Pretty much accurate across all your points really. I think you have kind of hit the nail on the head - i am Utd fan from Derby but that is purely because my Dad had had a season ticket since the 70s and believe me I was given absolutely no choice in the matter! I have now lived in Manchester for 5 years (saves me four hours of travelling 30 off times a season!) and despite the fact I dont support my local team i get on fine with my City/Liverpool/Forest/Derby supporting mates because they have respect for the fact that I have had a ST since i was 16 and can have a sensible conversation about football with them which i think is the main thing. I reckon its the fans who go around gloating in opposition fans faces without ever having set foot in OT (or Anfield/Etihad etc...) that really piss people off.
Rival Fans: Why are Utd so unpopular?
- Thread starter Lentwood
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Pretty much accurate across all your points really. I think you have kind of hit the nail on the head - i am Utd fan from Derby but that is purely because my Dad had had a season ticket since the 70s and believe me I was given absolutely no choice in the matter! I have now lived in Manchester for 5 years (saves me four hours of travelling 30 off times a season!) and despite the fact I dont support my local team i get on fine with my City/Liverpool/Forest/Derby supporting mates because they have respect for the fact that I have had a ST since i was 16 and can have a sensible conversation about football with them which i think is the main thing. I reckon its the fans who go around gloating in opposition fans faces without ever having set foot in OT (or Anfield/Etihad etc...) that really piss people off.
Yeah, but McGrath is a follower of Arsenal, who are probably in the top 10 clubs with the most worldwide fans. DJ Spoony and Kirsty Gallacher had a little pop at a United fan outside of Manchester when they were presenting a show in the past, and they are two out of town Liverpool fans. Liverpool might be in the top 10 best supported clubs worldwide. By having a pop at out of town fans from another club, when a person is an out of town fan themselves, of a different club is strange. It would be more understandable, if say an Exeter City fan from Exeter, and didn't know any Exeter City fans outside of Exeter, was having a pop at a club with lots of out of town fans.
Are United really hated that much?
I was in Spain in 99 for that glorious couple of weeks when we won the title, the FA Cup and the European Cup.I was was in a bar watching the United V Spurs game stand beside 3 blokes ,2 were Leeds fans and the other lad was Blackburn and the were all shouting for United because (in their words) 'they would rather cheer for them than Southern Softies!
I was in Spain in 99 for that glorious couple of weeks when we won the title, the FA Cup and the European Cup.I was was in a bar watching the United V Spurs game stand beside 3 blokes ,2 were Leeds fans and the other lad was Blackburn and the were all shouting for United because (in their words) 'they would rather cheer for them than Southern Softies!
Lots of great points and I am sure there will be people who hate United for each of the reasons mentioned but this one is a beauty for me. I don’t know what percentage of our matches are televised but it’s high. I know there was a stat recently that every single one of our FA Cup games had been televised since X date. Not sure if that’s still rolling on? With that level of exposure to casual football fans, they become armchair United fans, or ABU’s. Between 1993 and 2008 we were almost exclusively live on TV.
I have mates who just cant say anything positive about United. They’ll quite happily wax lyrical about Costa, Conte and Chelsea, Sanchez, Wenger and Arsenal, Aguerro, Pep and City, Countinho, Klopp and Liverpool. But its like they spontaneously combust if they have to compliment Zlatan / Pogba, Jose and United - despite them raving about them prior to joining United. It’s hatred that’s so deeply in them. I know lots of lads who can watch results come in on a Saturday and see their team getting trounced 3-0 by bottom the table but they’ll be happy and celebrate because United get beat. When their team and United aren’t even direct rivals. Every single football conversation with them ends up being about United. They seem to want to encourage you to say “Pogba is playing really well” (as an example) for them then to say “he’s shite, waste of money”. Usually when you dig deeper they have only seen a game or two.
The jealousy aspect and resent of success is a huge part of it though. We became an enormous “brand”, with unparalleled success over 25 years and we did it essentially with home grown players, a british manager, a club legend in the directors box……basically the perfect model what everybody wants. As we didn’t have any chink in our armour for rival fans to poke at the club as a whole became hated…”just because”….”anybody but united”. Typical British attitude of resenting winners. The class of 92 should have been celebrated and revered not hated. I remember them getting boo’ed when playing for England at Wembley against Mexico. Iniesta was applauded at every away ground after his world cup winner, imagine that being Rooney?
As we have had that hate for 25 years, we have come to enjoy it, or atleast I know I have. When we where irrelevant (relatively) during Moyes and LVG it was unbearable. I almost wanted to be hated again more than I wanted to be successful again. Clearly it comes hand in hand but not sure which I missed the most. Going to away games under Moyes and LVG singing “only come to see United” and “We’ll do what we want” was a bit cringey, it didn't work. Being hated again was for me why we just had to appoint Jose.
I was at both Palace and West Brom away games and can honestly say they where the best two games I have been to since Fulham away in 2007? When Ronnie got that last minute winner. The Palace game was a huge break through to score again late on after the equaliser. The West Brom game, with all the top 6 winning, us kicking of late I walked to the ground knowing everybody was watching hoping we’d get beat (even though it fecked their acca’s up). It felt like walking to a United match again. The performance, the atmosphere, the players coming over…..walking away also felt like it used to when going to a United match.
Hated Adored Never Ignored
This "behaviour" is kind of prevalent in almost every country. Real Madrid/Barcelona are loved-hated depending upon where you go in Spain. Same with Juventus/Milan/Inter in Italy and Bayern in Germany. The reason being that all these clubs have enjoyed a sustained period of success exactly like how United did. Arsenal/Chelsea/City don't come close because for them, it has been very sporadic.
This. When you reach the status of a Club like United with so many trophies, titles, and a long history of great players and winning, you either love or hate them. Like the New York Yankees or New England Patriots, and Boston Celtics of years gone by. Same all over the world. It's a badge of honor, wear it proudly. Much better than wearing a badge on a shirt and someone asks....'Who?"
That's the kind of stuff that gets right on my tits.
I knew a couple of cocky United fans growing up, but to be honest the Arsenal fans were far worse from about 2002-05 than anything my United supporting friends dished out.
Honestly it really is mainly because from 1993 to 2013 United won thirteen league titles. Do you have any idea how tedious that was for people that didn't support United? If you're consistent winners everyone hates you and wants you to fall apart in football.
Honestly it really is mainly because from 1993 to 2013 United won thirteen league titles. Do you have any idea how tedious that was for people that didn't support United? If you're consistent winners everyone hates you and wants you to fall apart in football.
Did he get banned for this, or was it something else?
Could have had a lot of comedy value out of this poster.
This often-used phrase is actually what makes a lot of non-rival fans hate Manchester United (from personal experience).
No matter what measure you use, Real Madrid is the biggest club in the world. Whether it's worldwide fanbase, social media presence, ability to attract the biggest superstars, money, Champions League trophies, or history. Real Madrid win out against every team, including United, in just about every relevant category.
This is coming from a Barca fan.
I feel like in 10-20 years we might challenge Real Madrid for the title as the world's biggest club. Once all those kids who grew up watching Ronaldinho and Messi have their own money to spend, we might close the gap. Although realistically, we need to win at least 7 or 8 CL trophies.
This is why I am so bitter about the manner in which we lost the 2010 and 2012 Champions Leagues. Had we won those (and we easily could have with a bit more luck) I'd have a stronger argument to why we are the biggest club in the world (4 consecutive CL trophies).
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I feel the same way. For me, it's not that hard a thing to concede to Real Madrid. They have enormous on field success domestically, and in Europe that makes it hard for me to argue against the idea that Real Madrid is the biggest in the world.
United's,and even Liverpool's, fanbase pisses all over Madrid/Barca. Unless you are counting transfer muppets who watch the classico twice a season as fans.
I would be inclined to disagree. A lot of Spanish people that I know hate them both, or hate one of them a little bit less.
Although due to the fact that Barcelona are a Catalan club, there is a lot more hatred towards them than there is towards Madrid. This in turn means that there are more Madrid sympathisers as they are the only club that can realistically keep Barça off the top.
Interestingly, @Lentwood I also grew up in Derby, then I moved to Lincoln and then to Didsbury!
Surely you can't be serious. You have heard of the Champions League before, right?
Real Madrid and Barcelona are the two biggest clubs on social media btw.
I'm being entirely serious. If you consider 'liking' a club on facebook as football support then you could be right.
But if you consider proper football supporters - folks travelling from Ireland or Scandinavia every week to watch a match in Manchester or waking up at 3.30 am in Singapore to watch an irrelevant league cup game or listening to a match on BBC Swahili because there's no TV in rural Kenya - then United blows your Real Madrid fanboys out of the water.
I live just outside Newcastle now and refuse to let my kids support City, if they were still shit I wouldn't have a problem but I'm not having them grow up a glory hunter, he can support Newcastle or Sunderland.
I've loads of mates up here who are United fans, the one reason that people get pissed off with United up here is the self righteous gloating of the glory hunters when they hammer one of the local clubs, same with 'pool fans, loads of them all from the glory years though with kids there are less United and Liverpool fans now, most appear to support the local clubs, you see hardly and kids wearing 'successful' clubs colours, actually see more Barca and Madrid tops on kids than United or Liverpool.
Your profile says you support City though
I don't see what's so complicated about me supporting City and not letting my kids support City, as I moved up here when I was 10 over 30 years ago and already supported City so I don't get any grief but I don't want my kids becoming City fans when we've got absolutely no connection with Manchester or the surrounding area's any more apart from me supporting City.
Where is your evidence for this?
From the depths of his mind.
Maybe this is *slightly* off topic but I am an american United fan who's been following for about 7 years. I listen to a few podcasts - Football Weekly in particular. And my question has to do with the general feeling of United in the UK. Are they really hated by most media and people who live there? Or is my sample size too small?
The impression I get is that most people - especially in the media over there - do not like United are happy to see them fail. I don't think I've found any general football podcasts that contain United fans; most seem to be arsenal or liverpool fans or even lower league.
Thoughts?
The impression I get is that most people - especially in the media over there - do not like United are happy to see them fail. I don't think I've found any general football podcasts that contain United fans; most seem to be arsenal or liverpool fans or even lower league.
Thoughts?
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the print media over here love both United and Spurs, you have Jamie Jackson in the Guardian reporting on both United and City and you can see the bias a mile off
the print media over here love both United and Spurs, you have Jamie Jackson in the Guardian reporting on both United and City and you can see the bias a mile off
Yeah Jamie Jackson is really popular here...almost as if all football fans think the media has it in for their team...
Pretty much. Love seeing us fail.
Jamie Jackson is in love with Mourinho. Go read an article or one of his tweets about United before Jose joined to see for yourself.
I think the Mourinho camp used to leak stories to him too.
I have never disagreed so whole heartedly with anything in my life. But hey ho thats the way it is. Of course you will think those things about Fergie and Keane, whether thats influenced by jealousy or not I don't know but its just your perspective as a Liverpool supporter.
I have never experienced the kind of thing you're talking about in point two, I'd say more so it is a small number of individuals, the kind of people that chant mockingly about Hillsborough, the vast vast majority of United fans condemn that rubbish and would love to see them banned and would like to think that Liverpool supporters feel the same way about the low life scum that sing about Munich. Both clubs have them unfortunately and I would like to think they're in the minority.
Point 5 is completely and utterly wrong. There's no two ways about it. We have never really, purchased superstars, look at our most successful teams, the 90's success was down to the class of 92 lead by King Eric who was a bargain purchase, name me a better example of a team ethic than that?
The treble winning team was again made up of cheap buys and youth products. Surely Ole Gunnar can't be called a "superstar"? Giggs, Beckham etc came through the ranks here.
Our next successful team was from the 2006 onwards period. Who were the main men there? Ronaldo, an unknown kid purchased and turned into the greatest in the world. Carrick? Fletcher? Owen Hargreaves? Hardly superstars? Vidic and Evra, purchased as unknown footballers for next to nothing and became two of the best in the world in their positions.
We have bought "superstars" as you call them, only in the last few years since Ferguson retired. But at the end of the day, Ibra was free, Pogba came through our youth ranks, Di Maria was here one year and did nothing worthwhile, maybe showing that we are a club that doesn't need or suit "superstars", Veron flopped here too.
As for point 6, theres no point even replying to that as its one individual, I'm sure you could find people like that supporting any club.
Overall, I think your post should have ended at point one. Liverpool are jealous of the success of Manchester United and can't stand the fact that we have overtaken them as the countries biggest club and are the biggest in the world.
"Hated, adored, but never ignored"
1. The glory supporter thing. Most big clubs have then, United have the most in England. Most United fans became fans because they were best side in the country. That in itself doesn't necessarily make a fan an obnoxious, ignorant and arrogant but many are. When the going gets tough many of these type of fans become petulant children. I can't abide Arsenal glory supporters who jumped on the bus when we were winning things. Then after years of financial austerity they turn on the manager who brought the success they piggybacked off.
The same with all glory supporters arrogantly looking at disdain of clubs that aren't winning things and are performing below them. They're the Donald Trump of football fans.
TBH plenty of people have expressed the 'glory' supporting thing better than myself.
2. Buying success, generally you outspent your opposition prior to the oil barons buying up clubs. Yes it's based on having a huge fanbase and you don't get success without spending but the odds were stacked in your favour.
3. Fergie's relationship with refs/officials seemed to affect decision making in your favour in many people's view.
I don't think Robson could of played the 1 touch football Liverpool played and Hoddle/Gazza/Waddle were maybe the most talented not at Liverpool during that time but that's another discussion.
The same with all glory supporters arrogantly looking at disdain of clubs that aren't winning things and are performing below them. They're the Donald Trump of football fans.
TBH plenty of people have expressed the 'glory' supporting thing better than myself.
2. Buying success, generally you outspent your opposition prior to the oil barons buying up clubs. Yes it's based on having a huge fanbase and you don't get success without spending but the odds were stacked in your favour.
3. Fergie's relationship with refs/officials seemed to affect decision making in your favour in many people's view.
I don't think Robson could of played the 1 touch football Liverpool played and Hoddle/Gazza/Waddle were maybe the most talented not at Liverpool during that time but that's another discussion.
Its ok, you can just just say it's because we won loads of stuff.
Compare the number of purchased players to youth/academy players when United and Arsenal were competing, and tell us who was trying to buy success.
Do you actually believe that ref nonsense?
Yeah you meet three United fans so they must be all that bad. My dad is mixed race and other older fans can attest to this, he didn't experience (nor can they recall) any real racial problems when it came to Man United supporters. Also you'll find that as a team that came from a railway company and during the early 1900s formed the footballers union (or played a big role in doing so) we got punished for that, so we have our own socialist roots. I find this to be your own personal gripe with the club that is born out of irrationality.
5 is ridiculous, considering you had the spice boys in the 90s.
What's this from?
This is quite an arrogant defensive mechanism I see quite a bit throughout the thread. The question is were you a fan before or after 'you won loads of stuff', because shedloads more fans appeared after, apparently always having United roots.
I don't have a strong dislike for United and have United supporting mates. I don't come here to troll United fans either, I come to chat football with the intelligent fans here because it's a busy forum. The OP asked opposition fans a question, which I've given my honest opinion on.
You spent more from 1980-2000 than Arsenal and spent shedloads more than us after that. Your academy of the late 80s/early 90s when you were still able to expand your geographic reach was great, the best in the country. George Graham shut down our academy and Wenger used the Anelka money to re-opened it.
Fergie himself said he had referee's mobile numbers, which is certainly inappropriate. I think refs and officials whether consciously or subconsciously gave decisions and added time your way, yes.
You are fecking kidding me right? I have no connection to Manc whatsoever besides me dad going there some times due to work and popped in to see Best Law and Charlton cause United were his favourite team. I love Manchester United more than any sports team in the world but that is the only connection that I have to Manc. I go there only once a year since I can't afford going more but I see every game on TV. Supported them since the late 70s and Coppell used to be my hero. I don't feckin understand this shit you are talking about. The important thing to me is that you don't support any other team as much (most of my mates who claim they are Unitedfans supported Gothenburg in 94). You can have a 2nd team by all means but if anyone asks you who you support it should be the same answere because to me you can only support one team wholeheartedly. My second team is Djurgården here in Sweden but if United played them I wish they beat them 10-0. One love. It doesn't matter where you from (atleast to me) it's about supporting in good and bad times (and to me ONE LOVE)
It's true though. The more honest rival fans have been happy to admit it.
I don't care what you think of United.
I just find it amusing some of the rival fans bending over backwards to say anything but the real reason they don't like us.
Even that Ruffian WUM started his post by saying the number one reason we're disliked is because of our success, being a threat to Liverpool's position at the top of English football (poor sod didn't realise we've already overtaken them).
Arsenal bought more or less their entire side. United had a core of academy players and spent the money they earned wisely. I know which model I prefer.
Delusional nonsense. Ferguson won because he was lightyears ahead of anyone else. He gave referees a hard time when they fecked up but then what manager does not.
The hate is only going to increase in an era of anti-globalist populism. United are seen as a global entity, with global designs, and globalist puppet masters scheming in the boardrooms. If there was a plebiscite tomorrow we'd be fecked.
Personally I don't hate United, and in fact I quite liked the Fergie era, especially when built around the class of 92 and I got great respect for what United has achieved. And I don't get the impression that people dislike United any more than any other club.
However, if I had to name things I dislike about United recently it would be the sense of entitlement I feel coming from certain parts of the fanbase (same as Liverpool). History doesn't make a club 'belong' anywhere, it just puts you in a stronger position do keep being successful if managed correctly. United winning is not the natural order of things or status quo, but an achievement, and continued success even more so, sometimes it feels like fans forget this. Cheer for your club, sure, but when I hear United fans downplay the last few years where Spurs have become a challenger merely as a 'blip', and "you'll soon be mid-table where you belong once x happens" I get annoyed. Also the idea that you could just point at a random Spurs player and he would come running comes off as a tad arrogant. Not saying every United fan is like this, but I got that impression from a few in recent times.
Also, I didn't like the smugness of believing United to be so different from other clubs about not sacking managers, and doing things 'the united way', apparently different from clubs who sack managers and throw money at players. United had a great manager who built a team around a group of recruits who happened to become absolutely amazing players.
However, if I had to name things I dislike about United recently it would be the sense of entitlement I feel coming from certain parts of the fanbase (same as Liverpool). History doesn't make a club 'belong' anywhere, it just puts you in a stronger position do keep being successful if managed correctly. United winning is not the natural order of things or status quo, but an achievement, and continued success even more so, sometimes it feels like fans forget this. Cheer for your club, sure, but when I hear United fans downplay the last few years where Spurs have become a challenger merely as a 'blip', and "you'll soon be mid-table where you belong once x happens" I get annoyed. Also the idea that you could just point at a random Spurs player and he would come running comes off as a tad arrogant. Not saying every United fan is like this, but I got that impression from a few in recent times.
Also, I didn't like the smugness of believing United to be so different from other clubs about not sacking managers, and doing things 'the united way', apparently different from clubs who sack managers and throw money at players. United had a great manager who built a team around a group of recruits who happened to become absolutely amazing players.
Were only hated in England. We're well liked across the rest of the world. Rival fans always say the same things:
1. We won everything. The English love to hate anyone successful.
2. The manager. They were convinced Ferguson controlled the referees, the media and even some other teams.
3. The gloryhunter fans, especially those from the South who have no attachment to the area.
1. We won everything. The English love to hate anyone successful.
2. The manager. They were convinced Ferguson controlled the referees, the media and even some other teams.
3. The gloryhunter fans, especially those from the South who have no attachment to the area.
An interesting observation, this. A couple of my close friends barely watch any football, besides games of the CL final/El Clasico calibre every now and again, yet for some reason they're always on the lookout for our results. 'There's something about United that I can't quite explain,' one of them once told me.
Well I've personally met all three groups while the Madrid fans I've met outside of Spain are usually Ronaldo fanboys who catch 5 games a season.
If you want more concrete evidence, look at the numbers. Domestically, Madrid rarely sellout and United have a higher average attendance despite a smaller stadium. Globally, United have 200 supporter clubs in 50 countries; Real Madrid have 6. There really is no contest in terms of fans.