Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Real Name said:
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/othe...sedgntp&cvid=cdbaac5d8fd0454c9f4a42bc90bc0bfd

One more crazy quote by Lavrov. Apparently the West is trying to aggravate situation by sending weapons. Imagine that, there's an attack going on an independent country and someone is aggravating that situation. Also speaking about other territories all the while still not succeeding in the whole Donbas region.

Quote about Zelensky is a little bit frightening too.
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Nothing they can say is either scary or frightening any more. They’re already doing the worst they can be doing, short of lobbing nukes. They are all in. We also know that the only language they understand is violence. So when they say long range western weapons will only make things worse in Ukraine, all I’m hearing is: “they are getting rattled, arm Ukraine even more”.

There are a few thousand ATACMS missiles of different variants in the US arsenal. They will start getting replaced by PrSM from 2024 anyway. Make sure Ukraine gets few hundred ATACMS to go with their increasing numbers of HIMARS/M270. Help them identify and bomb munition dumps, airfields and radars as deep as Crimea.

Watch Lavrov squirm even more.
 
MadMike said:
Nothing they can say is either scary or frightening any more. They’re already doing the worst they can be doing, short of lobbing nukes. They are all in. We also know that the only language they understand is violence. So when they say long range western weapons will only make things worse in Ukraine, all I’m hearing is: “they are getting rattled, arm Ukraine even more”.

There are a few thousand ATACMS missiles of different variants in the US arsenal. They will start getting replaced by PrSM from 2024 anyway. Make sure Ukraine gets few hundred ATACMS to go with their increasing numbers of HIMARS/M270. Help them identify and bomb munition dumps, airfields and radars as deep as Crimea.

Watch Lavrov squirm even more.
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Everything that these cretins are mouthing off is for the internal consumption and poor Ukrainians as they specifically engage in these informational attacks to try and break the morale of the general population. The losses (both technical and highly trained military personnel) that they have sustained will take them decades to recover in the sanctions constrained environment even if this war stopped this very second. In the west everyone understands that they have nothing left to even bluff with, it’s purely aimed at those zombies in front of their TVs in the zombieland.
 
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Rajma said:
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Do we have a way to compare with other nations? I used to read about shipments all the time, but that has declined. It can be because of generally less coverage or me paying less attention rather than declining supplies, of course.

In one way I'd expect a sort of inverted U-shape. First a few shipments, then whatever's available within different economic/defensive limits when it became more obvious both how serious the situation was and that Ukraine wouldn't just be quickly overran anyway, and then less and less as both available weaponry becomes more scarce and less political pressure due to media fatigue.
 
VorZakone said:
What's the official reason given?
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That Germany cannot give too many weapons because it will be left defenseless. And then what will happen to the German Economy if Godzilla suddenly attacks? Or UFOs? Or the Klingons? Definitely it is not a good idea to leave Germany defenseless.
 
frostbite said:
That Germany cannot give too many weapons because it will be left defenseless. And then what will happen to the German Economy if Godzilla suddenly attacks? Or UFOs? Or the Klingons? Definitely it is not a good idea to leave Germany defenseless.
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That's pure horseshit. Germany has one of the largest weapon industries in the world by a mile, so the government better not complain when those industries ought to make more money and thus pay more taxes to the State as per German laws.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
That's pure horseshit. Germany has one of the largest weapon industries in the world by a mile, so the government better not complain when those industries ought to make more money and thus pay more taxes to the State as per German laws.
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You missed the part about godzilla and klingons in their post?
 
Gehrman said:
My bet is that it's still because Germany is super reliant on Russian gas and oil.
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If the Japanese government managed to make a u-turn and finally stick the 2 fingers up to the OTT homegrown anti-nuclear uproar after Fukushima, it shouldn't be that hard for the German government to reactivate their own nuclear power plants. Better that than relying on coal (THAT is the epitome of stupid) and other foreign fossil fuels.

Those so-called Greens have betrayed the environment by supporting a return to coal rather than going for a far easier option that would reduce dependence on polutting sources of energy, especially Russian oil and gas.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
If the Japanese government managed to make a u-turn and finally stick the 2 fingers up to the OTT homegrown anti-nuclear uproar after Fukushima, it shouldn't be that hard for the German government to reactivate their own nuclear power plants. Better that than relying on coal (THAT is the epitome of stupid) and other foreign fossil fuels.

Those so-called Greens have betrayed the environment by supporting a return to coal rather than going for a far easier option that would reduce dependence on polutting sources of energy, especially Russian oil and gas.
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There's a lot of discussion in Germany wether and under which circumstances it would be possible to prolong the runtime of the still workable nuclear power plants. Narrative so far has been mostly that it isn't technically possible on a whim, but recently read a report that the hurdles are mostly political, not technical. I'm of course no expert, so don't know what's true and what isn't, but it's being discussed at least.

One thing people forget with nuclear power plants though is that they don't solve Germany's gas reliance problem. It helps with power production of course, but there are many many households with gas heating, so a nuclear power plant won't heat those. On top of that, chemical industry is the second biggest branch in Germany, and BASF, the big player here, needs gas as an educt for their products, so that as well can't be easily replaced
 
hellhunter said:
There's a lot of discussion in Germany wether and under which circumstances it would be possible to prolong the runtime of the still workable nuclear power plants. Narrative so far has been mostly that it isn't technically possible on a whim, but recently read a report that the hurdles are mostly political, not technical. I'm of course no expert, so don't know what's true and what isn't, but it's being discussed at least.

One thing people forget with nuclear power plants though is that they don't solve Germany's gas reliance problem. It helps with power production of course, but there are many many households with gas heating, so a nuclear power plant won't heat those. On top of that, chemical industry is the second biggest branch in Germany, and BASF, the big player here, needs gas as an educt for their products, so that as well can't be easily replaced
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Germany does not get 100% of their gas from Russia, so they do not have to replace ALL gas. I know this is obvious, but I have seen various comments here and elsewhere that seem to imply that Germany needs to turn off all gas everywhere, which is not true.

Germany and other countries also use gas for electricity production, and that part should definitely be replaced with sources that do not cause global warming, and nuclear reactors can help. France has an extensive program of nuclear energy production and can export energy to Germany.

Actually all these problems are solvable, but the solutions cost money and Germany prefers to save money, even if that means that they are the greatest financers of the Russian war machine. They simply don't care *enough* about what happens to others, well it's a pity that Ukrainians die but someone else should do something about it...
 
https://www.republicworld.com/world...t-give-more-weapons-amid-war-articleshow.html



"We can’t give away much more from the Bundeswehr, I'll say that very clearly, and my colleague is aware of that,” the German minister was quoted as saying by Russia-based RT News.

....


However, earlier last month, Defense Minister Lambrecht made it clear that Berlin would keep supporting Ukraine "with everything possible" but not at the expense of its own defense capabilities.

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Elaborating Germany's efforts to help Ukraine, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has confirmed that Berlin will continue to support Ukraine under the “circular exchange” principle. According to the scheme, Eastern European countries donate their Soviet-era military inventory to Ukraine and in turn receive more modern systems from Germany.


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You get the idea... Other countries give Ukraine their Soviet era weapons and Germany gives (sells???) modern weapons to these other countries. Win-Win! But Germany does not give modern weapons directly to Ukraine, because .... it may weaken its own army. Which does absolutely nothing and will do absolutely nothing in the future, except if Cylons attack Earth. Maybe.
 
MadMike said:
Nothing they can say is either scary or frightening any more. They’re already doing the worst they can be doing, short of lobbing nukes. They are all in. We also know that the only language they understand is violence. So when they say long range western weapons will only make things worse in Ukraine, all I’m hearing is: “they are getting rattled, arm Ukraine even more”.

There are a few thousand ATACMS missiles of different variants in the US arsenal. They will start getting replaced by PrSM from 2024 anyway. Make sure Ukraine gets few hundred ATACMS to go with their increasing numbers of HIMARS/M270. Help them identify and bomb munition dumps, airfields and radars as deep as Crimea.

Watch Lavrov squirm even more.
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Agreed, it's a bit short to the stuff that crazy mobster Kadirov is saying, apparently Poland is next, after they deal with Ukraine and by the looks of it, it wont be soon or ever. It would be such a shame if something would happen to that guy. He just barks nonsense far from the frontline all the while acting he's in the peak of it.
 
frostbite said:
Germany does not get 100% of their gas from Russia, so they do not have to replace ALL gas. I know this is obvious, but I have seen various comments here and elsewhere that seem to imply that Germany needs to turn off all gas everywhere, which is not true.

Germany and other countries also use gas for electricity production, and that part should definitely be replaced with sources that do not cause global warming, and nuclear reactors can help. France has an extensive program of nuclear energy production and can export energy to Germany.

Actually all these problems are solvable, but the solutions cost money and Germany prefers to save money, even if that means that they are the greatest financers of the Russian war machine. They simply don't care *enough* about what happens to others, well it's a pity that Ukrainians die but someone else should do something about it...
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NotThatSoph said:
I know, I've posted this before so he knows he's lying. It's just that sometimes this stuff will shut him up for a few days, which is nice. Sometimes it backfires, though, like when I brought up Yemen and a quick Google search turned him into a Saudi Arabia supporter. This war also turned him against the Palestinians, great stuff.
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I haven't seen this list before. Can you link the source?

From that list, we know about China, UK has been helping Ukraine a lot since February, and I consider Germany and Netherlands the same thing. It is just a waste of time to type "Germany and Netherlands" (and France and Italy) all the time. After all, Netherlands has about one fifth of the German population and their political clout in the EU is about that percentage, too. That's why I don't really care much about Netherlands. Germany, France and Italy are the big guns in EU, and all three have done very little to help Ukraine, compared to their wealth.

Please stop with the German apologists, it is boring. Germany has been doing too little to help Ukraine. They should be doing more. There are no excuses any more. There is no reason that America should be the main power helping Ukraine, the EU is quite rich, they should be doing much more and Germany should be the leader in that because it is the richest country in Europe.
 
frostbite said:
I haven't seen this list before. Can you link the source?

From that list, we know about China, UK has been helping Ukraine a lot since February, and I consider Germany and Netherlands the same thing. It is just a waste of time to type "Germany and Netherlands" (and France and Italy) all the time. After all, Netherlands has about one fifth of the German population and their political clout in the EU is about that percentage, too. That's why I don't really care much about Netherlands. Germany, France and Italy are the big guns in EU, and all three have done very little to help Ukraine, compared to their wealth.

Please stop with the German apologists, it is boring. Germany has been doing too little to help Ukraine. They should be doing more. There are no excuses any more. There is no reason that America should be the main power helping Ukraine, the EU is quite rich, they should be doing much more and Germany should be the leader in that because it is the richest country in Europe.
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:lol:
 
And let me add that, in my opinion, Putin is an autocrat who came to power with popular vote and he really reminds me of Hitler. This is one of the reasons that I'd expect Germans to be extra sensitive about this war and become the LEADERS in helping Ukraine beat Russia. The leaders! Not Netherlands, not Italy, not France, not UK, not USA. Germany should be the leaders in this, exactly because of their history.
 
frostbite said:
I haven't seen this list before. Can you link the source?

From that list, we know about China, UK has been helping Ukraine a lot since February, and I consider Germany and Netherlands the same thing. It is just a waste of time to type "Germany and Netherlands" (and France and Italy) all the time. After all, Netherlands has about one fifth of the German population and their political clout in the EU is about that percentage, too. That's why I don't really care much about Netherlands. Germany, France and Italy are the big guns in EU, and all three have done very little to help Ukraine, compared to their wealth.

Please stop with the German apologists, it is boring. Germany has been doing too little to help Ukraine. They should be doing more. There are no excuses any more. There is no reason that America should be the main power helping Ukraine, the EU is quite rich, they should be doing much more and Germany should be the leader in that because it is the richest country in Europe.
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You're my favorite poster, this is great.

COMTRADE.

Also, unless you forgot (I told you this when I told you what you've apparently never seen before), you Greeks are one of the biggest funders of Russia per capita.
 
NotThatSoph said:
You're my favorite poster, this is great.

COMTRADE.

Also, unless you forgot (I told you this when I told you what you've apparently never seen before), you Greeks are one of the biggest funders of Russia per capita.
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But who gives a fart about Greece? Greece has zero military production, they only buy stuff.

Germany is in leadership position. EU looks up to Germany, not to Greece.

I want Germany to be the FIRST to give heavy weapons to Ukraine. I want Germany to press Netherlands and France to do more to help Ukraine. I want to hear Scholz complain that Biden is doing too little.
 
frostbite said:
But who gives a fart about Greece? Greece has zero military production, they only buy stuff.

Germany is in leadership position. EU looks up to Germany, not to Greece.

I want Germany to be the FIRST to give heavy weapons to Ukraine. I want Germany to press Netherlands and France to do more to help Ukraine. I want to hear Scholz complain that Biden is doing too little.
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Well if Greece buys stuff from Russia isnt it that they fund Russian war machine?
 
Apart from the UK (surprisingly), the entire western and southern Europe has been a disgrace in handling it, it's unfair to single out specific countries. The only vocal countries have been the ones which never believed that Russia has changed and always saw their true face. Unfortunately none of those countries have a strong voice in Europe because it's being led by spineless sellouts.
 
Real Name said:
Well Dutch language does sound a bit like broken German to be far, so there's that.
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For southern europeans, Germany and Netherlands have the same political positions in the EU, for almost all aspects that affect southern europe.

It is really hard to imagine that Germany gives a lot of heavy weapons to Ukraine and then Netherlands do nothing to help. Germany would make sure that Netherlands would contribute their fair share. So, Germany is the key, the Netherlands are secondary.
 
Real Name said:
Well if Greece buys stuff from Russia isnt it that they fund Russian war machine?
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Yes, if it is true. I don't really believe that Greece is buying per capita more stuff from Russia than anyone else, do you have any numbers with links? Both per capita and the absolute numbers.
 
German apologists en masse. It is sad. If you really care about Germany's honor, you should be the first to demand that Germany takes a leadership position in this war. It is the first major war in Europe after WW2 and Germany can be the leader of the good guys!
 
frostbite said:
Yes, if it is true. I don't really believe that Greece is buying per capita more stuff from Russia than anyone else, do you have any numbers with links? Both per capita and the absolute numbers.
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Again, I've shown you this before. Source is still COMTRADE.

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