Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Count me in the "modern nuclear plants may be so safe that even direct attacks don't cause catastrophe but I'd still prefer we stopped shooting at them" camp.
 


From earlier today, but if there are no Russian troops in Kharkiv, surely the West can assist in repelling these rogue assaults on Kharkiv. ;)
 
Count me in the "modern nuclear plants may be so safe that even direct attacks don't cause catastrophe but I'd still prefer we stopped shooting at them" camp.
Indeed, you only want that kind of stuff tested in reality on the moon.
 
I get the risk but I think you are going about this as if this risk is the only consideration. In an ideal world, they don't get operated but here it's human lunacy and you can never account for that, no matter what you decide to cancel.

When the risk is potentially half of Europe being made uninhabitable for centuries, that is (or should be) the only consideration needed. Nuclear fission power for electricity generation needs to be phased out rapidly. Germany is leading the way.

In terms of human lunacy, a lunatic might decide to target and destroy a nation's entire wind-farm capacity, causing long term power outages and shortages. But we could live with/survive that and rebuild them. We can't live with radiation.
 
You made an absolutely ridiculous point comparing a decommissioned nuclear disaster site with an active threat. So, yes, what you said is clueless since the tweet is 30 minutes old.

There's literally no clarity at the moment and you think I'm being overly dramatic because of a huge potential disaster.

Also, you might feel different if people you cared about were in the way of this.

No, the point wasn't about Chernobyl itself at all, you've make a completely ridiculous misread of what I said.

In people's minds, they automatically assume nuclear power station plus tanks = bad, but there is actually very little danger of something like the Chernobyl disaster happening because of this.

I brought it up because people got hysterical about Chernobyl when the Russians rolled into it last week when there was no need to. They got hysterical because of the above connection - 'nuclear + tanks = oh shit!'

You are being overly dramatic. And no, because if there was a particular danger of a huge explosion/meltdown and radioactivity contaminating Europe then myself and people I care about would be in the way of this.

The press and social media posts pandering to people's emotions and stoking things by over-dramaticising it helps absolutely nothing and makes people feel worse. When they captured Chernobyl people were all like 'OMG WE'RE GONNA DIE' when as you pointed out, the only thing that changed at all was 30+ years old dust being kicked up by movement, no danger whatsoever.
 
This is the MoFA speaking.


How intellectually deficient of a soldier can you be to even fire shells this close to a nuclear power plant? :wenger::wenger::wenger: Those feckers would be among the very first to be exposed to deadly levels of radiation, so much that they will be begging for that bullet in the morning if an accident happens.
 
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I thought people knew that already? The entire reason why the oligarchs are so weak and undermined by Putin constantly is because he holds all the keys to their wealth and it's really his to play with.

He's the world's richest man by a long, long way.
 
I thought people knew that already? The entire reason why the oligarchs are so weak and undermined by Putin constantly is because he holds all the keys to their wealth and it's really his to play with.

He's the world's richest man by a long, long way.

I thought most people already knew that?
 


It's not helpful to talk about for public figures, but Lindsay is a moron. We're all hoping for it, but don't say it on TV if you're a US Senator. Lavrov and Putin will no doubt jump on it as evidence of the US trying to orchestrate regime change in Russia.
 
It's not helpful to talk about for public figures, but Lindsay is a moron. We're all hoping for it, but don't say it on TV if you're a US Senator. Lavrov and Putin will no doubt jump on it as evidence of the US trying to orchestrate regime change in Russia.

It's also the kind of thing Putin would treat as an 'act of war'

Complete smoothbrain move from Graham.
 
It's not helpful to talk about for public figures, but Lindsay is a moron. We're all hoping for it, but don't say it on TV if you're a US Senator. Lavrov and Putin will no doubt jump on it as evidence of the US trying to orchestrate regime change in Russia.
Absolutely. This is enough for Putin scream dirty play at the West even though he's in the process of annihilating a whole nation
 
He's saying what many are thinking, but don't feel comfortable saying.

There's a reason most people aren't comfortable saying it. Wouldn't surprise me if Graham had been given the message to say it so Russia can ramp up their reaction to the west helping Ukraine. We know he's crooked as feck.

Although there is the enitrely reasonable alternative that he's just a fecking cretin.
 
He's saying what many are thinking, but don't feel comfortable saying.
His current position should make it prohibitive from making such statements unless he wants to feck it all up when Joe Biden is working hard to keep the unity going.
 
I read this earlier, and while I agree that it is terrible to have to standby and watch, that it would be naive to assume that Putin wouldn't go nuclear if NATO were to be involved militarily.
Sadly, Putin can depend on this strain of thought to enable him to finish the job in Ukraine. We do nothing, he's emboldened. Truism, but fact. We've been approaching this confrontation since at least Georgia, 2008, when the US considered then rejected the idea of bombing the tunnel through which Russian soldiers were pouring into that country.

Joe Wood, the deputy assistant for national security affairs to the hawkish Cheney, was in Georgia shortly before the war broke out, but in the end he didn’t advocate bombing the tunnel. He said he’s still unsure “whether or not it should have been more seriously considered.

“We will know the answer to that question in 10 to 20 years,” he said. “If Russia continues to assert itself either militarily or through other coercive means to claim a sphere of influence, we will look back at this as a time that they were able to change boundaries in Europe without much reaction,” he said. “And then we’ll say we should have considered harder options.”

“If not, then not using military action in this case will probably turn out to have been good judgment,” he said.


https://www.politico.com/story/2010/02/us-pondered-military-use-in-georgia-032487

Elsewhere, it is said that Putin halted on a full occupation because he feared Cheney was mooting the idea of strikes. And he believed Cheney was someone who'd follow through with the threat and actually take action.
https://www.ft.com/content/3189c20b-251d-3345-a475-0d9093a98567

There is talk of large NATO exercises in coming days and they are essential. (Trump cancelled SK-US annual military exercises near to the DMZ and it was a giveaway that costs allied forces defence readiness to this now potentially out of control moment. ) It was a capitulationist step backwards to cancel the minuteman exercises this week. At the very least, all allies have to be absolutely ready to fight tonight and to send the message to Putin that they are ready to fight tonight if he crosses another border.
 
Sadly, Putin can depend on this strain of thought to enable him to finish the job in Ukraine. We do nothing, he's emboldened. Truism, but fact. We've been approaching this confrontation since at least Georgia, 2008, when the US considered then rejected the idea of bombing the tunnel through which Russian soldiers were pouring into that country.

I mean I agree, but that's the awful catch-22. I don't really buy that Putin's mental health is questionable, but I do wonder if, after the week he's had watching his economy fall apart and the world turning on him, it'd be the final act that drove him to lash out. He's spoken quite recently, less than two months ago of how he knows Russia can't match NATO in conventional warfare, but he's certainly confident that Russia's atomic arsenal and delivery systems are the world's best.
 
I mean I agree, but that's the awful catch-22. I don't really buy that Putin's mental health is questionable, but I do wonder if, after the week he's had watching his economy fall apart and the world turning on him, it'd be the final act that drove him to lash out. He's spoken quite recently, less than two months ago of how he knows Russia can't match NATO in conventional warfare, but he's certainly confident that Russia's atomic arsenal and delivery systems are the world's best.
He's an ethnic-nationalist mythomaniac who's just spent two years in a bunker stewing in history books. The very least we show him is maximalist defence posture readiness. Only this, together with the harshest economic sanctions ever seen and full cultural/social/travel boycotts of Russia, might start rumblings amongst the FSB or the 'oligarchs' or a 'more palatable strongman'. We have to be willing to bear the pain of risk.