This is basically La Cosa Nostra style organized crime at a global/state level where Putin is behaving in a similar way to an organized crime figure seeking revenge on "snitches".
Russia's at it again
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This is basically La Cosa Nostra style organized crime at a global/state level where Putin is behaving in a similar way to an organized crime figure seeking revenge on "snitches".
They used Polonium on Litvinenko, presumably because they thought no-one would be able to work out what the poison was that affected him. They nearly got away with it, because it was more luck than anything that we discovered it was a radioactive substance and subsequently Polonium.
As for the Skripals, maybe the murderers thought that they would either crash the car and kill themselves and it would be put down to an accident, or die in the house and not be found for days. Either way they wouldn’t have time to summon medical help. Chances are in the above scenarios we might never have discovered the type of poison. Life has a habit of not following desired or planned paths though doesn’t it.
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When they use polonium to kill someone they want dead all we hear is how easy it is to get a hold of nuclear materials in Russia and it doesn't mean it's Putin.
When his political critic gets murdered outside the Kremlin its obviously not Putin because he wouldn't do it there, it's so obvious it is him it can't be him.
When the Ukrainian Presidential candidate who is more popular than the Russian backed candidate gets poisoned before the election it obviously not Russia its someone else or a coincidence.
When he locks up his political opponents for corruption while journalists are threatened and killed for following the money trail to Putin and his friends its just politics and all politicians do it.
Now we have, it is so easy to make nerve gas that anyone can do it even though no one else is using nerve agent to kill their enemies except Russia and the North Koreans. How come everyone believes it when the North Koreans do it but can't begin to believe it when the Russians do it?
As long as Putin doesn't admit to it there are some people who simply won't accept the reality of what has happened.
When his political critic gets murdered outside the Kremlin its obviously not Putin because he wouldn't do it there, it's so obvious it is him it can't be him.
When the Ukrainian Presidential candidate who is more popular than the Russian backed candidate gets poisoned before the election it obviously not Russia its someone else or a coincidence.
When he locks up his political opponents for corruption while journalists are threatened and killed for following the money trail to Putin and his friends its just politics and all politicians do it.
Now we have, it is so easy to make nerve gas that anyone can do it even though no one else is using nerve agent to kill their enemies except Russia and the North Koreans. How come everyone believes it when the North Koreans do it but can't begin to believe it when the Russians do it?
As long as Putin doesn't admit to it there are some people who simply won't accept the reality of what has happened.
Good point. If nothing else, this underscored that NATO still has a pulse despite the best assaults of populists.
https://news.sky.com/story/russias-...orked-on-it-scientist-tells-sky-news-11300710
Pop yer eyes over that interview...another scientist who worked on Novichok.
If they know the structure of the nerve agent they can analyse samples to confirm can’t they.
Exactly. It's completely overshadowed Brexit recently - and while that's handy for the government on one hand because it's given them a way to deflect attention away from it, it's also highlighted the difficulties in pursuing such a drastic, seismic change when you're also simultaneously having to deal with challenging, ongoing political events which aren't going to come to a halt just to help our government out.
Sorry man, but even in these troubling times, I don’t buy such a nihilist view of politics. All,politicians aren’t the same. It is not true that there are no good guys in politic, or,that all intentions and outcomes are the same. IMO your view of politics is dangerous and must be resisted. Sorry.
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They can analyse its chemical signature and see that it matches the formula for this Russian nerve agent. I expect somewhere like Porton Down has a big book of nerve agents that they can check their tests against. That bit doesnt seem very controversial. Possibly they can ID other trace elements too that nail its origin further
Well, I’m not sure that’s what they are saying. Possibly any good chemist has the skills. I doubt any good chemist has the facilities. This stuff is by all accounts extremely dangerous by itself, and it’s by products are also fantastically hazardous.
Same reason polonium was used previously. To send an unambiguous message to people who know enough about this sort of thing to clearly recognise it, and who don’t as a rule waste time on silly conspiracy theories. Let’s face it, it doesn’t matter what us ignoramuses think. The question you should be asking is what the people on Putin’s little list think.
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I don't get this either. Whatever one may think of Putin; he's diligent and methodical. With all the shit on his plate -- I don't see how he would want some more at this point and time. Logically, I see no reason to poison Skripal and his daughter, whom are quite frankly of little importance to Putin.
I also don't buy the whole 'Putin is doing this as warning shot to traitors and that he can get to you anywhere' shtick. The people who are in this line of work know full-well it's a dangerous game. Also, you could whack someone without it getting to the media. It's not as if them guys don't have back channels.
I am not saying that Putin definitely didn't do this but something doesn't add up and its clear as feck!
Eh, to an extent - he's clearly got a lot of cunning and is very intelligent, but he's also quite reckless - a lot of people close to him were surprised by his invasion of Ukraine in 2014 and in many respects despite the show of Russian strength it's served as a hindrance to them in the long-term. He's a skilled operator but we shouldn't give him mythical qualities he doesn't have.
I'm not giving him mythical qualities at all. But as far as invasion/occupation/humanitarian help in Ukraine - that was a masterstroke. Not a single Russian soldier was killed and not a shot fired. Officially of course.
Being ex KGB Col. I expect no less than diligence in playing 'The Grand Chessboard' of his own. I certainly don't expect him leave his own fingerprints essentially all over the crime scene. It's not impossible but improbable. As @Raoul said the delivery system might have failed, hence such a mess, but why use old Soviet chemical weapon? Even if it did work it - it would still come back to Russia, I mean a chemical agent would still show in toxicology?
Also, KGB were using some crazy shit decades ago. That Umbrella pin and vapour pistols that caused respiratory arrest before leaving all trace of the chemical. Why Novichok now?
Only thing I can think of is a big feck you to Britain and the West. Though, thats also unlikely. It's just same old Sabre-rattling.
Not really - it was effective for drumming up nationalist rhetoric, but it's basically alienated the rest of Ukraine unanimously against Russia when there was a lot of pro-Russian rhetoric beforehand, resulted in economic sanctions which damaged the Russian economy, and basically sent a warning message to other Baltic states who may have been more keen when it came to allying with Putin but who quickly realised what that meant.
Again, he's very capable and cunning, but he isn't infallible, and he's made some major mistakes due to his hardline positions. As for incompetence in the crime - read up on the Litvinenko case.
Where was that? Eastern Ukraine were and are pro-Russian as well as Crimea.
Certainly, other parts of Ukraine that might have been on the fence -- who then went with Euromaidan movement. As drumming for drumming up a nationalist movement in Russia; you're 100% correct but it didnt need Ukraine situation to do that. Russians have overwhelming support for Putin and if they don't support Putin they're more-less lynched figuratively speaking.
Yes, that's my point. I'd imagine most pro-Russian figures in Ukraine aren't really taken seriously at all now at a national level, whereas before there was obviously a lot more sympathy there.
I would be very surprised if there are any pro Russians left. Ukrainian Russian relationship is at it's lowest point imo, politically speaking. What keeps the normal people together is blood. Ffs my grand mother is ethnic Ukrainian.
Why would Russia use a chemical that only they, apparently, produce?
Russia is literally a mafia state.
Everyone got rich in the wake of the Soviet collapse through organised crime.
Because they know there won't be any repercussions?
They could try and hide what they do but everyone is aware of it and nobody will do anything about it so why bother?
Best thing we could do regardless is freeze Russian assets in the UK, under the guise that they're a hostile force by default and there's enough evidence out there to suggest Putin is manipulating and orchestrating everything.
Go after the illicit money they've got stashed away here and the oligarchs will start getting shouty which damages Putin's control over everyone and everything, not to mention makes himself less rich too. That's how you hurt him.
We just need to grow some balls and do it.
Because they wanted their signature on it. They were sending a message to all the agents who are currently working against them to keep their mouth shut and watch their back and they were sending a message to anyone who was thinking of becoming a double agent to think again.
Really? Did my family get rich of organised crime? Must have missed that!
Bit like the George Foreman Grill
Precisely. Putin is sending a strong message that no one will be immune from his tentacles if they choose to double cross the mafia state. Also, the recent spate of dead diplomats suggests he is eliminating his own foreign ministry people when he believes they have been approached to become double agents on behalf of the US or UK.
I suppose I should've framed that as 'everyone that IS rich, got rich from organised crime'
Because they're stupid, apparently.
But there are repercussions, aren't there? This is fast becoming a huge international scandal, with hundreds of diplomats being expelled from both sides, and this is just the beginning.
It's amazing how little logic and rationality people use when they really want to believe something. This is not a James Bond movie pal, it's real life. Have you even followed the story? Skripal was an ex-agent, he represented no danger to Russia whatsoever, he was imprisoned, pardoned and exchanged for Russian spies Britain had at the time. There was literally no value whatsoever in whatever he knew from his intelligence work, he was debriefed from top to bottom by both sides and lived openly in the UK for years, his daughter came to visit him, ffs.
Perhaps in Europe diplomats are being expelled but they're merely being replaced in the US because Putin has the White House under lock and key.
Besides, expelling diplomats is paying lip service to a bad event.
It's absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. If anybody was serious about teaching Russia a lesson and making it known that they can't just carry on killing people with impunity, we'd be freezing assets and chasing the money to hurt Putin the most but nobody will do that so nothing will happen.
Well, it's one of many steps to come in a disinformation campaign instigated from across the pond, it's been going on for years. Before you know it, the western public would be brainwashed and manipulated to such degree that they'll readily believe that Russia is just a bigger and scarier version of North Korea with a madman in charge so they'd be willing to accept any nonsense that their governments tell them. I lived in New York before and after 9/11 and vividly remember the public mood at the time. The atmosphere of fear, anger and hysteria was used to start war in Iraq and people by and large went along with it because they were led to believe it was the right thing to do, the only thing to do. This is more of the same. Obviously, Putin is no Saddam and Russia is no Iraq and you can't beat them in a war, so they're using different methods, but the goal is the same, create an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty to brainwash people and manipulate public opinion and use it against a certain enemy, in this case, Russia.
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'Splashing it around' was the memorable phrase for me when I read about it. I think the key point is they don't need to be particularly careful about not being caught when they genuinely don't believe we can or will do anything about it that's worth caring about. The actions of the Russian government over the last decade or so have spelled out one very obvious message: they've decided we're weak. Look at Syria. They're running an opposing war right next to the Americans, often in the same airspace and there's been no consequences. They annexed Crimea. NATO did nothing other than sanctions which to Putin and his super rich mates is the epitome of 'meh'.
Here is one Putin poisoned earlier.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...enko-ukraine-s-ex-president-on-being-poisoned
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...enko-ukraine-s-ex-president-on-being-poisoned
Nah Putin wouldn't be so obvious. He was poisoned by Aliens.
There is 1 common factor in all these poisonings of Russians.... all of the victims oppose Putin in some way.
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Did he leave a note "It was me, Putin"?
There are millions of people in Russia alone that oppose Putin. There are TV channels and radio stations that criticize him all day every day. Should they all line up for inevitable poisoning?
Spot on. Defected spies, spies that have been released through spy exchange programs, and Russian diplomats who have been approached to flip into CIA informants, are the top candidates for this assassination hit list. Bill Browder and Christopher Steele are obviously also viable candidates for revealing corruption and Trump activities.
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Don’t let his face fillers and eye lifts lull you into a false sense of security.
It really isn’t as round and baby soft as it looks. Underneath it’s drawn and lined with prominent eyeballs.
Finally some official clarity on what may have actually happened here.
On another note, Lavrov has to be one of the longest-serving foreign ministers in history.
I've been seeing him on CNN since I was a kid.
I've been seeing him on CNN since I was a kid.
It helps when your boss is dictator for life and instructs you to stick around.
Indeed, he's already outlasted Molotov, who had two stints as Soviet Foreign Minister (1939-49 & 1953-56). He's nowhere near Gromyko, though - Foreign Minister from Feb. 1957 to July 1985!
That's the most miserable man I've ever seen.
A very irritating and annoying man. Puerile to boot. Not once does he consider that it might, just might have been a Russian hit. (The phrase “shut up and go away” springs to mind every time I see his face).