a good supplement to the European Cup. But the presence of the UEFA Cup meant that there was a third European competition and that really didn't work. With the change of CL format leading to multiple teams qualifying for each competition, it got really stupid. In 1997-98, for example, Arsenal and United qualified for the Champions League, Liverpool, Leeds, Blackburn and Villa qualified for the UEFA Cup and Chelsea and Newcastle qualified for the CWC. The merging of the UEFA Cup and the CWC seemed a good idea at the time but it's got to the stage now where teams just see it as a distraction - only a handful of teams take it seriously these days. I think the best option would have been the current CL system and the old CWC - the UEFA Cup was the one that should have got the chop.
Anyway, after all that, I agree that when totalling up the club achievements, the CWC and UEFA Cup should be discounted as second rate European competitions, as you obviously wouldn't enter had you finished high enough.
And by that you are saying that the FA Cup is a second class competition, which is bullshit! CWC was a competition of winners, the UEFA Cup was a competition of also rans. I think that it's much harder to win the FA Cup than it is to win the league simply down to its format of a single leg, no home or away, straight up out of the hat. Count how many leagues SAF has won and then count how many FA Cups he has won. The Super Cup was also the CWC vs the European cup winners, not the UEFA Cup winners vs the European Cup winners, and there is a reason for that. It's the UEFA Cup that was the tinpot.
The Cup Winners Cup was/is definitely regarded higher than the UEFA Cup.
Which competition did you play in if you qualified for both?
Indeed it was. Cup Winners Cup played the CL winners in the Super Cup
Cup Winners Cup
It's not only that. You could say now that even the Champions League isn't a competition of winners, but at least the also rans have to play against winners. Instead of coming 2nd and 3rd for the old UEFA Cup, you can now get in coming 5th, 6th, winning the FA Cup (generally the winners of which have already qualified to play in the CL), winning the League Cup, or having the least number of cards.
It's no wonder that United have not won more UEFA Cups, as we've never been in a position to even play in the thing.
Liverpool's FA Cup record is poor considering how dominant they were in the late 70s and then the 80s. It shows just how difficult it is to win the FA Cup and thus qualify for the CWC. Even still, they won the league so many times, even if they had won the FA Cup more, they wouldn't have played in the CWC. The reason they played in the UEFA Cup so many times is that they rarely won the FA Cup, but came close to winning the league.
It's no wonder that United have not won more UEFA Cups, as we've never been in a position to even play in the thing.
Liverpool's FA Cup record is poor considering how dominant they were in the late 70s and then the 80s. It shows just how difficult it is to win the FA Cup and thus qualify for the CWC. Even still, they won the league so many times, even if they had won the FA Cup more, they wouldn't have played in the CWC. The reason they played in the UEFA Cup so many times is that they rarely won the FA Cup, but came close to winning the league.
I was talking about this the other day with one of my Fulham supporting friends. I was bemoaning the Europa Cup and explaining how it is little more than a Champions League wooden spoon. Even the likes of Tottenham and Aston Villa fielded weakened teams in the Europa League/Uefa Cup in order to concentrate on the Premier League. No disrespect to Tottenham or Villa, but They've hardly been trophy laden in the last few years! This is why I laugh when people argue that the Spanish league is stronger based on their record in the Europa League, English clubs can't be bothered with it!
They should bring back the Cup Winners Cup and scrap the Europa League because the expanded Champions League has robbed it of its quality.
Champions League Final 28th May
I started the original (and best) RAWK GOES INTO MELTDOWN THREAD because I find their forum hilarious. The constant bitter and deluded anti-Manchester United/Sky/Referee propaganda has provided me and many other Cafites lots of giggles.
A 141 page thread is nothing if you consider the matchday threads that lot have dedicated to Manchester United matches EVERY week, which are always filled with the same shite i.e. United score and it's "feck this, going to shoot myself" etc. You'll never find that at RedCafe although this is probably because Liverpool are usually sitting midtable or just above and are more of a threat to Spurs getting Europa League footy than title contenders.
Also, I'd say that 90% of Andy@ConspiracyTheory's posts are Manchester United related. Even his fellow RAWKites reckon he's obsessed.
He needs to grow up, the internet is for a bit of fun and banter with opposing fans. He takes it all far too seriously.
When I think of Andy@ConspiracyTheory when United are lifting the league title, I picture this:
Andy@Allerton said:
I started the original (and best) RAWK GOES INTO MELTDOWN THREAD because I find their forum hilarious. The constant bitter and deluded anti-Manchester United/Sky/Referee propaganda has provided me and many other Cafites lots of giggles.
A 141 page thread is nothing if you consider the matchday threads that lot have dedicated to Manchester United matches EVERY week, which are always filled with the same shite i.e. United score and it's "feck this, going to shoot myself" etc. You'll never find that at RedCafe although this is probably because Liverpool are usually sitting midtable or just above and are more of a threat to Spurs getting Europa League footy than title contenders.
Also, I'd say that 90% of Andy@ConspiracyTheory's posts are Manchester United related. Even his fellow RAWKites reckon he's obsessed.
He needs to grow up, the internet is for a bit of fun and banter with opposing fans. He takes it all far too seriously.
When I think of Andy@ConspiracyTheory when United are lifting the league title, I picture this:
that's not just wrong but feckin insane
the CWC originally had more prestige/glamour but eventually the fairs cup/uefa cup became more respected because the competitors had come close to being champions which was far more worthy, if less glamourrous than Cup winners. Relegation strugglers and mid-table teams who had a lucky streak in the cup won FA Cups. (West Ham, Coventry, Sunderland, Southampton, Wimbledon, WBA and even a United side that avoided relegation by the skin of their teeth in '63) I am not demeaning the competition because it had the do-or-die aspect that brought some fantastic ties together but tocompare it to winning the league is silly. Similarities to teams competing in the CL but remaining mid-table as opposed to teams actuallyy in serious competition for the title week in week out.
It's clearly not insane, as you can see by comparing Liverpool's FA Cup win number to their league win number, and doing the same with United. It's quite clear that it's harder to win the FA Cup than it is to win the league. Take those two clubs as a further example, when they were at their peak in terms of winning leagues, when they were the greatest teams in the land, they did nowhere as well in the FA Cup. Coming top four in the league is easier to do than winning the FA Cup! The number of league - FA Cup doubles in the post war era is what?
The figures show that it's you that is insane!
When confronted with another fan who's worried that Hernandez might prove the difference tomorrow night, this chump pops up with...
What a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
callanlfc5times said:
What a Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime.
Plan M, out of all the posters on redcafe, you blow your own trumpet the most;
"it was my thread," - "I did it first delete the others," - "mine was the best, easily."
It's quite funny.
"it was my thread," - "I did it first delete the others," - "mine was the best, easily."
It's quite funny.
Fergie has foregone the FA Cup on occasion to concentrate on the league/Europe. We won it a fair few times in the 70s/80s when Liverpool were winning league titles. It's not easier or harder to win. It just requires a different approach. We were a good cup team under Big Ron and Liverpool were a good one under Rafa. Being good over 38 games aint the same as being good in a one-off game.
I dig this one:
Irony, someone?
Irony, someone?
Haha ha ha ha hahaha
The misery of being overtaken by us is really getting to them. They'll be pumping all their girocheques into cheap white cider and heroin tonight
The misery of being overtaken by us is really getting to them. They'll be pumping all their girocheques into cheap white cider and heroin tonight
They're getting quite nervous over there. It's a mixture of people sharing their genuine fears (our counter-attacking and Hernandez) and others desperately hoping for us to be slaughtered. There will be scouse suicides if we win, I'm sure of it.
I guess this is their response?
It's an absolute disgrace, adding a Hillsborough slogan to that banner. 'JFT96' is not a club motto like 'YAWN'. Those three should be ashamed.
1. They censored the word feck
2. There is nobody around- do it on matchday and see what happens
3. They are standing in a carpark, not in front of the main entrance. One presumes there is a getaway car revving up just out of shot.
Apart from that, well done.
2. There is nobody around- do it on matchday and see what happens
3. They are standing in a carpark, not in front of the main entrance. One presumes there is a getaway car revving up just out of shot.
Apart from that, well done.
I guess this is their response?
That showed us.How brave of them to take it in an empty car park too - "Quick! take the picture you div someone's coming!"
That is laughable. In the car park across from the ground, with absolutely not a person in sight.Adding "JFT96" is unbelievably crass. And stupid to put it on the same banner as "feck off Fergie" as well, as he was the first public person to arrive at Anfield after the disaster and made a significant contribution to the disaster fund.
I guess this is their response?
Wow. They held up a banner telling Fergie to feck off in front of an empty Old Trafford. Pathetic
Putting that Hillsbrough thing up is a joke, that has nothing to do with our respective trophy hauls so bringing that into it is a disgrace.
I love the fact the 19 is there above themDidn't think that one through
The Rawkites found it on facebook, though. They haven't claimed it was any of them.
Pretty lame attempt at "revenge" for the Anfield banner. The Hillsborough thing is just not necessary.
This one tickled me
This one tickled me
You have to remember that the daft twats consider their league cup, FA cup and UEFA cup an equal treble to ours.
They are in the car park as that's where they dumped the stolen car, they used to get there.
What a load of bullshit! You wouldn't have been saying that if we'd have beaten City in the semi. In fact the twaddle you spout degrades the treble. It's bollocks, really, total bollocks!
The CWC was always ranked next to the European Cup. Teams who qualified for both, automatically entered CWC.
Indeed in 1983, the year we won the FA Cup, we also finished 3rd in the league (behind Liverpool & Watford
), thereby we were entitled to a UEFA slot. (Spurs who finished 4th that season, went on to win that UEFA cup in '84).As we were FA cup winners in '83 ( v Brighton), we participated in the CWC...... having a memorable 3-0 victory over Barcelona in the Qtr. final, only to exit to Juve in semi- final. ( By then we were into 1984).
Didn't think that one through
Tbf they do look like they have severe retardation - especially the middle one
Weaste, you're the only person I've ever known who thinks the FA Cup is harder to win than the league. We've won the league more than the league cup- does that make the league cup harder to win? Does it feck. We've come first in the league more times than we've come last- does that mean it's easier to win the league than come last?
Wum
Wum
Weaste, you're the only person I've ever known who thinks the FA Cup is harder to win than the league. We've won the league more than the league cup- does that make the league cup harder to win? Does it feck. We've come first in the league more times than we've come last- does that mean it's easier to win the league than come last?
Wum
Lets just say that we have never really put much effort into the League Cup. However, for you to abuse the status of the oldest club competition in the world is out of order. If you think that SAF doesn't want to win the FA Cup every year you've got something slightly wrong in your head, and are demeaning the doubles and the treble itself.
It is clearly a harder competition to win, as dominant clubs in terms of league performance have not necessarily always been able to transfer that form to the FA Cup. It's unique though as it's not played over two legs, unless there is a draw. Only some very special teams have been able to combine the two in the same year, and you demean that achievement.
Wanker!
When Liverpool were at their peak, how many FA Cups did they win?
Weaste your logic is a bit flawed in this one.
I would imagine they cared less for the FA Cup than they did for the league, as everyone else who has a good chance of winning the league does.
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