Russia's at it again

Just that Putin seems to have a fair few (22) that he wanted extraditing to Russia from UK but I never hear of any UK nationals that we are trying to get extradited from Russia.

Course it might not be 22 now because we refused their extradition so he started popping them off instead.
 
There are millions of people in Russia alone that oppose Putin. There are TV channels and radio stations that criticize him all day every day. Should they all line up for inevitable poisoning?

:lol:

"I'm not guilty look at all the people I wanted to kill but didn't," says Fred West.
 
What are the theories on who exactly has tried to frame the Russians here?
 
It helps when your boss is dictator for life and instructs you to stick around.

You forgot to add that he's two hundred years old and drinks the blood of slain newborns to prolong his evil existence.
 
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What are the theories on who exactly has tried to frame the Russians here?

What theories? The guilty party was appointed before the actual crime was committed.

But seriously, there could be a number of possibilities. My guess is, it has something to do with the competition over the European energy market and Americans trying to squeeze Russians out and take over by any means necessary. I'd imagine there'll be more scandals associated with Russia in the next few years with the White House and their loyal allies in the UK and a few other places demanding Europe cut the economical and political ties with Russia even further.

Here's more about it.

https://www.ft.com/content/352f4cac-6c7a-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0
 
Well, it's one of many steps to come in a disinformation campaign instigated from across the pond, it's been going on for years. Before you know it, the western public would be brainwashed and manipulated to such degree that they'll readily believe that Russia is just a bigger and scarier version of North Korea with a madman in charge so they'd be willing to accept any nonsense that their governments tell them. I lived in New York before and after 9/11 and vividly remember the public mood at the time. The atmosphere of fear, anger and hysteria was used to start war in Iraq and people by and large went along with it because they were led to believe it was the right thing to do, the only thing to do. This is more of the same. Obviously, Putin is no Saddam and Russia is no Iraq and you can't beat them in a war, so they're using different methods, but the goal is the same, create an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty to brainwash people and manipulate public opinion and use it against a certain enemy, in this case, Russia.

Was the invasion of Crimea Western disinformation?
Was the invasion of Ukraine Western disinformation?
Was the assassination of Litvinenko Western disinformation?
Was the destruction of flight 17 Western disinformation?

The only manipulation or brainwashing you get around the above, is from the Russians and their mouthpieces who deny, troll, lie, whatabouterise and obfuscate to the gullible.
 
Was the invasion of Crimea Western disinformation?
Was the invasion of Ukraine Western disinformation?
Was the assassination of Litvinenko Western disinformation?
Was the destruction of flight 17 Western disinformation?

The only manipulation or brainwashing you get around the above, is from the Russians and their mouthpieces who deny, troll, lie, whatterabouterise and obfuscate to the gullible.
I'm glad someone could be bothered to respond to that, well said.
 
Was the invasion of Crimea Western disinformation?

Yes, of course. The elected president of Ukraine was coup d'état'ed out of the country to regime-change and install an anti-Russian US puppet so NATO can continue to spam more military near Russian borders, with nationalists marching down the streets with torches and banners of Nazi criminals. A part of the population did not agree and held a referendum, not a whole lot different from the Catalans.

In a world where the Anglo-Saxons and their allies were Russia-friendly and not the opposite this would be exactly what you would believe now. Truth in politics is relative.
 
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Was the invasion of Crimea Western disinformation?
Was the invasion of Ukraine Western disinformation?
Was the assassination of Litvinenko Western disinformation?
Was the destruction of flight 17 Western disinformation?

The only manipulation or brainwashing you get around the above, is from the Russians and their mouthpieces who deny, troll, lie, whatabouterise and obfuscate to the gullible.

Nice list. Disinformation isn't just telling lies. It's telling halfthruths.

Like mentioning flight 17 as if it's been proven in a court of law who was responsible. Talking about Crimea events and fail to mention what it represents, the history behind it and how it's connected to the US sponsored coup in Kiev. And so on and so forth.

That is not to say that Putin or Russia aren't guilty of some of the things they get accused of. Just not all of them, and they're far from the worst, if we start counting sins. It's just a matter of who's doing the counting, that's all.
 
Yes, of course. The elected president of Ukraine was coup d'état'ed out of the country by nationalists marching down the streets with torches and banners of Nazi criminals. A part of the population did not agree and held a referendum, not a whole lot different from the Catalans.

In a world where the Anglo-Saxons and their allies were Russia-friendly and not the opposite this would be exactly what you would believe now. Truth in politics is relative.

Not accurate. The so called referendum was ginned up by Putin in order to flog the facade that it was a locally organized will of the people. It was merely a fabricated sham whose outcome was determined before a single Russian boot was on Ukrainian soil.
 
Nice list. Disinformation isn't just telling lies. It's telling halfthruths.

Like mentioning flight 17 as if it's been proven in a court of law who was responsible. Talking about Crimea events and fail to mention what it represents, the history behind it and how it's connected to the US sponsored coup in Kiev. And so on and so forth.

That is not to say that Putin or Russia aren't guilty of some of the things they get accused of. Just not all of them, and they're far from the worst, if we start counting sins. It's just a matter of who's doing the counting, that's all.

This isn't even in doubt, much as the Litvinenko and Skripal poisonings aren't in doubt.
 
Not accurate. The so called referendum was ginned up by Putin in order to flog the facade that it was a locally organized will of the people. It was merely a fabricated sham whose outcome was determined before a single Russian boot was on Ukrainian soil.

Catalan independence is also the "local will" of people, without a clear absolute majority even, but no one cares.

Putin suggested to repeat the referendum if the West wants it but of course the West wouldn't react as it is foreseeable that the absolute majority of Crimea people is by far in favour of a reintegration into Russia and it will be hard to explain why one case is sold as secession, "will of the people" and all that (Catalunya) and the other is invasion/annexion.
 
Catalan independence is also the "local will" of people, without a clear absolute majority even, but no one cares.

Putin suggested to repeat the referendum if the West wants it but of course the West wouldn't react as it is foreseeable that the absolute majority of Crimea people is by far in favour of a reintegration into Russia and it will be hard to explain why one case is sold as secession, "will of the people" and all that (Catalunya) and the other is invasion/annexion.

You can't repeat a sham and expect different results. It would be like Putin saying "I've been reelected for another term, but for those who have concerns, we can organize a 2nd election next week to see if the people still want me to serve".
 
It may be a sham for you but the German Parliament founded the independent "Centre for East European and International Studies" which did some in-depth surveys in Crimea in 2017 and 80 % said they are still in favour of secession. Here is the report in English language:

https://www.zois-berlin.de/fileadmin/media/Dateien/ZOiS_Reports/ZOiS_Report_3_2017.pdf

000f5b806521033.jpg
 
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It may be a sham for you but the German Parliament founded the independent "Centre for East European and International Studies" which did some in-depth surveys in Crimea in 2017 and 80 % said they are still in favour of secession. Here is the report in English language: https://www.zois-berlin.de/fileadmin/media/Dateien/ZOiS_Reports/ZOiS_Report_3_2017.pdf

000f5b806521033.jpg

There are no doubt a lot of people in Crimea who identify more with Russia. I was there a few years back and experienced this myself. That doesn’t however mean a neighboring country launching a manipulative military operation to impose a referendum onto the population where the end result was fixed before voting took place, for the sole purpose of intimidating Ukraine. If there was a desire for a referendum they should’ve done it organically without any Russian coercion, or by way of Russian troops seizing the parliament and installing their own stooge while the so called referendum was being organized at gun point.
 
If Russia did not intervene at all you would have seen scenes worse than in Catalunya a few months ago where Police was beating the shit out of women and grandpas to prevent them from voting. You think the ultra nationalistic mob chasing the president out of the country with dozens of people being killed on the streets will allow a secession vote?

A textbook democratic procedure will never happen in these matters in those countries.
 
That is not to say that Putin or Russia aren't guilty of some of the things they get accused of.

C'mon then. Let's have some specifics. Some bad ones too, after all if everyone is as equally bad as you say, Putin should have some right nasties that you are happy to admit to. Go on, make him look bad... if you dare.
 
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If Russia did not intervene at all you would have seen scenes worse than in Catalunya a few months ago where Police was beating the shit out of women and grandpas to prevent them from voting. You think the ultra nationalistic mob chasing the president out of the country with dozens of people being killed on the streets will allow a secession vote?

A textbook democratic procedure will never happen in these matters in those countries.

If they didn’t intervene, the process would’ve played out organically, with Crimeans themselves organizing a referendum, the results of which would be broadly recognized internationally - as opposed to the widely laughed at referendum at gun point that Putin ginned up to mimic his own sham elections in Russia.
 
What theories? The guilty party was appointed before the actual crime was committed.

But seriously, there could be a number of possibilities. My guess is, it has something to do with the competition over the European energy market and Americans trying to squeeze Russians out and take over by any means necessary. I'd imagine there'll be more scandals associated with Russia in the next few years with the White House and their loyal allies in the UK and a few other places demanding Europe cut the economical and political ties with Russia even further.

Here's more about it.

https://www.ft.com/content/352f4cac-6c7a-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0

Sadly I can't read that. But I assume it is a series of evidential connections between the attempted murder of Skripal and competition over the European energy market... yes?

Because if it's not, then I will be justified in claiming you are making stuff up.
 
Oh I'm sure in your head it was never in doubt. But just because you want to believe something, doesn't make it true.

Just to make sure you're on record about this - Do you deny that the Russian government were responsible for the MH17 shoot down, and the Litvinenko and Skripal poisonings ?
 
Just to make sure you're on record about this - Do you deny that the Russian government were responsible for the MH17 shoot down, and the Litvinenko and Skripal poisonings ?

Do I need to take an oath? Am I under indictment? Can or will anything I say be used against me in a court of law? May I call my attorney first, your honor?

You're quite amusing at times. Just to calm you down, I'd say I'm 50-50 on Litvinenko and 99.9 % sure on Skripal that Putin/Russian government/intelligence weren't involved. Doesn't mean there couldn't have been some Russians involved, but I doubt they're connected to Kremlin. Just like every American isn't connected to White House. As far as MH17 shooting down, are you suggesting that the Russian government actually ordered to shoot down a passenger plane?
 
If they didn’t intervene, the process would’ve played out organically, with Crimeans themselves organizing a referendum, the results of which would be broadly recognized internationally - as opposed to the widely laughed at referendum at gun point that Putin ginned up to mimic his own sham elections in Russia.

Do you realize there was a number of referendums in Crimea since 1991? About independence, about the status of Russian language, etc? You know what happened to all that? Ukrainian government time and again wiped their asses with it. So before you start talking about something, research the subject. Here's a little Russian to English Google translation of the history of Crimean referendums prior to 2014 events.

The first referendum on the territory of the Crimea (the first referendum in the history of the USSR) was held on January 20, 1991. The decision to hold it was taken on November 12, 1990 at an extraordinary session of the Crimean regional Council of People's Deputies. The question was put to the vote: "Are you for the re-establishment of the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic as a subject of the USSR and a participant in the Union Treaty?" The right to vote was 1.777.841 million Crimeans. The referendum was attended by 1.441 million people (81.3%), including residents of Sevastopol. Positive response was 1.343.855 million people (93.26%). Most of the Crimean Tatars boycotted the vote. However, on February 12, the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR adopted a law on the restoration of the Crimean ASSR within the Ukrainian SSR. Four months later, relevant changes were made to the constitution of the USSR in 1978, and the Crimean region was transformed into the Crimean ASSR.
May 5, 1992 at the session of the Crimean Parliament adopted an act on the state independence of the Republic of Crimea, which was to enter into force after confirmation of its general referendum, scheduled for August 2. Its participants had to answer two questions: "Are you for an independent Crimea in alliance with other states?" and "Do you confirm the act on the state independence of the Republic of Crimea?". On May 13, the Supreme Council of Ukraine recognized the decisions of the Crimean Parliament on the proclamation of an act on state independence and holding a referendum as contradicting the constitution of Ukraine and suspended their action. On July 9, the Supreme Council of Crimea announced a moratorium on its own decision to hold a referendum.
In March 1995, by the decision of the Verkhovna Rada and the President of Ukraine, the constitution of the Republic of Crimea was abolished, the post of president was abolished. On April 25, the Supreme Council of Crimea decided to hold a general referendum on June 25. The Crimean people were asked to answer the following questions: 1. Do you approve the Constitution of the Republic of Crimea, canceled unilaterally by the Supreme Council of Ukraine on March 17, 1995. 2. Do you support the Law of Ukraine "On the Autonomous Republic of Crimea" of March 17, 1995? ". However, on May 31, the Crimean Parliament abolished its decision on the referendum, agreeing with the proposal of the Supreme Council of Ukraine to adopt the constitution of the autonomous republic on the basis of the law of Ukraine "On the delineation of powers between Ukraine and the Crimea."
In 1998, the agenda of the session of the Supreme Council of Crimea included questions on holding a referendum, including on the issue of granting the Russian language the status of the state language, as well as on lifting the moratorium on referendums on the status of the Crimea. However, the deputies did not agree on holding a referendum.
On February 22, 2006, the Supreme Council of Crimea once again made an attempt to hold a national referendum on the status of the Russian language on March 26. The initiative belonged to the Party of Regions Viktor Yanukovych. The Ukrainian Central Election Commission prohibited district election commissions in the Crimea to vote on this issue.
On December 16, 2006, Crimeans in an unofficial popular referendum voted against the political course of Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko for joining NATO. The Crimean authorities refused to provide premises for voting, and the organizers - the All-Crimean People's Assembly - held a referendum on the streets. 98.7% of the nearly 900,000 citizens voted against Ukraine's membership in the North Atlantic Alliance. The referendum was dismised as illegal.
 
Do you realize there was a number of referendums in Crimea since 1991? About independence, about the status of Russian language, etc? You know what happened to all that? Ukrainian government time and again wiped their asses with it. So before you start talking about something, research the subject. Here's a little Russian to English Google translation of the history of Crimean referendums prior to 2014 events.

The first referendum on the territory of the Crimea (the first referendum in the history of the USSR) was held on January 20, 1991. The decision to hold it was taken on November 12, 1990 at an extraordinary session of the Crimean regional Council of People's Deputies. The question was put to the vote: "Are you for the re-establishment of the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic as a subject of the USSR and a participant in the Union Treaty?" The right to vote was 1.777.841 million Crimeans. The referendum was attended by 1.441 million people (81.3%), including residents of Sevastopol. Positive response was 1.343.855 million people (93.26%). Most of the Crimean Tatars boycotted the vote. However, on February 12, the Supreme Soviet of the Ukrainian SSR adopted a law on the restoration of the Crimean ASSR within the Ukrainian SSR. Four months later, relevant changes were made to the constitution of the USSR in 1978, and the Crimean region was transformed into the Crimean ASSR.
May 5, 1992 at the session of the Crimean Parliament adopted an act on the state independence of the Republic of Crimea, which was to enter into force after confirmation of its general referendum, scheduled for August 2. Its participants had to answer two questions: "Are you for an independent Crimea in alliance with other states?" and "Do you confirm the act on the state independence of the Republic of Crimea?". On May 13, the Supreme Council of Ukraine recognized the decisions of the Crimean Parliament on the proclamation of an act on state independence and holding a referendum as contradicting the constitution of Ukraine and suspended their action. On July 9, the Supreme Council of Crimea announced a moratorium on its own decision to hold a referendum.
In March 1995, by the decision of the Verkhovna Rada and the President of Ukraine, the constitution of the Republic of Crimea was abolished, the post of president was abolished. On April 25, the Supreme Council of Crimea decided to hold a general referendum on June 25. The Crimean people were asked to answer the following questions: 1. Do you approve the Constitution of the Republic of Crimea, canceled unilaterally by the Supreme Council of Ukraine on March 17, 1995. 2. Do you support the Law of Ukraine "On the Autonomous Republic of Crimea" of March 17, 1995? ". However, on May 31, the Crimean Parliament abolished its decision on the referendum, agreeing with the proposal of the Supreme Council of Ukraine to adopt the constitution of the autonomous republic on the basis of the law of Ukraine "On the delineation of powers between Ukraine and the Crimea."
In 1998, the agenda of the session of the Supreme Council of Crimea included questions on holding a referendum, including on the issue of granting the Russian language the status of the state language, as well as on lifting the moratorium on referendums on the status of the Crimea. However, the deputies did not agree on holding a referendum.
On February 22, 2006, the Supreme Council of Crimea once again made an attempt to hold a national referendum on the status of the Russian language on March 26. The initiative belonged to the Party of Regions Viktor Yanukovych. The Ukrainian Central Election Commission prohibited district election commissions in the Crimea to vote on this issue.
On December 16, 2006, Crimeans in an unofficial popular referendum voted against the political course of Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko for joining NATO. The Crimean authorities refused to provide premises for voting, and the organizers - the All-Crimean People's Assembly - held a referendum on the streets. 98.7% of the nearly 900,000 citizens voted against Ukraine's membership in the North Atlantic Alliance. The referendum was dismised as illegal.

Its still a matter for Crimeans to decide within Ukrainian laws. Just because their desired end state wasn't adopted by the Ukrainian government isn't some sort of magical green light for Putin to invade and help himself to the land of a neighboring country. It would be a bit like Poland attempting to foment chaos in western Ukraine to claim Lviv.
 


Those tweets don't provide the full context of the statement:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...s-unable-to-verify-precise-source-of-novichok

Speaking to Sky News, Aitkenhead said: “We were able to identify it as novichok, to identify that it was military-grade nerve agent.

“We have not identified the precise source, but we have provided the scientific info to government who have then used a number of other sources.”

He explained that establishing its origin required “other inputs”, some of them intelligence-based, that the government has access to.

Aitkenhead added: “It is our job to provide the scientific evidence of what this particular nerve agent is. We identified that it is from this particular family and that it is a military grade, but it is not our job to say where it was manufactured.”

Edit - and yes, Boris does need to clarify given the quotes you posted above.
 
Hang on, if it was a false flag... could it have been the Americans??
 
A retired Russian lieutenant general has also warned of a doomsday scenario and suggested the situation could escalate into the "last war in the history of mankind".

Evgeny Buzhinsky, who leads security think tank the PIR Center, told the BBC's Today programme he was "afraid that it will end up in a very, very bad outcome".

Asked to clarify, he said: "A real war, worse than a cold war is a real war, it will be the last war in the history of mankind."
Read as:

Oi UK! Who do you think you’re talking to eh? Carry on like that to me and I’ll smash yer head in. Yer won’t know what ‘it yer when I’ve finished with yer. Get that!

Typical Russia, bully boys threatening someone smaller.
 
Its still a matter for Crimeans to decide within Ukrainian laws. Just because their desired end state wasn't adopted by the Ukrainian government isn't some sort of magical green light for Putin to invade and help himself to the land of a neighboring country. It would be a bit like Poland attempting to foment chaos in western Ukraine to claim Lviv.

You mean like it was a matter for Kosovars to decide within the Serbian laws back in 2008? Are you willing to go on record on that?