RedTiger
Half mast
Presidential advisor has to issue a statement telling soldiers to refrain from insulting Muslims.
Yeah I think that's the way it seems to be going. I'm not sure it will work. It could, but equally likely is that Russia plays the Eurasian market and cuts itself off from the European market. EU states are not far away from no longer needing Russian energy, but the Asian market absolutely needs it. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Russia reenters the European/American system even post-Putin. All speculative at this point but signs are an Oceanic sphere is taking shape, helped or primed by the invasion of Ukraine, and that this sphere may well be cut off, Cold War style, from the Eurasian/Chinese sphere. I think the US going back to Maduro for oil and trying to prize Iran away from China are key signs of this, but that is another topic for another thread. Basic point is that it isn't certain Russia will reset to a Western facing strategy post-Putin or that whoever/whatever replaces him will be more friendly.The best strategy at this point does seem to be to keep sanctions, have Putin's removal as a necessary condition for normalizing relations with the west and continue to apply pressure for him leaving now. I think it's far too dangerous to let him remain in power and hope something happens in 5, 10, 15 years after his actions in the last few months. I don't see a problem with anything Biden said so far, it's a sound approach.
Russia is a militaristic state of strongmen. Putin will know that he has to find a way out and has to have known this before Ukraine. He can't bank on staying in power forever. Maybe his aim is to stay in office until he dies, we can't know either way, and as you say Grassley is 89, Pelosi is 82, Biden is 79. But the older he gets the more people around him will be thinking about post-Putin Russia which is a very real factor that you cannot dismiss, especially in a state like Russia. His entire standing is based on being a strongman, not an eighty year old pensioner. If he stays in power, I don't see him staying beyond five or six years whether he wants to or not. In fact, much of the US strategy might be oriented toward trying to force him out early (making those people ask the questions that maybe wouldn't have been asked until nearer the end of the decade).
What's the basis for this assumption?
Yeah I think that's the way it seems to be going. I'm not sure it will work. It could, but equally likely is that Russia plays the Eurasian market and cuts itself off from the European market. EU states are not far away from no longer needing Russian energy, but the Asian market absolutely needs it. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Russia reenters the European/American system even post-Putin. All speculative at this point but signs are an Oceanic sphere is taking shape, helped or primed by the invasion of Ukraine, and that this sphere may well be cut off, Cold War style, from the Eurasian/Chinese sphere. I think the US going back to Maduro for oil and trying to prize Iran away from China are key signs of this, but that is another topic for another thread. Basic point is that it isn't certain Russia will reset to a Western facing strategy post-Putin or that whoever/whatever replaces him will be more friendly.
A Russia that was guaranteed certain security matters (I'm talking post-Putin) and autonomy, would also be a potential economic behemoth because of its Eurasian position. With its population size, land mass, and energy/rare earth materials, its economy should be roughly twice the size of Germany's (or almost half that of the United States) instead of just under $2tn. The question is whether the Russian ruling class will sacrifice whatever they view as essential to a nationalistic Russia to reenter the European/American order.The entire purpose of him staying in power indefinitely is because he would be arrested and executed if were to leave. He is very aware of this, which is why he won’t relinquish control until he’s overthrown from within. Gorbachev is still alive and kicking in his 90s and Putin is in far better physical shape than Gorby, and could easily remain in power for another 20-30 years. The world shouldn’t be held hostage by a madman with nukes for that time, which is why he needs to go now. A democratic Russia that loosely integrates into Europe will alleviate a massive burden of pressure on the international system.
It is been said that he won't seek reelection in 2024. On paper at least, the next president will have less power from 2024 onwards, and the federal parliament will hold more power.
But the real dynamics of power are much more complex than that. It is not just an almighty president steering everything.
https://carnegiemoscow.org/commentary/81037
And most of their silo-based nukes wouldn’t even launch. I knew a missile tech in the early 90s who said at the time that roughly 60 to 70% of their silos had water in the base.A paper tiger if there ever was one.
Going by everything that we know it’s a certainty that he at least plans to get himself re-elected in 2024.It is been said that he won't seek reelection in 2024. On paper at least, the next president will have less power from 2024 onwards, and the federal parliament will hold more power.
But the real dynamics of power are much more complex than that. It is not just an almighty president steering everything.
https://carnegiemoscow.org/commentary/81037
Going by everything that we know it’s a certainty that he at least plans to get himself re-elected in 2024.
As for the article, it’s simply not viable as of now, too much had changed since then. There are two political observers that I’ve used to listened to that had great sources in almost every big political institution in Russia, Pertsov & Gaaza. They’ve had a podcast together where they’ve discussed the behind-the-scenes stuff on every major decision. After the 24th they’ve released one last episode, stating that their profession is dead, Russian politics is dead and we now only have one actor in this mess, Vladimir Putin.
Guys, I get why there's isn't a no fly zone all over Ukraine. Even if we wanted to, it's hard to implement where it is needed (Mariupol) because the skies there are protected by Russian AA batteries on their lands. No way are we bombing Russia.
I just think we can do more on the Western side though. There's a huge number of refugees on that side and it would be a damn shame for humanity if we can't even protect a small, tiny area of Ukrainian land. And we don't even need our planes or boots on the ground to do it.
I agree we are probably doing the right thing strategically and diplomatically by refusing as far as possible to get involved, but I feel I'm losing a bit of my humanity as each day goes on as we remain steadfastly inactive, and now we might not even protect civilians literally within eyeshot of us at the border.
It just doesn't 'feel' right.
There’s a clear edit in that clip at 0:52, right in the middle of “Russia had no right to lose this operation in Ukraine”. I wonder if he had said “war” and they’ve had to edit that. It would make sense since you can’t “lose” an “operation” (by the logic of Russian language, you can only fail one).
Both scenarios are unlikely. He had already tried the first scenario with Medvedev and ended up feeling too threatened. As for him stepping down... it's simply impossible, simply because once he's not in complete control, he's vulnerable. And he doesn't want to be vulnerable.He could choose to make someone else president at some point, which of course doesn't mean he cedes any power.
Which begs the question whether he would agree to 'step down' if negotiations ever reach the point of agreeing Russian defeat.
You want the Hollywood ending of all the good guys saving the day, that's why it doesn't feel right.
We've done all we can do and will continue to do exactly that. Anything beyond what we've already done will mean we risk a lot more for everyone.
As much as I don't want any more Ukrainians to die or be displaced, it's either them or the whole world. What would you rather do?
![]()
Both scenarios are unlikely. He had already tried the first scenario with Medvedev and ended up feeling too threatened. As for him stepping down... it's simply impossible, simply because once he's not in complete control, he's vulnerable. And he doesn't want to be vulnerable.
Didn't they pass a law making former presidents immune from prosecution a few years ago?
Protecting people/refugees in the West is hardly a Hollywood ending. It won't even affect the overall battle at all, never mind end it. It justs means we save a few more lives, that's really it.
Some people have to die, there's no resolution to this that means they don't.
As shitty as that is to the Ukrainians right now, would you rather the few or the many (relatively speaking)?
We wouldn't save any more lives by doing what you're suggesting, instead we'd put many more in the firing line.
Technically yeah. Putin didn't hesitate much to change the constitution before, so...Didn't they pass a law making former presidents immune from prosecution a few years ago?
Some people have to die, but we can definitely save those within our arms reach.
I'm not advocating we storm into Russia and give them a good beating (even though I now firmly believe we could), I simply think we could provide some measly missile protection for a small tiny bit of land on the furthest West reaches of Ukraine.
But NATO is clearly happy to watch them die unless they cross the border, so we'll just stick with that.
And they tidy up all their mess. Gonna need a lot of dustpans and brushes.
Similarly, how much would you need to be paid to go onto the TV and sell all your credibility to push this disinfo? It’s genuinely beyond the pale.
Some people have to die, but we can definitely save those within our arms reach.
I'm not advocating we storm into Russia and give them a good beating (even though I now firmly believe we could), I simply think we could provide some measly missile protection for a small tiny bit of land on the furthest West reaches of Ukraine.
But NATO is clearly happy to watch them die unless they cross the border, so we'll just stick with that.
We can't save them, because if we tried to provide anything for those 40 miles Russia would take it as NATO aggression and then they go bigger. As others have said, why only those 40 miles? Why not 100? Why not the entire country?
Surely you must see the problem here?
I don't think anybody except Putin is happy to see them die, nobody in NATO will be happy at all, what an absurd thing to say.
We can't do more than we have/are doing, we're at the red line. We're already doing an incredible amount, even if you won't recognise it.
We can't go any further in than the radar range of our anti air defences would allow. There is no way to head further East unless we put boots on the ground. In the West, we can provide some minimal protection from our side of the border.
The Ukrainians are asking why can't we do more every day. When I ask myself 'Have we done everything we possibly could?', little things like this convince me more and more that the answer is 'no'.
We don't even have the balls to say to Putin: 'We are not putting boots on the ground or shoot down your planes, but any missile that fall within our radar range will be intercepted.'
We can't even muster the courage to say that.
If they're in radar range they're still in Ukrainian territory though aren't they?
You realise if we shot down a few, he rolls out the nukes right? He's said as much, however much bluster that is, that's the cost of getting involved like you want to.
It's not Putin or a lack of balls making us scared, it's nuclear annihilation. That's the only reason we've not rolled up to Moscow right now and demanded they serve his head on a silver platter.
If you want us all to die, then by all means continue to feel we haven't done enough.
We've reacted perfectly, the fact you want more says more about you than it does about the west. You want the fight for whatever silly reason.
I completely understand the fear of nuclear annihilation. Everyone's scared of it. But to be paralysed into utter inaction by that fear? This is something that Putin exactly wants as he salami slices Europe into pieces.
And this fear is also why I increasingly believe NATO won't do much if the Baltic states get invaded. No one wants a nuclear war and the Baltic states, like Ukraine, are not important enough to risk one.
Sorry, this is just stupid sexism. There are no indications that women who are leading countries are behaving more peaceful or whatever than men do.
“Conflicts are 35 percent more likely to be resolved and remain peaceful for 15 years if women are involved,” said Carla Koppell, vice president of the Center for Applied Conflict Transformation at the United States Institute of Peace, at a recent Wilson Center event on the role of women in war, security, and peace.