Interesting to see rivals fans views' on the situation as most United fans are one way or the other. Is there any rival fans that would keep him on at least until the end of the season? If not, would you sack him now and who would you bring in to replace him as, again, a lot of United fans don't want Poch.
Rival fans... What would you do with Ole?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Maybe we can get a couple of the AFTV boys to sign to give us their views.
sssshhh...or maybe they're here already...
Rivals fans support Ole and want him to stay. Blue moon have a thread called ‘SOS’ save our Solskjær.
I have not seen a single rival fan on here or in real life who thinks Ole is going to take United places.
I have not seen a single rival fan on here or in real life who thinks Ole is going to take United places.
As far as rivals are concerned they would love United to stick with Ole forever.
This says everything about how out of depth he is most of the time.
This says everything about how out of depth he is most of the time.
Does it? I remember when Klopp was loosing every final he took Liverpool too and their defence was a joke people on here hoped he'd stay at Liverpool forever
Ask a Chelsea fan yeah I bet they hope we keep Ole forever, likewise us with them with Lampard. Same situation with Arsenal and Arteta.
I get a msg from a scouser every time we win . Good result - keeps Ole at the wheel longer . Says enough
Just to be clear, Klopp and Ole don't even belong in the same stratosphere.
Let's even just pretend last few years hasn't existed.. "washed up" Klopp in final season at Dortmund vs. pre-MUFC Ole.
Or let's give Ole a lil booster, "washed up" Klopp in final season at Dortmund vs. present Ole.
Outside of the ridiculous tribal fanaticism shown by some of our own here (and plenty of sporting fans worldwide), no one would consider them even on the same level. Keyboard vegetables proclaiming Pogba as great are probably the same one unable to see Klopp's building project..
All I can say is that all my friends who support rival clubs want Ed to give Ole a lifetime contract.
That pretty much says it all.
That pretty much says it all.
It's the classic scenario of posing the question to other fans 'would you swap managers with us'. I think if we asked opposition fans from the other 19 PL teams, we'd get 19 people saying No.
No one rates him bar some United fans who are hopeless romantics.
I know that redcafe attracts more rival fans than other forums, but this is still to me an embarrassing thread.
All my friends and families plus people in public (all support rivals clubs) love Ole so much so hoping he'll stay on the wheel forever.
...many United fans too insist we should keep him forever and evar~
...many United fans too insist we should keep him forever and evar~Cardiff are currently not in PL, but pretty sure they will vote against that too. He has left lasting memories there too.
I'd sack him now and bring in Pochettino. That way you give the latter the max. time to push for top 4 and to assess the squad before the summer window. Otherwise, I think top 4 is going to be more of a struggle than it might otherwise be.
I think there's some intrinsic value in having a manager who is in tune with their club's overall ethos, culture, and way of doing things - for that reason I think Solksjaer has an outsized value to Man United, all else being equal.
That said, I don't think he's doing enough right now. He's been fortunate to have a maverick in Bruno who can single-handedly run an attack (and did so at Sporting for years), which has papered over the cracks - the fact is that Ole still doesn't know what his best system is or how his players optimally fit into that. Just this year you've played 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2, 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-1-2, 4-3-3, etc. It'd be one thing if Ole was freshly appointed and was getting to grips with the team, but at this point in his tenure it feels like he's just throwing ideas at the wall and hoping they stick.
I don't think you do enough off the ball - right now you don't have anything even remotely resembling a cohesive press unless you're well behind and throwing caution to the winds. For me there's a middle ground there, and there are numerous mid-table managers in the PL doing more with less for me.
Ultimately I think Solksjaer's strength is his ability to connect with players and to work within the hierarchy at Man United - tactically I think he's more or less a disaster and pretty comfortably the worst manager in the PL. The issue ultimately is whether his ability to motivate is sustainable and can overcome these issues - my suspicion is that the more and more Mourinho's toxicity fades from memory, the more ineffective Solksjaer will become.
If I were you I'd hire Allegri.
That said, I don't think he's doing enough right now. He's been fortunate to have a maverick in Bruno who can single-handedly run an attack (and did so at Sporting for years), which has papered over the cracks - the fact is that Ole still doesn't know what his best system is or how his players optimally fit into that. Just this year you've played 4-2-3-1, 3-5-2, 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-1-2, 4-3-3, etc. It'd be one thing if Ole was freshly appointed and was getting to grips with the team, but at this point in his tenure it feels like he's just throwing ideas at the wall and hoping they stick.
I don't think you do enough off the ball - right now you don't have anything even remotely resembling a cohesive press unless you're well behind and throwing caution to the winds. For me there's a middle ground there, and there are numerous mid-table managers in the PL doing more with less for me.
Ultimately I think Solksjaer's strength is his ability to connect with players and to work within the hierarchy at Man United - tactically I think he's more or less a disaster and pretty comfortably the worst manager in the PL. The issue ultimately is whether his ability to motivate is sustainable and can overcome these issues - my suspicion is that the more and more Mourinho's toxicity fades from memory, the more ineffective Solksjaer will become.
If I were you I'd hire Allegri.
They clearly want us to keep him for the bantering purposes
No in Klopps case it was mixed. Some were knee jerking and calling him a failure while others felt he had quality and was showing potential. And that was just United fans. I doubt City/Chelsea/Arsenal fans thought he was crap the way Ole is regarded.
They all want us to keep him. Says it all. Ole is no different to Moyes in the eyes of opposition fans. He’s a banter manager.
once we stop delaying the inevitable we’ll all look back on this period with bewilderment.
once we stop delaying the inevitable we’ll all look back on this period with bewilderment.
Didnt he sign Fabio ( Rafael’s brother ) at cardiff too?
Absolute nonsense you've come up. In no way shape or form do I see Lampard ain the same bracket as Solskjaer. He's achieved more in his career at a competitive level in half the time that Solskjaer has been in management. If Ole and Arteta are sacked tommorow Arteta will go down as having more success on the basis of what he achieved with an absolute below standard Arsenal team.
I dont think Ole is a bad manager but there's some criteria needed to understand he doesn't belong at this level.
We were mocking Klopp in early Liverpool days because we were envious of his work and wanted him to fail so bad. Let's be honest back when Klopp was at BVB he was a dream for many of us to manage United one day, right? For me it was absolutely a dream during Moyes season. He always looked to me as a perfect United manager. I was too envious when they got him while LVG was having a meltdown during his second season and wanted him to fail miserably.
This isn't in any way comparable to what rival fans think of Ole.
This isn't in any way comparable to what rival fans think of Ole.
Everyone sees him as a glorified caretaker. No one believes he will take us places, worst case some league cup or FA if we're lucky. I've never heard a single rival fan fearing of the prospect of Ole's United.
This.
I don't remember any of us wishing Klopp staying with Pool forever even at his lowest time there. All the mocking was with intention to put pressure so Pool would give him a boot.
To wish a manager to stay forever with a club, clearly something is ill intended by opposition fans.
I think he seems a bit clueless in all honesty. He’s more like a fan in charge as opposed to a genuine football manager looking to take the club forward. It’s more of an experiment gone wrong and it’s too late to rectify, at least this season only.
There are a lot of talented players at Man Utd and a decent base to build upon. If money is provided, a competent manager could come in and turn fortunes, however Ole isn’t that guy.
I’d like him to stay as I feel it helps our chances from a rival point of view however ignoring that, he’s not a Man Utd manager.
I’d still have him over Arteta though. He’s utterly dreadful.
There are a lot of talented players at Man Utd and a decent base to build upon. If money is provided, a competent manager could come in and turn fortunes, however Ole isn’t that guy.
I’d like him to stay as I feel it helps our chances from a rival point of view however ignoring that, he’s not a Man Utd manager.
I’d still have him over Arteta though. He’s utterly dreadful.
My biggest criticism of Ole is he is uninspiring. The only way to get top talent, and Man Utd can still damn sure attract top talent, is to inspire them to play better and together. I don’t think Ole does this well nor do I think he is a good in game manager. He often has the appearance to be along for the ride.
If there is a better fit, make the move. I don’t really think there is a better fit right now. Poch does not seem like the answer for me. Man Utd players and fan base need a strong manager, and I think the club brand will attract one at the end of the season. I would hold tight with Ole until the end of the season as there is nothing better to bring in right now.
If there is a better fit, make the move. I don’t really think there is a better fit right now. Poch does not seem like the answer for me. Man Utd players and fan base need a strong manager, and I think the club brand will attract one at the end of the season. I would hold tight with Ole until the end of the season as there is nothing better to bring in right now.
I've always been a big believer in managers should get time IF they earn it, none of this romantic rubbish they have to show a clear blueprint that the projected end product is worth the pain getting there. The metrics I've always used to decide whether I should back a Chelsea manager who has inconsistent starts results wise are these...
1. Is the football sustainable?
2. What are his team selections like? Is he still playing the deadwood that caused the transition/rebuild phase in the first place or is he building his team around the players that have the potential to be part of the finished article?
3. Recruitment, are the majority of players he's bringing in on the level or have the potential to play in title winning sides?
4. Is there season by season progression?
For a manager to get time and additional trust in the midst of erratic results the answers to questions 1,3 and 4 (just 1 and 3 if he's on the first season) has to be a categoric yes and the answer to question 2 has to be the latter, if as much as one of those 4 ain't on point then it's too big a risk to give them more time in my opinion (unless there's major mitigating circumstances like injury crisis not allowing number 4 to play out). For example, for us Lampard is passing all those 4 with flying colours so far but AVB was only good on number 3, so I'm fully behind Lamps at this point but wanted AVB booted.
I don't watch United as much as you lot do so I'll let you decide how many if any of those that Ole is passing.
1. Is the football sustainable?
2. What are his team selections like? Is he still playing the deadwood that caused the transition/rebuild phase in the first place or is he building his team around the players that have the potential to be part of the finished article?
3. Recruitment, are the majority of players he's bringing in on the level or have the potential to play in title winning sides?
4. Is there season by season progression?
For a manager to get time and additional trust in the midst of erratic results the answers to questions 1,3 and 4 (just 1 and 3 if he's on the first season) has to be a categoric yes and the answer to question 2 has to be the latter, if as much as one of those 4 ain't on point then it's too big a risk to give them more time in my opinion (unless there's major mitigating circumstances like injury crisis not allowing number 4 to play out). For example, for us Lampard is passing all those 4 with flying colours so far but AVB was only good on number 3, so I'm fully behind Lamps at this point but wanted AVB booted.
I don't watch United as much as you lot do so I'll let you decide how many if any of those that Ole is passing.
I want Ole to remain as Utd manager for the next decade.
That said if he was MY teams manager Levy wouldn't have made him permanent in the first place, he is on par with Tim Sherwood. I say that in complete seriousness by the way.
Your problem isn't just Ole though, your owners motivation is questionable and there seems to be arrogance/lack of giving a shit in many of your players too which will be difficult to shift because of your ridiculous wage structure.
That said if he was MY teams manager Levy wouldn't have made him permanent in the first place, he is on par with Tim Sherwood. I say that in complete seriousness by the way.
Your problem isn't just Ole though, your owners motivation is questionable and there seems to be arrogance/lack of giving a shit in many of your players too which will be difficult to shift because of your ridiculous wage structure.
I agree with your criteria and would personally say Ole meets 2, 3, and 4. 1 is dependant on who he brings in and it's hard for him to sustain his brand of football when he doesn't have the players he wants.
I always believe managers who are at a club for medium/long term purposes should play the way they want to play from the off, if they get the odd humiliation en route because some of the tools are faulty (like we did at Old Trafford amoung a few other times last season) then feck it.
The worst trap a manager appointed for a rebuild project can fall into is getting restless and doing what is needed for a quick fix.
He's your Kovac, go find a Flick.
1. No. Our defending as a team is below par, we start games awfully, we tend to look disjointed even when winning - we rely on talented players pulling something out of the hat during a generally poor/unconvincing performance. His in-game management tends to be horrific (see last night for a prime exhibit: taking off Telles at half-time and then replacing Shaw with Williams... what the feck was that?)
2. He gets a pass on this: most of the deadwood of previous managers is now out of the team. We haven't seen Lingard for a while.
3. The only definite "yes" on this is Bruno. We hope and expect Van de Beek to also be of that level but he hasn't played enough yet. Cavani of course has the quality but he's a stopgap at 33. Ole's first transfer window was unquestionably poor, however. So overall I'd say the recruitment is a 5/10 so far.
4. 66 points in 2019, 66 points in 2020... I'd be surprised if we get more than 70 this season. So probably no but that's partly a prediction.
Overall, he's doing a mediocre job, all things considered. It's not a disaster but we're going nowhere.
I can't see him being United's manager next season and I think it's only a matter of when, not if he gets the sack. What you've seen so far is as good as it will get. If/when OGS goes, Ed Woodward's role on the football side of things would have to be reviewed and probably taken away.
For him to have shown enough progress from last season, he'd need a comfortable top 3 finish and some silverware. He's unlikely to achieve that so United would be advised to at least consider some possible replacements for OGS.
In no particular order Erik Ten Haag, Marco Rose, Thomas Tuchel, Julien Nagelsmann, Mauricio Pochettino and Zinedine Zidane should all feature on a list of possible replacements. It has to be said though that the aforementioned 6 all come with their justifiable pros and cons.
Saying and doing things from the Ferguson playbook, even mentioning what Sir Alex said or did at a certain moment might sound cute and all that initially but after a while it would leave you thinking if he's his own man or if he's just memorised everything the GOAT said or did in a certain situation and thought he'd do the same.
Commenting on a coaching staff isn't always a great idea because you don't see what goes out on the training field, judgements are made on what you see on the pitch during games. As an observation, I think he's overdone the whole 'United way/DNA' in terms of his coaching staff. Having Mike Phelan on his staff makes sense. Phelan is experienced and he knows what success at the top level as an assistant manager looks like. The presence of Mike Phelan and himself should be enough to make players aware of what's requried and what it means to play for Man Utd. Michael Carricks presence makes a spot on United's coaching staff look an employment sanctuary for a recently retired player.
At the end of the 2018-19 season I would have asked him to think about the training ground coaches he has. Was it the best thing for Manchester United and Michael Carrick if he's on the first team coaching staff of such a big club so soon after retiring? I'd say no but that's obviously Solskjaer's call.
All in all, I can't see him being United's manager next season. What you've seen so far is as good as it will get. If OGS goes, he shouldn't the only one under the spotlight though.
For him to have shown enough progress from last season, he'd need a comfortable top 3 finish and some silverware. He's unlikely to achieve that so United would be advised to at least consider some possible replacements for OGS.
In no particular order Erik Ten Haag, Marco Rose, Thomas Tuchel, Julien Nagelsmann, Mauricio Pochettino and Zinedine Zidane should all feature on a list of possible replacements. It has to be said though that the aforementioned 6 all come with their justifiable pros and cons.
Saying and doing things from the Ferguson playbook, even mentioning what Sir Alex said or did at a certain moment might sound cute and all that initially but after a while it would leave you thinking if he's his own man or if he's just memorised everything the GOAT said or did in a certain situation and thought he'd do the same.
Commenting on a coaching staff isn't always a great idea because you don't see what goes out on the training field, judgements are made on what you see on the pitch during games. As an observation, I think he's overdone the whole 'United way/DNA' in terms of his coaching staff. Having Mike Phelan on his staff makes sense. Phelan is experienced and he knows what success at the top level as an assistant manager looks like. The presence of Mike Phelan and himself should be enough to make players aware of what's requried and what it means to play for Man Utd. Michael Carricks presence makes a spot on United's coaching staff look an employment sanctuary for a recently retired player.
At the end of the 2018-19 season I would have asked him to think about the training ground coaches he has. Was it the best thing for Manchester United and Michael Carrick if he's on the first team coaching staff of such a big club so soon after retiring? I'd say no but that's obviously Solskjaer's call.
All in all, I can't see him being United's manager next season. What you've seen so far is as good as it will get. If OGS goes, he shouldn't the only one under the spotlight though.
He's devoid of any charisma to succeed at the top level, this is something that shouldn't be noticeable just from watching the games and interviews but it's so obvious with him. He's much worse in that regard than the last two managers, just barely better than Moyes who was completely out of his depth and couldn't handle the pressure of a big club.
Yikes! I agree.
Leicester fan here.
From my perspective as a bias Leicester fan, we love Ole as we feel this help us become top 4 contenders at your expense (similar to the situation at Arsenal - Although you clearly haven't dropped to their standards!).
But on a serious note and as a Football fan in my late 20's; Manchester United were for a time of my generation, the dominance of English and European football. I (as a glory hunter in my young days), was a fan of Manchester United. I was in awe of the players & Fergie. I still love the nostalgia of watching Premier League years and all the historic moments you provided the football world.
But 10-15 years from now, I don't believe our children will live the moments I did and have those memories or nostalgia with Ole at the helm. From our point of view, it appears MU are currently reliant on a lucky result following a disappointing performance or a Fernandes penalty, not the tactical genius moments we all expect.
If Ole was not affiliated with the Club before his appointment, would you still want him on or even have been happy for him to get the gig in the first place? I doubt. Top clubs need to be ruthless and forget sentiment.
MU image has changed a lot since Fergie's retirement. They haven't been able to find a new image with all the chopping and changing of Managers. It is evident MU need to find a long term manager and stick by him, however I do not believe Ole is the man for that job. I also agree that a lot of the problems, is not with the Manager, but further up the Hierarchy chain.
From my perspective as a bias Leicester fan, we love Ole as we feel this help us become top 4 contenders at your expense (similar to the situation at Arsenal - Although you clearly haven't dropped to their standards!).
But on a serious note and as a Football fan in my late 20's; Manchester United were for a time of my generation, the dominance of English and European football. I (as a glory hunter in my young days), was a fan of Manchester United. I was in awe of the players & Fergie. I still love the nostalgia of watching Premier League years and all the historic moments you provided the football world.
But 10-15 years from now, I don't believe our children will live the moments I did and have those memories or nostalgia with Ole at the helm. From our point of view, it appears MU are currently reliant on a lucky result following a disappointing performance or a Fernandes penalty, not the tactical genius moments we all expect.
If Ole was not affiliated with the Club before his appointment, would you still want him on or even have been happy for him to get the gig in the first place? I doubt. Top clubs need to be ruthless and forget sentiment.
MU image has changed a lot since Fergie's retirement. They haven't been able to find a new image with all the chopping and changing of Managers. It is evident MU need to find a long term manager and stick by him, however I do not believe Ole is the man for that job. I also agree that a lot of the problems, is not with the Manager, but further up the Hierarchy chain.
Keep him until end of the season and see if he gets you top 4 and wins a cup. If not I think that's the right time then to let him go and get in Poch or Allegri.
He's not the greatest manager out there obviously but I do think in five years time his football "obituary" will be viewed as slowly someone who got Man. United back on the right path and then someone else came in and put finishing touches to it.
Said it before but you are in better shape than 12 months back:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50449170
Jones, Andreas Pereira starting and Lingard coming on at half time to rescure the game so depth is way better if you look at that bench. 12 points off Leicester at stage of the season so you did well to finish above them and Chelsea.
Of course going out of CL early shouldn't be acceptable to club with your standards but other thread shows you've been also rans in it for 9 years now and he's got you in good position in league despite performances not being that great.
Van Gaal was in similar position in 15/16 playing worse football and he got rest of the season so don't see OGS getting sacked unless you lose 4-5 straight in the league and lose early in FA cup.
He's not the greatest manager out there obviously but I do think in five years time his football "obituary" will be viewed as slowly someone who got Man. United back on the right path and then someone else came in and put finishing touches to it.
Said it before but you are in better shape than 12 months back:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50449170
Jones, Andreas Pereira starting and Lingard coming on at half time to rescure the game so depth is way better if you look at that bench. 12 points off Leicester at stage of the season so you did well to finish above them and Chelsea.
Of course going out of CL early shouldn't be acceptable to club with your standards but other thread shows you've been also rans in it for 9 years now and he's got you in good position in league despite performances not being that great.
Van Gaal was in similar position in 15/16 playing worse football and he got rest of the season so don't see OGS getting sacked unless you lose 4-5 straight in the league and lose early in FA cup.
From yesterday's match, it is clear that United has a pretty good squad, at least much better than Leipzig. Your individual players gave Leipzig problems second half. However, Ole is not a coach to make this team better than the sum of its parts. It's very difficult to understand as a neutral viewer, what's his favored playing style is. I think it's high time to make a change and get either Pochettino or Rangnick. My preference would be Rangnick as he can act both as a coach and a DOF.
As a third option, Hasenhuttl is a great shout, I like what he is doing at Southampton.
As a third option, Hasenhuttl is a great shout, I like what he is doing at Southampton.