Fergie played the 2010 situation brilliantly. That presser was absolutely perfect and back then we needed Rooney to stay and it worked out.
Rooney Contract Haggling / Transfer Requests Revisited
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think he was respectful even then. He didn't go public with his TR, he didn't make anything messy. Fergie made it public. I could understand the hatred for Rooney because of the TR but the fact that Rio (lunch with Kenyon), Ronaldo (horrendous behaviour in 08) and Keane (his own contract issues) did similar or worse stuff and it's never really held against them now. The Rooney hatred borders on the kind of hatred you'd have for a player for the opposing team that you hate.
It all depends on what you respect though, I dont respect anyone for being a great footballer, I respect (or otherwise ) the person them self. It exactly the same for Giggsy, amazing player, absolute cnut of a man.
Thats was possibly part of it, as i said above i think he was protecting Moyes. So if Rooney did leave Moyes wouldn't get the blame.
I have no doubt Rooney had thoughts of leaving that summer, but as i said in my opinion had Ferguson stayed i seriously doubt he would have let Rooney go. He even said it himself, the quote Perrick posted earlier and in the video interview he said ''We're not going to let him go''.
Yeah I don't respect Rooney the man either. Most footballers are shitty people. I meant respect for his achievements and as being a legend of this club. He's treated on here like a villain.
Why would Fergie say anything else? We'd have wanted to go into a summer where we are selling him with a strong hand at the negotiation table.
Thats fair, its well known how much I dislike the bloke but no one can take away what he has achieved, its a career any player bar a tiny handful would be jealous of. I still stand by the fact a lot of the vitriol he gets could be avoided if he were simply treated like other players and dropped when his performances and contributions arent up to scratch, and SAF is as much to blame for that as anyone, from signing him right up to his last season Rooney was given far greater leeway with playing himself into form than any other player I can remember.
Whilst his performances havent been great yet this season you cant argue with his contribution to results, and as long as that continues Ill be delighted, but when or if he starts having a negative impact on results he should be dropped. (Which I know you have said before as well)
Subjective
If the soon to be highest scorer ever of Manchester United isn't a club legend, I'm not sure what the definition of one is.
It really isnt. He has been a huge part of a period in our history that saw us become dominant in europe, dominant at home, and is within touching distance of being our all time top scorer, if that doesn't constitute legendary status what does?
It was him questioning our clubs ambitions at the time which really struck a nerve. Especially we went on to win our 4th league in 5 years in that very season.
I think that the contract issues PLUS the onfield poor perfomances have just created the perfect storm for the hate. I think Rio and the others perfomances saved them. Plus they never actually had a go at the club itself.
I think the hate for Rooney is also compounded by the fact that we genuinely loved him before. We felt betrayed when the contract shenanigans went down. The fact that he even admitted that the 2010 thing was just a ploy to earn a better contract meant that it is hard to see him as any better than the mercenaries across the road.
It really is subjective! Despite being the England's highest goal scorer and possibly United, I strongly doubt that he will the greatest player in history for those teams. Not even top 3 or 5 or 10 even. The term legend is very relative with regards to fans. Fans play massive roles as far as football is concerned. To call a player a legend is not only down to achievements. For example, there are players in some clubs that have a massive amounts of winners medals as a result of their longevity in the club, that doesn't make them legends, does it?
A football legend will be remembered for more than just number of goals or number of medals. How many United fans remember stats regarding the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Charlton, Best, Law, Ronaldo et al? When I think of a legend, I think of what they mean to the fans beyond stats, how they've endeared themselves to the fans, loyalty to the club badge, love and respect to the loyal fans. Rooney has burnt too many bridges and no one can blame fans for not caring about him. After all their loyalty lies with the club and not the player in question.
There is very little to suggest that Rooney genuinely loves the club and frankly I'd be very surprised if he came back to the club in some form of voluntary capacity let alone sit as fan in the stands. I don't care how good any player is, demanding a transfer request TWICE and threatening to go to a direct rival is unforgivable, only for him to turn around on those occasions and sign massive contracts. I find no problem in anyone defining Rooney as a mercenary who was handsomely paid (arguably overpaid) for his brilliant services to United.
So while he may end up having a plaque on the wall for his achievements, I'd sooner call Rio, Vidic and Evra club legends before Rooney despite his undeniable achievements.
That would be fair enough but if that is the thinking then why publicly state that your star player has asked to leave and in the process weakening your hand in any potential negotiations. It doesn't make much sense that way.
You said earlier you believe Ferguson and put trust in his word. When he said ''We're not going to let him go'' it's quite likely he meant just that. The club wouldn't have wanted him to leave from a commercial standpoint and i am pretty sure Ferguson and definitely Moyes wouldn't have wanted him to leave from a footballing perspective.
Spot on? Really? First, he's trying to defend Rooney by pointing out all managers and peers that praise him. When he's confronted with SAF wanting to get rid during his last season, he then chooses to question SAF's (of all people!) player judgement. He follows that up with referencing their first 7 years together like that's relevant as everyone loved Rooney back then.
It would be lot easier if anyone that wants to defend Rooney reads the following line before they start jumping in the debate:
Rooney is not critized because he loves grannies, supports Everton more than United or using every trick in the book to get himself a new lucrative contract. No, he's judged solely on his performances on the pitch. Nothing more, nothing less.
His decline has been so rapid that it's gone from him not justifying being captain and earning 230543058435034583405843048853405840 a week to him being not good at all regardless of role and salary in the space of a year or two. He might be ok as rotation option at best but that's a role Rooney will never accept so no point in us suggesting that.
How exactly do you confront someone with something when theres little or no proof that it was actually the case. Beyond some peoples own interpretations of Fergusons comments and the events at the time?
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...a-transfer-request-to-leave-manchester-united
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21712186
And good to his word he was, he did stay.
I went back to the posts from 2010 to see what people were writing about Rooney during the contract dispute and found threads titled:
1. "If Rooney's form doesn't improve..." with the question being "how many bad games does Fergie let him have before he doesn't start him?"
2. "Rooney in midfield"
3. "Why wasn't Rooney sold in the summer?"
4. "Mourinho: I want to coach Rooney"
It's Groundhog Day.
Also found thousands of posts digging into Rooney. Whoever it was in this thread that said Rooney handled the first transfer request well was very, very wrong judging by the vitriol on the Caf back then. People were ready to sell him on Football Manager and destroy their Rooney kits and the whole works. Also found this exchange between Mockney and this thread's resident Rooney fanboy wr8_utd:
Fickle haters indeed.
1. "If Rooney's form doesn't improve..." with the question being "how many bad games does Fergie let him have before he doesn't start him?"
2. "Rooney in midfield"
3. "Why wasn't Rooney sold in the summer?"
4. "Mourinho: I want to coach Rooney"
It's Groundhog Day.
Also found thousands of posts digging into Rooney. Whoever it was in this thread that said Rooney handled the first transfer request well was very, very wrong judging by the vitriol on the Caf back then. People were ready to sell him on Football Manager and destroy their Rooney kits and the whole works. Also found this exchange between Mockney and this thread's resident Rooney fanboy wr8_utd:
Fickle haters indeed.
The bicycle kick that came off his shin.....great goal that.
Yep a lot of us like me and Pogue I think as well were really angry when that happened. Then he stayed and that's what mattered. At that point it hurt even more as he was my favorite player but he stayed and the love returned
I don't understand how Ronaldo is considered a United legend and not Rooney. Sure, Rooney wanted to leave, so did Ronaldo. And Rooney has done much more for United.
Obviously he is not the player he was years ago (he's actually shit these days tbh) I but he always give 110%.
Obviously he is not the player he was years ago (he's actually shit these days tbh) I but he always give 110%.
When the whole presser came out, I think it sort of shattered my faith in any sort of loyalty from footballers. The rumors that he wanted to go to City made it worse.
Ronaldo misbehaved a lot lot more than Rooney, Rio anyone ever has. His behaviour was absolutely disgusting. Agreeing with the slavery comments and the nonsense during Euro 2008 was terrible behaviour. Then he left and started to say nice stuff about United and everyone goes gaga about him even more now. The player who left is loved more than the one who stayed his entire career here.
Whether Rooney is a legend or not, it's down to personal opinion but it's much different with the incidents surrounding Ronaldo. Ronaldo is Portuguese and like most kids from that side of the world they probably grew up watching Real and Barca and they will naturally have a tendency to prefer them just like Fibreglass and Pique did. He wanted to leave for his boyhood team without threatening us to join City or Chelsea. He and Fergie came to an agreement and promised to give Fergie one more season. Not only did he give us one more season, he gave us his absolute best season. Not only did he round off that season with unprecedented success, it followed with a world record for a transfer fee to our pocket. Legend defined!
How do you come up with stuff like this? It's amazing! Wayne Rooney, is this you?
He actually left.
He's a scouse after all I doubt United is his favorite club.
While i believe there were some contacts with Chelsea 3 years ago. I don't believe for a second he actually wanted to go to City, that link never made sense. It was most likely paper bullshit.
Then it should have been denied in the media. A United player doesn't come back from that if the allegations are true. The moment Heinze wanted to join Liverpool he was gone from the club.
Denis law actually played for city. Does that mean you don't consider him a legend?
Juve were not letting Pogba go a few months back. this is typical stand off for clubs with an asset. What is interesting is even back then no top clubs on the continent wanted him, and that's when his stock was high
Really? You think Ronaldo agreeing with Blatter's comments about being a slave at United were perfectly fine? Or did you find the bit where he passed remarks like "I like playing in white" to your liking? Or was his refusal to put away the rumors the entire 2008 summer? Or is it the fact that he interviewed himself on Sky and said he's staying and left 2 weeks later? Or was it the two transfer requests that he put in make him much better than Rooney?
Say what you want about Rooney. He kept his "desire to leave" quiet and never behaved remotely as shockingly as Ronaldo did when he wanted to leave. It's very easy to leave the club and then go on and talk lovingly about United/Fergie etc etc. Actions speaker louder than words and he left and Rooney stayed on here. This bizarre revisionism when it comes to Ronaldo really baffles me. He was a disgrace that summer and left.
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I understand your sentiments concerning Ronaldo's behaviour during the 08 season, I agree it was absolutely infuriating at the time but Ronaldo is no longer here and he's not commanding a starting place in our team with diminished abitilites.
All I'd said was that Ronaldo behaved far worse than Rooney ever has and @dichinero found that ridiculous for some reason. Rooney is hated by United fans majorly for the two transfer requests. How the same fans are head over heels in love with Ronaldo is something I always fail to understand.
Gosh, you are desperate aren't you? You have used quotations of a 23 year old Ronaldo that spanned for a measly 4 months regarding his transfer is Ronaldo misbehaving more than Rooney? You compare that to two transfer requests? To Rooney questioning Fergie and United's football ambition? Who was the swearing at the cameras? Who was the one that reportedly came into training drunk? Who was the one that told coaches that he did not need to push himself more in training because he had nothing to prove? Your bias for Rooney is on another level, like pen pal kind of level!
I heard rumours Rooney questioned the manager's ambitions and the quality of his teammates. Was that untrue?
Ronaldo started talking of his "dream" in 06, which was understandable after what happened. He continued all of the summer of 08 and then went on till he left. And yeah Rooney was concerned over the quality of players we were bringing and in hindsight, he was kind of right. If we'd replaced players better and bought in better quality than Obertan and Owen for Tevez and Ronaldo, maybe we wouldn't have struggled the way we did post Fergie.
Call me a Rooney fanboy all you want but the fact is that Ronaldo was an absolute disgrace the way he behaved. Rooney went to Fergie privately and apparently told him maybe we should buy better players. Ronaldo went out in public and contradicted something Fergie said just days before. History has been rewritten now but Ronaldo's behavior that summer was nothing less than shocking.
What?
What does Ronaldo have to do with Rooney's current decline as a player?
Law didn't want to go though...
He did deny it though to be fair.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/9230652.stm
