is it fair to say we coped better without Rio than we have done without Vidic?
Rio Ferdinand
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is it fair to say we coped better without Rio than we have done without Vidic?
Not a popular opinion but Vidic makes Rio look better. He really does, Vidic takes charge of the defence and whatever he doesn't take care of Rio will mop up. That's why as a partnership they are so good, but Rio cannot be the dominant machine that Vidic is.
And vice versa.
But in the absence of Rio, Vidic still looked solid when it was him and Evans in that amazing run where we conceded 1 goal in about 10 games?
If you get a chance (And can be arsed
) have a look at the last two games, his positioning, pace and distribution have been woeful.I was shocked to see Henry Winter describe Ferdinand as poor today tbh, bar one misplaced pass to Jones who wasn't following the rest of the back line back towards goal I cant think of a thing he did wrong today. Seemed to deal with Aguero very well imo
Vidic can perform better without Rio next to him, than Rio can without Vidic next to him. Both can perform better when they are partnered together.
I think Rio's almost done, tbh
Surprised if he's starting most games he's fit for next season
Surprised if he's starting most games he's fit for next season
Watch the last minute against City. Kolarov lobs the ball into the box - just watch Rio movement instead of moving towards the ball he leaves his man - Lescott and moves back towards the goal - this leaves Lescott free and its only a brilliant header by Smalling against lescott and Richards to win the ball.
It's shocking defending - it's Terry -esque where he runs back to the goal line. Watch it again.
It's shocking defending - it's Terry -esque where he runs back to the goal line. Watch it again.
I'm staggered by that. What do you think our first choice partnership will be next season then?
Don't forget the severity of Vidic's season - could well come back a slightly different player. I hope not - I'd still have Vidic and Rio as my first choice next year.
I don't see much wrong with him apart from the occasional misjudged pass. Obviously he needs to cut that out, but I'm not going to write him off over it.
Smalling and Vidic is a good pairing. But then again it depends on if we get a midfielder this summer. if we do then Jones would start playing back in central defense. He might be a liability now but he is young and will improve. Fergie will see to that.
What's staggering about it? He's 33 and has been dogged by injury for the past three seasons.
In 2007/08 he played 35 of 38 league games. 2008/09 he played 24/38, 2009/10 he played 13/38 and last season he played 19/38. I think he's played 13 out of 20 this season. He's no longer someone we can rely on to be available and for every injury he gets he misses games, loses pace and it takes him longer and longer to get some form back. Luckily we have already found his replacement in Smalling.
No he's not done. I think he's just conquering his injury problems. Once he's played another 3-4 games he'll be top notch again.
I thought he looked off today, seemed a bit uncomfortable under pressure. But it would be silly to write him off.
Dunno, he just looks a bit shot to me most times I see him. He just doesn't move fluidly at all, he looks like a puppet on a string. And his decision-making and general confidence have dropped.
Hopefully he proves me wrong.
He carries himself differently. Thought it's been quite noticeable. Might be the back thing.
I do think his 'decline' is largely mental, however. Of the "Well, I can't be as dominant as I used to so why even bother, really" variety. Perfectly understandable: anyone who used to be that good is going to find it hard to adjust mentally and physically to having to work for everything like the rest of the 'average' players.
I do think his 'decline' is largely mental, however. Of the "Well, I can't be as dominant as I used to so why even bother, really" variety. Perfectly understandable: anyone who used to be that good is going to find it hard to adjust mentally and physically to having to work for everything like the rest of the 'average' players.
I'm much calmer watching Smalling at centre-half than Rio nowadays.
He does lose a bit of pace, that block/tackle on Micah Richards towards the end attest to that. In his prime, he could have elegantly nicked the ball away easily
I really don't see how after three years of being blighted by a variety of injuries you can say that. Even if he does overcome them, he's never going to overcome aging and get his pace back. It's inevitable at this stage in his career he is coming to the end of his usefulness to a top side.
Gary Pallister left us at 33, Steve Bruce left us at 35, Jaap Stam retired at 35, Tony Adams retired at 35, Sol Campbell left Arsenal at 32. There are more players retiring or leaving top clubs at Rio's age than there are Maldini types around who will play on for years after their mid 30s.
Smalling benefits from having Rio next to him, though. Rio's reading of the game is fantastic and the more of this he can impart onto Smalling the better.
This is where Jones' age shows, he's more a reactionary defender than a game reader.
I was talking more about when either have the ball and look to play it forwards, or are being closed down by a forward. Rio seems to dither a bit more now and suffers from trying to be a bit too clever, whereas Smalling has no qualms in playing the easy pass, which is fine.
I am getting sick of fecking Rio tweets. He is giving away potential team selection information on twitter saying he is not feeling well.
Rooney missus did the same last time.
I hope SAF speaks to Rio about this.
Rooney missus did the same last time.
I hope SAF speaks to Rio about this.
Don't think this means anything. He was up all night.
Sometimes if I've been sick I feel much, much better the next day!
Sometimes if I've been sick I feel much, much better the next day!
Don't follow him then.
Luckily I don't think Owen Coyle has twitter yet so we should be okay, just.
The thing is do we need to know? He is a professional athlete with a responsibility to his club and manager and tweeting he is not feeling well a few days before a game is not clever.
I don't follow him or anyone on twitter. I just read what people who follow him have posted and it seems the BBC and forums have picked up on this.
One thing about him that has been overrated is that he's a great 'footballing' defender; that he can bring the ball out, spray it around etc. I've seen him try to give long passes many times and he's failed. This isn't a criticism of him as he's been a fantastic defender, but especially in comparisons with Vidic, some have said that Rio is a better footballer whereas Vidic isn't as good with the ball at his feet. I've actually seen Vidic give as many, if not more, accurate passes than Rio. If anything, Vidic's footballing is underrated.
Rio's strength has been his intelligence and reading of the game. And that's what makes him a top defender, even if his pace is slowly deserting him or if his 'footballing' on the ground isn't as good as some had claimed.
Rio's strength has been his intelligence and reading of the game. And that's what makes him a top defender, even if his pace is slowly deserting him or if his 'footballing' on the ground isn't as good as some had claimed.
Yea that's fair.
I think you're completely wrong there personally.
I think he's right in the point he makes about Vidic's "footballing" being underrated, but I think he does Rio's game a big disservice too.
How dare he say that he is under the weather! Like he could have said in any interview. I'm sure if Fergie didn't want the press to know he wouldn't have tweeted it - he isn't a dumb guy.
Glad to see you are trying to do Fergie's job for him though.
you started following United in the summer of 2011 i gather
you started playing football in the summer of 2011 I gather.
you might lose a significant part of your pace and athleticism as you grow older, but you don't lose a significant portion of your touch/footballing ability if you've been amazing at it for so long. Giggs may have lost his pace, but he's still got the magic when it comes to control and passing; Scholes may have lost his pace and dynamism, but he can still pick your arse out with a 800 yard pass from Manchester blindfolded. Rio didn't suddenly lose his ability to be great on with the ball at his feet in the summer of 2011, he lost a fair bit of his pace. That doesn't mean he's crap on his feet, he's still excellent at it, but not as much as some like to think. For the record, I think he's better at it than the likes of Carragher, and possibly Terry but he isn't that much better than Vidic. I think Vidic's superiority in the air and his tough tackling makes some people under appreciate his actual footballing abilities.
Like Alwyn said, you're right about that side of Vidic's game being under appreciated, but you're off the mark with Rio, he was fantastic with the ball at his feet in his pomp.
Skills.
I think Vidic has been equally as good as Rio these last 2 years with the ball at his feet. In his very prime Rio was definitely better but now I don't see much of a difference at all. Vidic is actually fairly good with the ball at his feet and his long range passing is usually pretty accurate.
Premier League chalkboard analysis | Michael Cox | Football | guardian.co.uk
Interesting analysis of what's being said here, and kind of shows that Rio is the much better ball playing defender, even recently.
Interesting analysis of what's being said here, and kind of shows that Rio is the much better ball playing defender, even recently.