Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Rajma said:
All these poor animals…
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I know the people of Ukraine have suffered hugely and is awful to see and read about. Would never wish what they are going through on another human.

But when I see something like this I just hate the human race at times and how much other species have to suffer at our hands without any regard or thought

upsetting to see
 
Russian sources are claiming UAF has launched another major offensive, this time toward Tokmak. So no doubt we'll be hearing reports soon that they've defeated it, killed 5k troops, 100 tanks and 20 F-16's.
 
massi83 said:
So there was nothing wrong about labeling the people who thought US did as conspiracy theorist, at the time.
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Or those who thought Russia did it....maybe. That's the thing about underhand actions perpetrated for unclear reasons. Folk have to theorise some sort of conspiracy because that's what it took to plan and enact the event.

I thought Russia did it, though I was definitely hazy about their motivations. Who was your money on?
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Or those who thought Russia did it....maybe. That's the thing about underhand actions perpetrated for unclear reasons. Folk have to theorise some sort of conspiracy because that's what it took to plan and enact the event.

I thought Russia did it, though I was definitely hazy about their motivations. Who was your money on?
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My money still on the Russians doing it, mainly from the effort they put in to suggest the US did it.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Or those who thought Russia did it....maybe. That's the thing about underhand actions perpetrated for unclear reasons. Folk have to theorise some sort of conspiracy because that's what it took to plan and enact the event.

I thought Russia did it, though I was definitely hazy about their motivations. Who was your money on?
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I thought probably Russia, but didn't really think that made sense, but that has never stopped Russia.

Ukraine doing it makes some sense, but it wouldn't have been my tactic. Seems like there's more to lose than to gain.

But huge difference between Ukraine pissing off Germany and US doing it. Would be very bizarre geopolitical action from US, whereas, at the time, Germany was rather useless for Ukraine.
 
massi83 said:
I thought probably Russia, but didn't really think that made sense, but that has never stopped Russia.

Ukraine doing it makes some sense, but it wouldn't have been my tactic. Seems like there's more to lose than to gain.

But huge difference between Ukraine pissing off Germany and US doing it. Would be very bizarre geopolitical action from US, whereas, at the time, Germany was rather useless for Ukraine.
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Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
 
stefan92 said:
Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
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Yes he did. And he did it to deter Russia from invading. There certainly is a case to be made that not following through on that threat would be very dangerous, as it would embolden Putin further.
 
stefan92 said:
Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
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Threatening Russia about it pre-war, is a very different situation, than to do it and potentially damage US relations with Germany and other EU countries when unity is needed.

Whereas if Russia actually did conquer Ukraine, then go ahead and blow it up, why not. But the situation in Septembet didn't warrant that action.
 
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Biden did shut down nordstream within a week of the invasion, long before the bombing.
 
massi83 said:
Threatening Russia about it pre-war, is a very different situation, than to do it and potentially damage US relations with Germany and other EU countries when unity is needed.

Whereas if Russia actually did conquer Ukraine, then go ahead and blow it up, why not. But the situation in Septembet didn't warrant that action.
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As Nord Stream is/was partially owned by German companies it was a threat against German interests and considering that Nord Stream 2 was stopped for some months vy US sanctions against German companies it's just wrong to limit these actions to "threatening Russia".

The US/German relations were definitely negatively affected by this.
 
Simbo said:
Biden did shut down nordstream within a week of the invasion, long before the bombing.
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He didn't. His sanctions did not stop it, the decision was made in the German government to reduce and phase out it's usage (and to not letting NS2 become operational).

The USA are not a world government and such posts are just ignorant.
 
stefan92 said:
As Nord Stream is/was partially owned by German companies it was a threat against German interests and considering that Nord Stream 2 was stopped for some months vy US sanctions against German companies it's just wrong to limit these actions to "threatening Russia".

The US/German relations were definitely negatively affected by this.
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I don't think anyone cared what Germany thought at the time. Now sure, in September probably. Pre-war and first couple of months, feck Germany.
 
stefan92 said:
He didn't. His sanctions did not stop it, the decision was made in the German government to reduce and phase out it's usage (and to not letting NS2 become operational).

The USA are not a world government and such posts are just ignorant.
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With no pressure/influence from the US? I doubt.
 
Simbo said:
With no pressure/influence from the US? I doubt.
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If Biden was able to force Germany to completely change their energy supply, don't you think the would have done something about countries like Greece by now?
 
do.ob said:
If Biden was able to force Germany to completely change their energy supply, don't you think the would have done something about countries like Greece by now?
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I don't know about that, but in the statement everybody likes to bring up when Biden stated he will shut down Nordstream 2 if Russia invades, he appeared very confident he does have the influence to do it. His words "I promise you, we'll be able to do it".

Don't ask me how, I'm sure its more complex than asking nicely, but POTUS does have influence believe it or not and he's a seasoned diplomat. Shell pulled out of the Nordstream deal on 1st March, that was one of the nails in the coffin. Shell just so happen to be massively exposed to US policy.

Perhaps it was all Germany and Biden didn't have to do anything... Just the vibe German politicians were giving to the outside world at the time wasn't very encouraging. Perhaps stefan can correct me on that and their was a lot of internal support for it?

edit: just doing some googling from around the time. The US issued sanctions against Nord Stream 2 AG, the Russian owned Swiss company. Dead.
 
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Simbo said:
I don't know about that, but in the statement everybody likes to bring up when Biden stated he will shut down Nordstream 2 if Russia invades, he appeared very confident he does have the influence to do it. His words "I promise you, we'll be able to do it".

Don't ask me how, I'm sure its more complex than asking nicely, but POTUS does have influence believe it or not and he's a seasoned diplomat. Shell pulled out of the Nordstream deal on 1st March, that was one of the nails in the coffin. Shell just so happen to be massively exposed to US policy.

Perhaps it was all Germany and Biden didn't have to do anything... Just the vibe German politicians were giving to the outside world at the time wasn't very encouraging. Perhaps stefan can correct me on that and their was a lot of internal support for it?

edit: just doing some googling from around the time. The US issued sanctions against Nord Stream 2 AG, the Russian owned Swiss company. Dead.
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It wasn't directly dead, some of the companies pulled out and were replaced to finalize Nord Stream 2, which was done.

It was dead when the operating license was refused, which was the easy trick the German government used.

None of this affected NS1.
 
stefan92 said:
Biden openly threatened to shut down Nordstream by all means.
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This happened before the war started. If at that time Germany agreed with Biden that if Russia invades Ukraine they will kill both Nord Stream pipelines, then the Russians probably would not have started the war. But the German stance encouraged Putin. Putin believed that perhaps the Germans will help him, like a Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact mk2. Unfortunately, the German stance from 2014 - 2022 has played a major role in allowing this war.

Since then, and after the first few months of the war, Germany has decided to help Ukraine (only after considerable pressure from the US), and since then contributed a lot. But it would be better for everyone if Germany was clearly and unequivocally on Ukraine's side between 2014-22, Putin would not have started this war.
 
stefan92 said:
I do believe that the context is pretty clear, it is in the thread title.
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No, the context is not clear. Biden talked about NS2, before the war, and only if Russia invades Ukraine. That should have been the position of the German State as well, it is unimaginable that Germany would continue with NS2 while Russia is killing Ukrainians. Biden stated the obvious, nothing more.


But there are more lies here. You keep referring to Biden when talking about the Nord Stream 1 explosion. This is deception. You imply that Biden talked about Nord Stream 1, so perhaps the Americans are behind the explosion because Biden made threats. That's lying without actually telling the lie, since you only imply "the obvious". Biden never said anything about NS1.
 
It's a shame that the UN couldn't show a bit of muscle over this dam crisis and enforce a brief "no fly zone" to evacuate people. The reluctance of the west to provide more aid is appalling, but I can understand that actually providing humanitarian relief is very problematic when in an active war site. I suspect the Russians would love a brief "ceasefire" to reposition in response to the counter -offensive, and have shown they don't respect such conventions anyway.

Is getting action from the UN being restricted by Russia's role on the security council at the moment - or could UNHCR act independently?
 
buchansleftleg said:
It's a shame that the UN couldn't show a bit of muscle over this dam crisis and enforce a brief "no fly zone" to evacuate people. The reluctance of the west to provide more aid is appalling, but I can understand that actually providing humanitarian relief is very problematic when in an active war site. I suspect the Russians would love a brief "ceasefire" to reposition in response to the counter -offensive, and have shown they don't respect such conventions anyway.

Is getting action from the UN being restricted by Russia's role on the security council at the moment - or could UNHCR act independently?
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A bit of everything, UN is just useless in current world.

Russian forces have been shelling the area where Ukraine is trying to evacuate people in Kherson region all morning.
 
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