This has nothing to do with her. It has everything to do with a authoritarian state installing a puppet leader as head of the United States. Not only should all Americans be outraged, but so should anyone who lives in a Democratic country as if they can do it in the States, they can do it anywhere.
Russia's at it again
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
This has nothing to do with her. It has everything to do with a authoritarian state installing a puppet leader as head of the United States. Not only should all Americans be outraged, but so should anyone who lives in a Democratic country as if they can do it in the States, they can do it anywhere.
You know what's funny Raoul. From inside your echo chamber you don't realise how stupid this looks for a person who doesn't give a sh*t about the US (or your personal?) obsession with Russia.So in the space of two years, Russia has turned from...
Obama dismisses Russia as ‘regional power’ acting out of weakness
to the biggest super power in the world that is now installing leaders everywhere in the world including the US?
Wtf.And all of that because of an "army of trolls" in twitter and youtube? Are you serious? You fecking own all the media in pretty much the whole world! And you're complaining about trolls on youtube? And we're supposed to be talking about the biggest and most powerful country in the world? Believe me Raoul, Putin doesn't need any army of trolls, honestly the ones on your side are doing the job for him.
As for the hacks, instead of theorising about "who hacked into Clinton's mails?" (which could be Russia), if you really care about "democracy" so much why don't you ask instead: "Why did my 'democratic' party give the middle finger to 'democracy' and rigged their elections to nominate a corrupt candidate"? Why didn't you ask: "Why the hell is the undemocratic candidate of my 'democratic' party taking money secretly from the biggest dictatorship and sponsor of terrorism in the world?" or "Why are our news channels rigging the presidential debates?"... No, these are all not important in your eyes, all you care about is "Who the hell hacked into Clinton's email and sh*t on my Clinton win party?!". That's all you see, and that's all you care about.
Guess what Raoul, just like some women didn't care who leaked the Trump tape, some people don't care about who leaked the emails, or about your Clinton party. They just care about how their country is run, and Clinton and the democratic party did do some really bad things. Putin doesn't have a "magic stick". It's your politicians who are doing terrible things, and are violating the very same principles they pretend to defend. So instead of shutting all the news channels with opposing views, and killing all the whistle blowers, if you really want to improve your country you should ask your politicians to be less corrupt, more honest, and stick to the "freedom and democracy" you brag about. Right now you're acting exactly like a typical propaganda machine of a middle Eastern dictator.
Besides, when the Trump tape was leaked, I don't recall you questioning the "source and the motive" of the leak. It was all great and funny.
And when the IAAF documents were leaked accusing Russian athletes of doping, nobody questioned the timing, the source or the motive, and this was being said at the time...
And when the Panama leaks came out, same things were said...
If you're too biased to see the irony, then not all people are as biased as you.Countries reactions:
UK - we asked the journalists for the documents to review them
France - we started an investigation based on this report
Russia - it's a conspiracy against Russia and it's President to shift the attention from our success in Syria
Fecking hell
Oh, and you can make your echo chamber louder by labelling everybody who disagrees with you "idiot" or "Putin agent", but it will only make your echo chamber smaller, and smaller, to the point where you now have Trump as president.
So in the space of two years, Russia has turned from...
Obama dismisses Russia as ‘regional power’ acting out of weakness
to the biggest super power in the world that is now installing leaders everywhere in the world including the US?
And all of that because of an "army of trolls" in twitter and youtube? Are you serious? You fecking own all the media in pretty much the whole world! And you're complaining about trolls on youtube? And we're supposed to be talking about the biggest and most powerful country in the world? Believe me Raoul, Putin doesn't need any army of trolls, honestly the ones on your side are doing the job for him.
As for the hacks, instead of theorising about "who hacked into Clinton's mails?" (which could be Russia), if you really care about "democracy" so much why don't you ask instead: "Why did my 'democratic' party give the middle finger to 'democracy' and rigged their elections to nominate a corrupt candidate"? Why didn't you ask: "Why the hell is the undemocratic candidate of my 'democratic' party taking money secretly from the biggest dictatorship and sponsor of terrorism in the world?" or "Why are our news channels rigging the presidential debates?"... No, these are all not important in your eyes, all you care about is "Who the hell hacked into Clinton's email and sh*t on my Clinton win party?!". That's all you see, and that's all you care about.
Guess what Raoul, just like some women didn't care who leaked the Trump tape, some people don't care about who leaked the emails, or about your Clinton party. They just care about how their country is run, and Clinton and the democratic party did do some really bad things. Putin doesn't have a "magic stick". It's your politicians who are doing terrible things, and are violating the very same principles they pretend to defend. So instead of shutting all the news channels with opposing views, and killing all the whistle blowers, if you really want to improve your country you should ask your politicians to be less corrupt, more honest, and stick to the "freedom and democracy" you brag about. Right now you're acting exactly like a typical propaganda machine of a middle Eastern dictator.
Besides, when the Trump tape was leaked, I don't recall you questioning the "source and the motive" of the leak. It was all great and funny.
And when the IAAF documents were leaked accusing Russian athletes of doping, nobody questioned the timing, the source or the motive, and this was being said at the time...
And when the Panama leaks came out, same things were said...
If you're too biased to see the irony, then not all people are as biased as you.
Oh, and you can make your echo chamber louder by labelling everybody who disagrees with you "idiot" or "Putin agent", but it will only make your echo chamber smaller, and smaller, to the point where you now have Trump as president.
Obama was correct in traditional power terms. They are economically weak (GDP the size of Italy), authoritarian, and desperate to obfuscate Putin's corruption by undercutting foreign Democracy to make sure it never challenges his reign, and in the process allows him to expand his authoritarianism outwards.
And here's your weekly reminder that the Democratic primary wasn't rigged.
Is there actual proof that Russia was even involved in leaking the information about Clinton's corruption?
It seems the cia and fbi are disagreeing about Russia's involvement.
I have to add that the 'Fake News' narrative and how insanely hard it's been pushed is one of the single oddest moves I've seen in political spin language for many years.
I dunno, it's all very sad to watch in this day and age. USA should be a great country, leading the way, and instead it feels like this election and the mood it's captured is totally regressive.
As an aside, it feels like there's a sense of paranoia being generated from the Clinton/cia camp, it feels like they're scrambling to dominate the narrative rather than to actually get to the bottom of something.
It seems the cia and fbi are disagreeing about Russia's involvement.
I have to add that the 'Fake News' narrative and how insanely hard it's been pushed is one of the single oddest moves I've seen in political spin language for many years.
I dunno, it's all very sad to watch in this day and age. USA should be a great country, leading the way, and instead it feels like this election and the mood it's captured is totally regressive.
As an aside, it feels like there's a sense of paranoia being generated from the Clinton/cia camp, it feels like they're scrambling to dominate the narrative rather than to actually get to the bottom of something.
The CIA and FBI aren't disagreeing about Russia's involvement, they are disagreeing about whether or not Russia specifically did it to promote Trump.
Watch this space. If evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Putin's Russia emerges, this thing will explode to an entirely new level.
Oh I know, no doubt.
The thing that concerns me, is that so many times before when these big power moves are made involving messy politics, cia involvement and hurried thought memes ('Fake News', 'WMD', 'Axis of evil') it often turns out that the public gets played and deceived, and the whole world ends up in a worse place for it.
I don't trust the established political powers in DC, I think the leaks show that Clinton should be answering questions rather than asking them - and in all honesty, I think she's a crook, and is surrounded by crooks.
I also wanted her to win the election at the time, so I'm really not a Trump fan, indeed I'm English and I'm more left than right.
The notion that the Democrats and cia can claim, in a rushed, and seemingly desperate manner that 'Russia installed a puppet government, and that's why we lost', while not even acknowledging the content of the leaks, and then have the whole thing overturned is scary - because it says to the American public, "you can't get rid of us".
It has a feeling of them not just having the ref in their pocket (MSM) but also literally moving the goal posts in order to retroactively disallow goals scored against them.
I feel sympathy for all Americans right now, whatever their political leaning, because this all has a very dark and shady feel to it, and I honestly think all Americans just want to move forward from these types of scandals and bizarre power moves.
You might disagree with my points, and that's fair enough, I'm not an American, but I assure you that lots of the people who are changing their minds about Hillary and the MSM narrative are doing so because they want what's best for America, and from the outside looking in, I think she should be addressing the content of the leaks, while the President-Elect Trump is building bridges and preparing his government.
What's happening now isn't good for America, it's only good for Clinton and anyone else who wants to avoid answering, or even acknowledging the content of those leaks.
I see how the american reporting echoes in the country where I reside. In the cases where they have jumped the gun and published bullshit without a critical review like the propornot report, and subsequently had to retract their story, the story still remains unedited in media here.
Like the Comey letter, you mean?
No, not like the Comey letter. The aftermath of that received a lot of coverage.
Truth is that america is probably more influential than any other country how we view the world here in Sweden. This is also why I remain a healthy dose of skepticism.
If I had this power over other countries I would probably use it.
The bigger irony is you not recognizing your own echo chamber.
So in the space of two years, Russia has turned from...
Obama dismisses Russia as ‘regional power’ acting out of weakness
to the biggest super power in the world that is now installing leaders everywhere in the world including the US?
And all of that because of an "army of trolls" in twitter and youtube? Are you serious? You fecking own all the media in pretty much the whole world! And you're complaining about trolls on youtube? And we're supposed to be talking about the biggest and most powerful country in the world? Believe me Raoul, Putin doesn't need any army of trolls, honestly the ones on your side are doing the job for him.
As for the hacks, instead of theorising about "who hacked into Clinton's mails?" (which could be Russia), if you really care about "democracy" so much why don't you ask instead: "Why did my 'democratic' party give the middle finger to 'democracy' and rigged their elections to nominate a corrupt candidate"? Why didn't you ask: "Why the hell is the undemocratic candidate of my 'democratic' party taking money secretly from the biggest dictatorship and sponsor of terrorism in the world?" or "Why are our news channels rigging the presidential debates?"... No, these are all not important in your eyes, all you care about is "Who the hell hacked into Clinton's email and sh*t on my Clinton win party?!". That's all you see, and that's all you care about.
Guess what Raoul, just like some women didn't care who leaked the Trump tape, some people don't care about who leaked the emails, or about your Clinton party. They just care about how their country is run, and Clinton and the democratic party did do some really bad things. Putin doesn't have a "magic stick". It's your politicians who are doing terrible things, and are violating the very same principles they pretend to defend. So instead of shutting all the news channels with opposing views, and killing all the whistle blowers, if you really want to improve your country you should ask your politicians to be less corrupt, more honest, and stick to the "freedom and democracy" you brag about. Right now you're acting exactly like a typical propaganda machine of a middle Eastern dictator.
Besides, when the Trump tape was leaked, I don't recall you questioning the "source and the motive" of the leak. It was all great and funny.
And when the IAAF documents were leaked accusing Russian athletes of doping, nobody questioned the timing, the source or the motive, and this was being said at the time...
And when the Panama leaks came out, same things were said...
If you're too biased to see the irony, then not all people are as biased as you.
Oh, and you can make your echo chamber louder by labelling everybody who disagrees with you "idiot" or "Putin agent", but it will only make your echo chamber smaller, and smaller, to the point where you now have Trump as president.
Isn't that a bit over the top ?
Might not be. If the rumours that the RNC was hacked too and the Russians have compromising info on them then they'll hold significant sway over the Trump administration. Direct 'puppet' may not be accurate but Trump is so moronic and lacks awareness to the point where Putin will manipulate him with consummate ease.
Not at all. They have interfered in at least 11 elections in recent years to install Russia friendly puppet politicians.
The tit for tat.
I also noticed a strongly worded piece in the Washington Post about Chinese expansionism threatening the United States. They were talking about the South China Sea. I had to laugh.
Well, when the whole world is your own backyard...
This especially true during the age of twitter where anyone can become some sort of credible journalist, all it takes is thousands of fake accounts to follow them and they become 'credible'. The Russians have been very good at this and it's especially having a great effect in a climate where the average person has a distrust for MSM so turn to 'independent' news. Anywhere you go if there is some sort of anti Russian sentiment on any open online forum the comments get spammed almost instantly by Russian bots. Propaganda done extremely well, fair play to them.
Is there proof of this? Couldn't you just say that about any school of thought that disagreed with your own?
I barely see any pro-Russia media anywhere and I try to look at a range of news outlets from MSM to indie-news.
All I ever see about Russia is them going to the edges of no-fly zones, and censoring music/protest and being homophobic and generally regressive with social issues.
I never saw any conspiracy theory that, for example, the disgusting Russian hooligans during the Euros were actually US actors giving Russia a bad name - which is the type of thing you'd expect to read if they controlled areas of Western media. I never saw any comments on any news site trying to excuse that behaviour.
That's just off the top of my head, but you get what I mean.
Doesn't it seem odd that the moment Clinton and large areas of the powerful DC inner circle have been quite clearly embarrassingly compromised, and would appear to have questions to answer to their own nation, is the exact moment that phrases like 'the Russians' (rather than just 'Russia') and 'fake news' start getting churned out at an incredible rate?
I barely see any pro-Russia media anywhere and I try to look at a range of news outlets from MSM to indie-news.
All I ever see about Russia is them going to the edges of no-fly zones, and censoring music/protest and being homophobic and generally regressive with social issues.
I never saw any conspiracy theory that, for example, the disgusting Russian hooligans during the Euros were actually US actors giving Russia a bad name - which is the type of thing you'd expect to read if they controlled areas of Western media. I never saw any comments on any news site trying to excuse that behaviour.
That's just off the top of my head, but you get what I mean.
Doesn't it seem odd that the moment Clinton and large areas of the powerful DC inner circle have been quite clearly embarrassingly compromised, and would appear to have questions to answer to their own nation, is the exact moment that phrases like 'the Russians' (rather than just 'Russia') and 'fake news' start getting churned out at an incredible rate?
Basically, while the west was wasting a billion dollars a day fecking around with conventional warfare in the ME, Russia improved its technological capabilities such that they have the equipment, infrastructure and expertise to completely dominate us in the cyber era.
I reckon there's little chance Russia has better capabilities on this front than the US, they're just far more willing to brazenly use them.
The US has a much stronger cyber capability than all other nations combined. Its whether or not its used that is in question. Russia has almost no economic power, their military power is neutralized by the cost and ramifications of war, and so their only card remaining is to use their hackers to influence foreign publics to install Russia friendly politicians. Putin has and would of course use military power when he thinks he can get away with it, but the plunge in the oil price over the past couple of years has made that a more costly proposition.
That's a fair point but I'd say it's definitely not being used to its full capability, not even close. They have great analytics but Russia is very clearly dominating the cyber game at the moment.
They are definitely using their cyber capability because its their only means of projecting power at the moment. In a nutshell, they are using cyber out of weakness not strength and if Obama chooses to retaliate, he could literally send them back into the 19th century for a few days and there's nothing they can do to stop it.
That's a nice interpretation, hope it makes the US feel better because from the outside looking in you lot are losing your collective shit about this. Russia is trouncing the US in the only realm that currently matters.
I have to admit, there is a great deal of irony in seeing the identity crisis of having your sovereign democratic election manipulated by a foreign power play out in the homeland of manipulating foreign elections. I have no doubt the CIA are correct in their assessment - They would know better than anyone how it's done.
I wouldn't exactly place hacking gmail accounts and covertly handing their loot to Wikileaks as a dominant cyber strategy. It has caused embarrassment in the US and probably cost Hillary a good number of votes, but the capability itself isn't particularly sophisticated and its not as if the Russians have some sort of unique technology that everyone else doesn't have. The fact that they are using it out of weakness because they have no economic cards to play is itself a testament to their desperation.
The probably are since Russia is their portfolio, as opposed to the FBI who specialize in domestic matters.
I would agree. It would be like Russia using nukes and then making the claim that Russia is trouncing everyone at nuclear war. Well yes, that's only because others would be choosing not to use their own nukes.
The position of the FBI in this is curious too. They were happy to announce the Weiner email find little more than a week before the election, despite having not looked into them and nothing being found when they did, and it looks pretty certain this changed the outcome of the election. Yet they were unwilling to make any statement on the Russian hacking.
oh man, that's rich. Seriously, it's not just the attacks on official bodies that I'm counting here. It's also the cyber crime that attacks the US economy by impacting people and businesses. They know how to use the technology very well and appear to have invested a great deal in having dedicated and indoctrinated people doing the work. I know its uncomfortable admission but you guys are trailing in this area and it's the future, as well as the present. You have big problems.
I agree the Russians are going to be a problem in the cyber area if they ever graduate to getting past hacking gmail accounts. They are already working on ways to bring down the stock market and if that happens we should all be concerned. Fortunately that's not likely since Putin now has his own puppet in Washington.
China is doing the same thing... not impacting elections, but hacking everyone and every thing.. On a larger scale than Russia..
I'm sure America is doing it too..
It's being covered by the media now, but countries hacking each other isnt new
I'm sure America is doing it too..
It's being covered by the media now, but countries hacking each other isnt new
Yes. See? Trump's victory was a good thing. We can get back to cooperating with Russia.
In fairness, you'd think the DNC and government agencies would be better at educating their employees about cyber security. Gmail accounts get hacked because people are stupid and careless.
I find it hard to believe that Russia has more cyber-capability than the US. For some reason we don't hear a lot about what the US is capable of in terms of cyber warfare but you can bet they are fecking good at it if they feel it's necessary.
Russia has projected their ability better. The US has thousands of NSA analysts who are busy navel gazing at the online activity of their own citizenry. They also decided it was a better choice to burn a billion dollars a day for a few years in Iraq and as a result have fallen behind where it matters. Short sighted policy, I guess.
Yes, they are doing well at this, too. But there seems to be less maliciousness to their game, it is all about the economy with China.
Podesta in this case wasn't part of either the DNC or a government agency. He's probably just one of millions of aloof middle aged people who barely understand technology, who found it more convenient to keep his default pw than actually change it, never mind change it to something complex, never mind use two authentications.