Every military in every country in the world has at least a few bad apples. The difference with Russian troops is that it's systemic - they are actively encouraged by their commanders to behave in such ways as part of their doctrine of war-fighting.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Every military in every country in the world has at least a few bad apples. The difference with Russian troops is that it's systemic - they are actively encouraged by their commanders to behave in such ways as part of their doctrine of war-fighting.
Sure, but the German invasion of Poland was technically just a regional conflict between two authoritarian states. Those descriptions are about as simplistic as each other.
I don't think that we need to dismiss the allegations. They can be investigated and if guilt is established the perpetrators should be punished.
You read all 74 pages of proven systemic war crimes ordered from the highest level of the "democratic" Ukrainian government in just 90 seconds? I've under-estimated your intelligence.
So I suppose you would accept an osce investigation into the actions of the Russian army in Ukraine ?
Then what would be the point of the invasion; because there were crimes we send an army to commit many more and all kinds of crimes ? Explain that to me.
I agree - and I haven't dismissed the allegations.
France showed that back in 2003 when they tried to prevent the US from bringing democracy to Irak... But they've learned since then and led the way in bringing democracy to Libya.
On a more serious note, what are you basing this on? They encouraged Finland and Sweden to join Nato and issued a strong statement supporting the process, bringing Nato closer to Russia (not really something "appeasing" for Putin).
Their foreign minister was in Ukraine this week and announced sending in more heavy artillery...
I haven't read all that guy's posts but he strikes me as someone who thinks that we all think Ukraine is the bestest and most morally righteous country in the world.
I assume most posters here on the Caf would know Ukraine is actually quite corrupt and most likely not ready for EU-membership. But guess what, that is all besides the point anyway. In this conflict Russia is the clear aggressor.
I suggest you take your absurd attempts to paint an equivalence between the Ukrainian and Russian governments - all designed to somehow justify Russia's invasion - and shove them where the sun don't shine.
I know - that bit was more addressed to our mutual friend!
To your first point, absolutely yes, I not only 'accept' that but I welcome it, and one is currently going on (not only from OSCE by the way). The Russian army is committing war crimes now in Ukraine and those who are doing it and ordering it should be held responsible, especially Putin. How many times do I need to type this? I'll try once more: EVERY last shred of moral high ground Putin perceived he had over the 'war-mongering West' was napalmed the day (March 16th) he deliberately bombed Ukrainian children in the Mariupol theatre.
And forgive me for being blunt but your 2nd 'point' is silly. You very obviously have no idea what any of this conflict is about beyond what you've been drip-fed about "Russia is invading a flourishing democracy because it's a threat to Putin's autocracy!" On February 23rd Putin explained his rationale for the invasion and he also stated his 3 aims. You are free to disagree with him but in order to do that you must first know what he actually said. It's clear to me that you don't.
It's late here and I'm done for the night.
That point in the future will be reached sooner if the West manage to cut Russia off from China, and for that to happen there needs to be some sort of a comprehensive deal -a truce in the "cold trade war"?- with China to make them throw the Russian regime under the bus. Push the commercial conflict with China down the line. And hope the regime in China learns a lesson from Putin's fate...
Tens of thousands of dead civilians in Ukraine because of Russian aggresion but according to Macron the important thing is that Russia dosent get humiliated. To me that sound like France doesnt give a shit about Ukraine or the Ukrainians, they only want Russias cheap gas and oil no matter the cost of human suffering.
Where did I write something about a flourishing democracy in Ukraine ? And I‘ve read what Putin said, for example to denazify the Ukraine … well yes I disagree
thanks for the answer anyway
And that's America's domain dammit!!!
Ok with that easy but admittedly cheap shot I really am off for the night.
If Western Europe was sensible we would all move to 100% renewables as soon as practically possible, and not flinch in that task.
Could you succinctly state your view of this war? I'm genuinely interested. Do you believe Russia had legitimate reasons to invade Ukraine ?
Well America is caring about the Ukrainians in this conflict and more so than anyone else.
I don't think he's ever said that. And I find it weird to be sending some of France's deadliest material to Ukraine if he really thought it was so important to avoid Russia's humiliation.
Oil has been stopped already... France consumes very little Gas in general. It is only 15% of their energy consumption (Nuclear energy first). And only 15% of that gas comes from Russia. Amounting to less than 2,5 % of France's energy consumption.
I'll answer this more completely tomorrow (knackered now) but very briefly: legitimate reasons to invade? Absolutely no. Legitimate concerns and grievances? Absolutely yes (and pretty much nobody denies this, even the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres stated it after he met Putin last month and said his biggest regret was that the UN didn't get involved sooner as a mediator in the Donbas war that started in 2014). But no concerns and no grievances justify invading Ukraine, much less justify the horror of what he's now doing. He had countless other routes he could have taken to address his concerns. Putin's biggest complaint is that nobody in the West listens to him but he'd have more success finding a willing audience there if he stopped poisoning his critics on their soil and messing around with their elections.
Well that is when this invasion started so unless Guterres thinks he could have convinced Putin to pull back his forces to pre 2014 invasion borders I don't see what the UN could have accomplished.
Ok. This sounds humiliating in itself. Saying we gotta avoid humiliating Russia is enough humiliation. But it is still doesn't mean what you wrote:
You said : " but according to Macron the important thing is that Russia dosent get humiliated. To me that sound like France doesnt give a shit about Ukraine or the Ukrainians, they only want Russias cheap gas and oil no matter the cost of human suffering. "
I am not saying France (or Germany, or Poland, or anyone) cares enough about Ukrainians for humanity or something like that. Governments normally care about their own interests, and Ukraine happens to align with those interests. And France is certainly doing as much as could be expected of them in helping Ukraine (non-EU, non-Nato member). It is sad the West isn't doing more, but actually it is doing a lot compared to what was expected...
The word ‘Trump’ is doing all of the heavy lifting in that tweet.
Well, look who was in charge then.
feck me, did you really type all that shit? Let's hope the war is over ASAP without all your stressy bollox
First of all, please don't mix in Poland with the likes of Germany and France. Poland is taking in milions of Ukrainian refugees all while donating more material than most other nations so they should not be compared to the likes of Germany and France. And no France is not doing as much as could be expected of them when their leader seems more intersted in saving face for the Russian murderes then anything else.
You actually believe anything that Putin says? Good grief.
Putin invaded Ukraine for a combination of reasons, including (as a major reason) because he fears the example to the Russian people of a free and democratic Ukraine, but also because he wants to restore some mythical "Golden Age" of Russian Empire (with himself seen as saviour Tsar), wants to distract the younger generation of Russians from sliding away from Soviet values towards Western liberalism, and also because he is lost in delusions that he can shift the international order in Russia's favour by confronting the West.
On that basis I hereby reclaim the USA for England.
Gun-ownership will be banned, all American spellings will be changed, and American supporters of Spurs will become your new national role-models.
How about healthcare? I can stomach the spelling for healthcare
This article (sorry for the paywall but you get the gist here) is relevant on that subject, as well as the impact of sanctions which has been in question…
Understood, thanks for the reply - It's always nice to see a different perspective with these things. Such a messy situation. Personally, I agree with what Glaston has written below pretty much exactly. Not that it matters now I suppose, war is war. How it will end is the question now..
As was pointed out in another thread, if you go to this site
https://archive.ph/
And type in the URL of the article you want to read, you can get a HTML version of the text.
https://archive.ph/
And type in the URL of the article you want to read, you can get a HTML version of the text.
You have a really weird view of western journalism. There was never anything even remotely close to unanimity among them neither in making predictions nor in what should be done about the invasion and you very conveniently leave out that at the beginning of invasion the consensus was much closer to "it's only a matter of days, maybe weeks, before full occupation of Ukraine" and even a ton of relative optimists weren't really pointing to any real possibility of Ukraine holding anything, but were pointing that occupation might be too expensive for Russia to be viable.
Overarching trends might have changed (which to a certain extent is to be expected, since changes on the ground are not consistent Ukrainian gains anymore), but you could absolutely find those voices since start of the invasion (and regarding inflation in a lot of countries even before it). Those editorials really aren't nearly as special as you seem to imply.