Bit more explanation in this article.
Russia's at it again
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Its fairly normal for the Mafia State to deny their involvement in murdering journalists and shooting down civilian airliners.
They had sponsored a $40k hit job on Babchenko using Ukrainian citizens to carry it out, so this would be in line with attempting to assassinate people who attempt to tell the truth about Putin's criminal activities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...tin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/
Geraschenko is a well-known clown. He routinely pops up with the usual "It was done by Kremlin" routine whenever something bad happens in Ukraine.
Is this the world's first sting of that kind? I mean of the 'Even the wife thinks he is dead' kind.
Ukraine is currently a failed state, the poorest country in Europe, crime ridden and ravaged by corruption and poverty. It's also filled with illegal weapons, brought from the Donbass region. Forget $40k, you can easily find ready and willing candidates for 'wet work' for much less than that, no matter who the target is. Then you just apprehend the people hired for the job and present for the world as Kremlin agents. Doesn't matter that they're Ukrainians and have nothing to do with Russia/Kremlin/FSB/Putin, it's all about making as much noise and pointing fingers in the familiar direction.
Sounds like it was pulled off fairly meticulously to where no one was involved. Its rare that its done in such a public way in order to allow the subsequent reaction to organically unfold as part of the plan to apprehend the suspects.
Never mind that. Have you replied to @nickm yet or did you miss it with all the excitement.
I'm a bit slow right now so can someone please explain this to me?
If the killing was staged, how could the real killers be convinced he was killed? There are no real killers.
I'm guessing the operation involved the assailants actually trying to kill him and then convincing them he was actually dead, so that their reaction and follow on communications would lead to evidence that they were behind it by way of a contract with the Russians.
Maybe he wore a bullet proof vest with blood bags. They shot him, he bled, was found by his wife and taken away by ambulance. (I think he ‘died’ in the ambulance). Everyone announces he’s dead and assailants ask whoever hired them for the payout for the job. They and their ‘employer’ are now caught.
Just a guess like...
Thanks. So kind of an entrapment operation...makes sense. Hope the evidence is irrefutable but our friends would still deny.
I am just asking for your definition of ‘prank’ as the typical definition of a prank is a trick or a practical joke that is intended to be humorous and not be harmful. While such an undercover operation in which the journalist participated could be classified as tricky, it certainly wasn’t humorous and was undertaken out of a concern for harm towards him. In other words, describing the sting as a prank was completely incorrect and another poor attempt by you in trying to obfuscate from the real issue at hand.
That’s why I asked you for your understanding of the definition of a prank, perhaps you were just ignorant to the true meaning of the word. Instead you were just peddling your lunacy again.
Are those assailants from the same group that earlier tried and failed to murder two people in Salisbury with one of the world's most toxic nerve agents? What were they trying to kill the target with this time, water pistols?
This is not the first time Ukrainian intelligence comes out with some outrageous claims that they later cannot back up with facts. That's why I called it a prank, they're acting like a bunch of clowns, you cannot take them seriously. Then again, the country's top statesmen aren't much better, as I demonstrated with the links above. By the way, at the time when they announсed to the world that the journo was killed, German president Frank-Walter Steinmeier was visiting the country, so he mentioned in his speech how shocked and saddened by that "news". I wonder how silly he feels at the moment. The whole thing is just absurd.
It is absolutely amazing that, in your opinion, that Russia can do no wrong. There has been no information on the result of the sting, but you immediately discount the validity of it or Russia’s involvement in it.
I can understand patriotism and I certainly have it for my country, but I am also very critical of my country and apply blame to it as needed. It must be amazing, though, to come from a country as pristine, blameless, and consistently innocent as Russia, not to mention always being the recipient of so much consistently fake news.
No, it was Salisbury where they used water pistols but they couldn’t fully unblock the nozzle. They tried again once they got back to Russia. Sadly for them poking the needle into the nozzle worked and the nerve agent suddenly spurted out freely.
I mean, I can’t stand the bumbling idiot, but he’s absolutely right about everything other than him being dead... because luckily the hit men were out manoeuvred.
It’s identical to what is going on in America right now with Trump and the Republicans. They drum up patriotism and create a load of emotive narratives so people like antihenry will feel like he has to fight to protect his countries name which gives them the perfect cover to continue to rob the country and its people blind with little arguments.
100%. Two peas in a pod.
Show where I said that Russia can do no wrong. The reason I defend Russia/Putin here is to give the argument any sort of balance. The amount of Russia bashing on this forum is tremendous, some of it justified, but quite a lot is just plain hysteria.
On a number of occasions here I mentioned that I'm no fan of Putin for many reasons, wish the country was ruled by a more progressive president, never voted for him and never will, but at the same time I was time and again trying to explain why he has such a stellar support among Russians, and only a fraction of it is down to propaganda. All this falls on deaf ears around here. Some people are just indoctrnated to see anything out of Russia as something negative, not realizing that they are just as much are victims of their own propaganda. It's come to a point that they'll believe anything, as long as it makes Kremlin look evil, no matter how preposterous it looks or sounds.
I'm not laughing at him per se, but rather at the whole absurdity of it.
Boris’s reaction is less absurd than what his wife’s reaction would have been. Can you imagine what she would have done when she found out? It wouldn’t have been a tweet. She will have called family and friends, no doubt broken down in tears. I can’t imagine it very nice.
So why put her through all that and wait for 3 days?
Thinking laterally, as it was a sting operation on an anticipated hit, they didn’t want to just catch the monkeys, they wanted to catch the organ grinders too. So why go to all this trouble? They clearly knew who was carrying out the hit so they could have caught them red handed or shortly afterwards without the drama. My guess is that they were surveiling the thugs afterwards with the intention of collecting intelligence. The monkeys reporting back to the organ grinders that the hit was a success and then get some SIGNIT of the organ grinders reporting back to base.
Was 19 hours according to the news. His wife would have been told the truth before the rest of us.
On the positive side it was only a few hours. If the original plot had succeeded his death would have been forever.
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So according to German media this russian journalist (Arkadi Babtschenko) is alive. They're saying it was a ruse by the Ukrainian authorities to uncover other Russian plots.
Edit: English source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/world/europe/arkady-babchenko-russian-journalist-not-killed.html
Edit: English source: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/world/europe/arkady-babchenko-russian-journalist-not-killed.html
No shit?
Hmm appears i'm a bit late
. Quality source though!No conclusive evidence Russia behind MH17 downing: Malaysia transport minister.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...-russia-behind-mh17-downing-malaysia-10290266
I'm guessing he had a fun filled night in Moscow as well.
Haven’t seen any instance of your being critical of Putin, might exist on another thread, not arsed enough to go searching throughout the site.
No worries, though. I can totally appreciate trying to add balance for perspective (it’s enlightening and entertaining reading the articles to which you link), but the obfuscation and the employing of non sequiturs gets a bit laughable.
He’s been in the job for 10 days and added "Of course we have to take into consideration diplomatic relations”.
So yeah, I suggest we stick with what the investigators are saying, rather than the politicians.
He consistently says he doesn't particularly like or endorse Putin, but when push comes to shove he relentlessly defends him and only falls back on criticism when actually called out on what he thinks of Putin. It's all well and good to have balance but difficult to take it seriously when the person in question will depend one party to the hilt on everything.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...-russia-behind-mh17-downing-malaysia-10290266
I suppose it is conceivable that Russia lost control of it’s BUK missiles and allowed them to get into the hands of others, but we all fail to keep things safe at some point in our lives and they shouldn’t feel embarrassed or ashamed to admit their fail8ngs just once in a while. Admitting negligence would be a much greater display of character strength than say mounting a grizzly bare-chested.
I suppose it is conceivable that Russia lost control of it’s BUK missiles and allowed them to get into the hands of others, but we all fail to keep things safe at some point in our lives and they shouldn’t feel embarrassed or ashamed to admit their fail8ngs just once in a while. Admitting negligence would be a much greater display of character strength than say mounting a grizzly bare-chested.
Yes, everyone who doesn't say what you want to believe has been bought by the evil KGB.
Even admitting negligence would make them directly responsible for the incident. It's all about political gains and losses. I have a gut feeling Russians are at fault over the Boeing downing. No one in their right mind would do it on purpose, of course, given the consequences, but I guess something went terribly wrong on that particular day. Most likely scenario is, the separaists got the Buk from Russians, then on the basis of the wrong intel assumed that the Boeing was a Ukrainian military plane so they went ahead and shot it down. After that, it just became a game of pointing fingers.
Why the airspace over the warzone wasn't closed for commercial traffic is another question. Separatists had downed a Ukrainian military plane prior to that so there was a legitimate reason to close down the space over the territory for passenger planes. Why that hasn't been done remains to be answered but that's Ukraine's responsibility, so once again it becomes a political issue and it stands in a way of the real objective investigation.
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Politicics has been part of it since the moment the incident took place. Like western politicians blaming Russia hours (!) after it happened. Like making Ukraine a party to the investigation, while excluding Russia. To me, if there's a military conflict between two sides (Ukraine and pro-Russian separatists) and something like that tragedy happens in the midst of it, you can't include either side in the investigative process, you can only request/demand their assistance in investigation, otherwise your objectivity should be called into question. But from day one, it was obvious that the guilty party was already designated. It's as if two people get into a shootout, an innocent bystander gets killed by a stray bullet, police arrives on the scene and decides right away that one of the shooters will help them investigate the crime while the other is announced as a guilty party before the actual investigation even begins.
Also, the investigators based their findings on the information posted by an organization called Bellingcat, which is sub organization of Atlantic Council and gets funding from the US government. It acts like an unofficial NATO propagandist, obsessively focusing on Western enemies.
That doesn't mean Russians aren't at fault here, personally I believe they are. Unlike the Skripals case or that latest hoax from Ukraine involving the ressurection of a journalist, I do think the Boeing was downed by the Donbass separatists and since they're armed by Russia, the fault lies with Kremlin. It's a major feckup on their part and I doubt they'd ever accept the blame because they can't just admit to it and pay off the victims' families, the confession would lead to a whole other line of questioning regarding their military and intelligence support of Ukrainan separatists, etc. And of course in the atmosphere of the new cold war it'll be used by Russia's political enemies as a handy political weapon against them. Admitting it politically wouldn't help Putin regime whatsoever, since their adversaries don't need their confession in order to accuse them or punish them, through sanctions or some other way. Plus, ever since Soviet times Moscow always has had trouble confessing to some unsavoury deeds, it probably has something to do with the siege mentality complex and belief that admitting such things would make them look weak and will be used by their enemies.
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Russia warns Norway of ‘consequences’ after it invites in more US Marines
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ne-crimea-a8399601.html?utm_source=reddit.com
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ne-crimea-a8399601.html?utm_source=reddit.com
Russia just doesn’t seem to care about other countries’ borders, much less their sovereignty. Ratching up tension over 1000 Marines with apparently limited air support is ridiculous.
NATO ally too.