Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Mike Smalling said:
Disregarding the whole NATO vs. non-NATO discussion, at what point does the situation become so dire that the West would think about stepping in? The threshold for what is a war crime has surely already been met, of course, and civilians are dying in the thousands.

Or does Putin simply have a free pass to do whatever, because Ukraine is neither NATO nor EU, and he can wave around his nukes as a deterrent?
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No matter how ugly it gets (except for a nuke I reckon), the West won't step in. It is what it is.

And it's not like Putin is getting a totally free pass: Ukraine receives weapons and Russia is being heavily sanctioned. But yeah, other than that, Ukraine is on their own.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
The Soviets were particularly notorious for throwing mine-carrying dogs against German tanks during WW2. Just fecked up stuff indeed, but that Russian general in particular probably watched The Fifth Wave a few times too many.
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I don't think that actually worked. They trained the dogs with stationary Russian tanks not mobile German ones so the dogs tended to run to the tanks they were trained to run at. I think.


Edit - Bat Bombs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
 
Penna said:
Mariupol is in a terrible, dire situation, according to various news sources. There is little food, virtually no drinking water, the shops and pharmacies are all empty, bodies are being thrown into mass graves and it's freezing cold.

There will be thousands of deaths due to starvation and disease if people aren't able to leave.
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Don't think it'll be too long before they have to surrender the city. Russia won't let aid through as they're counting on it being unconscionable for women and children to starve.
 
Smores said:
Don't think it'll be too long before they have to surrender the city. Russia won't let aid through as they're counting on it being unconscionable for women and children to starve.
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Grim. Would the west really let him starve whole cities to avoid direct confrontation?
 
VorZakone said:
No matter how ugly it gets (except for a nuke I reckon), the West won't step in. It is what it is.

And it's not like Putin is getting a totally free pass: Ukraine receives weapons and Russia is being heavily sanctioned. But yeah, other than that, Ukraine is on their own.
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It's depressing as feck, though. Especially considering we will probably be talking about something else entirely in 3-4 weeks.
 
Smores said:
Don't think it'll be too long before they have to surrender the city. Russia won't let aid through as they're counting on it being unconscionable for women and children to starve.
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There aren't words to describe how wicked it is to target civilians in this way.
 
Mike Smalling said:
It's depressing as feck, though. Especially considering we will probably be talking about something else entirely in 3-4 weeks.
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I think everybody's kinda waiting for the battle of Kyiv. Once that is done with, I expect a serious decrease in media coverage. I know this sounds very cynical, but that's what I expect.
 
moses said:
I'm not sure the people will accept that. The news is full of plucky brave proud and even jocular Ukranians who endure suffering bravely. That's a hugely different narrative for our governments to sell compared to starvation.
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The people can complain all they want but the leaders are wise enough to not intervene militarily.

The West will do anything it can to persuade Russia to allow humanitarian aid or to allow evacuation. But we're at Russia's mercy on that issue...
 
VorZakone said:
I think everybody's kinda waiting for the battle of Kyiv. Once that is done with, I expect a serious decrease in media coverage. I know this sounds very cynical, but that's what I expect.
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All depends on what happens though with the West. But it won't completely go because sanctions will be in place for a while and the impact of them still massive for everyone else. The pressure will then be about when to lift then or what happens next

(All on the assumption Russia eventually get Ukraine under their control)
 
VorZakone said:
I think everybody's kinda waiting for the battle of Kyiv. Once that is done with, I expect a serious decrease in media coverage. I know this sounds very cynical, but that's what I expect.
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That's a battle that is likely to take months, if not years.

Man, I hope Putin is whacked by someone on the inside. Not likely, I know, but one can dream.
 
Smores said:
Don't think it'll be too long before they have to surrender the city. Russia won't let aid through as they're counting on it being unconscionable for women and children to starve.
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Would they shoot down western planes that try to drop food in?

Speaking of which, the Candy Bomber died last month
 
moses said:
Grim. Would the west really let him starve whole cities to avoid direct confrontation?
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They'll probably push Zelenskyy to give it up. That's kinda assuming Russia wants to take it quickly, they may just continue the siege to build further pressure on talks.

Grim indeed.
 
berbatrick said:
FNgI_WnXwAASJch
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So basically, this is Russia’s Brexit… but worse.

Wtf is wrong with Boomers as a generation? Serious question.
 
Charlie Foley said:
Would they shoot down western planes that try to drop food in?

Speaking of which, the Candy Bomber died last month
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The Russian MoD would rightfully accuse the west of bacteriologic attacks after the discovery of salmonella.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
So basically, this is Russia’s Brexit… but worse.

Wtf is wrong with Boomers as a generation? Serious question.
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If I was in Russia and the phone went and somebody said hi Mr Tzu of we know where you live street... Do you support the special military operation

I would be all hail Darth putin and confirming my support quicker than they can say off to the gulag
 
Charlie Foley said:
Would they shoot down western planes that try to drop food in?

Speaking of which, the Candy Bomber died last month
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Honestly, it's worth trying as means to show the world a starker contrast between democracies and autocracies. The Soviets did feck all during the Berlin Airlift that lasted nearly a year in 1948-1949, and that was despite the fact that West Berlin was already surrounded by East Germany. Nevertheless, we will need pilots with balls of steel to do that.

edit: When I meant "feck all", I meant that the Soviet did not shoot down planes carrying the goods.
 
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Rhyme Animal said:
So basically, this is Russia’s Brexit… but worse.

Wtf is wrong with Boomers as a generation? Serious question.
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Ah in the past different populations had vastly different versions of events. It's not new. The imperialist has rarely told citizens the truth. And nationalism is often built on pseudohistory.
 
sun_tzu said:
If I was in Russia and the phone went and somebody said hi Mr Tzu of we know where you live street... Do you support the special military operation

I would be all hail Darth putin and confirming my support quicker than they can say off to the gulag
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True, of course.

But also true is that, to generalise, Boomers are wrecking the planet and are a dangerous generation - Boomer leaders are utter maniacs.

Note - I’m talking generationally, I have friends and heroes who are Boomers (who agree with this point).
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
Honestly, it's worth trying as means to show the world a starker contrast between democracies and autocracies. The Soviets did feck all during the Berlin Airlift that lasted nearly a year in 1948-1949, and that was despite the fact that West Berlin was already surrounded by East Germany. Nevertheless, we will need pilots with balls of steel to do that.
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Yeah who would sign up to pilot those planes in an active war zone?
 
VorZakone said:
No matter how ugly it gets (except for a nuke I reckon), the West won't step in. It is what it is.

And it's not like Putin is getting a totally free pass: Ukraine receives weapons and Russia is being heavily sanctioned. But yeah, other than that, Ukraine is on their own.
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What about if chemical weapons are used? I could see that as a justification for at least a NFZ.
 
calodo2003 said:
What about if chemical weapons are used? I could see that as a justification for at least a NFZ.
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I think any WMD use would change the calculus for NATO. Putin using thermobarics and other massive/destructive non-WMDs is probably as far as he could go without drawing NATO in by using a WMD. Even if he does the false flag chemical attack as was reported yesterday, I think that would change the calculus.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
Thanks. It's still crazy!


Listen, just load me up with breadcrumbs filled with a bioweapon and I'll shit in Putin's mouth. I did it with Ashley Young and I can do it again.
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That's how you define a "dove of peace"!
 
Rhyme Animal said:
So basically, this is Russia’s Brexit… but worse.

Wtf is wrong with Boomers as a generation? Serious question.
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No media competence unfortunately. The technique outran their ability to adapt. Also it's easier to just stick with your opinion than admit you've been wrong all along. Admitting climate change in the end means that your generation caused it as a boomer. Probably the same with conspiracy theories and propaganda. If you've spent years telling your child that these internet media are lying and the state TV is the reliable source, pride is a huge obstacle I suppose.
 
moses said:
There are bizarre tales of attempts to weaponise animals or use them to activate weapons. Humans are fecking nuts.
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I think CIA tried to train a cat with a listening implant to spy for them against Soviet diplomats, spending about $20 mil on it only for the cat to get hit by a random taxi during its first field mission. Both CIA & KGB had so many weird projects during the Cold War :lol:
 
harms said:
I think CIA tried to train a cat with a listening implant to spy for them against Soviet diplomats, spending about $20 mil on it only for the cat to get hit by a random taxi during its first field mission. Both CIA & KGB had so many weird projects during the Cold War :lol:
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Ah you have to admire a creative mind!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon
 
Zehner said:
No media competence unfortunately. The technique outran their ability to adapt. Also it's easier to just stick with your opinion than admit you've been wrong all along. Admitting climate change in the end means that your generation caused it as a boomer. Probably the same with conspiracy theories and propaganda. If you've spent years telling your child that these internet media are lying and the state TV is the reliable source, pride is a huge obstacle I suppose.
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Indeed. Boomer leaders are very proud and stubborn also, almost to a rule.
 
Mike Smalling said:
That's a battle that is likely to take months, if not years.

Man, I hope Putin is whacked by someone on the inside. Not likely, I know, but one can dream.
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I think it'll be much faster than that, the Ukrainian forces have done a great job but must be getting depleted now, it's unlikely they'll engage in prolonged urban warfare with massive damage to their own civilians. It's not going to be Stalingrad ver 2.0. Once the city is surrounded it'll fall quickly, maybe next weekend.
 
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