SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Rooney1987 said:
Maybe I'm giving people too much credit but I don't think most people will do that. Some will say feck it but what can they do if it's another lockdown. Pubs, restaurants, shops and cinemas all closed. They can't do anything. Some will try to break the rules by meeting up, having parties and some will protest but probably be small enough for police to handle.

I like the 2 week half term October plan. Make it clear it's only for 2 weeks not 4 months, business will get support and furlough will carry one another month. Majority will except imo.
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I guess I'm hinting that businesses will also ignore any lockdown notices, and Boris would probably just go "Oh well, we tried..." and let it happen. Because so far his policy has been so light touch that he can avoid taking blame for anything (or at least he's given himself enough room to slither out of trouble like the dirty cheating fat assed snake that he is).

I just can't see a couple of weeks being enough. Eventually we're going to go around in circles and when Sunak stops the funding there's going to be folk like that prat who owns Witherspoon's who will say "Get back to work or I'll sack you". And at that point a lot of people will have no choice but to leave their homes regardless of whether or not they're showing symptoms.

This really is a situation that has no good ending, isn't it?
 
Dan_F said:
Fair enough. You didn’t respond to anything in my post though. You just waffled on about stuff that is all very unlikely to happen to 99% of people.

This is my main issue with people who complain about restrictions being in place. You’re quite happy to be indoors with 6 other people, because you’re all healthy.

If you used common sense you’d realise that it isn’t good for that many people to be in contact with each other right now. Instead, you’d rather moan that the government is introducing stricter rules. This is happening because people aren’t adapting to what is needed to keep cases down.

Can you not see the issue?
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It entirely depends on which rule.

No pissup or massive gathering involving more than 6? Fine, if that's what needs to happen so be it, i take issue with shit like it being illegal to quickly say hi to a friend in passing just because he's in a group of 6. As for the Christmas example it should be case by case, if the rules still here on the 25th i'd begrudgingly suck it up and spend it at my cousin's instead but would i judge a family for stretching it slightly to avoid an awful decision? No, quite frankly!
 
Dancfc said:
It entirely depends on which rule.

No pissup or massive gathering involving more than 6? Fine, if that's what needs to happen so be it, i take issue with shit like it being illegal to quickly say hi to a friend in passing just because he's in a group of 6. As for the Christmas example it should be case by case, if the rules still here on the 25th i'd begrudgingly suck it up and spend it at my cousin's instead but would i judge a family for stretching it slightly to avoid an awful decision? No, quite frankly!
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If you pass a group of six and you stand two meters away to talk to them, do you think you’ll get arrested or something? Are you that paranoid?

I guess if you sit down and have a drink with them, someone might say something, or if you’re really unlucky a policeman might be nearby and they’ll tell you to move. If you refuse then it might escalate into a fine.
 
Rooney1987 said:
Maybe I'm giving people too much credit but I don't think most people will do that. Some will say feck it but what can they do if it's another lockdown. Pubs, restaurants, shops and cinemas all closed. They can't do anything. Some will try to break the rules by meeting up, having parties and some will protest but probably be small enough for police to handle.

I like the 2 week half term October plan. Make it clear it's only for 2 weeks not 4 months, business will get support and furlough will carry one another month. Majority will except imo.
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The problem with a short 2 week lockdown is that the week after and the week before as a general rule everyone will stretch their liberties to the maximum of what's allowed. That's what's been happening after the last lengthy lockdown which has almost certainly caused the current spike. People who would normally have a BBQ with 4-5 friends who would then drive home, had several BBQ's with lots of alcohol and a dozen friends who then spent the night. People who usually would have a couple of pints in a beer garden and walk home stayed in the beer garden all day and went inside the pub for a few more when it got chilly. Parents who would normally drop their kids at school and barely say a word to other parents were chatting at the school gates and then going back to Toby's mum's house for a cup of tea with all the other mums because they hadn't spoken in 6 months. People who might have sacrificed their summer holiday abroad absolutely needed one after the stress of the last 6 months (I certainly did).

A 2 week break would obviously be less of a collective relief but with no vaccine in sight is this what the new plan is? Every 8 weeks we have a 2 week lockdown; meaning people cram as much socialising in to the 8 week period as possible to make up for the inevitable lockdown that's on the horizon? Meaning every pub/cinema/gym/restaurant/kitchen is rammed and social distancing can't be followed. Likewise reducing pub opening hours just means more people crammed in to the same space over a shorter time.

This is before even considering that the affects of the last lockdown are still very much alive. My wife has one client accused of a crime in January that would garner a 30 month sentence if convicted (15 with good behaviour). His trial has been pushed back several times the latest of which is March. If convicted (assuming it goes ahead in March) he'll spend a few weeks in prison because 95% of his term would have been spent on remand. If he's found innocent he'll have had 14 months in the prime of his life taken away with no just cause.

She has another case where two children are being removed from their parents due to neglect. They should have been removed at the end of March and had an adoption placement lined up straight away. By the time they're removed next year (proceedings again delayed numerous times) due to the age of the oldest child essentially their options will be to split them up and adopt the youngest or put both into long term foster care. This is likely to ruin the lives of these children irreparably.

Another lockdown just as the court system is starting (painfully slowly) to hear cases in person again would be disastrous and life altering for many people. This is before talking about the impact across the nation in terms of mental health as well as many being in financial ruin.

This virus is going to be with us for a long, long time, a fact which has been obvious for more than 6 months. We need a long term strategy. We had one at the start: protect our hospitals from being overrun and put a protective blanket across the vulnerable; our populist politicians abandoned the former due to the public clamour for lockdown and abjectly failed at the latter.
 
finneh said:
This virus is going to be with us for a long, long time, a fact which has been obvious for more than 6 months. We need a long term strategy. We had one at the start: protect our hospitals from being overrun and put a protective blanket across the vulnerable; our populist politicians abandoned the former due to the public clamour for lockdown and abjectly failed at the latter.
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While I agree with most aspects of your post, UK never had a long term plan in place, Minus herd immunity which despite government denial was definetly floated around while Italy was getting ravaged.
I also don't agree that lockdown occured due to Public outcry, though if it was. Was it not the right call? UK did not do enough prior to lockdown to avoid a lockdown, the entire time it was slowly reacting rather than being proactive.

Perhaps if the government had an aggressive track and trace system in place, playing whackamole with high risk areas from the off. During Italys peak sweet feckall was done on UK's side.
After lockdown restrictions on air travel came into place. The UK have the most deaths in Europe, one of the worst in the world by capita despite being a fecking island.

The fecking 'World beating app is out next week?'
Which then brings you to the lovely Tory corruption of giving contracts to companies with no assets and connections to torys. PPE, app yada yada.

Public deserve a bollocking but this government are completely and utterly guilty of fecking this up. To slow to act despite China providing adequate evidence of the dangers of this virus, someone builds 12 hospitals in a fecking week in one region and basically imprisons residents in apartment blocks you fecking pay attention and do something. Italy get ravaged still do feckall..
 
Stactix said:
While I agree with most aspects of your post, UK never had a long term plan in place, Minus herd immunity which despite government denial was definetly floated around while Italy was getting ravaged.
I also don't agree that lockdown occured due to Public outcry, though if it was. Was it not the right call? UK did not do enough prior to lockdown to avoid a lockdown, the entire time it was slowly reacting rather than being proactive.

Perhaps if the government had an aggressive track and trace system in place, playing whackamole with high risk areas from the off. During Italys peak sweet feckall was done on UK's side.
After lockdown restrictions on air travel came into place. The UK have the most deaths in Europe, one of the worst in the world by capita despite being a fecking island.

The fecking 'World beating app is out next week?'
Which then brings you to the lovely Tory corruption of giving contracts to companies with no assets and connections to torys. PPE, app yada yada.

Public deserve a bollocking but this government are completely and utterly guilty of fecking this up. To slow to act despite China providing adequate evidence of the dangers of this virus, someone builds 12 hospitals in a fecking week in one region and basically imprisons residents in apartment blocks you fecking pay attention and do something. Italy get ravaged still do feckall..
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I totally agree the government response has been inadequate and incompetent at every stage. Unfortunately Boris rules by popular polling as he has no real ideas or strategy of his own. That's why we've seen several U turns in as many months in terms of lockdown, herd immunity, schools opening, school results, face masks, evictions, free school meals, NHS surcharge etcetc.

Guiding a country through a pandemic by tracking polling figures and implementing what is popular at any given moment is a dereliction of duty.

I'm not blaming the public whatsoever; before and after a lockdown it's obvious they would clamour to socialise as much as possible. A politicians job is to use that obvious social science and develop policy around it.
 
I tested negative for COVID. Text came through this morning. I’m not sure what it is. Probably just some other viral thing or whatever. But thanks for the kind messages again.
 
Unfortunately us Brits are arrogant twats in general and the only way to get compliance to rules is enforcement . As a 54year old I find social distancing easy but a 20 year old me would have had to be enforced .
The movement of people from all corners of the country is a huge problem, the day out on the beach or up Snowdon. It is not the time on the beach or wherever you are outside but the stopping for food, petrol,toilets on the way with no system of testing or track and trace.
 
Met a girl from Leeds here in Poland last night.

She couldn't believe how open and normal everyday life is here, all bars and night clubs are open 2019 style. It was like seeing a kid in the candy shop at Christmas ... beautiful social observation ;)
 
Hanks said:
Met a girl from Leeds here in Poland last night.

She couldn't believe how open and normal everyday life is here, all bars and night clubs are open 2019 style. It was like seeing a kid in the candy shop at Christmas ... beautiful social observation ;)
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Did you.......?
 
Smores said:
Probably already been shared but an interesting thread

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Some interesting patterns and analysis there. How accurate/plausible their proposals are I don't know, but I do think easier/simpler/gentler actions now are preferable to lockdowns/circuit breakers in a month's time. Rinse and repeat.
 
In most parts of the world there still seems to be broad support for putting in place restrictions when cases surge, however younger people are starting to chaff against it. The recent NZ outbreak had around 50% of cases aged below 30. Many people of that age aren't really concerned about the risk.

This is where it all breaks down, nowhere do the police have the ability to enforce this without overwhelming public support, if 10% people people decide to flout it, it's over.
 
djembatheking said:
Unfortunately us Brits are arrogant twats in general and the only way to get compliance to rules is enforcement . As a 54year old I find social distancing easy but a 20 year old me would have had to be enforced .
The movement of people from all corners of the country is a huge problem, the day out on the beach or up Snowdon. It is not the time on the beach or wherever you are outside but the stopping for food, petrol,toilets on the way with no system of testing or track and trace.
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It isn't just the Brits - https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart...lative=0&logScale=0&perMillion=1&values=cases

Spain, France, Ireland, Czech Republic, Netherlands, Denmark, Austria, Portugal, Hungary, Malta, Slovenia etc
 
foolsgold said:
In most parts of the world there still seems to be broad support for putting in place restrictions when cases surge, however younger people are starting to chaff against it. The recent NZ outbreak had around 50% of cases aged below 30. Many people of that age aren't really concerned about the risk.

This is where it all breaks down, nowhere do the police have the ability to enforce this without overwhelming public support, if 10% people people decide to flout it, it's over.
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The 50% of young people being in the recent outbreak we had here in NZ were a function of large families and a church connection. A decent number of them were under 15. It had nothing to do with young people being "irresponsible" or anything like that. It was a function of a true community based outbreak that didnt start at a bar or nightclub or any sort of recreational gathering. It was family based and connected. Large families. We had 2 deaths in this recent outbreak, the deceased were brothers.
 
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MaxiPaxi said:
I tested negative for COVID. Text came through this morning. I’m not sure what it is. Probably just some other viral thing or whatever. But thanks for the kind messages again.
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That’s good I guess?! My mrs just tested negative as she was selected for one of those antibody tests. It looks like the blood version of a pregnancy test.
they can’t be massively accurate because if they were, surely this is the best test to send to people - it shows whether you have it now and whether you did previously and gives a result in 10 mins.
I do feel bad that she tested negative for antibodies but I was pretty sure neither of us have had it anyway.
 
Hanks said:
Met a girl from Leeds here in Poland last night.

She couldn't believe how open and normal everyday life is here, all bars and night clubs are open 2019 style. It was like seeing a kid in the candy shop at Christmas ... beautiful social observation ;)
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I hope you socially distanced.. soMe things are worse than catching Covid, like listening to a dirty Leeds fan
 
giggs-beckham said:
Why haven't we already gone back to the limited capacity in shops thing with queuing again?
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Face coverings should, in theory, negate the need to manage capacity in stores. Some are doing it still (the ones I run certainly are still, due to the longer than normal dwell time we experience).
 
Lynty said:
Loads better. Treating for viral induced asthma and a suspected UTI. On a drip through the night as she was dehydrated. They just want to ensure she can last 4 hours between inhalers before discharge.

I've insisted on a covid test, as I'm front line NHS and won't be able to return to work for 14 days if she can't get a test. They told me that they can't do one, and have been given two different reasons why: don't have test available and she doesn't meet their criteria to be tested (inpatient criteria is currently different to the "get tested if you have a cough, high temp or loss of taste" message that we are receiving)

My wife is now bed ridden with the same symptoms, and we still can't get a test for her either.

Second child is back to normal, I have a sore throat but otherwise feel OK. So I really don't know. Possibly another seasonal virus that has triggered similar symptoms - but on a selfish pov, being unsure doesn't do me or my work any good.
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Good to hear she's on the mend.
 
gormless said:
Not sure if that’s good news or bad (might be good to have developed some antibodies), but hope you’re feeling better
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I suspect that I may have already had it in March where I was really poorly for 2 weeks straight. Shortness of breath, bad cough, temperature etc.
 
Adamsk7 said:
That’s good I guess?! My mrs just tested negative as she was selected for one of those antibody tests. It looks like the blood version of a pregnancy test.
they can’t be massively accurate because if they were, surely this is the best test to send to people - it shows whether you have it now and whether you did previously and gives a result in 10 mins.
I do feel bad that she tested negative for antibodies but I was pretty sure neither of us have had it anyway.
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Yeah it’s good news I think.
I’m still feeling a bit off but much better than yesterday. Any idea when they’ll roll out antibodies test for the general public?
 
MaxiPaxi said:
Yeah it’s good news I think.
I’m still feeling a bit off but much better than yesterday. Any idea when they’ll roll out antibodies test for the general public?
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No idea. My partner has been tracking her wellness using the Imperial College app since March so I’m guessing they saw her as an ideal candidate - I have a feeling they are sending them out to people that have tracked zero symptoms to see how many may have been asymptomatic.
 
Adamsk7 said:
That’s good I guess?! My mrs just tested negative as she was selected for one of those antibody tests. It looks like the blood version of a pregnancy test.
they can’t be massively accurate because if they were, surely this is the best test to send to people - it shows whether you have it now and whether you did previously and gives a result in 10 mins.
I do feel bad that she tested negative for antibodies but I was pretty sure neither of us have had it anyway.
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I was selected for one of them tests and it stated they are not 100% accurate which seems a bit pointless to be honest.
 
Adamsk7 said:
No idea. My partner has been tracking her wellness using the Imperial College app since March so I’m guessing they saw her as an ideal candidate - I have a feeling they are sending them out to people that have tracked zero symptoms to see how many may have been asymptomatic.
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Ah right fair enough. That would make sense to be honest.
 
What's to stop the UK government from literally writing the debt off? They have the power to 'print money' essentially don't they?
 
acnumber9 said:
You’re these useless cnuts in Governments dream.
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Glad I'm in someone's dream!
Do I detect some political bias in your response?


djembatheking said:
Sorry mate, I misunderstood you , I agree . It is going to get worse very quickly though if cases are rising and there are no tests available.
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Yes, the Government is ''behind the curve', however constant carping from political opposition and the media doesn't help.
For me its still a tale of common sense , we know the risks, we know what to do...crack on!

Fluctuation0161 said:
OK Mr Rees-Mogg. :) We'll ignore the fact that testing is known to be the key element to control the virus. And ignore that testing capacity hasn't increased for 10 weeks, despite the return to school being well known about.
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Wish I had Rees-Moggs money! :rolleyes:
Testing is the key, agreed, so why are those who don't have symptoms clogging up the system... ? Its like the 'bog-roll buying madness' all over again!
 
Maticmaker said:
Glad I'm in someone's dream!
Do I detect some political bias in your response?




Yes, the Government is ''behind the curve', however constant carping from political opposition and the media doesn't help.
For me its still a tale of common sense , we know the risks, we know what to do...crack on!



Wish I had Rees-Moggs money! :rolleyes:
Testing is the key, agreed, so why are those who don't have symptoms clogging up the system... ? Its like the 'bog-roll buying madness' all over again!
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Am I biased against the Conservative party? Absofeckinglutely.
 
Berbaclass said:
What's to stop the UK government from literally writing the debt off? They have the power to 'print money' essentially don't they?
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If you write off debt then you become unable to raise new debt the second after that. See Argentina. If you print money you cause price inflation and devalue your currency (both effects are interlinked). A devalued currency is very very bad for a country that imports its food.
 
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