Russia's at it again

2:00 in....

Apparently Putin is after Boris Karpichkov, Christopher Steele, and Bill Browder....

 
Still a weak hit though, no? Why not just use a bit more?

According to the video above, a pin head worth of the Novichik is supposed to be fatal, so I'm guessing the delivery mechanism didn't work properly. It was allegedly administered at his house before they went to the pub and lunch, so if it was done properly they would've died immediately.
 
I wonder if the person(s) who botched it have been, erm, “retired” from service.
 
Are you suggesting the Russian government didn't attempt to murder the father and daughter ?

I'm suggesting you shouldn't go around stating as a fact something that hasn't been proven, especially concerning a very serious matter, such as a murder attempt. You can't just accuse somebody without proof just because you want to. I realize American and British politicians have a habit of publicly throwing accusations they can't back up but let's not stoop to their level.
 
I'm suggesting you shouldn't go around stating as a fact something that hasn't been proven, especially concerning a very serious matter, such as a murder attempt. You can't just accuse somebody without proof just because you want to. I realize American and British politicians have a habit of publicly throwing accusations they can't back up but let's not stoop to their level.

“No proof”. Oh dear. There is certainly strong evidence.

As a matter of interest, who do you think murdered Litvinenko?

This is a fair summary of the known facts.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/long-read-does-the-uks-case-against-russia-stack-up

The fact that Russia has form, the means and motive all points to it being the guilty party. Also, Putins bunch are demonstrable liars.
 
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“No proof”. Oh dear. There is certainly strong evidence.

As a matter of interest, who do you think murdered Litvinenko?

This is a fair summary of the known facts.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/long-read-does-the-uks-case-against-russia-stack-up

The fact that Russia has form, the means and motive all points to it being the guilty party. Also, Putins bunch are demonstrable liars.

All politicians are liars, Putin is no exception. It's just a question of making it look like he's the bad guy fighting the good guys. There are no good guys in politics.

There are number of parties that could have done this and Russia/Putin are the least likely for obvious reasons. With sanctions in place, the investigation regarding suspected involvement in US elections and only a few months away from the World Cup being held in Russia maybe it's not a good idea to risk getting involved in an international scandal on top of it, with absolutely nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose in a process. Well, who cares about all that, let's just make a poorly prepared attempt at poisoning our ex-spy who we pardoned and swapped years ago and who we haven't had use for in years in the middle of England with a nerve agent that was developed, surprise, surprise, in Soviet Union and pray and hope they won't guess it was us. Wow. Things must be really bad at Russian intelligence if that's how they go about their business. How did they manage to manipulate US electorate to vote for Trump when they employ such idiots, one wonders. Just how stupid do you think Putin is? Whenever I ask for motives, I keep hearing about bad reputation, oh he's crazy lunatic, dictator, he doesn't care about consequences, etc. Not a single logical explanation as to why try to kill this guy, why use this particular nerve agent and why do it in England of all places, and why now, of all times.

Unless of course it's done to hurt Russians, there's simply no other logical explanation for that, if people try to keep their bias out of the equation. It reminds me of Assad and how every time Syrian Army with Russian air force support is making progress fighting the Al-Qaeda jihadists, I beg you pardon, I meant freedom fighters, the news of yet another suspected 'chemical attack by Assad forces on civilian population' pops up all over the western media. Must be just a coincidence.
 
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Putin isn't really trying to hide his involvement in these murders and attempted murders he is deliberately showing his hand is behind them while he tries to negate the consequences by stating publicly he had nothing to do with it. It is classic Putin and a few idiots and shills aside he pushed the tactics one step too far.

I mean you can go on making the excuse that there isn't absolute proof but the only way there could be proof is if Putin allowed his own authorities to investigate properly and that is never going to happen as we found out with Litvinenko.

While there is no perfect political system and there are no perfect politicians that does not mean the Russian President can't make a difference for the better and Putin clearly isn't doing that.

He kills journalists who uncover evidence of his corrupt practices.

He kills and imprisons his political adversaries.

He can't stop now because of the obscene amount of money he has taken from the Russian state and the blood on his hands of the people he has had murdered for personal gain.

The problem with autocracy is that the autocrat stays in power even when he is off his game and his best years are behind him. He has miscalculated the reaction and consequences of using nerve gas. How out of touch do you have to be to not realize how badly that is going to go down? It doesn't bode well for the future.
 
“No proof”. Oh dear. There is certainly strong evidence.

As a matter of interest, who do you think murdered Litvinenko?

This is a fair summary of the known facts.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/long-read-does-the-uks-case-against-russia-stack-up

The fact that Russia has form, the means and motive all points to it being the guilty party. Also, Putins bunch are demonstrable liars.

The "no proof" bit is a common Putin tactic. What he's actually saying is "please reveal your sources and methods of how you know it was me, so that our intelligence services can modulate their activity to ensure you don't catch us next time". Standard Kremlin BS that is intended to confuse basic circumstantial evidence that everyone knows to be accurate.
 
All politicians are liars, Putin is no exception. It's just a question of making it look like he's the bad guy fighting the good guys. There are no good guys in politics.

There are number of parties that could have done this and Russia/Putin are the least likely for obvious reasons. With sanctions in place, the investigation regarding suspected involvement in US elections and only a few months away from the World Cup being held in Russia maybe it's not a good idea to risk getting involved in an international scandal on top of it, with absolutely nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose in a process? Well, who cares about all that, let's just make a poorly prepared attempt at poisoning our ex-spy who we pardoned and swapped years ago and who we haven't had use for in years in the middle of England with a nerve agent that was developed, surprise, surprise, in Soviet Union and pray and hope they won't guess it was us. Wow. Things must be really bad at Russian intelligence if that's how they go about their business. How did they manage to manipulate US electorate to vote for Trump when they employ such idiots, one wonders. Just how stupid do you think Putin is? Whenever I ask for motives, I keep hearing about bad reputation, oh he's crazy lunatic, dictator, he doesn't care about consequences, etc. Not a single logical explanation as to why try to kill this guy, why use this particular nerve agent and why do it in England of all places, and why now, of all times.

Unless of course it's done to hurt Russians, there's simply no other logical explanation for that, if people try to keep their bias out of the equation. It reminds me of Assad and how every time Syrian Army with Russian air force support is making progress fighting the Al-Qaeda jihadists, I beg you pardon, I meant freedom fighters, the news of yet another suspected 'chemical attack by Assad forces on civilian population' pops up all over the western media. Must be just a coincidence.

He invaded Crimea within weeks of the Sochi Olympics.
 
He invaded Crimea within weeks of the Sochi Olympics.

That's some invasion, not a single casualty. Regardless, what happened in Crimea was a direct reaction to the coup in Kiev. And the Olympics was finished by that time, by the way.
 
That's some invasion, not a single casualty. Regardless, what happened in Crimea was a direct reaction to the coup in Kiev. And the Olympics was finished by that time, by the way.

Well at least you are now admitting it happened, rather than lying to us all that we don't have any evidence it was Putin. You're making progress pal.
 
The "no proof" bit is a common Putin tactic. What he's actually saying is "please reveal your sources and methods of how you know it was me, so that our intelligence services can modulate their activity to ensure you don't catch us next time". Standard Kremlin BS that is intended to confuse basic circumstantial evidence that everyone knows to be accurate.

I thought presumption of innocence is still relevant in the so-called civilized world or isn't it? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on the accuser, not the accused? That's a nice little scheme you got going here. We can accuse and label you a criminal but we won't show proof because that would make us reveal our sources and methods. This way you can accuse anyone of anything without caring to back it up. Why bother?
 
I didn't call it an invasion, you did.

Yeah but like a good ultranationalist, you denied just about everything about it at the time. Do you still deny Russian involvement in Donbass as well ?
 
I thought presumption of innocence is still relevant in the so-called civilized world or isn't it? Shouldn't the burden of proof be on the accuser, not the accused? That's a nice little scheme you got going here. We can accuse and label you a criminal but we won't show proof because that would make us reveal our sources and methods. This way you can accuse anyone of anything without caring to back it up. Why bother?

You would be mistaken. In the court of public opinion there is no presumption of innocence, especially when this sort of thing has happened repeatedly in recent years.
 
Chemistry Professor at Cornell University:











Wish more people from academia would be this outspoken.
 
You would be mistaken. In the court of public opinion there is no presumption of innocence, especially when this sort of thing has happened repeatedly in recent years.

I'd imagine in US foreign policies it comes and goes depending on what their goal is in each specific scenario.
 
Yeah but like a good ultranationalist, you denied just about everything about it at the time. Do you still deny Russian involvement in Donbass as well ?

So now I'm an ultranationalist. American patriots are so quick to label people they disagree with.
 
The idea of Teresa May running a Russian false flag while muck deep in the middle of Brexit is preposterous. Britain has enough on its plate.
 
The idea of Teresa May running a Russian false flag while muck deep in the middle of Brexit is preposterous. Britain has enough on its plate.

It's also very counterproductive to Brexit as well. If anything it's highlighted the extent to which unity is necessary between EU states when they find themselves in the midst of a major crisis, and while that's achievable outside the EU you'd be hard pressed to say it doesn't dent those relations at all. Of course...the counterargument to that would be that May's done this deliberately to sour the popular appeal of Brexit, but then the idea that a woman who gets flustered when asked basic questions about the economy has been able to completely run a false flag operation designed to implicitly stop - or at least sour - Brexit, under the nose of her entire party, with a pro-Brexit foreign secretary, seems incredibly silly to me, and is well into batshit conspiracy theory territory.

We can't definitively prove it's Russia, and I'm not exactly hugely trusting of the UK government on a number of things, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has an extended history of being a duck then it's probably a duck.
 
I must say that this is fishy as hell. Do not understand what Russia/Putin was going to gain here by killing him, and I just don't buy the 'it must be this special nerve gas - which no one knows what it is - because some guy 30 years ago said that Russia was making some special nerve agent', and arbitrarily deciding that it is the same nerve agent, that it comes from Russia (how can they know it) and so Russia did it.

On the other hand, Litvinenko was almost certainly killed by Russia, and it is possible that Berezovsky was killed too, so the same thing might have happened here. The only thing I don't get is why after all these years, Putin decided to kill him. Yet again, the same question might have been said for Litvinenko.
 
I must say that this is fishy as hell. Do not understand what Russia/Putin was going to gain here by killing him, and I just don't buy the 'it must be this special nerve gas - which no one knows what it is - because some guy 30 years ago said that Russia was making some special nerve agent', and arbitrarily deciding that it is the same nerve agent, that it comes from Russia (how can they know it) and so Russia did it.

On the other hand, Litvinenko was almost certainly killed by Russia, and it is possible that Berezovsky was killed too, so the same thing might have happened here. The only thing I don't get is why after all these years, Putin decided to kill him. Yet again, the same question might have been said for Litvinenko.
Russian TVs channels have material for upcoming few months to concentrate on and increase nationalistic sentiment across the country by playing a victim card again as a mean to avoid talking about actual matters in the economy (which are bad).
 
I must say that this is fishy as hell. Do not understand what Russia/Putin was going to gain here by killing him, and I just don't buy the 'it must be this special nerve gas - which no one knows what it is - because some guy 30 years ago said that Russia was making some special nerve agent', and arbitrarily deciding that it is the same nerve agent, that it comes from Russia (how can they know it) and so Russia did it.

On the other hand, Litvinenko was almost certainly killed by Russia, and it is possible that Berezovsky was killed too, so the same thing might have happened here. The only thing I don't get is why after all these years, Putin decided to kill him. Yet again, the same question might have been said for Litvinenko.

You've answered your own question. Putin has a hit list and he is systematically murdering everyone on it.

See from 11:00 to 13:40

 
Russian TVs channels have material for upcoming few months to concentrate on and increase nationalistic sentiment across the country by playing a victim card again as a mean to avoid talking about actual matters in the economy (which are bad).

I heard one commentator say that the nationalism card is the only card that Putin has these days so he plays it over and over.
 
You've answered your own question. Putin has a hit list and he is systematically murdering everyone on it.

See from 11:00 to 13:40


I don't the the motivation though, unless there is to give an example to other Russian spies.

Both that Russian scientist and that Cornell professor are saying that there is nothing complicated to make that agent, and it could be done anywhere.
 
I don't the the motivation though, unless there is to give an example to other Russian spies.

That's precisely what it is. These are retribution killings and are happening at the same time as the mysterious cases of Russian diplomats dying all over the world.

Both that Russian scientist and that Cornell professor are saying that there is nothing complicated to make that agent, and it could be done anywhere.

What would you expect a Russian scientist to say ? He is after all Russian and wouldn't want to be paid a visit by the FSB for revealing the obvious.
 
I don't the the motivation though, unless there is to give an example to other Russian spies.

Both that Russian scientist and that Cornell professor are saying that there is nothing complicated to make that agent, and it could be done anywhere.


Well then it's a shitty false flag op if they used a nerve agent that can't comprehensively be linked to Russia.
 
That's precisely what it is. These are retribution killings and are happening at the same time as the mysterious cases of Russian diplomats dying all over the world.

Yep, Occam's Razor and all that makes me believe that he was killed from Russian intelligence, just that it is a bit fishy.

What would you expect a Russian scientist to say ? He is after all Russian and wouldn't want to be paid a visit by the FSB for revealing the obvious.

What about the Cornell professor?

Seriously, this nerve agent, no one in the West has ever seen it and know what it is and how it works. It is all from a book of a Russian scientist almost 3 decades ago when he mentioned that Russians were making a powerful nerve agent. 3 decades later, and within days, UK decided that it is the same agent (which again, no one knows what it is) and that it originates from Russia. How on Earth can they know it?

Then you hear chemists saying that it isn't complicated at all, and any good chemist can make it.

Not saying that it wasn't Russians, just that I don't totally buy the justification for the nerve agent.
 
I must say that this is fishy as hell. Do not understand what Russia/Putin was going to gain here by killing him, and I just don't buy the 'it must be this special nerve gas - which no one knows what it is - because some guy 30 years ago said that Russia was making some special nerve agent', and arbitrarily deciding that it is the same nerve agent, that it comes from Russia (how can they know it) and so Russia did it.

On the other hand, Litvinenko was almost certainly killed by Russia, and it is possible that Berezovsky was killed too, so the same thing might have happened here. The only thing I don't get is why after all these years, Putin decided to kill him. Yet again, the same question might have been said for Litvinenko.
Putin is vindictive and he thrives on revenge. Short video there for you to view if you wish.


In https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-latest-video-30-pieces-silver-a8243206.html video clip, which has resurfaced after eight years, Putin says: "Traitors will kick the bucket. Trust me.

“These people betrayed their friends, their brothers in arms.

“Whatever they got in exchange for it, those 30 pieces of silver they were given, they will choke on them.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...l-latest-video-30-pieces-silver-a8243206.html